If the hours are,as stated above “truly voluntary”, how can a union force a teacher to withdraw under the threat of being black balled.

The BCTF will never settle with the government, no matter who is in power, as long as they elect wingnuts such as Ms. Lampert to leadership positions.

The union is not forcing its members to withdraw volunteer time. They are strongly suggesting a united front which is call work to rule. If you remove the right to strike like has been done this is the only way to get a point across to the government that is taking away the unions right to collective bargaining. If I took away your right to bargain with your employer what would you do. Oh I know roll over like a sheep. I think not your extra time that you give your employer around your coffee breaks and lunchtime as well as quiting time would I think be strictly adheard to and to hell with him or her. This is exactly what is happening with the BCTF.

Congratulations to the BCTF for taking a stand against the Biggest Bully in the school yard, the “Liberal Government”

Yes Farnorth – just like they took a stand against the previous NDP government… Not hard to figure out who the problem is here

During all my years in a unionized workforce, volunteers were a dirty word.

Their attitude was that nobody should do anything for nothing.

You know the system you’re living in is messed up when you actually have to have a 3rd party rule on your RIGHT to withdraw your volunteering activities.

This government has no shame and no hope of ever returning to power here. Then to add insult to injury, we have to keep paying them right up to the next election, even though the people who put them in power no longer want or value their leadership.

I wonder if we recalled the entire party if it would get more votes than even the HST did.

It boggles the mind that there was some confusion about whether or not voluntary meant voluntary or voluntary meant mandatory.

Usually the anti union overseers think voluntary is mandatory and that says loads about their character. Many also make their employees work overtime for straight time or they lose their jobs.

People weren’t put on this earth to serve employers without fair compensation Chester. Do you think employers are in business for the fun of it? They are in business to make money. Thats why employees are in it also. If everyone did things for nothing the employers would be getting rich for free.

Unions,(they are the employees that do the work)ensure all is fair in the sandbox.

Exactly Farnorth!

I think the teachers are over-reliant on the goodwill of the taxpayers.

I think that the taxpaying parents of precious little snowflakes are over reliant on teachers. First you want to run the teachers down and treat them like slaves; slamming them every chance you get then you want to trust them all day with your kids?!

It’s beyond stupid that this issue even went before the LRB…..who is responsible for this wasteful exercise??

“who is responsible for this wasteful exercise??”

The parties to the contract.

lonesome sparrow wrote: “If the hours are, as stated above “truly voluntary”, how can a union force a teacher to withdraw under the threat of being black balled.”

Excellent point.
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apester wrote: “They are strongly suggesting a united front which is call work to rule.”

Working to rule is fine. Volunteering to rule is another matter. What the rule is for volunteering is an individual’s decision, not a union’s decision. Seems you did not understand the full meaning of of the LRB ruling. So, some may decide to volunteer, others may not. Both are in compliance with the ruling and both parties have to keep their hands off.

“who is responsible for this wasteful exercise??”

“The parties to the contract.”

Umm no, but the employer and the liberal govt are.

I guess the LRB’s days are numbered. They didn’t come out in favour of the Libs. We all know that those who don’t tow the political line of Crispy get legislated against.

Employers are in the business to make money. That statement is true to private industry, however how does it relate to school teachers or government workers???

Is the Government in business to make money??? If so they are doing a piss poor job of it.

As I said before. When you have the Government (paid for by taxpayers) negotiating with Teachers (paid for by taxpayers), there are two winners and one loser. Guess who loses. The taxpayer of course.

Teachers are well paid in this Province, and have all the associated benefits. The problem is they do not realize how well off they are. Actually I think some do, but would never say so publically.

This particular Government plays hardball with the teachers, and the BC Teachers Fed, because they know they have been infiltrated by the NDP, and they will never vote for them.

The taxpayers are caught in the middle as usual.

“Employers are in the business to make money.”

There is the fallacy in the very first sentence. Not all organizations that employ people are businesses. The government’s purpose is not to make money. The government’s purpose is to provide services which private industry will not provide or will not provide as effectively as government can. That very notion is a moving target based on the political philosophy in vogue at any given time and the culture of the community and country that the government operates.

The province determines how public education will be delivered and how decisions about delivering in various communities will be made.

Their measure is not through quarterly financial reports to shareholders. Some private schools may operate in that way.

Nice to see that when you consider winners and losers the recipients of the service delivered are not considered. Ridiculous!!

“…… BC Teachers Fed ….. have been infiltrated by the NDP”

Teachers in North America tend to be liberal thinkers rather than conservative thinkers. In fact, I think generally speaking, the more educated one is, the higher the probability is that one is a liberal rather than a conservative thinker.

Here is a survey of College faculty over 10 years old. I suspect that it the same survey were conducted today, the percentage of liberal thinkers would be lower, but still the majority.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Gus the union is the teachers they aren’t two separate things. So if one or two want to volunteer it’s up to them. Maybe they will volunteer at St Vincent De Paul’s instead of some kids sports team. The kids get enough of their time.

All for one and one for all.

