If we are not to have opinions and only facts, then one big fact is that the oil industry has stated publicly they want this pipeline to up the price for Canadian crude not only on the world markets, but at home as well tied to the world markets.

So this proposed project is not about bringing down fuel costs for Canadians, as clearly stated fact it is about inflation.

Enbridge will argue we will benefit from the inflation of oil prices through increased royalties and extraction related expenditures… this in theory trickles down they will tell us.

Facts are the Canadian dollar is heavily tied to the price of oil. Increasing the price of oil not only robs the rest of the economy from its competitive advantage, but it also increases the value of the Canadian dollar making Canadian manufacturing uncompetitive due to monetary inflation up-pricing Canadian manufactured goods out of business.

So one look at the collateral damage for a pipeline to Asia… the forest industry for example will have higher fuel costs, and have to sell lumber at a higher dollar… solution ship the raw logs to China and have them process the logs to lumber with a fixed low value currency using subsidized fuel and slave labor rates… the big banks still make their profits and recognize their profits as Canadian GDP… increasingly GDP is made up of finance and not real world main street… so long as GDP increases through resource extraction and off shoring we are told Canada is a winner… one day Canadians will find out we are a source of raw materials and have no other economy to speak of, and when we look back it will be projects like Enbridge Gateway that set the Canadian economy on this course of harvesting the value added economy to support the resource extraction economy. Canadians will be beggers and our future will be tied to the whims of other countries.

IMHO… to say nothing of the effects on other industries like tourism… or god forbid we do have a major coastal spill… and yet we have a premier who says she is waiting for others to tell her the implications and refuses to have the province get involved in getting its own answers… staling knowing full well the review process will carry over past the next provincial election… completely disingenuous on the most important issue facing BC today… an epic fail on the issue by a government that is an epic fail of a government full of half truths and hidden agenda’s for their corporate campaign donors.

Having our own review would be most welcome and it would ensure that we from the apposing view is heard. Such an important thing that is threatening our existance and our enviroment requires all due dilligence. Knowing that Enbridge has tried to cover up its’ spills. Enbridge tried to negate its’ responsability for the spills in US pipelines. Cleaning up such a spill is totally useless because of the consistancy of the bitumen or raw product. There is a greater need for refineries in Canada and pipelines to the east than a pipeline going through our boreal forest and watersheds. Fifty percent of the province would be a total lie. Enbridge knows that and so does the Cristy Clark liberals. Being that the people affected come from the north I believe the people of the north should vote on this. Not a bunch of southerners who do not have to deal with a spill.

Did they pull a hat out of a rabbit??is not going to happen…

If it’s built, put a tax on every litre that goes through it. And use the full proceeds to rebate British Columbians what we pay for all the fuels now subject to Carbon Tax. If it’s built, ALL the ‘costs’ of everything here in BC will rise. Not just because the oil companies won’t want to sell fuel here cheaper than they could get in “world price”, but because there will be a renewed inflation (which always comes first under the guise of prosperity) during its construction. Those higher prices will remain after the project is finished, and a rebate paid to each and every British Columbian on every litre of fuel consumed here is only fair recompense.

Gee, another anti-pipeline story for the public to spout their rhetoric on. What a surprise.

The world price will give us more money for the oil. Right now the US pays less than what we would normaly get as they are our only big market. When this pipeline and Kindermorgans go in Canada will get a much better return.

BC should be negotiating for a decent return of oil and gas passing threw our province.

Carbon tax, there is no scientific proof on how much effect if any C02 has on climate. After hundreds of billions spent, no proof.

I am not a pollster and my guess about the support for Enbridge is base on reading news articles and blogs with their associated comments. I see a support of about 20% for Enbridge from my reading. A completely unscientific and unverifiable conclusion, I recognize.

I am not a pollster and my guess about the support for Enbridge is based on reading news articles and blogs with their associated comments. I see a support of about 20% for Enbridge from my reading. A completely unscientific and unverifiable conclusion, I recognize.

Gee, another anti-pipeline story for Johnnyboy to worry about. Afraid your livlihood is in jeopardy? You ever wonder why the stories are anti-enbridge? Ever get the feeling the majority of the people in BC don’t want it? I listened to that Meisner program, and if ever there was a dismissive, holier than thou @sshole who thinks they should be able to do as they please in someone elses backyard, it is enbridge. They are no different than the oil/gas drillers in Alberta who have ruined farmers livlihoods for years and years with thier slogan “just trust me, it is going to be good for you”. Thier is only ONE faction here who makes enough to run the risk and that is the oil/gas corporations, no one else.

