‘The children of the Bella Bella have taken an incredible stand, reaching out to … to take part in a 48-hour hunger strike to oppose the Enbridge project.’ from the Globe and Mail… Sponsored and suggested by the teachers and principal. Maybe they should learn how oil tankers are constructed instead of the typical left wing garbage espoused by their educators in this ‘pristine’ welfare basket case…seasonal unemployment rate of 85% and an average of 50% says a lot about their interest in participating in the Kitimat area workforc…

This is the new version of trinkets and beads…we`ll talk to them damn heathen Indians till we`re blue in the face ,say something funny and we`ll do it anyway….

NO MORE OPEN PEN FISH FARMS!!!

The Haisla`s have been disputing this also and nothing is being done,how do we think we will all fair against giant oil company…pull your knees up around your ears and kiss it all good bye.

Will someone please write about this so a million years from now they wont make the same mistakes…maybe???

Again, if people want a hope of swaying this JRP they NEED to come up with LEGITIMATE concerns. Saying “no not in my backyard” will NOT sway this panel. Millions of people all over the world have already decided that oil pipelines are OK and that the spill risk is acceptable. Spill risk, dependance on oil, oil exports and oil prices are NOT why these hearings are taking place. Debating those things only waste everybody’s time. Nathan Cullen’s speech was a waste of time. Like everyone else, he failed to show the pipeline would damage him personally. This process WILL be a rubber stamp unless people find tangible reasons to prevent it and so far that is not happening. The civil disobedience and threats only hampers their cause further.

Spill risk is a big reason the hearings are taking place, is it not? Upstream impacts ( from the oil sands ) should also be within the scope of the JRP, especially if the JRP is considering the economic advantages from the oil sands exports through the pipeline. Precedent has been set in similar reviews for a sustainability based approach (meaning taking into account broader environmental impacts associated with the pipeline).

“seasonal unemployment rate of 85% and an average of 50%” .. and how is this pipeline and subsequent tanker traffic going to employ these people? And not everyone is willing to trade thier lifestyle or environment for a few jobs. If money or jobs was the big carrot as some like to believe and these people truly have a hard life I am sure they would be the first in line to want to reap the benefits of this pipeline. And the fact they are not speaks volumns as to what the real economic value of this pipeline is.
How can environmental concern NOT be part of the JRP process, that is just totally ludicrous. The fact that the rest of the world, as you say, has said its’ ok to run pipelines and tankers has no bearing on whether or not it is feasible or safe in this geography. What exactly is MORE tangible concerns than the concerns of the people who will be living along its’ route or possibly affected by any type of oil spill.

Some of you folks need to understand that this pipeline is nothing more than a pipedream. The oppposing FNs will have this project tied up in court for so long it won’t be built, even with the shorter “review” process. The reason being, those opposing FN’s rights and title will be infringed upon with this project, which is due to the lack of meaningful consultation. Take sometime to review other FN courtcases that have set the precedence. This “incident” is similar to what happened to the Gitga’at(Hartley Bay) awhile back when Enbridge was first floating this idea, they used police escorts, when there was no threat at all when they met in Hartley Bay. Have a read of this article… gives you an idea who may have told the JRP to get an escort…pathetic really…

http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/01/16/Enbridge-First-Nations-Relations/

Oops, it should say Gitxaala FN, which is the Kitkatla,a neighbouring band of the Gitga’at…nonetheless, a big insult to how NOT to build relationships with FNs…

“The oppposing FNs will have this project tied up in court for so long it won’t be built” .. you’re assuming, of course, that democracy is still alive and well in Canada. We will see. I am under the impression this pipeline will be attempted to be pushed through and the only thing that will stop it will be physical blockades, and then it will be a question of how far will the gov’t go to stop people protesting. This has the potential to become very ugly and dangerous.

Hey But,

No assumptions here, like I said, look at the history of FN courtcases that have been done in the past, they clearly state the intentions that government and to some part, industry should take to avoid repeating costly mistakes…there are numerous examples where FNs and gov’t/industry have worked well together, but unfortunatley, the news likes the negative stuff more…we all hope this doesn’t escalate to blockades, gov’t sending in their troops, having it get very ugly and dangerous, as you point out. That’s why we have a court system that will listen to FN’s cases that involve ever-evolving meaningful consultation, the Cdn constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms…I know, I see where your coming from, how all that is a distant memory or whatever, the point being, that democracy has eroded, but, believe me when I say that its likely those FNs that oppose this project, are getting ready for a court battle, when the time is right…

I am a little long in the tooth but I will be there to stop the pipeline along with the majority of BC residents and I’m sure there will be a lot more older people than myself. If we can’t stop you by law then it will become very unpleasant for every one.