It’s been a few years since I was in school but as I recall, school is like society in general. About 20-25% of teachers did all the volunteering and the other 75% did not. Some people love to give their time to help others and some don’t. It is up to the individual.
When I think back, the teachers I remember are the ones that spent their extra time after school and on weekends. These are the teachers that I am still in contact with after 35 years out of school. The others are just a poor distant memory!
Now I have to go make a few phone calls and tell them how much I appreciated their efforts and time!

Whatever Dragon, dosn’t matter who the government is. The BCTF is always at war and its always ” for the students”. The public knows what interests they serve. Selling their petty job actions as some altruistic endevour for the students is truly laughable.

Wonder if Matt Pearce had his football coaches quite in his hall of fame career at PGSS. Arrogant hypocrite.

I see teachers volunteering all the time….not just in extracurricular school events but also in many many activities within my community. It does not appear that their union has prevented them from volunteering for things in my view. It should not be forgotten that teachers are people with families of their own who they want to spend time with. Personally, I like to chose what volunteer work I do and when I do it………not be told by my employer.

Calling people names again hey, dow7500?

It was on the american news that union leaders cause desention between workers and enployers. They also are saying the union pensions are causing a lot of the financial shortages.
Of course union people think there is no end of the money.
They should try run a businesse sometimes.
Im sure it would be interesting.

They also say that lousy management are causing a lot of the financial shortages. Of course management people think there is no end to cheap labour. They should try working for cheap wages sometimes. I’m sure it would be interesting.

Taxed Out! You sell employees way short.In B.C. and Canada you can earn as much and as little as you want. Employees who have any skill at all are far better represented by themselves instead of a union that lumps them in with kulls that need protection.

Palopu and gus, my comments above are in regards to unions period, I never said anything about the gov’t being a business or them being in it to make money.

Follow the story line boys….

Whatever dow carry on with the personal attacks!

cougs says…The others are just a poor distant memory!

Hmmm, is that how you feel about others that don’t service your personal needs or bend over backwards for you?

Sad!

Of course skilled labour has leverage in benefit negotiation but, only a fool would believe if unions were elliminated that that leverage would be severely weakened. In the US there are many Republican states that have introduced “right to work” legislation. The result has been a dramatic reduction in wages in every state that has this anti-labour legislation, union and non-union alike. Think about it, if “right to work” legislation is only being introduced by Republicans in the US, do you think it is legislation that is beneficial to workers? If you don’t believe me it only takes a quick google search on “right to work” legislation.

Dragonmaster! I appreciate all the good teachers I had, but there were several teachers that should not have been allowed to teach. They had no interest in what they were doing and no interest in the betterment of the student.

How is that different from any other profession cougs78. There are incompetant Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, Pilots, they too are not doing it for the benefit of their clients!!!!

For some reason you seem to feel because the teaching profession may have some who you think shouldn’t be there the whole lot is a bunch of unionized babies!!!

You are correct about Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, and Pilots. But if I don’t like them I can switch! Sh*t should not be protected by the union regardless of whether they are teachers, rcmp, millworkers or any profession. So you make my argument for me.
I have friends and family deeply rooted in the Union ,so we have this discussion all the time. They too are generally disgusted by the issues that fire up the Union brass. They protect the useless instead of fighting the meaningful battles.
That is the Union of the last 30 years, not the one that fought for workers rights.

You have the same choice in choosing teachers as you have with Doctors cougs78. Pretty sure the Ministry of Health is a government organization. Just like switching Doctors you have the same choice with teachers. When was the last time you had a choice on who flew the plane, last time I got on a plane I had no idea who was flying it till I was at 30,000 feet and the Captain came on the intercom to talk to the passengers. You don’t have as much control as you brag you do cougs78. Do you have a choice on asking for a different cop when you get pulled over for speeding, of course not, how ridiculous? Obviously you never googled “right to work” like I mentioned in an earlier post, as you would have seen evidence on how relevant unions are today.

Children learn by example. This graduating generation may have some interesting mindsets when it comes to future entitlements. I will wait.

Just looked at Right to Work, and found disturbing read on unions!
– Big Labor Top Ten Special Privileges

They are nothing but common crooks and thugs!

cougs, the union are the employees. They are known as union members. The union members employ people to represent them.

Some of the BCTF demands.

1. A 22% increase in salary (the maximum would move from $74,353 to $90,944 a year). TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $618 million.

2. Up to 10 days off for the death of any friend or relative-plus two days more if travel is involved. TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $80 million.

3. Sick leave provisions for Teachers on Call. TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $81 million.

4. Up to 26 weeks of fully paid leave per year to provide direct or indirect compassionate care to any person. TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $49 million.

5. Eight days off a year whenever a teacher wants. TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $122 million.

6. Retirement bonus of 5% a year to any teacher with 10 years or more service at age 55. TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS $445 million.

These are just some of there demands.

The total package if it were given to them would cost taxpayers $2.1284 Billion. To put that in perspective: the total 2009/2010 public school teacher payroll was $2.9 billion.

Their demands seem a little unrealistic to me.

Boy this goes on and on! Matt Pierce is comparing this to Poutin and Charest now! I actually think teachers should be able to strike as I think public sentiment would turn ugly very quickly! When the average taxpayer actually gets the real goods on teachers as stated above they will be looked on in a whole different light. Love the teachers, just think they are not well served by their leadership!