Seems pretty simple to me, we need to divest money out of “optional” services and just focus on core infrastructure in my opinion; water, sewer, roads. Things like parks, swimming pools, arenas, these are niceties we can’t afford to subsidize any longer. People have to pay the full price of running these facilities or else we just need to shut them down.

We spend millions every year on parks, recreation and culture. The recreation piece could easily go to private hands.

Lots of firefighting forces are mostly manned by volunteers. How many structure fires does Prince George have every year that would justify the 20 million we pay for that?

Let me loose on those city books for a week and I bet you I could easily find the money for roads, sewer and water infrastructure. It’s about making tough decisions and having the courage to be unpopular for the good of the sustainability of this City, which I happen to love.

I believe you would easily find a more sensible re-arrangement without raising taxes yet again! So could a lot of people who are not in need of reality therapy!

They are letting KPMG do a core review! Let’s wait and see what KPMG comes up with, if anything.

I was expecting at least an email reply confirming that KPMG had received my email with a worthwhile suggestion – but no such luck!

Somewhat of a bad omen, but that’s the way she goes, apparently!

Sine: “Things like parks, swimming pools, arenas, these are niceties we can’t afford to subsidize any longer. People have to pay the full price of running these facilities or else we just need to shut them down.”

In principle I agree, but what will happen is that people will move out of town to other places that have those ammenities, thereby reducing the tax base. People, right or wrong, have come to feel entitled that these facilities will be there for them. When they’re not, they’ll go somewhere else.

“We spend millions every year on parks, recreation and culture. The recreation piece could easily go to private hands.”

Seems like a simple solution. Are there companies waiting to step up to the plate to take on these facilities? I think you would have a hard time finding anyone, but that’s just my gut feeling.

There are no easy answers.

So we question the income of people who provide the basic needs as well as some of the wants of our citizens ……

But we do not question the incomes of sport superstars and entertainment superstars who earn in the multi millions each year and even put the average Mega Company CEO benefits to shame.

We are paying those through costs of product advertising, event tickets and, of course, often a community’s investment in the major venues for those sports. Perhaps it is time for those venues to be built and owned by the leagues with business and property taxes paid to the communities.

Sytems re-engineering time with a bit more thinking outside the box and it should go further than many people seem to be prepared for.

When it comes to taxation, it seems to me that the percentage tax taken by the province and the feds has dropped with the right of centre governments. At the same time both the BC government and federal government has increased the deficit and the debt in the last number of years, partly or totally due to the economic climate in the world.

Muncipalities exist in that same world, with one exeption. They cannot operate a deficit budget. They can run up more and more debt, up to a limit.

When one has a shrinking population and a shrinking industry, the tax base is limited and dropping, especially when compared to a municiplity that is not shrinking and a province that is not shrinking in population.

We need to be cognizant of those kinds of realities before pointing finger at each other.

BTW, why is the province not dealing with the flood situation in PG? Can we get some clarity of whose responsibility it is, since Rustad has made it clear whose responsibility city roads are.

And while we are at it, can we get some clarity of what the role of the MoE is when it comes to making sure that air quality in a community meets the standard and is not one of the worst in the province.

Build a heavy industry park outside the community before another plant is put into a situation of possibily rebuilding.

We missed an opportunity with the Pacific Bioenergy pellet plant, with a replacement of a veneer plant, and now of a sawmill.

The City cannot do very much about relocating the downtown CN yard. The province has a much better chance at doing that. It was a topic at one of the forums in the last election. We were told that our tow MLA were going to be looking into that. I have heard nothing.

What is the province doing with the feds to plan for the moving of the CN yards as part of the northern gateway transportation corridor improvement? Apparently CN needs a larger yard. So now is the time from the sounds of it.

The people moving away argument doesn’t seem to pencil to me. We have a huge breadth of amenities, and our population is declining. If your logic correct, shouldn’t people be flocking here from outlying areas in droves?

There are reasons why people live in PG, but I think the recreational amenities are low on that list of reasons. In a place where 30 minutes in any direction will get you right in the middle of a forest, lake or river, I don’t see this as a problem. If people want to swim bad enough they will pay what it costs or they’ll do it free in the summer at any number of local watering holes. I don’t partake in swimming or skating, so why should I subsidize it? I think for non necessities, users should pay and if there is a big enough demand, the resource will be here.

