What a load of BS this is. These spin doktorz is really trying to distort the real picture. This one is one of the better ones of all the spin dok tor stories. How can O250 even print such garbage? Disapointed in you Ben.

This survey is as ridiculous as saying PG makes the top 10 list of places to invest in real estate or ICBC saying they offer the best bang for your insurance buck or BC Hydro saying smart meters will save us money or Cristy Clark saying families first!

Who do these goofs think they are fooling?

For those of us who understand primary school math, support for the project by 48% means that it is FALSE that “the majority of those surveyed in B.C support the project”. “majority” means more than 50%. A correct description of the survey results would be that a majority of those who expressed an opinion support the project, which is quite different.

In any case, the survey results are of little value, for three reasons. First, as the survey itself indicates, most of the people surveyed are not familiar with the project and therefore are not giving a considered opinion. Second, the project description is, no doubt deliberately, misleading in that it fails to mention what will happen to the oil after it reaches Kitimat, namely that it will be loaded onto tankers which will pass through Douglass Channel and then down the coast. This poses enormous environmental risk, which is one of the major factors in opposition to this project. Third, the survey did not mention that the options are not limited to building this pipeline or not, that the third option is to expand the existing pipeline to Vancouver, which would avoid the risk of tankers passing through Douglas Channel and along the coast as well as the expansion of the land area potentially affected by spills and the environmental effects of new pipeline construction.

All in all, this is an excellent example of the abuse of surveys to mislead the public.

To be precise, the description mentions tanker transport, but not the fact that it would go through Douglass Channel (the inference requires knowledge of where exactly Kitimat is, which most people surveyed probably don’t know) and down the coast.

Not mentioned are the First Nations which said they are totally opposed to the pipeline being laid across any of their land, period. Never, ever.

Have they been convinced (one way or the other) that it is alright now?

What about their opposition to tanker traffic up and down the coast?

Is that o.k. now as well?

This just in! 48% of British Columbians know little to nothing about the project but support it anyway! Ha.

Billposer you do know that tankers travel a coastal route out of Vancouver in very busy shipping lanes. Ships have been traveling the Douglas channel for decades without the safety measures that will be applied to the tankers.

Now having said that I am not a great fan of exporting our oil and gas, keep it for our own needs.

I also find it hilarious we export oil, gas and coal but have a carbon tax, bend over folks. Oh and a big thank you to Andrew Weaver for the carbon tax, resulting from a convoluted science.

Yes, but new areas of the coast will be exposed to tanker traffic. And sure, ships have been traveling Douglas Channel for ages – I’m not suggesting that it is not navigable. Oil tankers, however, can cause much greater damage since they contain much more oil, and they are larger and clunkier than most if not all of the ships that have hitherto traveled the Channel.

The survey indicates that despite loud opposition, the majority of those surveyed in B.C support the project.

Nearly half (48% overall, 14% “strongly”) of British Columbians say they support the project,

Ben….do you not have an educated proof reader or did you just have to fill space with illogical babble? The last time I checked, a majority was MORE than half, half is equal to 50%.

I’m not going to get into the subject of this pipeline project other than to say that the people of BC had better WAKE UP to what this pipeline represents: Huge long-term profits for Enbridge,an apparent multitude of short term jobs, and an everlasting,extremely high environmental risk to a vast area of our great province!WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Don’t worry about the facts, Seamutt. Most around here aren’t interested.

48% Support it
32% Don’t support it
20% Are undecided

If you lump the undecided in with the Non-support people, then yes, a majority do not support it.

I prefer to think that the non-decided will come around to the yes side eventually. Lol.

Aren’t statistics fun?

When asked to name one main project benefit and one main project concern, the top project benefit, mentioned by half (51%) of British Columbians, is “employment/ economic benefits”. Less frequently mentioned benefits include “export/trade benefits” (10%) and “better/ safer mode of transport” (5%).

Me thinks that Harper ran this survey. And what about jobs? Well maybe during construction mostly by out of province workers. Oh and maybe when the pipeline ruptures.. And everyone ignores the fact that Enbridge will make billions in profit from this project and the shareholders will be laughing all the way yo the bank.
Cheers

You have no choice in the matter…Just like the PAC, It`s going to be built anyways…But think of this,we can write plays on oil spills and put them on at the PAC…win win.

