According to the EPA, “A single dairy cow produces about 120 pounds of wet manure per day, which is equivalent to the waste produced by 20–40 people.” Further it has been estimated that globally domesticated livestock release about 130 times more excrement than is produced by the entire global human population every year.

Manure and urine from livestock is not flushed down toilets and treated either in septic systems nor sewage treatment plants, rather it lays on the ground to evaporate into the air we breathe, washed into the earth entering the food we eat, and into the freshwater we drink untreated.

Livestock manure and urine contain pesticides, herbicides, pathogens, heavy metals, hormones, antibiotics, ammonia, organic matter, sediments, and volatile chemical compounds. Excess nitrogen and phosphorus from livestock excrement can result in or contribute to low levels of dissolved oxygen (anoxia), eutrophication, and toxic algae blooms. These conditions may be harmful to human health and, in combination with other circumstances, have been associated with outbreaks of microbes such as Pfiesteria piscicida.

Animal wastes flushed into fresh and saltwater can reduce oxygen levels known to cause fish kills. Pathogens, such as Cryptosporidium, Ecoli, Salmonella and other drinking water pathogens in manure can also create a food safety concern if manure is applied directly to crops, or washed into water supplies like most recently in Walkerton Ontario. In addition, pathogens are responsible for some shellfish bed closures. Nitrogen changed into the form of nitrate, can contaminate drinking water supplies drawn from ground water.

Agricultural chemicals (or agrichemicals) refer to the wide variety of chemical products used in agriculture, such as pesticides (including insecticides, herbicides and fungicides), as well as synthetic fertilizers, hormones and antibiotics. Farmers spray agricultural chemicals onto food grown for animals in order to kill bugs, rodents, weeds, and other organisms that would otherwise supplant or eat the grain grown for the animals. They also apply these substances directly to animals’ skin, fur or feathers to combat insect infestation.

Many of the agricultural chemicals used by ranchers and farmers contain ingredients that are known carcinogens, while others cause severe allergies, birth defects and various health problems. Livestock manure and urine also contain residues from the massive doses of non-therapeutic antibiotics and artificial growth hormones that animals are routinely fed or injected with to prevent illness and accelerate weight gain.

Hydrogen sulfide gas released from livestock manure, and urine as it lays on the ground, which in sufficient quantity cause headaches, dizziness, respiratory, cardiac or pulmonary distress, and even death. Particulate matter and bacterial toxins also have been found in high concentrations at and around animal facilities. Ammonia from waste slurry lagoons breeds bacteria, which creates acid that evaporates and combines with nitrous oxide from fertilizers and industrial pollution to form nitric acid rain which in turn leaches nutrients from the soil, despoils forest habitats, and kills fish by releasing toxic minerals from the earth that flow into aquatic ecosystems. Even though agricultural fertilizer emissions are the leading cause of nitric acid rain (after motor vehicles and coal plants), they remain virtually unregulated in the U.S.

In addition, animal agriculture is responsible for more than half of humanity’s total greenhouse gas emissions largely created by using arable land to grow food for animals, animal belching and flatulence, and chemical emanations from manure). This includes 37 percent of anthropogenic (i.e., human-made) methane, and methane gas is 23 times more potent a climate change agent than carbon dioxide.

 A pipefull of biodegradable oil that has been freshly bathed in warm, soapy water certainly doesn’t seem to be toxic at all. In fact any of the minute traces of what may be considered toxic are steamed out, contained, and treated back at the oil sands mine sites where there already has been at least 7.5 million new trees planted. How many new trees have been planted in the Cariboo recently?

Here is a link demonstrating how to clean up after an oily accident video:

http://www.cawildlife.org/media-center-landing-menu/videos-mnu/89-video-…

“How many new trees have been planted in the Cariboo recently?”

A hell of a lot more than 7.5 million.

