Councillor Krause Says Better Streets Mean More Taxes
Monday, April 16, 2012 @ 4:18 AM
Prince George, B.C. – Veteran Prince George city councillor Murry Krause says the condition of city streets is the result of having a northern climate, and if you want them repaired fully you’ll have to pay more taxes.
Krause says “it’s been acknowledged, scientifically, rather than just people being mad, that we had a winter that was perfect to lead to these kind of road conditions with freeze and thaw. The city certainly isn’t doing anything different. If it’s worse this year than any other year I blame it on the climate.”
Superintendent of Operations Bill Gaal has stated that, while the city is spending $3.5 million on road repairs this year, an expenditure of $7 million is needed to keep on top of things. Krause says “I think the thing is that people are mad about the roads but they don’t want taxes to go up. If you want us to spend more money on roads then taxes have to go up.” He says “council would like to meet everybody’s expectations and it’s not just the roads. You know sometimes it’s the most visible, but there’s people in the community that have other priorities.”
Regarding the argument roads should be repaired before money is borrowed to build a dyke, Krause responds “people will think it’s a priority is there’s another flood. I mean hopefully what happened way back in 2007, that won’t be repeated for a long time but it could happen any day.” And Krause places no credence in one expert’s opinion that a flood similar in magnitude to the last one would not happen again for 30 to 50 years. “What does he know? He can’t tell about the future and he can’t tell what kind of weather we’re going to have, even this coming November. You try and listen to the experts but you also try to go with a gut feel too. “
Krause says the Alternate Approval Process is in place. “I know it’s garnering lots of attention and if people really don’t want it to happen they have to cast their vote.” The councilor says “you know, it doesn’t matter what you do you can be faulted. I think that if we’d of spent $75,000 on a referendum there’d be people who would be mad about that.”
Krause say if the dyke opponents are successful in forcing a referendum on the issue, “hopefully it can be done in conjunction with something else so you’re not just having one referendum for one issue. Asked what other issue might be on a referendum ballot, Krause says “well I’m not sure, who knows what the future might hold?”
Finally, asked if he would be in favour of taking a second look at the dyke borrowing if the AAP comes close, but falls short of the required number of votes, Krause says “you bet. But it’s not just my opinion, it would be about the conversation that we would have both legally, with staff, with the rest of council, and probably more conversations with the community.” But he doesn’t think the community should have been asked in the first place. “No, if we waited to consult on everything we’d have nothing moving forward. We put applications in for grants when the opportunity arises and you never know whether you going to get them anyway.” Krause says he doesn’t remember the exact date when the application was put in. Asked whether the dyke borrowing proposition was known prior to last November’s civic election, Krause says “oh probably, ya. Again, we put in applications for grants all of the time. And again this dyke project is a part of what the experts and the council support as one of the solutions for future flooding. This is just one.”
Comments
Before talking about dipping further into my wallet, how about discussing some of the decisions that you and your compadres have made.
-$500k to flip an old hotel
-$900k for some air space above a parkade
-$15m district energy systen
-$3m Purchasing office
-$75k Personal assistant
-$50k nissan leafs
-???? to purchase every vacant piece of land downtown(anything planned for the old CKPG site???)
-??? winter games
-aforementioned dyke
Decent roads are needed in town most of the above are wants-learn the difference and then we can talk tax levels
-$50M rcmp palace needed because the city failed to properly maintain existing building
-??? tax holidays for the core
-$???? Runway extension and Boundry Road then instead of aggressively pursuing users of these facilities switch focus of IPG to the downtown core after ONE plane landed(for the free fuel offered)
Time to start earning the big raise you got Murry et al.
“The city certainly isnât doing anything different.”
Therein lies the rub – as the well known saying goes! What is the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result (Albert Einstein)!
The statement by the man in charge – Bill Gaal – should have galvanized the whole council and the mayor into real meaningful action! No action will lead to a catastrophical backlog of miserable unsafe roads and sidewalks! Where will the accumulated raod repair shortfall of 35 million come from ten years from now if the city persists in not doing anything differently?
Perhaps the last resort will be to buy LottoMax tickets and keep all fingers crossed?!
Mr. Krause seems to be of the opinion that very little can be done about anything. It is the climate, it is the circumstances, it is the unreasonable expectations of the citizen taxpayers…what else is new?
