I heard Christy Clark speak yesterday on the Gateway pipeline… it was down right scary to think she is the premier of BC. She was trying to blame other politicians for making up their mind, and says she will wait until the review panel has spoken. Essentially says BC shouldn’t have a say in the Gateway project and that her government is doing nothing to reach their own conclusions on the matter.

One can pretty easily see that Clark supports Gateway despite the fact she knows the people of BC do not. Rather than take a principled position to try and convince the majority, she instead resorts to what amounts to lies to shift blame elsewhere and say that she is hoping to learn more about the project. She isn’t fooling anyone but herself. It shows we have a disingenuous premier that will not advocate for her province when it counts.

For her stand on Gateway alone Christy Clark needs to go… we need an election ASAP because having a person like her in power is going to be doing real harm to the future of this province.

To say nothing of the Clark involvement with the principles behind the sale of BC Rail, or the $6 million she approves of to buy off the legal bills of Basi/Virk… Gateway shows she has an agenda she does not want to share with the public, and this ought to worry everyone.

Now that the AG has released his scathing report on the DND’s F-35 Project, it’s quite evident that nobody in Ottawa cares about the Canadian taxpayer.

They either are completely inept or they bold faced lied to the Canadian public about the true cost of the program. Being out by 10 Billion dollars is not just fudging it a little bit. I can’t count how many times Harper claimed that it was “a good deal for Canada”.

How poorly does Peter McKay have to perform before he gets fired? Maybe if he spent less time using Search & Rescue helicopters for his personal use, he might have noticed something wrong with the F-35 deal. His head needs to roll and be placed on a pike… so to speak.

Our only saving grace is that the jets were not purchased yet. But that doesn’t mean there won’t be some blowback from the manufacturer. Usually deals of this magnitude have some sort of walk-away penalty.

Here is another example of how much the ordinary citizen can believe and expect by those elected to make worthwhile decisions and keep their promises:

On November 20, 2010 the referendum to support the city (Victoria B.C.) borrowing money for the cost of the new Johnson Street Bridge passed 60% to 40%.

Since then endless modification ideas and elimination of some attractive features have driven up the cost estimates from 63 millions to 77 millions and now to 92.8 millions! However, it is probable that another 12 millions will be added by the time the project is finished in 2015.

The referendum approval has been overidden and bloated by tens of millions more.

Are the tax paying voters upset? You bet they are!

Yes, Christy Clark has to go. But what does Adrian Dix have to say that’s really any different about the pipeline than what she has? Is he going to stand up to the Federal government to stop it, or at least exact something more out of its construction for the citizens of BC than the promise of some ‘jobs’?

The FACT is neither of these two leaders or their Parties represent the people of BC or their overall best interests. Which one of them will be the first to admit they know the difference between ‘inflation’ and ‘prosperity’? For with the pipeline it will be the former that’s visited upon us, even if it comes first in the guise of the latter. Which one of them will address the growing imbalance between a growing ‘standard of living’ for most people (still), only accompanied by a far faster growth in the ‘COST of living’ for ALL?

Ben hit the nail on the head, we are slow to react but some day we will pull our head out of the sand. However a start was the HST vote where people pushed back and won only to loose which really demonstrates just how much Government is disconected from the people, its not about us anymore and won’t be unless we open our eyes to the fact people have the power jsut can’t find the time to use it effectivly.

Eagleone: “Essentially says BC shouldn’t have a say in the Gateway project and that her government is doing nothing to reach their own conclusions on the matter.”

One thing that Christy Clark, Adrian Dix, etc. realize is that there’s nothing to be gained by trying to say that BC can stop the pipeline. The pipeline falls under federal jurisdiction.

“However a start was the HST vote…”

Too bad the desire to push back resulted in axing better tax policy. Pushing back absent good thinking simply makes us worse off.

Ready to get your Easter goose? Gas prices shooting up across the country.
Sure, lets ship that bitumen to China.

OneDemo: “Sure, lets ship that bitumen to China.”