Nice copy / paste, by the way…
http://www.minnpost.com/global-post/2012/07/alberta-pipeline-oil-spills-gas-emissions-stain-canadas-green-reputation

Ecotruth, with all due respect, what does your cow manure post have to do with Enbridge and the proposed bitumen pipeline?

Are you for or against the pipeline project and why?

I for one am for the pipeline project and Ecotruth that was a very good post.

And for all those opposed to the project I have a question for you if you are so dead set against this project why have you never spoken up about the 3 pipelines that were put in from Alberta to BC 2 going to Kitimat and one going to Vancouver in the past 10 yrs?

There are 9 pipelines that go east-west in northern BC and a further 6 that go north-south and the countless others that are short lines throughout the province why have you never spoken about those pipelines?

what the heck?

Manure is bad so pipelines are good??

You didn’t speak out before so you can’t be opposed now?

Where do get this stuff???…did Enbridge have a handook or are you making it up as you go along?

OMG.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/07/10/enbridge-oil-spill-michigan.html?cmp=rss

Ecotruth good point, that will get the teeth grinding. I am waiting for criminalminds response.

Northern Gateway reflects a huge subsidy to Albertan Big Oil interests, through the use of cheap BC natural gas to produce it. At a projected capacity of 193,000 barrels /day, Northern Gateway’s opportunity cost to BC gas to produce it is at least $2.7 million/day or $24/barrel. This far outstrips the $8/barrel increase in price Alberta gets by shipping the oil to China. Not only is Enbridge Gateway uneconomic, it is anti-Canadian. The greatest financial benefit to Canada would be to export natural gas to Asia at a 500% increase in price, rather than get a 10% increase for Alberta oil.

Enbridge’s estimated cost of Kalamazoo River oil spill cleanup exceeds its $650 million insurance policy

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/09/enbridges_estimated_cost_to_cl.html

Note that if Enbridge had an oil spill on the scale of BP’s Gulf of Mexico, the cost of clean up would be greater than the value of the company. Taxpayers would be left holding the bag.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Federal+regulators+reveal+likely+cause+pipeline+rupture+that/6910731/story.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gXaYZVGw44&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlnri_scklA&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9N-VR7QOQc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxrC7akwGsI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=dOKmeV-sBEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVRuelvJ-s&feature=player_embedded#!

M ake some popcorn, grab some twizzlers and be prepared to scream at the computer..

Enbridge are environmental criminals

577,The Unluckiest Number,Ten years out./ The Enbridge pipeline disaster
___________

The 10 year anniversary next month of the Bengal Lion Star tragedy and I had to come to ground zero to see for myself, perhaps it was a mistake to come here, from what I have seen i`m way too angry to cry and too sad for fury, in fact I almost have that peaceful easy feeling.

How I miss my dad`s analytical explanation and mom`s hope springs eternal talks, yet I fear that neither parent could explain away this tragedy, 10 years later, 10 years of black death extending it`s reach.

Looking around by boat off Banks island, one mile from ground zero the feeling is of the surreal, trees are still green but any ocean life or bird activity is eerily quiet, no salmon fry swimming , no squawking gulls just silence, for tens of miles in every direction the great kelp forests are gone, who gave us permission to gamble and lose what we didn`t own and what we could never replace, Fish lake was a horrid environmental mistake, imagine deliberately destroying a huge natural watershed for trinkets of gold, thousands of dead migrating birds, a poisonous lake devoid of life, how many species of frogs, insects still get near or in the lake only to perish or leave half dead, but as horrible as the deliberate execution of Fish lake was the scale of the Bengal Lion Star oil spill off Banks island in Hecate Strait is beyond compare, how is it that my only terms of reference in attempting to describe this site is that of dead zones, in a way its very peaceful, no eternal battle for life here, those days are long gone.

