How about the medical services premium increase, carbon tax. I am afraid Christy speaks with forked tongue.

Not to mention the defeated HST tax which we are all still paying, and will not be reimbursed for after it is gone for good…if it ever is.

I still don’t understand why they took the toll off of the Coquihalla highway. People were used to paying it. So what if the toll was to stop when the thing was paid for. Doesn’t the highway need maintenance? Repaving at some point and the cost of snow removal? Should of kept the toll on it IMHO. Now where does the money come from?

BUT hate to inform you but the HST was not a new tax it was only the GST and the PST that we were already paying combined. Were there a few more things we paid HST on that were except for PST yes, but regardless the money generated from this was going to have to come from somewhere. The HST was a users tax you chose to go out to a restaurant you chose to pay the tax all the food to make your own meal at home was still tax free. If we want to maintain government funded services at a certain level it is going to cost tax payers. I prefer user based taxation like point of purchase (HST), bridge/hwy tolls, regional gas tax, user pay fees (transit, campgrounds) increase as apposed to property or income tax increases.

Parts of the HST were, indeed, a new tax. As you noted, some things were exempt from GST+PST but subject to HST. Initially we were told this would be revenue neutral, but that was not true, and in the fist several months hundreds of millions of dollars was raised in addition to what would have been raised under the old GST+PST combination. Those hundreds of millions were a new tax.

Not only were they the proceeds of a new tax, they were in addition to amounts raised under the old tax, since the amount raised from the old GST+PST combination was still being raise. It still is, I might add, along with the new tax on items previously untaxed. How much extra has the continued imposition of the “cancelled” HST raised in comparison to the GST+PST combined since the voters ordered the provincial government to remove it? By that amount, whatever it is, we have been ripped off by the Liberals.

The taxes you prefer to have imposed are all user taxes. The fact is that they are all regressive taxes in that they make up a higher percentage of low income earners’ resources than other forms of taxation. They are thus unfair, since the burden on them is greater than on higher income earners. Nobody likes paying taxes, me included, but since they are a necessity in all societies, in one form or another, they should collected in a manner which imposes a relatively even burden (burden, not cost) on all components of our society whether poor, rich, corporations, individuals, families or whatever. A progressive, graduated system would meet this criterion.

The basic premise with toll roads is tyopically that if it is the only way to get from A to B, do not place a toll on it. However, if it is an alternate and improved way, then a toll will likely work.

For example. I would be willing to pay a buck to use a Quesnel bypass that would save me both time and gasoline.

I realize that Quesnel will likely not like that because they figure that they will not get business from the through traffic. I do not think that is their decision to make. I also do not think that the serendipidous purchases are all that great. If I need gas then or got hungry all of the sudden, or pick up a local newspaper, then I will get off the highway and do that.

If you want to see how that works in a small community, look at the density of gas stations, fast food outlets and motels that have grown up around one of the exits from the Coquihalla at Merritt. That is exactly what will happen in Quesnel as it has in other such communities. It is also what happened in PG many decades ago along the “bypass” … and is continuing to happen along HW16 West.

The business and business taxes will not be lost to the City. It will be relocated.

NoWay:”I still don’t understand why they took the toll off of the Coquihalla highway. People were used to paying it.”

It was paid off! People were hollering, screaming and whining and demanding that the toll NOT be continued.

The government listened.

It goes to show: Can’t please all of the people all of the time!

Carol James continuously dodged the question what the NDP would do about the HST. ALL governments LIKE taxes and they dislike lowering taxes! That goes for ALL of them, no exception. They always promise that they would be better managers than the ones they hope to replace. Once in – their wiser methods of management should result in more efficient government. The savings should filter down to the long suffering taxpayers! It never happens, no matter of what stripe they are!

However, now that we had the promised referendum on it I can’t believe that we still have the HST! It should have been gone the week after!

I suspect that Harper is putting up all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles in order to prolong the agony of the HST because he MUST always have it HIS way, no backtracking or reconsidering of anything is allowed.