You say that as if gas prices wouldn’t be going up otherwise. Rest assured, they would, and they will continue to rise regardless.

ben

I feel that the pipeline should not be run through our province for nothing as we take all the risk and damage when a spill occurs. As well we do not want the oil tankers in our coastal waters, what a lot of damage that would create for our pristine fishing areas. I think Christie should go back to hunting cariboo with Sarah.

Miles ahead of your statement of the obvious, Johnny. Looking long term here.

Gas in Phoenix right now about a buck a liter.
More for gas, more for groceries, more for booze, higher home prices, more for books, more for shoes, more for clothes, and higher taxes all brought to you courtesy of the provincial and federal gov’t’s.

What’s a tar sand?

Wasn’t Tar Sand a fictional character by Edgar Rice Burroughs? With a side kick chimp named Cheetah…

I’m not even going to go there with who’s the Cheetah… they’re all cheating us every way they can.

Oh mighty Pylot, you’ve been indoors w-a-y too long. Funny stuff, tho.

“oil sands” is a gentler word thought up by the oil industry to try to placate the environmental movement somewhat. But it is tar anyway you look at it, the worst form of oil there is in the world and only in Canada do we have our politicians who want to move it over 1200 lakes and rivers. Always take the easy way out, thats the political mantra in this country.

Someone better tell all those oil companies in Northern Alberta they’re only going to find tar up there. lol.

so many uninformed experts here.

The HST never was and never will be a better tax policy for the average citizen. It would be the beginning of the end. The Government for all intents and purposes would increase it over the years until we ended up paying 23 to 25 percent like they do in Europe.

The people in BC (at least the 750,000) who got rid of this slimy tax should take the credit for keeping this tax at bay.

Those people who hitch hike on the back of regular tax payers, and earn their living on tax dollars, may not be happy with this tax going, however thats life.

The HST was the number one issue that got rid of Gordon Campbell, Colin Hansen, and basically destroyed the Liberal Party in BC. This did not need to happen if Campbell and his cronies would have listened to the people instead of ramming s..t down our throats on a regular basis.

People can cry the blues all they want about the NDP forming the next Government, however its time they woke up and smelled the flowers. The NDP may very well win the next election, but it will be because the Liberals totally screwed up over the past 9 years, and are still screwing up to-day.

Who the hell do they think they are, taking 2 1/2 years to get rid of the HST so they can collect all the revenue possible, and give a $2 Billion tax break to their Corporate buddies.

We are not fools. I am a little sick and tired of hearing that people who voted to get rid of the HST are considered stupid, but those (fools,knaves, and imbeciles) who voted to keep it are smart. Those who voted to keep the tax, were nothing more than a bunch of selfish people who wanted the benefits of the tax paid by others.

I for one will not support the Liberals under their present make up. If Christy would have made an honest effort to get rid of the tax, and if she had got rid of some of the condecending blow hards that surround her, and had given Falcon his walking papers, things might have been different. As it is, if we re-elect this bunch of glad handers, we will get another 4 years of incompetent Government.

Goodbye Christy, Goodbye. Call again when you are your own person, and are capable of doing something besides propaganda, and smiling.

The referendum on the HST has sent a strong message to Government that the days of wasting money are coming to an end.

The Alternative Approval Process, presently taking place in Prince George is as much about Government waste, and spending, as it is about a dike. People have had it with Governments spending billions of dollars on stupid projects, when they cannot solve the problem of decaying infrastructure, and line ups at emergency wards, or shortages of Doctors, or declining enrolments in our very expensive University, etc; etc; etc;

Time for them to earn their money, or hit the road.

I hated the HST, but voting to go back to the archaic PST/GST was/is just plain stupid.

Sorry teachers, we have no money for raises, we’re trying to pay back $600M to the federal gov’t. Come back another time.

“I hated the HST, but voting to go back to the archaio PST/GST was/is just plain stupid.”

I think like Palopu, that the HST was a tax break for the rich at the expense of most, and was not a good overall tax.