It is easy for the average person to say go ahead and push the pipe line through. The majority of them haven’t even seen the country where the pipeline is going through and they don’t care. Just as long as it isn’t where they live. They haven’t seen some of the spills that Enbridge has tried to cover up but can’t. Harpers Ignorance is no excuse for Enbridges pipeline.

So just what is the spill risk on land or sea and what volume? Any information?

Here is an interesting read. Maybe in the longterm the market may not need the pipeline.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/03/30/lawrence-solomon-a-world-awash-in-oil/

That carbon tax sure is working today, cold, thanks fibs.

hey seamutt,

Here’s article that will give you a rough idea of what the risks are on land and in water:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/03/05/Diluted-Bitumen/

Here’s another read on why the gateway project won’t be needed:

http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2012/02/02/Northern-Gateway-Inflationary-Threat/

No, spill risk is NOT part of the JRP. Again the risk of a spill has already been deemed manageable given the thousands of kilometers of oil pipelines in this province and around the world and also due to Enbridge’s spill avoidance and management plans. What the JRP is looking for is people who will be negatively impacted by the operation of this pipeline. Which why the reveiwer’s eyes glaze over when people like Nathan Cullen blab on and on about how there is going to be a spill and all the salmon will die. Its just wasted time. If people don’t start bringing up legitmate concerns, the report will say some like “we found a few people negatively affected, pay them compensation from your compensation funds and off we go.” But I admit it will be hard for US eco-terrorists to prove they will be negatively affected by this pipeline. The JRP is NOT a catch-all forum for Canadian oil policy, like it or not. Why don’t you go protest about it?

Pointing out possible deficiencies in Enbridge’s spill avoidance & response plan and suggesting reasonable, attainable alternatives would fall under the scope of the JRP – if you can prove it directly affects you. That would be a useful thing to do. However, Enbridge’s plan is the most comprehensive in Canada so far. So good luck with that.

So people show up to the JRP hearings to ‘protest’, which makes little sense if you think about it. And if this pipeline gets approved, these same people will accuse the process of being a sham. Sounds about right.

Hey Silverback

match ya http://www.northerngateway.ca/news-and-media/northern-gateway-blogs/trade-diversification-for-canada/northern-gateway-bad-for-economy-not-so-say-economists

That pipeline was 60 years old and in the process of being updated when that incident happened.

“According to the Pacific Pilotage Authority a typical tanker in center channel under the Second Narrow bridge will have about 13 meters clearance at 4.6 meters high tide. Even at the two shallow spots off to the edges of the channel there is still 4.4-5.4 meters clearance. Where did the author get his two meter figure? The period of slack water is longer than stated unless you demand zero current – for example if one knot each way is allowed, there is an hour roughly. There is very little benzene in the diluent (condensate). There are resources (check out Burrard Clean) in Vancouver Harbour to address spills and every tanker entering our waters above a small size has to be contracted to them. Crude oil and petroleum product tankers have been in BC waters for nearly a century without incident, including over half a century from Kinder Morgan’s docks. Coastal tankers still supply 100% of the liquid fuels to Vancouver Island, Haida Gwai, and other communities along the coast. Methanex ran ammonia and methanol tankers in and out of Kitimat for decades without incident. No guarantee of no accidents in future, but perhaps some reassurance.
If you want to ban all tankers in BC waters, we better get a bigger navy because the Americans run hundreds of tankers through the Strait of Juan de Fuca every year. And start building pipelines to Vancouver Island, etc.”

Hey Silverback what about the pipelines already in BC?

Hey I just want to see facts not hysterical chest beating. I would like to see how the pipeline will be operated. What safeguards in place.

Hey how does Bella Bella get their petroleum products? I don’t think they are ready to start rubbing sticks together again.

