These are the planes Canada should stick with rather than the F-35. A two engine plane that is safe for the Arctic and can out compete any other plane in a dog fight including the new F-35. Maybe not as stealthy as the F-35, but that is over rated for Canada’s needs anyways.

Missile technology is the future for aviation warfare. Taking out opponents from a stand off position far away. Using drones to trigger defense activation and using drones with missiles to take out air defense positions. He with the most accurate missiles at the furthest distance and the strategy to use them is the winner in aviation warfare in the future. The F-35 does not change that.

The F-18 is tried, tested, and safe… and most importantly they are far less expensive… do we want to limit our foreign policy in the future because we fear losing a $400 million dollar aircraft if we deploy it?

Canada should be developing missile technology for our future defense needs. Ground to air missiles deployed in mesh format throughout the country, and seabed to marine missiles for our Arctic coast, and air to air for our CF-18’s defending our skies.

IMHO

Good country this Canada. Where else could you take an F-18 home when your name isn’t Peter McKay.

You mmay be 100% right Eagle – except you fail to account for the price of “developing missile technology”. I suspect that might make the price of the F35 look like a bargain

Thanks for the update. We were wondering what it was doing buzzing around town. Pretty cool to see though, and managed to get some photos as well:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44964056@N04/7077650293/in/photostream/lightbox/

I guess there has to be some perks to that job, eh?

These F 18’s are nearing the end of their life. Many other countries are going to be purchasing F35 also not just us or the US. What is the point in wasting money on old technology when it will be next to useless. Japan did extensive research on what fighters to purchase and settled for the F-35.

Russia and China are also developing stealth aircraft and will also have them on the market and some of those buyers are questionable. Something is needed to counter those aircraft.

Missles and drone technology is advancing leap and bounds but the need to get a pair of eyes right on scene is still needed. Remember the Arrow was scapped for the Bomarc missile, look how well that worked out.

If one wants a seat on the world stage one has to have the ability to play on the world stage. Just the way it is.

As for flying the F 18 home well a pilot has to keep up his hours to stay current and since he will be flying anyhow well fitting in a trip home is no added cost.

Per ardua ad astra. Fly safe Craig.

I was wondering about this, as the jet flew over my neighborhood several times. Thanks for the story.

“Missile technology is the future for aviation warfare. Taking out opponents from a stand off position far away. Using drones to trigger defense activation and using drones with missiles to take out air defense positions. He with the most accurate missiles at the furthest distance and the strategy to use them is the winner in aviation warfare in the future. The F-35 does not change that.”

Missles like the Bomarc? LOL I hope we don’t buy that bridge again!. Could you imagine if Avro was still around? Who would be buying jets from who?

I agree the Avro was a good plane… it was the basis of the F-18 which was built with the help of the former Avro engineers. If we had went with the Avro it would still be a good plane that would fit our needs today. As it is the F-18 in the picture above was probably built in the 1980’s and is likely 30+ years old… still the most formidable fighter aircraft in the skies… and yet still vulnerable to a simple missile as is any other manned aircraft… what happens in Syria and Iran will tell the tale IMO… how will they lead into those fronts to take out their missile defense.

Air warfare today is fought with missiles not manned aircraft. Manned aircraft are for having eyes on the scene with a human element. The rest can be done with drones, missiles, and satellites.

When they say the F-35 is stealth… its not really… its just a smaller cross section that lights up a smaller profile on radar and thus easier to mask… a heat seeker missile doesn’t care about a radar image. So much is packed into the F-35 that it looses out on performance and reliability (ie the vertical take off option)… most countries now are questioning if they can build a craft with everything (Britain has even canceled their plans for the F-35C for their new aircraft carriers), lots of talk of canceling the program altogether.

The idea of the Bomarc was ahead of its time… that time has arrived. Most all missiles come in at under a million dollars a piece and for most applications they already exist and we could buy them from the current producers. For the cost of one F-35 we could buy 400 cruise missiles that are far more stealthy and pin point accurate. Where Canada should focus is on under water radar/missile technology development… we have the worlds longest coast line to protect and its a natural need for Canada.