How about a little dose of mea culpa and taking some blame for having made some very unwise money spending decisions?
âhopefully it can be done in conjunction with something else so youâre not just having one referendum for one issue.”
How about a referendum on scheduling a new municipal election for the fall of 2012?
Give me a break. If the condition of the roads is because of the winter climate that we have, then why are the roads just outside of City limits in so much better shape?
Could it be that the Regional District and the Province are paving with 5cm of top coat and not 1cm? Could it be that the Regional District and the Province make sure that the base is good before they fix a pothole? You can’t expect to dump some cold patch into a sink hole and expect it to stay.
If we’re going to fix the roads, we need a 20 year fix, but the City just wants to do 1-3 year fixes.
“The City will develop a strategy
to close the funding gap for road
rehabilitation and address it through
the annual budget process”
This is from the 2009 annual report as a goal for 2010- you were a council member then Murry—-another big FAIL.
Krause has been in to long the BS about Northern roads makes me sick.Another example of what happens when these so called politicians forget the priorities of the people. We pay for better roads the problem is the money needed is sucked away into their personal dream plan or maybe they just don’t pay attention and allow City Staff to run the show and just nod.
It has been proven the cold fill doesnt work Krause.. the word is PROVEN, so what do you keep having done.. COLD FILL.
Due to all on council thinking the city should be as far in debt as the entire USA we have bought and spent extremely stupidly.
Now you again want to come after us tax payers for more.. give your head a shake.
Skakun has already made the assinine comment of adding taxes to our gas ( I guess we dont give enough tax dollars already that way ) How about STOP all stupid spending and start selling all the land that is siting there empty. How much in property tax are we losing a year to those being empty? You keep spouting off about downtown revitilization, how can that happen when the city owns all the empty land with no prospective for income from it.
Time to make intelligent decisions with our money and not costly ones.
“Improved the Pavement Mgmt model(PCMS) to
include micro-surfacing and service level (SDI) based
interventions to optimize return on road re-investments”
2009 ACCOMPLISHMENT for the department of gibberish
“Veteran Prince George city councillor Murry Krause says the condition of city streets is the result of having a northern climate”
Well, with a mindset like that, how the heck will we ever get any improvement? We need to spend some money on re-eduction here, folks, if that is the way Councillors think.
You are right on, Icicle.
One does not even have to go outside the City limit. Look at the route of Hwy16 as it winds throough the City. Ask yourself why those streets are not full of potholes. I do not see any of any consequence, nor do I see any of any consequence on Hwy97 south of the Nechako. I cannot speak about Hwy97 North because I only travel that once a decade.
We live in a community which has a climate like 90% or mor of Canadian communities. Some have poor conditions similar to ours, some have passable conditions like ours used to be, and others have excellent conditions.
Until people get out of the mindset of blaming the weather rather than the people who build our streets and maintain our streets, we are never going to solve the problem.
Time for every single Councillor to to tell the citizens of this community what their position on this is.
Why does this sort of things happen AFTER elections every single time instead of during elections when we can replace them with some new blood?
Start by firing Bill Gall ….. the City has been firing the wrong people.
In fact, I am so fed up, that the man at the top has to be sacrificed. He is not able to do the job of running this city.
And this guy got elected to council. If freeze thaw is the issue you might just want to look at places like Kitimat, and towns in the northern part of the USA.
As has been so kindly pointed out the money wasted on council purchasing land downtown, energy systems, buildings for purchasing people, tax holidays, winter games, and now the dike could easily cover the road repair budget shortfall..
The dike is just not about borrowing 3 plus million dollars but spending over 5 million of city taxpayer money.
Sign the AAP and put a stop to the perpetual waste of our tax dollars.
As for a referendum why was the dike not on last falls election ballot. Council was afraid it would fail so they used the AAP our previous mayor Rodgers was so fond of.
Councilor Krouse seems to have less confidence in the constituents than his coleagues that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. I would have no problem with a “temporary” tax increase contingent on getting rid of the AAP. I couldn’t see giving the same bunch of clowns more of my had earned money so they could make the same mistakes again. When I say I pay enough taxes you should believe me.