Only if I could turn back the clock, why did it happen, the Bengal Lion Star should not have went out, a deep pacific low moving in, was the Captain pressured to leave, why why why, even with two large commercial tug boats assisting wasn`t going to stop the wreck, maybe if there were extra support tugs who knows but when lead tug boat Kitimat queen capsized in heavy seas nothing was going to stop the massive oil carrier from grounding on White jagged rocks that stormy (March 14, 2016) night, 30 – 40 ft high waves capped with fury pounded the Bengal Lion Star on unforgiving rocks, section after section burst like watermelons, spewing millions of gallons of tar sand oil, the 3rd largest oil spill in the world, maybe if the oil containment teams had gotten out here sooner but with storm force winds blowing for 2 days along with extreme high and low tides, my god, oil sprayed the shore line high on exposed rocks and layered thick into the lowest tidal zones, mountains of Alberta crude flowing in deep water, who could imagine the oil would have spread 50 miles in different directions over 2 days, coves, bays, narrow channels coated in black death, as far as I can look in any direction this paradise is dead, who knows what the bird count will ultimately be, millions of direct bird deaths with millions more that died in subsequent migrations, birds all along the coast found dead, birds with clear signs of contact with heavy oil, the engine in this migration route blasted with Alberta crude, indeed, the scale of the Bengal Lion Star oil spill can`t be measured in millions of oiled birds or the 40 distinct salmon runs that were decimated and or all of British Columbia`s wild salmon teetering on extinction, the sea lions, otters, coastal bears, eagles, ferrets, no salmon spawning led one extinction into another, we broke nature`s bond, too many dead for one`s heart to count, oil stained carcasses feed other animals that ultimately die and black oil`s death grip reaches on and on, only with time, generational time, perhaps millenia before this area recovers, can it recover, and for what, to spill another tanker of crude.

I don`t what is harder to take, the fragile existence of a few northern runs of salmon and southern Sockeye, it`s almost like the cycle of life has been thrown out, this large swath of nature, thousands of square miles destroyed forever, well at least for my lifetime, perhaps 6 or 7 generations before this area will become fertile again but with continued oil tanker traffic when will black death strike again, even if the shell fish recover, even if herring spawns again, the Orca will never be seen again, the birthing females were first to die then the small adolescent Orca perished, 2 adult males are all that is left of the species, maybe mankind should have figured out how to start a new Orca pod before destroying the only one we had, we can take life away in a moment for all time, why didn`t we learn from the Valdez disaster, there is no going back, First Nations have mourned, the northern and island tourism industry has been decimated, maybe I should have fought harder against the National review 15 years ago, 10 years out from the disaster and Hecate Strait still lay mortally wounded, you can still smell crude oil, I can only think of Charlton Heston`s Planet of the Apes movie when he sees New York`s Statue of Liberty and realizes that it was mankind himself that burned mother nature, this area is no longer worth fighting for, top scientists are mostly in agreement that outside of decades of time there is nothing on scale that can be done to remediate the damage.

It appears the only ones left fighting about the Bengal Lion Star are the litigants, where have we seen this picture before, the Exxon Valdez law suit still lingers unpaid(40 years later), the Liberian registered Bengal Lion Star oil tanker had but minimum insurance, $200 million dollars yet the insurance has been contested, Bengal Lion Star hadn`t paid premiums in 2 years, Honshu commercial carrier insurance company have claimed bankruptcy, between the Province and Ottawa more than $14.9 billion has been spent on clean-up and species mitigation, First Nations, affected business`s and local town`s folk have law suits filed worth more than $15 billion dollars, everyone suing and litigating for compensation on something no one can return, Enbridge pipeline inc washes their hands of any responsibility, Shell, Exxon Mobile and the Chinese petroleum company are all pointing fingers at each other, owners of the Bengal Lion Star blame the escort tug company, tug company blames act of god and file for bankruptcy, how long will these trials go on and who will ultimately pay, what price, what price to return nature to the way it was, all this pain to secure dirty Alberta crude oil to China, oil use falls for the last 7 years, a dying product needing desperate tyrants, we sold out nature on British Columbian`s wild west coast for a handful of pesos, how can ancient dregs of plants take so much away from present and future life cycles, I can`t shed tears anymore, my life, my personal battles, millions of wasted words warning of potential harm or should I say risk management, I `m too old to repeat the warnings and too tired to muster passion, the battle for Haida Gwaii is over.