Who commissioned the survey?

Who did the survey?

What was the methodology?

Who was surveyed?

What did the survey instrument look like?

Where can I find out that information?

Without at least some of that base information, it is a total waste of my time and I think anyone else’s time to even bother to respond to this either in support or opposition.

Okay, so I did not read the first paragraph …. :-)

The rest of my comments stand.

From the above, there are a few items which can be broken out a bit more clearly, in my opinion.

“A majority of British Columbians are not familiar with the project. Slightly more than four-in-ten (42%) residents say they are “very familiar” (5%) or “somewhat familiar” (37%) with the project described above.

Another three-in-ten (30%) are “not very familiar” and one-quarter (25%) are “not at all familiar” with the project.”

The better way to put that is as follows:
1. very familiar = 5%
2. somewhat familiar = 37%
3. not very familiar = 30%
4. not at all familiar = 25%

The total is 97% …. where is the other 3%?

Where is the cutoff between 1,2,3, and 4? In other words will two people who know exactly the same about the project respond the same way? Not at all familiar is easy enough. The rest all have a varying degree of latitude of how they will be answered.

A good survey will ask some key knowledge questions abouty the project and the survey will then grade each to come up with a placement in the degree of knowledge.

This is nothing but a popularity contest. This is not a good quality scientific survey.

thus not familiar = 58%
3. Total of #1 and #2 = 42%

Another three-in-ten (30%) are “not very familiar” and one-quarter (25%) are “not at all familiar” with the project.

Sorry, left some outtakes on that last post ….. too early in the day,

and lousy surveys done by companies that should be more credible for companies that should be more credible really tend to tick me off ….. ;-)

We have noone interested in quality anymore …..

This is all part of the **spin** and propaganda that takes place on these types of projects.

In any event the pipeline itself is a very small part of the big picture. Especially when it comes to jobs. Keep in mind that this oil will come from the Alberta Oil Sands, and that industry provides jobs for thousands of people. In fact, some would say if it wasnt for the oil sands, Canada would have been in serious trouble in the last few years.

So the majority of jobs will be created and maintained in Alberta. Some jobs in BC during the construction of the pipeline, and some jobs in Kitimat. Not much of a payoff for BC. However we need to keep the big picture in mind. This is the **Country** of Canada. BC is just a Province.

For those who dont know the terminals on the coast, and the coast itself is the responsibility of the Federal Government. In addition once a pipeline crosses a Provincial Border it comes under the authority of the Federal Government.

So at the end of the day it is the Federal Government who will decide whether or not this pipeline goes forward. Harper may very well state, that it is in the National Interest for it to go forward. And in fact he would be correct.

When the Trans Canada Pipeline was built in the late 50’s early 60’s no one complained. In fact people were happy to have the pipeline and the associated work.

There are 32000 miles of oil and gas pipelines under the Gulf of Mexico. There are millions of miles of oil and gas pipelines all around the world.

Anyone who thinks this line, or another line to the USA, or an expansion of the present line to Vancouver will not go through are fooling themselves.

Canada has 175,199,993,856 Barrels of proven oil reserves. This makes us second only to Saudi Arabia (264,599,994,368 Barrels).

We are going to be a ***huge*** player in the oil business for the next 50 years, so we better get used to the idea, and find the best way possible to exploit this resource.

Bickering and whining will not solve any of these problems. We need to ensure that best practices are front and centre in the development of our resources.

Being against this pipeline can be likened to having a pimple in the crack of your butt. While people might sympathize with you, you would be hard pressed to find someone to squeeze the pimple.

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/businesspoll.html
Vancouver Sun – Enbridge mouthpiece. Their poll isn’t showing the major support either.

I voted yes for a new peeler bar in Prince George and no one voted no so Alibis Bar and Grill has 100% support of Prince George voters…yes.

This poll was conducted by Enbridge and was designed to only pinpoint the possible positive results of the Gateway Project.
It lacked any creditability as an informational survey as it was nothing but a put up survey. Might just as well have been done by the phoney Fraser institute.