Yo gamblor and seamutt,

You 2 remind me of that hitchhiker in “There’s Something About Mary” where Ben Stiller’s character picks up the hitchhiker at the “truck stop” and the hitchhiker tries to sell him on the idea of 7 minute abs…Ben listens to him, then says to him, along the lines of, what about 6 minute abs…and the guy looses it because that’s all he wants to believe, he looks and blinks his eyes hysterically, nut-like, jigs his head like a bobble-head, and says no! like a mentally challenged kid and continues to lose it…that’s you 2 characters…the ignorance and arrogance you 2 spew is along the lines of S.Harper…like I said before, this project is a pipedream, because the opposing FNs will have this project in court for years to come, because these FN’s rights and title will be infringed, due to a huge lack of meaningful consultation…it won’t be built in any of our life times…here’s you 2 character’s profile…

http://www.viddler.com/v/c8809791

The attached video and my comment are in reference to what I wrote earlier…gamblor and seamutt are clearly disregarding what I wrote, which are facts, whether you like it or not, or
” the fact of the matter is”…S.Harper’s favourite saying… the court process is there for all and FNs are not except from that process…look at the cases with Delgamuukw, Haida/Taku River Tlingit and the Mikisew…like I said, ever-evolving FN rights and title and meaningful consultation can not and will not be ignored…the court process will be utilized for this, just pointing out the obvious. When the time is right, these FNs groups will be ready…

oops,FNs are not excempt from the process…

Hey silverback you just can’t handle the truth. Facts, there are biased facts on both sides of the issue, I just want the facts that is why I move ahead without preconceived bias.

Pure comedy – bashing an oil pipeline on a laptop. Oh the irony! Yeah oil is terrible – until you need to ship your consumer electronics that you’ll never part with and can never see yourself without from China to Future Shop. The boats and trucks do not run on your own sense of self-satisfation, they run on dirty diesel.

LOL seamutt…how was that twitch, bobble-head response doing when you wrote that…you can’t handle the truth! so-jack nicholson-like or should I say Stephen Harper,lol…

Your “truth” and “preconceived bias” are what? Those courtcases I was referencing are real today, as they were when the courts ruled on them, back then…and they will be referenced again, when the time is right, irregardless of this flawed “JRP” process…you can’t have the federal crown utilize this flawed process as consultation, of any sort, it simply won’t hold up in court, now I know you didn’t say that, but that’s what the feds are trying to do and it simply won’t work and it will be a huge, costly mistake because the feds and the Asian markets want it so bad, that’s the truth and facts seamutt, no way of getting around that, unless, of course, you want to keep denying it and turn the blind eye to it…keep it up and you’ll see what happens…to the court of this country it will go…marching,like, jack nicholson, in that movie…FNs don’t like using the court process as much as the next guy, but, if they are disregarded and disrespected, like in this process, they have no other option…no preconceived bias in that…

gamblor,

I’m all for economic development, but, in this case, the FNs were left out of the equation entirely. You see, meaningful consultation is to include FNs AT THE START of the preliminary idea,(or whatever you wanna call it) stage, not after the fact, with cookie-cutter financing “options” or little to nothing ownership agreements…like Neil Sterritt said, shut down this highly-flawed JRP process and the FNs will talk, do not try to “sweeten the pie” at this point, that’s highly disrespectful and insulting. Believe me, FNs want to be productive in this society, they don’t want to be wards of the state, like is stated in the archaic,federal law, the “Indian Act”. I ain’t bashing or chest-thumping here, just pointing out a process(court process) that the FNs will utilize for their rightful disposal…

So how does oil get to Bella Bella again. Hypocrites.

seamutt,

To the contrary, FNs didn’t make that racist piece of legislation, the “Indian Act” your federal gov’t did…again, I’ll simply refer you to my previous posts about this…the sooner you read and understand that, the better your Aryan,Anglo-Saxon, thick skull of yours will be…

Silverback chillout dude, you are going to blow. So how does Bella Bella get its oil? Its not about the indian act or any of that feel good spiritual bs. I will say again which you seem to overlook because of biased emotion I am looking for information on how the line will be built and operated to try a access the risks. The natives or any of those multimillion dollar greenies outfits and their overpaid CEO’s do not seem to be interested. Hippocrates. I have never said I am for or against the line, but I do see a lot of misinformation. Settle down dude.

Seamutt, I’m good, always am…find out yourself how Bella Bella gets it oil, its pretty obvious…the indian act is far from feel good spiritual bs(there’s your ignorance shining through again)…educate yourself on these issues to get some real insight of what meaningful consultation is and this project could possibly be different than all the opposition it is getting…not sure about who ur multi-million dollar greenies outfits and CEO’s are, call them what you want, they are looking out for the best interest of this province, is all, it seems you have alot of mis-information for your justification stance…typical Hypocrite yourself seamutt, one to complain about FNs, yet, not willing to educate yourself about FNs…