Am I mistaken or did we not hear this same LIE just a few weeks ago? What an outright LIE. And they think people here are stupid enough to believe this? The protess are coming and it is gonna be fun. Real soon.

You have your right to your opinion Johnnyboy, but instead of actually proving or stating why it is going to be good for the average person in Canada and more particularly, the average person in BC, all you can do is come on here and slag anyone who doesn’t see it the way you do. You’ve read the reasons from people why they are against it, but just like enbridge, you dismiss it out of hand as fear mongering. But, you could be right, afterall, it’s not like enbridge has a history of oil spills or anything, and those few times it has happened they certainly did get on it right away and clean it up as best they could. Of course we should believe everything they say, right?

WE all remember Clark’s position on the HST and trying to stick it to the people of BC. All the gov’t dollars wasted on stick people advertising.
I guess this time she figures if she keeps her mouth shut no one can blame her for a pipeline in our backyard.

not happening at all!

At Kitimat, supersized tankers would carry toxic, diluted bitumen through Hecate Strait. Each year more than 2,000 would travel through narrow fjords in some of the world’s most treacherous seas. Hecate Strait is far away from rescue equipment in an oil spill event; an area of considerable beauty and ecological importance and home of the Kodey(?spelling) bears, whose sanctuary the tankers would pass directly. A current moratorium on oil tanker traffic has been in place for decades!
Former Deputy Minister, Harry Swain, quoted in the Globe and Mail: “Moving tankers through 300 km of perilous navigation in highly energetic tidal conditions is a bad idea.” Environment Canada ranks it – “the most dangerous body of water in the world.”
“It is dangerous, to say the least,” says Dexter Wagner, avid sailor. “Prior problems should convince any reasonable person this is an insane route to take.”

There’s plenty of information out there for those who want to educate themselves. I fully realize nobody wants to do that. They want the media to feed them their opinions.

But, I have directed you to the Northern Gateway site a few times, but you don’t want to believe anything on there. Not much else I can do. No, I don’t work for Enbridge, nor am I connected to the project in any way.

The ‘no’ side is generally intolerant of anyone who might be supportive… they would prefer anyone who supports the project to shut up. Good luck with that.

Is the Joint Review Panel also going to look at other places Enbridge has pipelines, speak to the people there and look at their history of spill cleanups, their claim of taking full responsibility and then their legal wranglings to wiggle out of them? They leave a large wake of polluted land behind them and leave the ‘people’ with destruction Enbridge is not ‘legally’ bound to restore.
They would rather fight off anyone who says it is their duty, than to just do proper clean up.
Johnny, where do you see actual benefit for the people of B.C. in all of this??

The Exxon Valdes spill is STILL not properly restored after how many years?

“They are no different than the oil/gas drillers in Alberta who have ruined farmers livelihoods for years” Did some goose hunting in northern Alberta, lots of pumping and drilling on farmers land. Farmers we talked to for permission to hunt on their land seemed happy with the extra income from these sites.

Ships have been traveling Douglas channel for decades, nothing new there.

Just the facts, not emotional rhetoric.

You want facts, Enbridge have been caught lying their face off, cheating, hiding oil under sand, under canvas, under everything, and they have hundreds of lawyers beating down financially those whom had their land and water poisoned..nuff said, enjoy the reads.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2012/01/british-colubias-beautiful-nirthern.html

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2012/01/enbridge-will-kill-british-columbia.html

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2012/01/enbridge-northern-gateway-pipeline-will.html

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2011/12/no-to-enbridge-christmas-baby-edition.html

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2012/01/stephen-harper-assists-in-environmental.html

build the pipe line.

I do believe they will get there oil to port one pipeline or another in BC. The sad part is BC will get very little economic benefit the people and provincial government of BC have little or no power to do anything about it. Ottawa can push these projects threw saying it is of the best interest of Canada and since the west votes last and the fed election is generally decided before our votes are even counted Ottawa just laughs at us. I have heard people say BC should charge a tax, or get a large percentage of oil royalty Alberta gets for shipping the oil across BC, or how about having them build a few new refineries in BC to create a few jobs? All good idea but with little or no say in the matter we will sadly get nothing but a scare across the landscape and all the risk that goes with it. Maybe we need to play the separatism card like Quebec does then we could have complete control over what happens in this Province.