The PST/GST tax probably is archiac as JohnnyBelt has stated.

As far as the referendum to rid BC of the HST in favour of the old system, I do not think it was stupid at all. The people were given one choice on the referendum and it was HST or the old system. The people had to make the choice back to the old system to send a message to this government that ramming sh%t down our throats doesn’t fly.

Perhaps the PST/GST is archaic. Having the people sending a message to government that the HST is not what we want to replace an archaic tax system, does not mean this or any government can’t come up with a tax system that is fair and not archaic. Surely these people who get elected to these high paying pension rich jobs in Victoria can think of something better.

As far as the $600M back to the feds for scapping the HST. It is small change for a government that doesn’t know the difference between $400M and $2.4B deficit. Or a government that spends $600M on a roof. Or a government that sells a whole railroad for $900M. Or a government that spends $2.0B on a bridge. Or a government that spends $1.0B on a convention center. A government that has more fast ferry spending sprees than a Bush government with a war fetish. Or was that German ferries?

No, people voted against the HST because they hated the way the tax was brought in. They hate(d) the current government. It wasn’t about whether the HST was good tax policy, it was about punishing the government. Even the NDP waffled on the question of whether they’d recind the HST when and if they got into power.

What would we be paying now if we kept the HST? 11%? 10%? We really are our own worst enemies sometimes.

The HST was never revenue neutral as stated by the Lieberals. In order for it to be revenue neutral and give corporations a tax break the money had to come from somewhere and that somewhere was the pockets of the citizens of BC in the form of higher taxes. Lost in the equation is the extra 5% collected on private auto sales. Let’s see how this tax grab settles out after the HST is gone.
As it turned out the HST took in far more dollars than even the Lieberals could imagine and this is one of the prime reasons it is taking 2 1/2 years to rid ourselves of the HST.

“What would we be paying now if we kept the HST? 11%? 10%? We really are our own worst enemies sometimes.”

Come on JohnnyBelt, get a grip, we are still paying HST at a 12% rate, and this BC Liberal government can’t balance the books at that. Do you really think the HST would go down, especially under this government? Look at every jurisdiction worldwide where this tax has been imposed, the tax increases.

As far as the NDP not wanting to recind the tax, think back to the GST it was promised to be removed and never was. Once a tax has been implimented no government will remove it.

Why people voted against it, I voted it out because I thought it was a tax shift to the common taxpayer.
A tax such as the HST would be hard on the economy long term, as the people (customers) would have even less money to spend at businesses. Small and medium sized businesses are the true economy growers. With less money being spent at businesses businesses would then be back at the public trough asking for even more tax breaks to spur the economy. This in turn would have the government increase the HST, or cut services, to make up the difference in the tax revenue lost to business, again taking more money out of the hands of the tax payer (customers).

Taxing or reducing services to the customer to spur business in my opinion bites the hand that feeds you.

“Do you really think the HST would go down, especially under this government?”

Actually, that is exactly what would have happened if BC voted to keep the HST. The proposal was for a 1% drop per year for two years… only if BC voted to keep the HST. Since that didn’t happen, well…

“Why people voted against it, I voted it out because I thought it was a tax shift to the common taxpayer.”

The taxpayer always pays in the end. You can have the tax visible or hidden. Which do you prefer?

“The proposal was for a 1% drop per year for two years…”

After 11 years of coruption and blatant lies, and you still believe everything this BC Liberal government spouts out of their lying mouths. Remember a $400 million deficit, that quickly turned into a $2.4 billion deficit after they won an election largely based on this lie. JohnnyBelt, you are not that gullible!

I prefer a tax that everyone pays, no exceptions! I think that is possible, it only takes someone elected to office that is a true visionary and doesn’t think there is only one option for tax policy.

Prove to me that the Liberals were lying about the HST tax decrease. That’s just an emotional argument based on your general hatred, not based on anything.

I haven’t even mentioned the costs that every business has to pay to switch their respective systems back to the PST/GST.