Despite the First Nation`s blockade attempting to stop the very first oil tanker, 8 First Nations elders gave their life that day, not enough pressure to stop the Vessel, Oil tanker Shell diamond and it`s Canadian naval escort, dugout canoe versus high-speed frigate, symbolic but futile, the time to stop Enbridge was before it started, certainly native voices on opening day weren`t going to stop it, you can`t stop $5 billion dollars spent, never the less January 13/2015 was the day the first super tanker left Kitimat, thousands of small protest vessels, nothing, not even Greenpeace and Suzuki foundation`s concentrated efforts could stop the Federal Conservatives and the Gordon Campbell Liberal administration from rubber stamping this project from the git-go, proceeding at full speed, no matter how much evidence anti pipeline opponents, scientists, biologists, enviro`s put forward they were all but ignored, why didn`t the NDP government stop the completion of Enbridge after they were elected in 2013, was the fix in, too much money invested to stop, too big to fail, needed economic growth, jobs jobs jobs, yes I heard everyone of those excuses justifying the completion of Enbridge, what jobs, imported foreign workers building the pipeline and 12 permanent after construction jobs, was it worth it.

Madness, I knew something really big would happen, not the 5000 barrels that spilt into the Skeena river, not the 50,000 barrels dumped at the port of Kitimat but something epic, mathematician’s also knew it was coming, not if a big spill would happen but when a spill would happen, I can still hear Gordon Campbell, Christy Clark talk about risk management, the best experts in the world say we can manage the risk, how come no one asked how do we manage armageddon, how do we clean up, how do we create more Orca, how do you bring back thousands of square miles from the dead, I wonder what Gordon Campbell would say, ex premier Adrian Dix stated regrets that the NDP didn`t do more to stop Enbridge, Gordon Campbell is long since dead, yes Stephen Harper and Gordon Muir Campbell I pass blame on to you and your complicit Cabinets, your legacy, Enbridge, bankrupt utilities, a dismal health care system, a dead central coast and slow dying life cycle, well, no one is listening to me, not the Governing federal Conservatives, not Premier Gordon Coons of the newly elected Refederation party, no, no one wants to listen to the left wing, after the BC Liberal led economic collapse, the seeds of P3s, IPPs and insider deals dominated, it didn`t matter who was Government in British Columbia, so many bad deals were signed, how many can the court overturn, the extent of the economic damage that came to fruition, what happened, like the Spanish flu in 1919 that killed millions, no one talks about the harm Gordon Campbell`s corporate Government inflicted upon us, the extent of one way contracts that ate up every Provincial dollar and more, I can`t help but think back to our 2010 Olympics, the pride, the I am Canadian attitude, Super Natural British Columbia but just a few short years after the closing ceremonies we have poisoned interior lakes, lost countless wild salmon runs to fish farms and now the third largest oil spill in the world, a death blow to our BC Coast, a massive spill in our migration engine.

Just picture heaven covered in oil, and what hurts even more, the people of BC don`t seem to care anymore, in the latest public opinion poll by Ipsos Reid job creation and big industry are more important than the environment, 67% for jobs and 16% say protect the environment, it`s times like this when I stare across at Mc Caully island or look into Norway inlet, smell the oil, I see the end of the world being played out, there is no shoulder of comfort to lean on, no soothing hugs that can squelch my silent anger, 576 successful departures from Kitimat, 576 loaded oil tankers that safely managed the inside passage, risk management, reward versus risk, despite 5 years of cruise ships not plying the inside passage, despite the loss to tourism, despite a sterile ocean desert, despite the tiniest of recoveries on the outer edges of the spill zone, despite of everything tanker traffic is predicted to triple over the next 3 years, an insatiable Asian appetite for oil and now that paradise is lost there is nothing left to fight for and no reason to stop, perhaps other Edens can be spared.