Councilor Krouse seems to have less confidence in the constituents than his coleagues that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. I would have no problem with a “temporary” tax increase contingent on getting rid of the AAP. I couldn’t see giving the same bunch of clowns more of my had earned money so they could make the same mistakes again. When I say I pay enough taxes you should believe me.
“Time for every single Councillor to to tell the citizens of this community what their position on this is.”
The only problem is that the answer would be different if asked before or after the election. AAP is a good example of how a position can change 180 degrees shortly after ballots have been cast.
before election ” I’m not in favor of AAP process”
after election ” gee hate to waste 70k on referendum”
At 70K that is a bargain. By the way where does the price of a referendum come from. If city council is smart enough to figure that one out then why are they so dumb at sp-ending.
At 70K that is a bargain. By the way where does the price of a referendum come from. If city council is smart enough to figure that one out then why are they so dumb at sp-ending.
“Road Rehabilitation
The City has established the minimum service level rating for roads using a Pavement Condition
Management System. Increased annual investment in road rehabilitation is required to continue
to meet and improve that service level standard. An incremental approach to increasing the
annual road rehabilitation investment will be applied.” City of PG 2011-2015 strategic plan
If they have a Pavement Condition
Management System why are the roads in such bad shape? Maybe should have spent the money on pavement instead of a PCMS.
Is the minimum service level on this set to downtown Kabul circa 2009?
“In 2010:
ô´ The City will develop a strategy to close the funding gap for road rehabilitation and
address it through the annual budget process.”City of PG 2011-2015 strategic plan
It’s 2012 boys —- any progress to report?
“In 2010:
ô´ The City will complete the infrastructure inventory and modelling (RIVA) for all linear
assets and will advance the vertical assets evaluation.”City of PG 2011-2015 strategic plan
vertical asset….let me guess an upright city worker although might be supported by a shovel, assessment part is if they remain vertical when shovel removed.
Just think, we only have about another two and a half years of Krause’s uninspiring lack of leadership.
Is there any councillor who has any other ideas besides digging deeper in my pocket? Any leaders out there? Anyone who might be able to make some hard decisions and willing to say some major mistakes have been made? Anyone?
The only thing Murry is interested in is building more palaces for the homeless downtown. He doesn’t care one bit about the people that actually pay for these pet projects of his.
Krause says “You try and listen to the experts but you also try to go with a gut feel too.”
Oh THAT makes me feel so much better. So our big decisions can be swayed by antacids? Great.
Our Counsellors need to think way more outside the box in terms of revenue streams
Taxes are one source of revenue, granted.
Another source is energy savings
Going further, the city should look at long-term investments in partnership with the Province & Fed Gov’t on ways to produce and sell power.
1) Roof top solar photovoltaic & solar hotwater
2) Geothermal
3) Wind
4) Bio
Our infrastructure is static but could be generating money. It takes some vision and already being doing throughout the world.
Why fall behind? We need to take the lead. It will increase our revenue streams and give gov’t a commodity to sell rather than always looking to raise taxes.
Our Counsellors need to think way more outside the box in terms of revenue streams
Taxes are one source of revenue, granted.
Another source is energy savings
Going further, the city should look at long-term investments in partnership with the Province & Fed Gov’t on ways to produce and sell power.
1) Roof top solar photovoltaic & solar hotwater
2) Geothermal
3) Wind
4) Bio
Our infrastructure is static but could be generating money. It takes some vision and already being doing throughout the world.
Why fall behind? We need to take the lead. It will increase our revenue streams and give gov’t a commodity to sell rather than always looking to raise taxes.
I think Murry would infer that our roads will be swell once “climate change” has occurred. I think he would be the first to vote for a wind turbine on Cranbrook Hill to “slow down” climate change and keep justifying that it’s the climate here that makes the roads the way they are. Very sad. So far there are only two councilors who think raising taxes are a swell thing. What about the others. Or as one councilor/ candidate said at an open forum, “We have to get more people to come and live in Prince George so we can pay less taxes”. That’s what he said.
A lot of double posts. Pokey computers? Pokey website? Telus and Shaw “throttling” our Internet so they can charge more for “high speed” Internet”? Click the “Post Comment” button and wait. And wait. And still wait. Maybe you clicked it wrong. Maybe your computer is faulty. Click it one more time. Voila!! Two posts. Ain’t advanced technology wunnerfull?