It’s a form of punishment – what is known as *off to the woodshed!*

The HST is a tax on your spending, not only from what you’ve earned, but from what you’ve HAD TO BORROW. To live. In the manner that ‘society’ now dictates we shall live.

(Think of ‘Air Care’ in the lower mainland, where if your otherwise operable vehicle can not pass the emissions test it’s off the road. You need it for transportation to get to work? Too bad. Invest megabucks in shop fees to get it up to standard, if they can (and there’s no guarantee of that), or buy a new one. And that’s only one example of how people are progressively forced into debt to meet imposed requirements they all too often don’t have the incomes to meet.)

With average personal debt levels in Canada now at something like 153% of disposable incomes, and rising, it’s easy to see the attraction of the HST to “our” governments. It opens up a whole new area of takings for them to tap into through taxation.

And if you make the argument that “The money has to come from somewhere to fund all that government does for us”, think about it this way.

At least 5/12ths of the average Canadian’s gross income is given over to government in taxation of one form or another now. To provide, ostensibly, all the various and sundry things we think government should provide for us.

Governments, however, still run up debt.

So if we gave the other 7/12ths of our incomes to government, and said to those we’ve elected to run them, “Now do everything for us, you have ALL our incomes. And a lot of people seem to think you can do a better job of managing our affairs than we could ourselves, so lets see you provide us with everything you now provide us, plus what we used to provide for ourselves.”

Could they do it without going further into debt? And if they couldn’t, and they DID go further into debt, WHO IS GOING TO PAY THE DEBT? And HOW? For they already have ALL our incomes!

I say set up a tax system which would rebate all sales and similar taxes to those earning less than the average wage earner.

I could just hear the protests from those who earn more than the average. They would find out soon enough what a regressive tax system feels like, not that it would feel all that different to those who are in the upper 10% income bracket.

Oh, and increase the amount of the sales taxes and the number of items and services it is put on at will. Have some fun with it!

;-)

The road that needs constant repair is never paid off PrinceGeorge. They could of kept some form of toll on it to pay for the maintenance of the road. User fee for an alternate route as Gus said.

PG:-“I suspect that Harper is putting up all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles in order to prolong the agony of the HST because he MUST always have it HIS way, no backtracking or reconsidering of anything is allowed.”
——————————————–
I suspect you are wrong. That the ONLY obstacles to scrapping it now come from Victoria, and are largely being prolonged to appease certain supporters of the BC Liberal Party who benefit the most from it. While the additional revenues it brings in are a great way to cover prolonged BC Liberal mismanagement of this Province.

Roads are supposed to be maintained by taxes on motor fuels. Bill Bennett, the former Premier whose government built the Coquihalla, publicly stated in a TV interview back when the NDP was in power in the mid-’90’s, that the Coquihalla tolls had already paid off the road, and we’re just being used as a tax grab by the government. Lets not forget if Campbell had ‘sold’ the road, ala BC Rail, we’d be paying tolls to drive over it from that point on for the next 60 years! And that the toll was increased to $ 13 from $ 10 after public protest stopped its ‘sale’. Too bad the collective fury of the public couldn’t have been maintained a little longer, and directed at THAT, too.

http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/fairtax_4.htm

There is a “fair tax” movement in the USA which wants to remove all income tax and replace it will a consumption tax.

The above link provides a very rough analysis of what would change and who would be most affected by the change.

As an example, here is how it could affect seniors.

“People do not earn income at a steady rate during their lifetime. The bulk of most people’s earnings occur before the age of 65. People over the age of 65 have vastly reduced incomes and live off the savings they earned while employed. A switch to a sales tax will be in effect taxing them twice. They’ve already paid a lifetime of income taxes and now they have the opportunity to live off of their savings and consume, they’ll be taxed on that consumption. Unless special consideration is given to the current generation of seniors, they will end up paying a disproportionate share of taxes.”