Who do you think ultimately will pay those costs? Those will be downloaded onto their customers. That’s right, you and me.

For someone with the username ‘Taxed Out’, your counter-intuitive arguments clearly indicate that you have more money to pay more taxes. Maybe ‘Taxed Out’ is supposed be ironic?

My username is irrelevant, I could care less why you call yourself JohnnyBelt.

As far as proof, past history is a good indicator of what is to come. You yourself JohnnyBelt, use past history on almost all your posts to discredit anything NDP.
Fool me once- shame on you, fool me twice- shame on me.

As for business to switch everything back, perhaps the BC Liberals should have thought about these things when the HST appeared on their radar.

Taxes may be passed on to the customer in the form of higher prices. I also think like in the argument for the HST, that competition would prevail and free enterprize would win out. Just as the argument that people would have a choice in a user pay tax (HST) to reduce their taxes by watching what they consume. People would then have a choice on which business they thought were competitive as far as business’ passing along tax costs.

If this system was so wonderful explain to me why our province cannot balance a budget. We are still paying HST at 12%, commodity prices are high, so all our exports are running better than they have in generations. Anyone who wants to work is. Why is our government short of revenue, JohnnyBelt?

“You yourself JohnnyBelt, use past history on almost all your posts to discredit anything NDP. “

I might also observe that your posts do everything to discredit everything Liberal. How is that any different?

I certainly do not say everything has been perfect, but what does the NDP bring to the table, other than the fact they’re ‘not Liberal’? I have seen a lot of expensive promises and criticism from the NDP and their supporters, not much else.

Maybe their plan is to put us back into ‘have not’ status so we can go back to receiving Federal transfer payments. If they’re going to do that, I wish someone would just come out and say it.

I wasn’t the one who stated I needed proof to discredit a political ideology, that was you, JohnnyBelt. Only to use past history to add credit to your posts.
No where did I say the NDP had the answers, no where have I beat the NDP drum in any of these posts, all I asked in the last post was why the BC Liberals cannot balance the budget?

I discredit this Liberal government because they are, have been, and seem to continue to be corupt and incompetant. I will not give this BC Liberal government another chance. However as for future BC Liberal governments that waits to be seen, a clean house of present BC Liberal MLA’s need to be flushed. You JohnnyBelt paint the NDP with the same brush you have had no matter what policies or people are in place. Eyes wide Shut!

That’s the thing about many people who beat their chests and proclaim they are ‘anti-Liberal’. They almost never say who they support.

What party’s ideologies do you support? Who do you vote for? Do you even vote?

Again you avoid the questions and attack the poster, JohnnyBelt.

Like a good BC Liberal, nothing to say, zero answers, attack the source of the question.

I apologize. I wasn’t aware that I had to answer all of your questions and comments to your complete and full satisfaction.

I notice that while you were chiding me in your last post, you nicely sidestepped my questions as well. Well played sir!

If you are going to engage on a debate on these threads JohnnyBelt, at least follow the debate. Deflecting the debate to a personal attack on whatever you think I may mark on a ballot is childish.

You have made claims on many posts on Opinion 250 that the HST was a great tax. When I question you today as to why the BC Liberals can’t balance the budget, you have nothing to say and resort to attacking the poster. Surely a great defender of the BC Liberal HST must have something to enlighten us as to why after it has been in operation this long, it appears to be a failure to fill Victoria’s bank account.

For some reason, you seem to think that it’s my job to convince you of something you will never be convinced of.

At the end of the day, I am not the least bit interested in whether you agree with me or not. I can only put my opinion out there, as you have done.

I guess that’s your way of saying “uncle”, JohnnyBelt.

lol. You must be a hoot at parties.

The HST was supposed to create jobs. The government wouldn’t lie to me would they? I’m still waiting.

JohnnyBelt, also ignores the fact the BC is an exporting Province. The idea that we would pay this tax one way or the other when we buy a product is of course pure horse ….

