strong union, and I like that, stronger than mine, but please already…..

“please already…” what? willyj? Please stop teaching? Please stop caring for our kids? Please stop whining about classroom conditions because back in your day…?

What should the union and teachers do? Should they stop trying to improve schools? Should they just do whatever the government wants and settle like the rest of the unions out there have?

Please willyj, you really sound like you know what the teachers and unions are experiencing and can solve the problem… so, Let’s hear it!

“”please already…” what? willyj? Please stop teaching? Please stop caring for our kids? Please stop whining about classroom conditions because back in your day…?”

Teacher’s don’t give a rat’s ass about the kids or about improving the schools. This is all about them. They’d get a lot more support from me if they stopped using the kids as pawns. I’m all for giving them a raise but could they please stop telling us that they’re doing this for the kids?

The government’s plan is to create classes as high as 50, plunk kids down in front of a computer all day and let them teach themselves. No limits on the amount of special needs students in a classroom. That’s what we’re fighting.

The mainstream media focuses on the wages, but ignores this. Is the situation I list here what you want for for children and grandchildren? I’m willing to fight it, and so is my union. I would take two years of zero, but not two years of zero AND this.

Faxman. You could change teachers to the Liberal government in your comment. That’s probably the way it really is.

“Faxman. You could change teachers to the Liberal government in your comment. That’s probably the way it really is.”

Guess I should have said, “teachers and government” instead of just teachers. :)

So how does one settle a dispute like this without appearing to use the “kids as pawns”?

The whole point of striking is the withdrawal of service. I believe in this case they are working to rule, not withdrawing “essential” service.

The government probably does not want to force arbitration. I think that is the only way to go. I would not be surprised if the employer does not want to go there.

“So how does one settle a dispute like this without appearing to use the “kids as pawns”?”

Oh, I don’t know…how about the honest approach? Say to the people of this province, “I provide a valuable service to the people of this province and I think I deserve an increase in my salary.” That would get my support.

The “your kids education will suffer unless I get more money and better benefits” approach just isn’t cutting it for me.

Let’s stop pretending that any of this is for the kids.

“Bell to Bell”
That is basicly how I work.
I go in 5 min. before my shift starts and leave 5 min. after my shift ends.
What I need to do I do within my 8 hr shift.
That’s how it should be done.
Teachers going in early and staying late is crap , there Union should not be allowing this to happen-unless overtime is going to be paid.
What they call “Work to Rule” should be worked everyday.

Well, the problem is that there is the teacher as a union member and the teacher as a professional.

For a teacher as a professional, it should be about the children.

For a medical doctor as a professional, it should be about the patients. Yet, they too are torn between a compensation agreement with the government and their patients, as are many other health care workers.

Dentists, interestingly enough, are not.

Neither are engineers, architects, lawyers, foresters, accountants and a host of others. They are all relatively free to charge what the market will bear and to provide the service which they as individuals as well as an association of professionals determine to be standard practice and even best practice if they wish.

So, let’s just stop pretending, faxman, and let’s just call it what it is, you do not like teachers …. :-)

So if it’s bell to bell this week I would hope to see an altered salary. 6-7 hours isn’t a full day so why should we pay for more? It’s parents and communities that will have to advocate for smaller class sizes in time as the issue of salaries always takes over when the teachers renew contracts. Lumping the issue of teacher salaries in with these other factors does not help the kids, never has. Perhaps a separate contract for wages and then the other issues.

Yes alter the salary perp to include countless hours at home marking papers and doing report cards. Walk in the shoes of a teacher for a week and you’d be exhausted. No one works as hard as a teacher so pay up!

“I go in 5 min. before my shift starts and leave 5 min. after my shift ends.
What I need to do I do within my 8 hr shift.”

I suspect that is what it might take with teachers eventually ifd things keep going this way.

As far as I understand, that is the way it works with doctors, at least the ones who have that attitude, which is not all of them. One issue per office visit. You have a second issue? Make a separate appointment.

I am old fashioned enough to think that people, not only those in the traditional professions, but anyone who cares about their work and the services they provide can bend to different situations and make rational decisions of what is best for everyone rather than being a professional automaton.

We are not machines.