This is typical Enbrige rhetoric for which they are well known. A couple of monthes ago they has a survey company interview about twelve of us under the pretence of gaining public input into what the public knew about the project. It turned out to be run by enbridge and it took only a few minutes to spot that this survey was in fact to learn new tactics to get their lucrative contract supported. The survey soon turned hostile as the more intelligent and informed panel realized what they were involved, and all the survey learned was that their poor attempts at conducting clandestine public perception warping tactics were actually very obvious and in fact angered those who clearly saw through the ruse and were expected to be ignorant sheep who swallowed any official looking material at the will of the company.

These people are snakes who should never be trusted with British Columbian’s personal property: the land and resources of this province.

So surveys conducted by greenie NGO’s are legitimate. I get it now.

This is off topic but just plain funny

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/05/honda-being-sued-in-small-claims-court-by-woman-they-ignored-over-hybrid-gas-electric-gas-mileage/

Interesting that people are concerned about the spin here, when they weren’t quite as concerned about yesterday’s story about the Fraser Basin conducting a study into the safety of the oil and gas industry on the public.

Selective outrage? Gotta love it.

Me thinks that Harper ran this survey. And what about jobs? Well maybe during construction mostly by out of province workers. Oh and maybe when the pipeline ruptures.. And everyone ignores the fact that Enbridge will make billions in profit from this project and the shareholders will be laughing all the way yo the bank.
Cheers

Whats going on there appear to be two sites for this page.

This site has eight posters but when you click on the story at the head of the page there are a gazillion more
Cheers

If anyone is interested here is a poll the Vancouver Sun has going last time I checked it was 71% against.
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/01/04/do-you-support-the-enbridge-pipeline-across-northern-b-c-take-our-poll/

Online polls are easily manipulated.

If O250 put up the same poll it would probably be 90% aagainst. It speaks more about the readership demographics than anything else.

On Ben’s show this morning Tim Spewin McEwen said this was a scientific poll. ??

“Online polls are easily manipulated.”

On line polls are not scientific polls.

Scientific polls are easy to manipulate by whoever poses the questions, selects the cohort to be questioned, selects the method of posing the questions (something as simply as the order of the questions posed will skew a survey one way rather than another), etc. etc.

http://www.canada.com/business/residents+support+Northern+Gateway+pipeline+project+poll/5948051/story.html

I think that is a reasonable articel on the topic. It included an interview with a prof at UBC who seems to be objective on the matter.

“University of B.C. forest resources management professor George Hoberg, a frequent commentator on the Northern Gateway project, cautioned that the Enbridge result didn’t use the terms “oilsands” or “tanker.”

“Use of those “hot button” terms could significantly influence the results, he said, adding he is skeptical of polls such as those by Ipsos and Mustel that were funded by parties with a stake in the debate.

“Hoberg also noted politicians, both in Ottawa and Victoria, are much more sensitive to people who have “intense” views on the matter — and in particular conservative-oriented voters who, perhaps because they are active sports fishermen, may cross party lines to oppose the Northern Gateway project.

And here is comment from the polling company:

“Ipsos-Reid vice-president Kyle Braid said the low awareness level suggests opinions could shift as attention turns to the public hearings.

“There is more support in British Columbia for Northern Gateway than there is opposition, but . . . familiarity with the project is quite low, which means opinions could shift over time,” he said.

“And I think the public is looking to hear from both supporters and opponents to make their case, and they’re willing to hear from both sides on this issue.”

And here is the “positive” spin from Enbridge:
“Enbridge’s Stanway said the low awareness level presents an opportunity to the company.

“The poll “shows British Columbians are a lot more open-minded than some people would suggest,” he said. “What this says to us is that there’s an opportunity here to convince and to educate British Columbians.”

So, to the PR gurus out there, would you have released this survey or do you think that Enbridge should have taken the information, saw that they have more “education” to do (wonder what they have been doing up to now) get on with doing it and then take another poll.

Of course, this could be considered a baseline survey, although I would think that they should have done one some time ago, and they may have done that for all I know but not released it.

In fact, this could be the best result they got so far …… ;-)

And now they are already trying to backpedal.

Harper already said that the pipeline is a fait accompli.

Opinion polls (like the above carefully manicured one and others) are therefore useless exercises in futility.

This may be a federal jurisdiction decision, but because the native communities are against it for the most part it becomes a much larger obstacle than simply a disgruntled public in BC. After his so-called impassioned apology lasy year, he is now going to trampled all over those same people again? I doubt it if he has any political future planned for himself.