Criminal, does the Powell River Persuader pay you for every link you post on here? If so, you must be rich.

seamutt: “Just the facts, not emotional rhetoric.”

Exactly. I would love to see that angle for a change…

JohnnyBelt: Gee, another anti-pipeline story….
You’re a funny guy John. If you stopped to actually read the story you would notice it is the Enbridge guy who is doing the talking. Is he anti-pipeline too? Funny guy John

JohnnyBelt -“Criminal, does the Powell River Persuader pay you for every link you post on here? If so, you must be rich.”

Not as rich as the guy who sells him the aluminum for his foil hat.

Johnny Belt wrote: “There’s plenty of information out there for those who want to educate themselves. I fully realize nobody wants to do that. They want the media to feed them their opinions.”

That is being rather presumptuous. If you wrote that there are people out there who don’t care one way or another, I would agree with you.

To say nobody wants to educate themselves is a lot of BS. You know that there are some people who do want to educate themselves. Not only that, but there are people out there who want to educate themselves by hearing both sides of the project. And after they finish that, some will even want to educate themselves about 3 or so other variations.

And, there are even people who know where they will be able to source opinions from the left and opinions from the right and opinions from the middle.

So, I have read Enbridge’s information. I have also read information from other sources. I have informed myself and will hopefully shortly be getting even more informed in a fashion which does not deal with reading but will be direct discussions with those closest to the project.

In the meantime, here is a site from the Pembina Institute which opposed the pipline, and a CBC report which provides a few issues from both sides of the fence.

http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/pipelinetonowhere-final-withcover.pdf

[url]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/01/10/f-northern-gateway-pipeline.html%5B/url%5D

Our forest products are rated by users in the USA and Canada on how well the process addresses sustainability of manufacturing and the benefit to the community. Those which pass the audit are given the seal of approval.

The same may yet happen with gasoline.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/02/22/oilsands-european-union-vote.html

Hello Johnny, how`s the wife, kids, you do realize that your grandchildren won`t be using oil..Finite resources, that`s a fact..

Here`s the financial argument, as a petro-state, high dollar Canadian manufacturers will bleed jobs and be forced into slave wages to compete..

So for a few people to make $billions millions will pay the financial price.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/04/11/Robyn-Allan-Report/

And of course there is the Energy return on investment(EROI)argument..

Tar sand extraction(an exercise in futility)..3 barrels of oil energy to recover 1 barrel..

There is now evidence pointing to negative energy, meaning Alberta tar oil is a ponzi scheme..

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/01/12/HughesReport/

Enjoy the weekend Johnny, drive to the river, dangle your toes, breathe in the fresh air and listen to nature..

Maybe something will resonate.

Cheers

Those who are constantly attacking the no side are those who will benefit financially from the pipeline project.

Anyone connected to the belting industry will definately benefit from it.

577,The Unluckiest Number,Ten years out.

The Enbridge pipeline disaster.

The 10 year anniversary next month of the Bengal Lion Star tragedy and I had to come to ground zero to see for myself, perhaps it was a mistake to come here, from what I have seen i`m way too angry to cry and too sad for fury, in fact I almost have that peaceful easy feeling.

How I miss my dad`s analytical explanation and mom`s hope springs eternal talks, yet I fear that neither parent could explain away this tragedy, 10 years later, 10 years of black death extending it`s reach.

Looking around by boat off Banks island, one mile from ground zero the feeling is of the surreal, trees are still green but any ocean life or bird activity is eerily quiet, no salmon fry swimming , no squawking gulls just silence, for tens of miles in every direction the great kelp forests are gone, who gave us permission to gamble and lose what we didn`t own and what we could never replace, Fish lake was a horrid environmental mistake, imagine deliberately destroying a huge natural watershed for trinkets of gold, thousands of dead migrating birds, a poisonous lake devoid of life, how many species of frogs, insects still get near or in the lake only to perish or leave half dead, but as horrible as the deliberate execution of Fish lake was the scale of the Bengal Lion Star oil spill off Banks island in Hecate Strait is beyond compare, how is it that my only terms of reference in attempting to describe this site is that of dead zones, in a way its very peaceful, no eternal battle for life here, those days are long gone.