Number 577, no tears of anger, no screams of silence, nothing but…

“That peaceful easy feeling.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44A9iDQNrss

The Straight goods

Cheers Eyes Wide Open

seamutt: “Ecotruth good point, that will get the teeth grinding. I am waiting for criminalminds response.”

Don’t expect much. All he does is cut and paste from Youtube and The Powell River Persuader.

Here, Here! Criminalmind!

Sheeple only want to hear when the going is good.

I am the Powell River Persuader..

Good Day

Attention JohnnyBelt:

Today’s latest on the never-ending bad news about Enbridge:

“Enbridge failed to fix cracks in leaking Michigan pipeline

Enbridge like ‘Keystone Kops’ in poor handling of pipe rupture, NTSB head says”

(CBC)

Pipelines and cracks! Unbelievable, but true! Quite a reputation!

Enjoy!

Dearth@The other pipelines are different. The one to Vancouver, for instance, doesn’t cross major salmon sources such as the Stuart River and doesn’t put tankers in Douglass Channel and Hecate Strait.

good post ecotruth. build the pip line. i’m all for it.

crim: “I am the Powell River Persuader..”

Oh, weren’t you banned from this site some time ago?

As for the protesters, when you see signs like “Up Your Butt Enbridge”, you pretty much know that intelligent discourse will get thrown out the window and emotion will rule the day.

Lol yah I guess some of the comments are result of livestock excrement contaiminated ‘shroom eaters. Please stick to the science our species has been utilizing bitumen products for over 8,000 years. The Romans tried replacing it with lead piping and we all know how their civilization ended.

First Nations people’s ancestors probably wouldn’t have survived if wasn’t for bitumen, they wouldn’t have been able to waterproof their watercraft, or fixed their arrow and spear heads to their shafts, they wouldn’t have been able to carry baskets of water back to their villages , or maintained fish trap weirs, or have cooking fires, or waterproofed their housing, or used it for healing open wounds, or beautifying their bodies.

Bottom line is there is nothing to worry about, currently there seems to be a lot of political extortion along with the false hysteria. I remember back in the day when people used smell a pulp mill, politely smile and say to foreigners “that’s the smell of money”. Honestly folks the ranchers that are complaining the loudest are pumping manure, and urine every second is what’s going to kill you.

The article on the top is about people making reasoned responses to the proposed project. It is the very intelligent discourse of which you speak JB. Both sides of an argument can make up intelligent discourse.

Once more, characterizing people, whether negative or positive, is not part of intelligent discourse about the subject.

JB, I think I am being fair by saying that you play on emotions of people. I have yet to see you enter into a real debate about an issue. If I am wrong about that assessment, please lead me to at least one post where you took a position and tried to defend it with information which addressed the issue.

Hey, Ecolies.

Nothing like revisionist history I see.

The pitch used to waterproof pre contact birch bark canoes with was typically made from plant resin or rosin, not bitumen.

Even non-North Americans made from pine resin …. google Cutler’s Resin if you want to educate yourself.

The same goes for the rest of your BS …. :-)

Whenever people lived around bitumen, sure, they did not have to “manufacture” it. But it does not happen to ooze out of the ground in too many places in the world.

In fact, where therre were boitumen deposits, it has been found in digs of human habitat up to 40,000 years or more ago.

So criminalminds posts get a pass then. Amazing. I am beginning to see a pattern.

criminalmind there have freighters in and out of Douglas channel since the fifties. Heavy tanker traffic on Puget sound.

criminalmind are you happy with bird eating wind generators, just wondering.

Canada imports 870,000 barrels per day into eastern Canada, fill that need first, refine it in Canada, that would create 1000,s of jobs…

Stephen Harper should make Canada self sufficient first, if Harper was a real prime minister he would take care of the domestic supply first, but unfortunately Stephen Harper is under Chinese influence.

3 years and Harper is gone into the dustbin of failed Canadian leaders..

As for bird eating windmills..