No one in BC buys lumber, pulp or paper, or coal or iron ore, or pellets, or wheat, or any other products that are exported. Certainly not in any volume. So the costs of producing these products were paid for by the consumers in other Countries, and by the producers in BC.

The people who really benefit from the HST are big business, and corporations, as they can now export the same products, however under the HST they get their HST rebated, because if you are an exporting business you get an HST credit for your inputs. Exporting companies in BC do not pay ONE CENT in HST because they get credit for their exports that always exceed their inputs.

With the elimination of the PST,Big business and Corporations stand to save $2 Billion per year with the implementation of the HST. The Liberal Government brought in the HST to give these people a tax break, and by applying this tax to the 100 or so items that previously were exempt from the GST, they were able to maintain their revenue stream.

In other words consumers are now paying the $2 Billion a year that was once paid by these huge exporting corporations. Thats why the tax **sucks**. And thats why it was defeated.

The Liberals tried to pull the same BS with the HST, that Mulrooney pulled with the GST back in the 90’s, when he eliminated the manufacturers tax of 13% to save exporting companies billions, and implemented the GST to have consumers pay the shortfall.

The HST was never a tax as a replacement for the PST for small business. It was a huge tax shift to consumers from Corporations.

Anyone who falls for the BS that it is a better tax, needs to ask this simple question. Better for who?? The corporations who save billions on the tax, or the consumers who pay billions because of it.

When you have a two party system, your options are limited. Hopefully in the next election we will have three of four options, plus some independents, that way we could send a strong message to both the Liberals and the NDP, that the game is over. The gravy train has pulled into the station. You either become honest, and fiscally responsible, or we kick your butt out of Government.

Have a nice day.

“JohnnyBelt, also ignores the fact the BC is an exporting Province. The idea that we would pay this tax one way or the other when we buy a product is of course pure horse ….”

And to think that we don’t all pay in the end in true fantasy. Palopu, you fell for Vanderzalm’s BS, just like a lot of people in this province.

Don’t make me make you say “uncle” again, JohnnyBelt!

Taxed Out, I have already acknowledged that you are a lost cause and completely hopeless. Not sure how else you want to put it.

More on Vanderzalm, think about it for a second. This was a guy who was the least trusted and most despised guy in BC when he left politics. Then, he surfaces 20 some odd years later and everyone listens to him! Go figure…

And how is this dispisal of Vanderzalm different from the dispisal of Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark that you so blindly follow over the political cliff, JohnnyBelt?

And yet you listen to them! Go figure…

Think about that for a second, JohnnyBelt!

Vander Zalm saved us from having an NDP government in 1986. There wasn’t ONE of the other contenders for the so-called ‘Social Credit’ Party’s leadership then who could have done that. Certainly not Grace McCarthy, nor Brian Smith, nor any of the other ‘back-stabbers’ he put into his Cabinet who wanted the top job, but had about as much appeal with the voters as Gordon Campbell did later.

Why? Because the core philosophy of the BC Liberal crowd is rotten to the core. Same as is that of the NDP, only they spread the take from their extortions a little more broadly than the Party of unmitigated personal greed is wont to do.

People listened to Vander Zalm on the HST because he was RIGHT! That tax was a shift from the PST being collected as a component of price of our exports paid by foreigners who receive them. Onto the backs of BC citizens who were working to produce those exports in the hopes of having the ‘good life’ here. The ONLY beneficiary of the HST is the banking system. By improving the rate of corporate profit, from which the principal of any business’s bank loans are amortise, the Banks are enable to make MORE loans.

A lovely, but eventually self-defeating, gift from a guy who sell his soul to be a global groupie of High Finance. Thank God people DID have enough sense to listen to Bill Vander Zalm, and that he was willing and able to take up the cause on our behalf. We owe him a great debt of gratitute, and if anyone should get the Order of BC it is he.

Taxed: “And how is this dispisal of Vanderzalm different from the dispisal of Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark that you so blindly follow over the political cliff, JohnnyBelt? “

I didn’t say it was.