Only if I could turn back the clock, why did it happen, the Bengal Lion Star should not have went out, a deep pacific low moving in, was the Captain pressured to leave, why why why, even with two large commercial tug boats assisting wasn`t going to stop the wreck, maybe if there were extra support tugs who knows but when lead tug boat Kitimat queen capsized in heavy seas nothing was going to stop the massive oil carrier from grounding on White jagged rocks that stormy (March 14, 2016) night, 30 – 40 ft high waves capped with fury pounded the Bengal Lion Star on unforgiving rocks, section after section burst like watermelons, spewing millions of gallons of tar sand oil, the 3rd largest oil spill in the world, maybe if the oil containment teams had gotten out here sooner but with storm force winds blowing for 2 days along with extreme high – low tides, my god, oil sprayed the shore line high on exposed rocks and layered thick into the lowest tidal zones, mountains of Alberta crude flowing in deep water, who could imagine the oil would have spread 50 miles in different directions over 2 days, coves, bays, narrow channels coated in black death, as far as I can look in any direction this paradise is dead, who knows what the bird count will ultimately be, millions of direct bird deaths with millions more that died in subsequent migrations, birds all along the coast found dead, birds with clear signs of contact with heavy oil, the engine in this migration route blasted with syncrude, indeed, the scale of the Bengal Lion Star oil spill can`t be measured in millions of oiled birds or the 40 distinct salmon runs that were decimated and or all of BC`a wild salmon teetering on extinction, the sea lions, otters, coastal bears, eagles, ferrets, no salmon spawns led one extinction into another, we broke nature`s bond, too many dead for one`s heart to count, oil stained carcasses feed other animals that ultimately die and black oil`s death grip reaches on and on, only with time, generational time, perhaps millenia before this area recovers, can it recover, and for what, to spill another tanker of crude.

I don`t what is harder to take, the fragile existence of a few northern runs of salmon and southern Sockeye, it`s almost like the cycle of life has been thrown out, this large swath of nature, thousands of square miles destroyed forever, well at least for my lifetime, perhaps 6 or 7 generations before this area will become fertile again but with continued oil tanker traffic when will black death strike again, even if the shell fish recover, even if herring spawns again, the Orca will never be seen again, the birthing females were first to die then the small adolescent Orca perished, 2 adult males are all that is left of the species, maybe mankind should have figured out how to start a new Orca pod before destroying the only one we had, we can take life away in a moment for all time, why didn`t we learn from the Valdez disaster, there is no going back, First Nations have mourned, the northern and island tourism industry has been decimated, maybe I should have fought harder against the National review 15 years ago, 10 years out from the disaster and Hecate Strait still lay mortally wounded, you can still smell crude oil, I can only think of Charlton Heston`s Planet of the Apes movie when he sees New York`s Statue of Liberty and realizes that it was mankind himself that burned mother nature, this area is no longer worth fighting for, top scientists are mostly in agreement that outside of decades of time there is nothing on scale that can be done to remediate the damage.

It appears the only ones left fighting about the Bengal Lion Star are the litigants, where have we seen this picture before, the Valdez law suit still lingers unpaid(40 years later), the Liberian registered Bengal Lion Star oil tanker had but minimum insurance, $200 million dollars yet the insurance has been contested, Bengal Lion Star hadn`t paid premiums in 2 years, Honshu commercial carrier insurance company have claimed bankruptcy, between the Province and Ottawa more than $4.9 billion has been spent on clean-up and species mitigation, First Nations, affected business`s and local town`s folk have law suits filed worth more than $10 billion dollars, everyone sueing and litigating for compensation on something no one can return, Enbridge pipeline inc washes their hands of any responsibility, Shell, Exxon Mobile and the Chinese petroleum company are all pointing fingers at each other, owners of the Bengal Lion Star blame the escort tug company, tug company blames act of god and file for bankruptcy, how long will these trials go on and who will ultimately pay, what price, what price to return nature to the way it was, all this pain to secure dirty Alberta syncrude to China, oil use falls for the last 7 years, a dying product needing desperate tyrants, we sold out nature on British Columbian`s wild west coast for a handful of pesos, how can ancient dregs of plants take so much away from present and future life cycles, I can`t shed tears anymore, my life, my personal battles, millions of wasted words warning of potential harm or should I say risk management, I `m too old to repeat the warnings and too tired to muster passion, the battle for Haida Gwaii is over.