Just because Christy gave her ‘view’ on what people are feeling, doesn’t mean that she won’t increase taxes. Her ‘view’ and what the government DOES are not necessarily related at all.

Seniors living off their savings already do pay a disproportionate share of taxes, Gus. Through ongoing inflation, which is a pernicious way of taxing people’s savings. It reduces the purchasing power that each dollar saved will buy over time.

We’ll never find a way of taxation that is fair to all as long as governments continue to keep their books in the current manner they do. It forces them to use taxation for other purposes than simply funding services we’ve deemed are best provided through government.

Those purposes are attempts by governments to allow private sector finance to be more fully self-liquidating than it otherwise currently could be in any modern economy where continual ‘labour displacement’ is present.

Financially, it is a continually losing proposition, even for those like the Banks, who seem as if they stand to gain.

Functionally, however, it tends to concentrate power into the hands of an elite, who have yet to show, anywhere, they’re prepared to utilise this power for the greater benefit of all.

British Columbia is still managing to do pretty well ‘cause we’ve worked hard to manage the economy for the last ten years.

You’ve worked hard in selling this Province out is all, taxed the crap out of us and turned around and gave yourselves raises!
This Liberal Government is nothing but a bunch of legal thieves.
WHERE HAS ALL THE MONEY GONE!?
GST,HST,Carbon TAX, Casino’s, plus debt?
We never had any of this 10 years ago,yes you worked hard at swindling the tax payers with your forked tongue is about it!

They don’t understand the difference between inflation and prosperity, hammy. Unfortunately, there’s little indication the current alternatives do either.

But you’re right, the BC Liberals have worked hard at selling us out. For the proverbial “mess of pottage” that will really do none of us any good. For that, if nothing else, (and there’s plenty else!), they deserve to be thrown out on their ears, and just disappear as contenders for future office under their current Party label, or some other one.

“GST,HST,Carbon TAX, Casino’s, plus debt?
We never had any of this 10 years ago”
Really?

Fiscally responsible people don’t really care what government is in power. The rest , and there are lots will whine regardless of taxes, tolls and flavour of government!
There is a response to every opinion on the forum, but there is very little accountability, just blame government. It will be no different regardless of what party is in.

First smart thing I’ve heard Christy Clark say. I am opposed to tolls anywhere… they are anti free enterprise.

A toll on highway 97 is ridiculous. Its like saying ok now we will toll everyone that drives from Austin Road to Noranda Road, but not those that drive from 5th avenue to 15th avenue. Get real now… it would never be fair and it would never work.

Roads are and should be financed by gas taxes of which we pay plenty and general revenue if needed.

Eagleone wrote: “Its like saying ok now we will toll everyone that drives from Austin Road to Noranda Road, but not those that drive from 5th avenue to 15th avenue”

Hey, now you have said something wise!!

Just the trick to prevent urban sprawl! ;-)

Eagle: “A toll on highway 97 is ridiculous. Its like saying ok now we will toll everyone that drives from Austin Road to Noranda Road, but not those that drive from 5th avenue to 15th avenue. Get real now… it would never be fair and it would never work.”

We’re just not used to the idea of highway tolls in BC (outside of maybe the Coquihalla). Drive around the USA and you’ll see many highways that are financed by tolls.

I’m not saying I’m in favour of tolls, but it’s not a stretch to see some future government look at the idea closely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407

Fot those who are not familiar with HWY 407 in the GTA.

“A radio antenna detects when a vehicle with a transponder has entered and exited the highway, calculating the toll rate. For vehicles without a transponder, an automatic number plate recognition system is used. Monthly statements are mailed to users.”

Is she buying or selling?

Socredible, I too suspect that some of your statements are as open to interpretation as mine are.

You do not mention that there are already some toll bridges in the lower mainland, I think one is called the Millennium Bridge (correct me if I’m wrong), the new Port Mann Bridge will be a toll bridge, the Pattullo Bridge will be replaced with a toll bridge and so forth.