For less then a quarter of the cost of the Canadian F-35 program countries like Britain or France have both built indigenous highly capable fighter aircraft. For half the cost of the F-35 program I’m sure Bombardiar could build a highly capable fighter platform that would serve Canadian needs well… the other half could buy more CF-18’s or be invested into missile superiority.

The argument that we need the F-35 to operate on global missions is hog wash… what country is going to want to risk a $400 million dollar aircraft on regional peacekeeping missions… we would be isolationists out of economics. Most all UN missions could be covered simply by a capable aircraft… if the need arose where we needed a stealth craft for a bombing raid, and it was deemed only the F-35 could take on the mission, then the Americans would have to be relied on as they are today with their B-2 bomber that is tasked for that job… is Canada planning on buying $2 billion dollar B-2 bombers now too?

Are we still waiting for the heicopters that our last few federal governments have been fighting over ?

Air warfare wasnt worth a plugged nickel in Afhganistan. The Russians, and the Americans had their asses kicked by people with outdated AK47’s and body belts loaded with explosives.

All the might of the American Navy, Airforce, and Army havent defeated the Taliban. Why is that??

Some pundits will tell you that we are moving into another level of warfare where the present huge armaments will be useless. This is a natural progression from throwing rocks at each other to fighting with jet planes.

Next on the horizen??? Individuals moving into suburban, and metropolitan areas, and raising supreme hell. Pretty hard to stop them if they ever get going, especially when you dont know who the hell they are.

I got a couple shots this afternoon as well. Here’s one of it in a full bank turn.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tf103chl/6931528606/

Palupo “All the might of the American Navy, Airforce, and Army havent defeated the Taliban. Why is that??”
Maybe because we play by rules and they don’t?

“Maybe because we play by rules and they don’t?”

That shows who is the smarter of them.

Palopu: “Individuals moving into suburban, and motropolitan areas, and raising supreme hell.”
Exactly, and the assinine immigration policies instituted under the great and all-seeing Buddah, P.E.T., who did us in in so many ways, are directly responsible for what will come about. No wonder the Yanks want tight border controls. Who knows who is in Canada?

Winston Churchill said that if the enemy wants to play by the rules encourage them to do just that. We, however, are in the game to win, so we make up our rules as we go along.

The Avro was a good airplane but designed as an high speed intercepter. That design would not work today as every fighter today would fly circles around it.

The F 35 is stealthier than the out of service F 117 which was extremly successfull oner Bagdad. The F 35 provides a very poor heat signature and is almost invisible to heat seekers.

Other countries are developing stealth, if we could afford different aircraft for different roles, fine but not pracitcle for us in the long run. If not going stealth then might as well roll over and play dead like a defeated dog.

Sorry but airpower is keeping the Taliban heads down but they hide amongest civilians and behing women and children. When they do come out into the open, boom. It is the mixing with general population that is the big problem, their only defence. “All the might, ya right”. If the politians would stop dicking around and hamstringing the military the outcome would be alot different. The military performs quite well when given a clear task.

“Huge armaments will be useless”, you have to pay better attention to what is happening around the world in military buildups, and you where just advocating missles. Those are todays heavy armament.

Want the quality of life you have now or live in a mud hut with your baby bearer wrapped in a sheet cooking with cow sh..

I’m sure the Avro Arrow would of evolved into something else. At the time of cancellation Avro had plans for a mach 3 version. You can’t shoot down something you can’t catch. Just ask Russia. The SR71 could and still can fly where ever it wants. But we will never know as the Arrow was canceled along time ago. Aircraft will never be obsolete. They might at some point be unmanned but there will always be something flying around.

SR71 was retired years ago, but the U2 is still going strong and no plans to be retired.

A real treat having a jet flying over us at a low altitude. Not so much in Afghanistan or Iraq though.