“6-7 hours isn’t a full day so why should we pay for more”

Teachers receive salaries, they do not receive wages. They are expected to do a job of teaching students, which includes the time spent in school in class as well as time spent, whether at school or at home, to prepare for class, mark assignments and helping those students who have trouble understanding something or those who can advance faster and need additional work to keep their interests.

And then we have those extra curricular activites which everyone is expected to participate in.

And then they have to keep up with professional development, new ideas, new directives, and developing some of their own intiatives.

There are wage earners – they have unions, at least some of them. Then there are professional associations – most professions seem to have them.

Then there are teachers – professionals! Why they have a union, work to rule, go on strike, etc as if they are wage earners rather than professionals – this is a riddle that needs to be solved one of these days!

Do those that criticize the teachers, do you have any teachers friends? Do you have actually any idea what the job entails, or is it all hearsay?

What do you do with a class room of 30 kids and three special needs? Out of that 30 there will be some that are not classed special needs but do need extra attention. Some of those 30 will be struggling socially, have no home support, come to school hungry. Lets not forget the students that are bright and gifted, they are also special needs and need extra attention. This is how a teacher tries to
divide their time.

Try to understand the issues, all you have to do is listen and observe.

To those that criticize I know and you know, you have no idea.

“So, let’s just stop pretending, faxman, and let’s just call it what it is, you do not like teachers …. :-)”

I like teachers gus it’s the ridiculous demands that union makes on their behalf that I take issue with.

Things like demanding two weeks paid leave for the death of a friend. Is there any other union out there that would make such a demand?

“Teachers receive salaries, they do not receive wages. They are expected to do a job of teaching students, which includes the time spent in school in class as well as time spent, whether at school or at home, to prepare for class, mark assignments and helping those students who have trouble understanding something or those who can advance faster and need additional work to keep their interests.”

Absolutely true Gus but there is such a thing called overload. Those salary hours do not include 24hrs/day 7 days per week.

So if you were a teacher where would you want to work?

http://www.nucleuslearning.com/content/canadian-teacher-salary-rankings-provinces-and-territories

Interesting that the Provinces with the highest taxes have the lowest teacher salaries.

I would not want to be a teacher in an elementary or even a secondary system. After formal post secondary professional education and following that with about 15 years working in the profession in the private sector, I took on a post secondary teaching position and then administrative/teaching role and then back to the private sector.

There is a ton of freedom in the post secondary system and a lot of learning going on for those instructors who love what they are doing both in the specialty field as well as the teaching field.

I moved three times in my life. Once with my parents when I was too young to have a choice; once to go to an out of town university and then stay for work; and finally to move for lifestyle, which was to PG from a metro urban lifestyle. I would not move for a higher paying job in another community unless the community met my other expectations including the obvious cost of living requirements.

But, that is me. In this country where many people love to see their belongings put onto moving trucks and taken back off again, and love leaving friends and making new ones such questionable incentives might work.

BTW, the average ratio of class contact time to total work associated with the task of post secondary teaching was considered to be 3:1, especially for new instructors/profs and new course assignments as well as program restructuring. The max teaching load for non trades people was around 18 hours. When you work that through it works out to more than 1,800hrs per year. Professional Development time and vacation comes on top of that.

So, unless one has been teaching Psych 100 for 20 years and gives minimum assignments to be marked and uses objective type examinations with a computerized or acetate overlay marking tool, the instructors/profs in advanced applied courses have a relatively high work load for a fixed salary.

Putting in that many hours in a professional consulting firm which pays for overtime and charges for most such hours as billables to the client can be much more lucrative.

I agree on the point you make about the paid bereavement leave for friends.

I pretty much agree with the postings about similar “demands” on this site.

http://castlegarsource.com/news/bc-teachers-issue-72-hour-strike-notice-effort-speed-bargaining-liberal-government-13382

Please “NoWay” don’t state that “no one works harder than teachers” because it simply isn’t true. There are many hard-working professions out there. Silly statement to make.

For some teachers, this won’t be a change from the norm. There are lots of teachers that don’t do extracurricular activities or after-school activities. Just like everywhere else…..it’s usually just a few that do all the volunteering. Those are usually the same teachers that already put in an 8 hour day teaching, marking, and doing prep work. Those are the ones that deserve a raise. Then there are the ones that are there just because they get 12 weeks vacation…..they don’t ever put in a 40hr week and it shows in the quality of their teaching.