How about the 50,000 square miles of feather dissolving toxic tailing ponds..

Enbridge is dead, the pipeline will be rejected by the NEB..

Harper will overrule, court challenges will run the clock on his last term in office..

Here comes the Big Orange Star Party.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2012/03/big-orange-star-ii.html

“First Nations people’s ancestors probably wouldn’t have survived if wasn’t for bitumen,…”

What a crock! They also wouldn’t have survived if there had not been buffalo herds numbering into the tens of millions keeping busy fertilizing the plains with excrement and urine for hundreds of thousands of years! Nature abounds with natural adhesives and sealants! They wouldn’t have survived???

Now, back to Enbridge and its amazing record of endless oil spills!

Herbster, Alberta has almost 3 times the natural gas production of BC. Your continued statements that the Alberta oil sands are being subsidized by BC gas production is clearly nonsense.

Actually what I said was that oil sands are subsidized by natural gas- that is a simple matter of doing the math. That there is BC gas going to the oil sands is also a fact- and the Northern Gateway capacity could easily be produced by BC gas. That would reflect a $2.7 million/day subsidy from BC to Alberta. If you care to read up on the subject, Spectra energy has an excellent overview of BC Natural Gas

“The National Energy Board’s recent Update to
Short-term Canadian Natural Gas Deliverability 2010-2011 forecasts natural gas
production in British Columbia to increase from approximately 2.65 billion cubic
feed/day (Bcf/d) in 2008, to 3.2 Bcf/d by 2011, a more than 20% increase in production.
Looking further to 2020, Spectra Energy has forecasted that British Columbia’s natural
gas production will increase to approximately 5.0 Bcf/d, or roughly double today’s level.
To put this forecast into perspective, Alberta currently produces approximately 13 Bcf/d,
and this is forecasted to decline to approximately 12 Bcf/d by 2020.
Development of British Columbia’s unconventional natural gas resources will have
significant implications for British Columbia policy makers. The development of British
Columbia’s unconventional resources is at the very early stages, and there is an
opportunity to ensure that these resources are developed in a way that is consistent
with British Columbian’s values and goals.”

So by 2020, BC will be producing at least 38% of Canadas Natural gas. We can either sell it at world price, or we can send it to the Bitumen sands.

I’m missing the subsidy? Gateway is oil, BC has gas. So? There is no question bc will have huge production increases. Oil sands have all they gas they need without BC. I also question that BC gas is routed to the oilsands with ample production much closer. It most certainly is piped through alberta and on to Easter/US destinations. What BC production has done is bring on stream more supply, along with US shale plays, to drop gas prices dramatically. This has lowered costs for oil sand producers. Is this what you mean by subsidy?

gus: “JB, I think I am being fair by saying that you play on emotions of people. I have yet to see you enter into a real debate about an issue.”

Would you prefer that I cut and paste articles from other sites, like many others do? What can I do to please you?

My posts are no different than 95% of the posters on here. A lot of the time, they rub you the wrong way for whatever reason, and that’s why you feel the need to call attention to them. I don’t answer to you or anyone else on here. My posts don’t need to pass whatever criteria you might have for them. Sorry, but you’ll just have to get over it… and yourself.

I’m missing the subsidy? Gateway is oil, BC has gas. So? There is no question bc will have huge production increases. Oil sands have all they gas they need without BC. I also question that BC gas is routed to the oilsands with ample production much closer. It most certainly is piped through alberta and on to Easter/US destinations. What BC production has done is bring on stream more supply, along with US shale plays, to drop gas prices dramatically. This has lowered costs for oil sand producers. Is this what you mean by subsidy?

I support the pipeline.

I don’t support the pipeline

Alberta oil producers want the world price for their product. To get that 10% price increase they are willing to ship their unrefined product across 750 BC water courses, and then onto supertankers that will ply dangerous and ecologically sensitive BC coastal areas. BC (and Alberta) is selling its natural gas at 1/5 the world price in the North American market. Yes that is a huge subsidy to the Bitumen Sands.

http://www.transcanada.com/docs/TransCanada_and_ATCO_pipelines_Asset_Exchange_Factsheet.pdf

Check out the pipeline system. Horn River Mainline goes directly to Alberta.