Next time Fly By Sharp comes to visit his parents maybe he can call the Newspapers and the Radio Stations days before and tell us he will be doing this.
What a Pain in the Ass –
should be charged with noise pollution.
Why is he allowed to bring his play/work vehicle home–I’m not allowed to bring my work vehicle home. He is wasting Canadains Money and Playing around with something in his care.
As A Canadian-Think Twice before you do
something that may hurt your reputation.

Your argument against the upgrade to the F-35 is the same one, Eagleone, that the Americans used to dupe John Diefenbaker into scuttling the Avro Arrow project, some fifty years ago (not to mention damn near the entire fledgling Canadian aircraft industry as well for the next four or five decades!!).

Yeah, this a proposed PURCHASE of airplanes, not a contract to manufacture them here, and yeah, guess who we’re buying them from — the very ones who convinced Diefenbaker we didn’t need those obsolete fighter jet thingys anymore anyway, now that they’re coming into the modern fifties, because missles would be taking over. (they neglected to mention that a missle is very easy to confuse with chaff, jammers, and even just sheer speed such as was the case with the SR71) but that’s another story.

Maybe you’re right — maybe we should just keep patching up the old stuff, and when its no longer safe to fly them, we can just disband the military entirely, and assign our security and well-being to the Americans, who’ll undoubtedly have all the F-35’s it’ll take to “protect our sorry butts”.

Besides, we can then all watch the fight at home on CNN where its a lot safer.

Hey, Craig Sharp, thanks for cruis’in the city, you brought out a lot of smiles, and hey, thanks for serving. Stay safe, buddy!

For those interested in the Avro Arrow, there’s an interesting article on the net right now concerning an authenticated Arrow ejection seat that’s for sale on ebay for $250,000.00 and a bit about the rumor of one Arrow possibly having escaped the scrappers axe, and is still out there somewhere.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111217/avro-arrow-ejection-seat-mystery-deepens-with-uk-discovery-111218/

You make some good points Palomino… but you read a lot of your own into what I said.

I did not say Canada does not need modern fighter aircraft. I said the F-18 is a better fighter aircraft and we should be buying more of them. The modern upgraded F-18 flies circles around the F-35 and beats it in all areas other than stealth. The F-18 costs a fraction of the F-35 and I opined we could buy 400 or more for the price of the F-35.

I want Canada to have modern aircraft that are reliable. The F-35 can’t fly in the Arctic… its a single engine aircraft that weighs so much it can’t land on the northern runways. We need a fighter aircraft that can fly in all of Canada not just the bottom half of the country… and we need an aircraft that can do that reliably… we need the new modern F-18 and not the F-35, so that its an aircraft for Canadian sovereignty.

As for your other fallacious argument that we either have the F-35 or we make the same mistake as Diefenbaker…. That is nothing near what I was arguing. Diefenbaker was a fool. Having air defense isn’t about having one or the other… its not mutually exclusive that you either have F-35’s or missiles, but only one. What a childish argument that one is.

Canada should have the best fighter aircraft and that is the F-18… and its also far more affordable than the everybody gets a cut F-35. That said going with the F-18 fighter rather than the F-35 bomber/fighter allows the country to also afford a proper missile defense and more importantly an offensive capability to do what stealth would otherwise do.

In an ideal world I would like to see Canada purchase 3-400 of the newer modern F-18’s giving future policy makers far more operational flexibility… I would also like to see Canada build its own indigenous pure role fighter aircraft through partnership with Bombardiar… and lastly I would like to see more emphasis on building up a proper missile defense strategy as well as an offensive capability (if it involves drones than so be it, but I’m not hugely sold on the drones).

That’s my opinion.

For those who reminisce about the Arrow…you should know that Avro is alive and well!!! Watch for its triumphant return on the national news tonight (17 April), with the unveiling of the Avro supersonic engine with no moving parts. The engine is currently deployed on an old Snowbird jet in Regina. And no, I’m not making this stuff up…
http://www.atlantiscanada.com/jet/