Why do you assume that I am a BC Liberal? Yes, I tend to vote for the right of center parties. I’m looking at the Conservatives right now.

I’m still waiting to hear you publicly declare your love for the NDP, but you might be a little embarrassed to admit that. It’s understandable.

Not only that, but the whole FightHST campaign showed how people who may differ in their politics in many other areas can come together in common cause against a totally unjust tax imposed by a confirmed liar to further the nefarious purposes of a monopolising elite.

When Vander Zalm came around to speak at various public meetings throughout the Province there was a whole cross section of the populace that came out to listen. People who would never turn out to listen to the photo-op sessions that pass for public meetings when the Premier or Opposition Leader want to show they’re connecting with the people.

Many, probably most, were people who would never elect Bill Vander Zalm to anything, ever again, (if they’d ever even been a supporter of his before). Yet they realised what he was saying on this issue was absolutely correct.

Other speakers, Chris Delaney, and Bill Tielman, and others, were well received when they spoke. But Vander Zalm was speaking as a private citizen who had no other political agenda to advance aside from the cause at hand ~ scrapping the HST ~ and the audience responded to that with the greatest enthusiasm.

That whole process gave new hope that there is still a chance for genuine democracy yet here in BC. We’re not there yet; we’re still being victimised by an extortionate government; but either that tax will end in a meaningful way, or the pretext that we have any semblence of political democracy left will be laid bare as a complete falsehood.

Your double standard is similar to another famous right wing fanatic in Mitt Romney, JohnnyBelt!

“I didn’t say it was.”

Clearly you said it was when you asked for proof of the BC Liberals lying prior to the 2009 election. Whether you say it or not your post on following Gordon and Christy while chastising others for following Bill V clearly shows whether you say it or not, you are a blind follower, JohnnyBelt! DOUBLE STANDARD!!!

Poor BC Conservatives. Lets hope they have enough sense to realise they have to be something more than the BC Liberals under a different name if we’re ever going to get decent government here in BC.

Coalitions of the ‘right’ are great if there’s a core philosophy that posits more than staged retreat from the policies of the ‘left’, while the insiders are pocketing as much of the loot that can be garnered before the show’s over.

We’ve largely had that ever since the old BC Social Credit League of WAC Bennett’s day finally fell, and was subject to a reverse takeover by most of the then BC Liberal caucus. Re-emerging as the BC Social Credit ‘Party’ ~ something completely antithetical to the original concepts of ‘Social Credit’. Which was to be a government for the greater benefit of ALL the people, not some PART of them.

It showed all through Bill Bennett’s time in office, with a few notable, but short lived, exceptions. And they, (the BRIC share distribution, and a low interest home mortgage scheme, to name two), were carried out in a manner that now seems as if they were designed to highlight their shortcomings.

It really showed near the end of his tenure, when he launched into a mindless ‘Austerity’ Program that ended up costing this Province far more indirectly than it ever saved, or enabled any Budget to be ‘balanced’.

The BC Liberals, back under their true moniker, have NEVER been a government for ALL the people. Any more than the NDP ever has. Perhaps the-up-and-coming BC Conservatives can learn from the others’ mistakes. So far I’ve seen little evidence they can, but who knows, maybe we’ll get lucky.

“Clearly you said it was when you asked for proof of the BC Liberals lying prior to the 2009 election.”

Wrong wrong wrong. I asked you for proof that the Liberals were lying about the 2% HST reduction.

Clearly you have a comprehension problem which makes it impossible to have a rational debate. It’s probably best to stop posting, you’re embarrassing yourself.

You asked for proof to prove the BC Liberals were lying, JohnnyBelt, but hearsay and your own one dimentionable opinion are good enough anti-NDP.

Seems pretty DOUBLE STANDARD to me!

Rational debate, give me a break, JohnnyBelt, other posters far more educated than I on the subject of HST have posted and they sure are not supporting your “I love the BC Liberals” love affair.