Despite the First Nation`s blockade attempting to stop the very first oil tanker, 8 First Nations elders gave their life that day, not enough pressure to stop the Vessel, Oil tanker Shell diamond and it`s Canadian naval escort, dugout canoe versus high-speed frigate, symbolic but futile, the time to stop Enbridge was before it started, certainly native voices on opening day weren`t going to stop it, you can`t stop $4billion dollars spent, never the less January 13/2014 that was first super tanker to leave Kitimat, thousands of small protest vessels, even Greenpeace and Suzuki foundation concentrated efforts couldn`t stop the Federal Conservatives and the Campbell Liberal administration from rubber stamping this project from the git-go, proceeding at full speed, no matter how much evidence anti pipeline opponents, scientists, biologist, enviro`s put forward they were all but ignored, why didn`t the NDP government stop the completion of Enbridge after they were elected in 2013, was the fix in, too much money invested to stop, too big to fail, needed economic growth, jobs jobs jobs, yes I heard everyone of those excuses justifying the completion of Enbridge, what jobs, imported foreign workers building the pipeline and 12 permanent after construction jobs, was it worth it.

Madness, I knew something really big would happen, not the 5000 barrels that spilt into the Skeena river, not the 50,000 barrels dumped at the port of Kitimat but something epic, mathematician’s also knew it was coming, not if a big spill would happen but when a spill would happen, I can still hear Gordon Campbell, Christy Clark talk about risk management, the best experts in the world say we can manage the risk, how come no one asked how do we manage armageddon, how do we clean up, how do we create more Orca, how do you bring back thousands of square miles from the dead, I wonder what Gordon Campbell would say, ex premier Adrian Dix stated regrets that the NDP didn`t do more to stop Enbridge, Gordon Campbell is long since dead, yes Gordon Muir Campbell I pass blame on to you and your complicit Cabinet, your legacy, Enbridge, bankrupt utilities, a dismal health care system, a dead central coast and slow dying life cycle, well, no one is listening to me, not the Governing federal Conservatives, not Premier Gordon Coons of the newly elected Refederation party, no, no one wants to listen to the left wing, after the BC Liberal led economic collapse, the seeds of P3s, IPPs and insider deals dominated, it didn`t matter who was Government so many bad deals were signed, how many can the court overturn, the extent of the economic damage that came to fruition, what happened, like the Spanish flu in 1919 that killed millions, no one talks about the harm Gordon Campbell`s corporate Government inflicted upon us, the extent of one way contracts that ate up every Provincial dollar and more, I can`t help but think back to our 2010 Olympics, the pride, the I am Canadian attitude, Super Natural British Columbia but just a few short years after the closing ceremonies we have poisoned interior lakes, lost countless wild salmon runs to fish farms and now the third largest oil spill in the world, a death blow to our BC Coast, a massive spill in our migration engine.

Just picture heaven covered in oil, and what hurts even more, the people of BC don`t seem to care anymore, in the latest public opinion poll by Ipsos Reid job creation and big industry are more important than the environment, 67% for jobs and 16% say protect the environment, it`s times like this when I stare across at Mc Caully island or look into Norway inlet, smell the oil, I see the end of the world being played out, there is no shoulder of comfort to lean on, no soothing hugs that can squelch my silent anger, 576 successful departures from Kitimat, 576 loaded oil tankers that safely managed the inside passage, risk management, reward versus risk, despite 5 years of cruise ships not plying the inside passage, despite the loss to tourism, despite a sterile ocean desert, despite the tiniest of recoveries on the outer edges of the spill zone, despite of everything tanker traffic is predicted to triple over the next 3 years, an insatiable Asian appetite for oil and now that paradise is lost there is nothing left to fight for and no reason to stop, perhaps other edens can be spared.

Number 577, no tears of anger, no screams of silence, nothing but….

“That peaceful easy feeling”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44A9iDQNrss

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2010/04/577the-unluckiest-numberten-years-out.html