If a new PAC is built there will be a toll (ticket) to get a seat in it and there will be an annual fee which shows up on your home owners taxes until the thing is paid off!

What’s the difference between paying a toll to use a bridge or to use a highway? To me it’s the same thing! It’s a user fee, the kind of fee one pays when riding a bus or on a SkyTrain (some of us ordinary folks actually are honest enough to buy a ticket) so if one can have a new Cariboo Highway right away instead of waiting for decades and if a toll is a method of achieving that (with the toll fees paying off the interest and the principal) it’s my opinion that it can be considered as a viable option.

To accuse a government of not keeping the promise to remove a toll before that has actually happened is a lot of hypothetical crystal ball gazing!

When it indeed happens we shall deal with it, shall we?

Cobequid passage has toll booths for those travelling Hwy 104 between Debert and Oxford in Nova Scotia a distance of around 60 km. The old route, Hwy 4, is still available. That is typically how toll roads are set up, even Highways in the USA. I remember travelling the New York Throughway when I was a child. It was a toll road at the time. It was not the only way to go. It was simply the fastest. It was not the most interesting way to go either.

PG likes taxes, pays taxes and tolls on the same road and bridge. Oh wait its all the unions fault.

Christy and the fiberals will say all they want now, we all know how that works out after an election.

The only toll bridge I’m aware of in the lower mainland, Prince George, (I don’t live there, so I may be mistaken ~ there may be others), is on the recently built Golden Ears Bridge. Which replaced the government run ferry across the Fraser between Fort Langley and Maple Ridge. Which I believe people also had to pay to use.

As I recall from going that way once, it took about as long to load the boat as it did to make the crossing, maybe ten minutes or less.

Yet the BC government run ferries across Kootenay Lake near Nelson, a 45 minute trip on larger vessels, are toll free. And there is an alternate all-land route, also toll free, the Salmo-Creston Skyway.

So there doesn’t seem to be much consistency in the application of tolls on roads and bridges. The only things consistent about them is they’re a nuisance to have to stop and pay, and it seems it’s entirely up to the option of the government to leave them in place long after the project whose cost they were supposed to offset has been paid off.

I believe the free inland ferries in the Kootenay region are a result of the Columbia River Treaty . The building of the dams created lakes which blocked free access via a bridge from one side of the valley to the other. In place of the lost bridge people were guaranteed access via a free ferry forever.

Thanks for that Yellowcake. I wondered about that one. Took the ferry last summer and it was a great trip around and across the lake. Makes good sense.

Socredible, it appears that the Conservative Party of BC is having somewhat of a resurgence at the expense of the other parties, especially the BC Liberals. Mr. Harper has a very good nose to sniff out the latest political trends and if kneecapping the BCLiberals by taking his time with the federal part of the de-implementation of the hated HST I would think that he would certainly be tempted to take full advantage of that.

As for the tolls – to me the nuisance and dangers of having to negotiate twisted two lane excuses for modern highways far outweighs the two minute nuisance of having to a stop at a tool booth and digging into my glove compartment for a handful of spare change.

I can’t see why Harper would care whether the ‘right’ side of the provincial political spectrum in BC calls itself ‘Liberal’ or ‘Conservative’, Prince George.

Ideologically, where is there really any difference between them? The only real difference is the former is still run by a group of people who do not have a very good track record for doing what they promised to do, or not do, at election time. They lie, in other words.

Whereas the other hasn’t demonstrated it’s going to follow that pattern if it’s ever afforded the chance to govern. I don’t think the hold-up on ridding ourselves of the HST has much to do with Harper. he said publicly even before the results of the Referendum were known, or even if there’d even be one, that it was entirely up to the people of BC whether they wanted HST or not.

I don’t personally object to a toll to offset the capital costs of new road or bridge construction so long as it comes off when the cost of the project has been fully liquidated. I DO object when it’s left on for years afterwards as a cash cow for government. We already pay enough in motor fuel taxes to cover the cost of ongoing maintenance of highways and bridges.