Ben, many of the things you describe have impacted PG for decades, so one would expect to see a fairly consistent level of crime if those were the only drivers for crime.

The one thing that you don’t specifically mention is the fairly recent evolution of gang culture in PG. Some of that activity would be linked to the factors you described and some wouldn’t. I would expect that the amount of higher level “organized crime” has also significantly increased in PG over the last decade an that would certainly have trickle down effects. The people involved in this type of crime are likely not the people you talk about in your article.

So yeah, while I think you raise some points to consider, I also think you missed a big one that could be a key driver for the fairly recent spikes in crime that PG has seen.

I think it is worthwhile to see how other communities which are high on the list are dealing with that by looking at what local reporters are writing.

Here is Thunder Bay, a city which ranked the highest in Ontario in last year’s (2009 stats) McLeans report and was second highest in Canada for homicides after Abbotsford, which was first then.

This year (based on 2010 stats) Thunder Bay is Ontario’s most dangerous city.

http://netnewsledger.com/2011/12/15/thunder-bay-ontarios-most-dangerous-city-macleans-magazine-survey-says-yes

From this year’s article:

“Gang wars, drug abuse and an alleged serial killer guaranteed Prince George, B.C., the top spot on Maclean’s fourth annual crime ranking of Canada’s 100 largest cities.

“…. the most populous cities in Ontario and Quebec consistently score well. Toronto’s overall crime score ranking is No. 52, exactly where it was in 2000. However, on the East Coast, St. John’s, Nfld., is finding its new prosperity carries a dark side—a rising crime score.

“The brightest spot in terms of reducing crime in a major city is Vancouver. Macleans states, “It has gone in the span of a decade from having some of the worst violent and non-violent crime scores in Canada to become one of its most improved. Its overall crime score plunged 49 per cent in 10 years, more than twice the rate of improvement of the country as a whole.”

“Perhaps some of the innovative and progressive efforts in Vancouver have helped. The Vancouver Police Department has taken a far greater approach at engaging the public online, including social media, Youtube and Twitter.”

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Now here comes the really interesting part
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“Macleans writes, “Property crime, much of it fuelled by addiction, has been a plague in Vancouver. Surveilling chronic offenders and gathering evidence of “the full nature of their offences” to present to judges is the ?rst step to gaining longer sentences.

“The next move is more social worker than beat cop. Detectives visit offenders in jail and discuss the needs for their release, whether it be detox, housing or other social support to stop their cycle of crime.

“We’ve got some very creative, compassionate detectives who build up a rapport with these guys. I’ve gotten emails and letters saying, ‘Hey chief, detective so-and-so was just great with me. First guy that cared about me in years. I’m doing better now because of what he did for me.’ ”
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Note, that is the Vancouver Police! Do the RCMP need to learn some new techniques to apply to the four western provinces, not just PG?

http://netnewsledger.com/2011/12/14/vancouver-police-constables-blog-an-example-of-progressive-policing

In exploring the Thunder Bay “Netnewsledger” site, I discovered the above linked article which deals further with the notion that Vancouver’s Police force is quite progressive and some of their strategies may have achieved the results they were aiming for.

Here is the link to the “beat cop” site which is supported by the VPD.

http://www.beatcopdiary.vpd.ca

I wonder if those VPD tactics would be supported as part of the various “tough on crime” agendas that are so popular these days? Seems to me they have more in common with those social and support services that are such an easy target to cut.

Hmmm . . .

BTW, I like the title of Ben’s article. It finally used the right words for waht is being discussed here – crime.

So, Crime Capital is an appropriate discription.

To determine which is the most dangerous city one would have to go far beyond crime and include statistics for the following (not intended as a full and exhaustive list):

1. rates of various diseases which are caused in part by environmental factors, including physical factors such as air and water quality and social factors such as poverty.

2. rates of occupational diseases and deaths

3. rates of motor vehicle accidents causing injury

4. suicide rates.

In other words, when speaking about dangerous cities, one needs to decide the answer to “dangerous to whom”.

As far as danger from criminal activities, it is much more dangerous to those involved with pushing illigal drugs and those who associate with people who like to get into physical fights than it is to those who have a more normal lifestyle.

However, there are many more things which can be risk factors to shortening one’s life and affecting one’s quality of life to the point where it impacts the individual’s physical and/or mental health.

NMG .. it appears, on first reading, that there is a consitent improvement over a ten year period. It also appears that the “Harper Government”, as they like to be called, may just be out of touch.

This approach is consistent with a report I saw recently of a trend in the USA to move people from prisons earlier than normal through parole, which wss a moive preciptiated by the expense of keeping a person in prison versus keeping a person on parole, but with a closer surveillance than has been the norm.

It appears that the unexpected results are that the repeat offences have been reduced since the individuals are treated in a much more supportive fashion such as is evident from the writings about the VPD.