Krause in my opinion you should have been gone after the last election in stead we have another 3 years of your garbage of tax increases.Earn your money that you earned from the last big and unjustified increase.Go support the safe injection site and I’m sure your want to increase the tax for that because your a bleeding heart.
Surefire, there is no such thing as a temporary tax. Once it’s in place goodluck trying yo remove it.
Double posts have more to do with a dopey guy sitting in front of the computer hitting the page refresh button rather than a pockey computer:-) Suspect slow load speed is an ABC problem not telus or shaw.
Savvvy – City has already shown us what they can do in the way of producing energy(heat) with biofuel-$15,000,000.00 debt over 20 years.
Doesn’t Murray Krause have a personal stake in the dike being built as he has his home out that way?I seem to remember that the city was to apply traffic fine money to roads,the tereson money was to be applied to roads,there was an additional tax added to our bills that was to be applied to roads and now they want more?A total mismanagement of funds collected by the city that have obviously been applied to other areas.It’s time some senior management firings at city hall.
“A lot of double posts. Pokey computers? Pokey website? Telus and Shaw “throttling” our Internet so they can charge more for “high speed” Internet”? Click the “Post Comment” button and wait. And wait. And still wait. Maybe you clicked it wrong. Maybe your computer is faulty. Click it one more time. Voila!! Two posts. Ain’t advanced technology wunnerfull?”
I have been having the same problem today. Really bad. I am on Telus. I can get any other web page without any problem including live streaming pages which usually takes the most data transfer capacity.
There continues to be something wrong either with the web hosting of this site or all of ABC.
The problem is too many aspects of this town have gone ignored for too long. Everywhere you look, there is something in need of repair, replacement or an upgrade.
Perhaps starting with the roads is the best course of action. I imagine a few of those craters out there could do serious damage to one’s vehicle.
When Bill Gaul was head of the parks, our parks went downhill but the cost stayed the same or went up. But we can’t blame all the problems of the pot holes on him. It may have gotten worse the last few years but most of the problem is that we use “salt” on the roads so that in the spring there would be “less dust” only now the dust is worse because it has “salt” in it.
A road builder from Quebec could not believe that we were using salt on the roads, he said in his area they stopped using “salt” as it weakens the asphalt. Talked to a PG City worker and he agreed but said it is the citizens that want the ice free roads which lead to the breakdown.
“A road builder from Quebec could not believe that we were using salt on the roads, he said in his area they stopped using “salt” as it weakens the asphalt. Talked to a PG City worker and he agreed but said it is the citizens that want the ice free roads which lead to the breakdown”
I’m not sure about that. In Ottawa, all we seem to use is salt. In fact, I don’t recall ever seeing dirt or gravel at an intersection. I certainly haven’t been pinged by any rocks while driving in the winter. I don’t see any major road deterioration and the roads are in far better condition than than PG. In fact, I would even argue that the climate here is worse than PG when it comes to freeze & thaw cycles. It gets just as cold here, but the swings in temperature and the types of weather events (squalls, freezing rain, etc.) are far more extreme than what I experienced in PG.
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/snow/pdf/02smp.pdf
Salt management plan dated 2004 for the GTA.
Toronto is certainly a city that has frequent freeze thaw cycles. They also use a lot of salt. In fact, the cars look like sharks in the winter with their light lower halves. And the roads look whitish as well.
Here is a piece of equipment they use.
http://paralegaltoronto.ca/blog/?p=431
Click on the picture to see a larger version.
“If they become large enough, damage to tires and vehicle suspensions occurs. Serious road accidents can happen as a direct result, especially on motorways where vehicle speeds are greater. They are frequently almost invisible to the road users.”
“To combat the problem, the City of Torontoâs Transportation Division has assigned a LARGER number of work crews to the job of fixing potholes and similar road defects. The crews pour HOT asphalt and rake it into the pothole. Then they TAMP down the asphalt and smooth it out until the road surface is improved.”
“In 2010, more than 275,000 potholes of all shapes and sizes were fixed by city staff. Itâs also an expensive job. It costs the City about $6 million each year to fix the problem.”
Krause:
Don`t blame the climate for the worst
streets and potholes in the country.
P.G. Is not the only cold place i canada.