So why does a teacher have to put in extracurricular activities tied in with a school?

“There are many hard-working professions out there. Silly statement to make.”

My apologies bornandbred you are absolutely right. Let me rephrase my statement.

No one works as hard as a teacher at the starting salary of 45k. Doctors are run off their feet too. But their starting salary is a little higher.

Looking forward to getting rid of Christy family first Clark. No union should get bullied like this. They are even going after their seniority. My union is getting raked over too! Don’t give up BCTF!! Maybe all gov unions will be on strike soon..

So $45,000 without pension and benefits is a bad starting salary and $82,000 without pension and benefits is not a decent wage. 10 months a year to boot!

Are you serious NoWay? There are a lot of people who work just as hard as teachers, and maybe even more, for a starting salary of less than $45,000. What world do you live in?

I would like to point out that in the vast majority of the jobs professionals take on, there is a 1 on 1 ratio of professional to client. Teachers take a 1 to 30 ratio of professional to student. Imagine as a doctor trying to solve the health issues of 30 patients all at the same time. Or, as a lawyer, have 30 clients all in the same room and solve their legal problems without any support. Think now of your job and see if you could have a room full of your clients and see how quickly you start asking for help.

Yes totally serious bornandbred because non of those other people are looking after peoples brats for 6 hrs a day.

…a riddle that needs to be solved?

I would think that it may be the end to professional associations of any kind in this province.

Clearly a union is needed to support any government employee in dealing with a government that is unwilling to deal.

Being in a professional association might be just fine if you were able to deal with an employer that was interested in dealing professionally.

There you go princegeorge….riddle solved…being in a professional association with this government would be great if you are into getting whatever force fed any garbage that was dealt.

Your professional/union dribble….who cares…

Rosebud and NoWay, one example is daycare workers. What are they paid? Aren’t they looking after “other people’s brats”? Another example, nurses. How many patients do they look after a day? Care aides, could you do that job?

Which one of the above group of workers get Christmas, Spring Break and summer vacations? People go knowingly into their careers; you take the good with the bad.

Daycare workers can make more than teachers. Start up your own daycare and you can make pretty darn good money. You don’t need an education to do it.

“YMCA in PG charges about 30.00 per day per kid (44.75 for 9 hours. PER KID).”

So if you took in 10 kids are charged 30.00 per day and only did that for 9 months of the year you would pull in $54,000.

“Effective April 1, 2011
Salary Information – 9-step wage scale for nurses in B.C.
• New graduates (Step 1) $30.79 / hourly
http://www.viha.ca • Step 9 $40.42 / hourly
• Increase 1 step for every 1879.2 hours worked
Shift & Weekend Premiums
• Evening – 70 cents/ hourly
•
Nights – $3.50/ hourly
•
Weekend – $2.00/ hourly (2300 hours Friday to 2300 hours Sunday)
+ Super Shift Premium
•
Nights on the weekend – $1.00/ hourly
•
Total nights on weekend premium = $6.50/hourly
Incentive for nurse working in Difficult-to-Fill Units
(OR/PAR, ER, ICU/CCU)
•
An additional $50/month (prorated for part–time nurses)”

Nurses start off alittle higher than teachers and so they should.

LOL Could a Nurse do a teachers job?

“People go knowingly into their careers; you take the good with the bad.”

“Last April, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Susan Griffin quashed key clauses in bills 27 and 28 as unconstitutional because they violated teachers’ charter right to freedom of association. Griffin gave the government a year to fix this situation.”

What they did was illegal. Time to fix it!

You have got to be a teacher NoWay. The above argument demonstrates that. I cannot believe you think daycare operators make good money. Also, we weren’t talking about money. We were talking about teachers being the hardest workers out there. Just not true.

No I’m not a teacher and you abviously don’t know any teachers or daycare operators bornandbred. Do a little research.

http://www.godaycare.com/child-care-cost/british%20columbia

Even unlicensed are charging more than 30.00 a day.

NoWay, are you saying that daycare operators make more than teachers? I would love to see you make that statement at the annual gala of childcare workers. You’d be laughed right out of the room.