Oh, the other thing about the get tough on crime approach which seems strange to me is that the crime rates not only in Canada, but also in the USA, have peaked a couple of decades ago and have dropped down to where they were in the early 1960s.

This year shows another national decrease.

It is now getting to the point where one needs to take a bit of a more difficult initiative and see why some regions have been left behind and begin to set up programs specific to those regions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19937041/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/parole-changes-eyed-reduce-repeat-crimes

That is a link to a 4 year old article dealing with an example of intital cahnges to the parole system and support to reduce repeat offences.
================================
“The recommendations included intensive and detailed counseling both before and after release, along with immediate enrollment in drug treatment programs, intense parole supervision and assistance in finding work.

“In addition, the panel suggested the use of short-term halfway houses, mentors who are available at the moment of release and assistance in obtaining identification, clothes and other immediate needs.

“The key is that a person should not leave prison without an immediately available person and plan for post-release life,” said the report, requested by the Justice Department.”

You know I am starting to believe MacLeans, almost got hit by car once,had a bear in my backyard and slipped and fell on the ice ,better start packing.

Totally a bum rap. Prince George is a fine city. Don’t let anyone tell you different.. Including McLeans

Of those crimes reported, how many were committed by a repeat offender? How many of these crimes led to convictions?

Numbers only mean something compared to something else and clearly there is a bias here.
It all boils down how the data is collected and inteperated. PG probaly has more crime incidents reported because its a smaller know thy neighbor population thereofore we are likley a more vidulant.

Take this into account.

PG: 3 homicides/77,0000 people gives you a ratio of 3.9

Vancouver 14 homicides/2100 000 people givs you a ratio of 6.7

So if you look at the ratios vancouver has a higher homicide rate and you can bet that the stanley cup riot blew PG right out of the water just in that one night in terms of other crimes such as assaults and robbery, B&E and property damage.

What we clearly have here is a couple organizations that are bias against prince george based on shoddy numbers which makes me wonder what are they trying to hide? What other city are they trying to take the attention off of?

However.. PG still needs alot of work to be done regardless of what a suvey or statistics say. Lets not get blinded and burdened by the numbers and focus on the real issues.

We put Maclean’s University rankings up on a pedestal when we come out Best in the West, but we jump all over discrediting the magazine when we are ranked #1 for crime. Make up your mind PG.

Heh we are number one I’M so proud.
And Gus you need to run a survey of your own. Yo seem to have all the answeres.
Cheers

“We put Maclean’s University rankings up on a pedestal when we come out Best in the West, but we jump all over discrediting the magazine when we are ranked #1 for crime. Make up your mind PG.”

Bingo! I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here. Instead of crying ‘bum rap’, let’s get the issues out in the open and talk about what it takes to change things.

I would argue that if you took the areas of PG with stable populations that tend not to be transient… ie west of Central or the Hart Highway area… then we would have the lowest crime stats of any community in Canada bar none. B&E’s almost none existent and very safe to walk our neighborhoods at night.

Lets be clear that this is a story about the area east of Central and the transient drug trade related crimes that take place there.

I would bet that PG has some of the lowest crime in Canada for crime on innocent bystanders. If your not in the drug trade walking the streets of the VLA then you are most likely safer here in PG than almost anywhere else in Canada.

If it wasn’t for amalgamation, then we would have two stories here that are like black and white….

Who cares?

JohnnyBelt, from my point of view, you are right on with your comments.

I wonder id anyone has actually read the special article about PG in McLean’s. I have a hard time to not only dispute it, but also calling it an unfair article. I think that it is a fair article about the scene in PG.

Is it a transient town?

Do people move here from smaller communities such as Ft. St. James?

Do people work in places such as the molybdimum mine near Fraser Lake but live in PG?

Has a serial killer been at work in the region in recent years who actually comes from outside of PG?

Is the drug trade in PG particularly violent?

Has anyone else reported what McLean’s has reported in the linked article – Prince George, AFTER A MURDEROUS YEAR, recorded a crime score 11 per cent lower than a decade ago.

So look around you folks. Who on here has posted about that?

Good, It will keep house prices down!

Forgot to link the article. http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/15/crime-most-dangerous-cities

Comments from a blog in Thunder Bay, Ontario’s most dangerous city:

1. “it’s a demographic/cultural based problem. Just like it is in Winnipeg and Regina. Some people may not like me saying that, but it’s true”

2. “At least we are good at something… As mining becomes more prominent, don’t be surprised to see the same thing as St. John’s, a further increase in crime rate.”

There might be some truth to that. Larger metro areas actually seem to be getting safer and smaller communities, both remote as well as satellite communities around larger cities, are seeing rates stay stagnant or dropping at a much slower rate.

http://netnewsledger.com/crime-mapping

Maybe it would be helpful for citizens to get an understanding of where crimes occur by providing crime mapping services on a site such as Opinion 250? Or, perhaps the police should provide such a service on their site.

This reminds me of when Heddy Fry accused us of burning crosses in our front lawns.
LOL LOL LOL!