And yes, it is your job to repair and make
sure that we do not have an accident trying
to dodge all the giant potholes. By the way,keep all your smart remarks to yourself
because they are not appreciated! We all pay plenty of taxes, as you keep raising
them every year therefore, we have the right to demand good services. You don`t like it? I have an advice for you, you don`t have to be a City Councillor, that was your idea! Can`t take it? QUIT!!!!
Taken from a CBC story on potholes in Ottawa:
“”We actually work very well with the infrastructure people and when we do come across a section of roadway that’s gone beyond the patching capabilities that we have, they will come in and do an overlay,” he said”
“Fixes used to be made with cold patches, but Wylie said the hot-patch technology the city uses now is much more effective. They won’t have to go back for a while,” he said. “They may have to go back when the frost starts coming out of the ground ⦠It’s much more permanent than it used to be.””
The story said Ottawa fills between 130,000 and 180,000 a year at a cost of around 6M.
road construction specifcations should suit the location the road is constructed.
the condition of the roads is not the northern climate it is due to improper construction methods.
I wouldn’t be so quick to incinuate that the workers are leaning on their shovels as Lonesomesparrow suggests. The problem remains that there has been some foolish spending of our tax dollars.
So simple isn’t it Norm? The basis of all good design. The product needs to be fit for the purpose.
If a can opener only works on 70% of the cans which have to be opened, don’t come up with excuses or lectures of why the opener cannot work to 99% effectiveness. Bring it back to the store.
Well, we can’t bring the roads back to the store. So we do what we can to say that we are totally fed up not only with the conditions, but with one excuse after another … winter … freeze thaw …. no hot asphalt … no asphalt early enough ….no comptetition …. too expensive …… you name it, we’ve got those excuses ready to throw back at the population.
Hey, what’s this about being open for business. Poor business people, eh?
Take care of the citizens City Councillors. That’s job number one. Without Citizens there is no city.
Hard to believe Krause was stupid enough to even make a statement like that.
Obviously, he has been dining at the the public tax trough for far too long.
Voters might want to think about that,because from where I sit…I see an entire city council that isn’t listening to the people who elected them.
This article must be brought forward prior to the next election. Im stunned by some of his comments. This guy clearly is dilusional and yet he still wins his seat.
whats it going to take for this city to get their friggin priorities straight, a rally at CN center?
Murray, if 80% of the complaints are coming from 80% of the population, you don’t need a damn referendum to get a pulse on what your constituents want.
Come on Murray, you have spent most of your life here in PG. You know what we have to deal with. Don’t play the stupid card like it’s the climate.
The main topic of discussion everywhere I go is snow removal in the winter and potholes in the spring and summer. Guess what? If you and your elected reps focus on effectively dealing with these two issues, you will all be heroes and be re-elected next term.
Why is this so difficult to figure out?
NMG:””Fixes used to be made with cold patches, but Wylie said the hot-patch technology the city uses now is much more effective.”
A pothole patching machine (operated by one person) uses a hot patch injection method. It also blasts any debris and moisture out of a pothole before patching begins…
(I have suggested the use of proper modern pothole patching equipment for more years than I can remember!!!!)
I am getting a migraine headache when I think about the professionally stubborn….
OMG!
Gee whiz, no surprise there; Mr Krause has probably been drinking the hydrofluorosilicic acid (HFSA)again,the poison found so commonly in our public drinking water, which he and his buddies seem to love so much.
Dr. C. G. Heyd, former President of the American Dental Association has said:
“I am appalled at the prospect of using water as a vehicle for drugs…”
Phyllis Mullinex, Ph D, Research Scientist, in a 1997 letter to Calgary Councillors, “as a toxicologist involved in fluoride research for over ten years, I was stunned by the Calgary Regional Health Authority’s glib comments proclaiming water fluoridation is safe. The fifty years’ of studies about fluoride do not exist. The “ongoing intensive research on fluorides and fluoridation” does not exist, certainly none investigating safety.”
Oh, yeah, and she just happened to get fired after she had done a study on rats, finding that the fluoride used in her research breached the rats’ BBB (blood brain barrier) which previous studies indicated could never be done.
The City of Calgary, recently having ended fluoridation of their city water,did the humane thing by voting to donate some of the money thus saved, to begin a dental hygiene program for low-income families. The same thing can be done here when water fluoridation is finally gone.
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