If on the other hand, the infrastructure of this town is allowed to continue to crumble, that can an will have a serious affect on commerce and then population and tax base. I think if you have solid infrastructure, the rest will just come and there will still be some left over for niceties, just not as many. This is the new reality we must wake up to.

“This is the new reality we must wake up to”

As gus noted, has anyone every taken the time to examine the relationship between lower and lower taxation rates for individuals and corporations and the impact that has had on governments ability to fund services? Has anyone ever taken the time to ask whether these fiscal policies have benefitted the average person on an overall scale? Sure people have a few more bucks in their pockets for a new TV, but at what cost? Does it mean that they have to drive on crumbling roads, pay more for college for their kids and wait longer to receive the medical attention they require?

Since when did it become acceptable for big business to dictate how Canadians are expected to live? That is basically what is now occurring. Everything from fiscal policy, to environmental regulations, to trade arrangements, to natural resource management, to the structure of our financial markets, is now heavily influenced by people who can’t even vote. Heck, there has even been talk out there from some politicians about how corporations should be allowed to vote!

Honestly, I think our entire society is going nuts. We cheer when governments slash the jobs of people who provide us with services and then we complain when the services are subpar. We demand tax cuts and then we complain when MSP premiums go up. We complain about jobs being shipped offshore, but we vote for political parties who support policies which ensure that will occur.

I’m simply dumbfounded that people think the solution to many of these problems is to regress our society and standard of living to something that was the norm six or seven decades ago. Is this really progress? Would you honestly be happy raising your child in a city that doesn’t have a swimming pool or soccer field . . . in CANADA? C’mon folks, think big picture about what is going on here . . .

We are who we make ourselves to be ….

I think everyone should read the link and then think about who is productive at work, and how we might become more productive and get more leasure time.

I know that when I started to enter the world of work, there was this rumour going around that pretty shortly we would have much more leisure time because improved work processes would make us more efficient and free up time to reduce the workweek to 4 days and less.

Well, some countries have been able to achieve that dream and have staid at the top of welthy countries or moved closer to the top than they ever were.

http://www.openforum.com/idea-hub/topics/lifestyle/article/why-germans-have-longer-vacation-times-and-more-productivity-glen-stansberry

“One American who was working as a manager in Germany described German workers as more individual and closed off, whereas Americans tend to “meet it to the death” when faced with problems.”

That is why my message to Brian … forget about meeting with people who have no responsibility for getting the job done and instruct those people who do have that responsibility to get the bloody job done and take some ownership and responsibility for making the right and the wrong decisions.

“Germans on average work around 1,436 hours per year, versus the 1,804 hours Americans work. With those numbers it would be easy to conclude that Americans do more and would be more productive in the workforce.

“But we don’t. Studies show that Germans get roughly the same amount of stuff done in fewer hours each week, and with more vacation time.

“Germans have six weeks—that’s weeks, not days—of federally mandated vacation time a year. As an American, I can’t even fathom what six weeks of vacation time would feel like.

“Americans view vacation as a bonus, Germans view vacation as a necessary aspect of life.”

Lower taxes = less services. simple as that.
If you want good roads and infrastructure you have to pay for it. So let’s get on with it and stop looking for some third party magic solution.
There is no BIG govt conspiricy.

“Lower taxes = less services. simple as that.”

That is very simple, you are right.

Do you have that same attitude when you go shopping? Or do you do a bit of shopping around for best value for money as you see it? What is your buying power this year as compared to 10 years ago; as compared to others you know? What are your special needs that others may not require? Waht are other’s special needs that you may not require? How much can you afford on wants?

What is this City’s buying power compared to others? Is it better or worse than others? And so on ….

To me it is not all that simple at all. It is only simple if one has an excessive amount of buying power.

Donald Trump would think it is simple ….. then again, everything is relative. :-)

There is only one tax payer is the biggest coop out I’ve heard yet. There may only be one society, or one class of citizen, but we have many many forms of tax payer both foreign and domestic, both corporate and individual, and we have resources and monetary policy… but one tax payer is a simplification to coop out IMO.