Here’s what I think if anyone cares… ;)

1) If the Feds want this pipeline it will go through, period

2) No one, for or against, is going to change the other sides mind by posting on this or any other blog. Each side will clap and cheer with the posts they agree with and no one will sway one bit.

3)I spent a few minutes on the P.R. Persuader and I don’t think there is enough tinfoil in the world for all the hats required on there.

interceptor, you are bang on with it.

If the feds want it, its a done deal. The smart first nation people will be looking at, what can we get out of it.

JRP = Just relieving populace. Got to give them somewhere to vent.

JB … I am simply calling your bluff and pointing out that in my opinion statements such as the one you posted regarding “Up Your Butt Enbridge” are no more emotional than you own similar diatribe.

Did you see me anywhere to ask you to stop it? Of course not! Merely voicing an opinion about your post the same way you are voicing an opinion.

Hopefully that is acceptable without going into all those other superfluous condescending details of yours. :-)

Were you the oldest child in your family? ;-)

Bang on interceptor.

As for gus, no hard feelings (as usual).

Some people think that cutting and pasting links from their favorite websites consistutes effective debate and irrefutable proof. I’m not one of those people. I’ve been on the internet long enough to know that much at least.

Interceptor-there are definitely some hard core Harper fans here, that won’t change their minds despite all the evidence you give them. You and He Spoke, for example believe that the feds will do what they want, and nobody can stop them. For the other 70% of the population who are not bedazzled by Harper,and believe in democracy, these forums provide a valuable exchange of ideas.

The Natives will block the pipeline just like they blocked logging at Clayoquot sound and Meares Island.

So with nothing to back up your statements JohnnyB they are nothing more than hot air.

How about the 50,000 square miles of feather dissolving toxic tailing ponds..

So you made my point no big deal if windmills kill birds.

All this oil sand pipeline stuff stated long before Harper.

Petroleum seeps are actually quite common. The Athabasca river and all its tributaries have always picked up oil and there is no evidense that is any worse now than before oil sand developement, link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_seep

•the La Brea Tar Pits, a world-famous oil seep in downtown Los Angeles

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090513130944.htm

I want to know how many of those protesters actually work for a living producing something of value that someone else is willing pay for?

I’m not talking about a way of dividing up the money they receive from different levels of government.

“Attention JohnnyBelt:

Today’s latest on the never-ending bad news about Enbridge:

“Enbridge failed to fix cracks in leaking Michigan pipeline

Enbridge like ‘Keystone Kops’ in poor handling of pipe rupture, NTSB head says”

(CBC)

Pipelines and cracks! Unbelievable, but true! Quite a reputation!

Enjoy!”

It makes no difference to those who hope to gain financially from the construction of this project.

Dragonmaster you forget that Northern Gateway has a $100 million slush fund at least partly financed by the Chinese. There are some amongst us who have already benefited financially.

I wonder what all the naysayers will say if this pipeline gets approved? Will they break their keyboards in frusteration?

Herbster, cheap gas is a function of the markets, it’s no subsidy. When the LNG plants get built, prices will eventually rise, as will costs for the oilsands. Horn river gas, goes through Alberta as does most NE BC gas. That dosen’t mean its destined for FT.Mac. Alberta has the pipeline infrastructure to reach eastern markets. The desire for the LNG industry is the same as gateway to the oilsands. Access to higher global prices.

Dow, cheap gas is a function of the North American market. It does not reflect the world price. Any BC resident with a modicum of business sense, would bemoan the pipeline from Horn river to Alberta. That pipeline should have been built to Prince Rupert for export to markets where the price is 5 times higher.The fact that it takes Apache, EOG, Shell, and other foreign companies to pursue LNG exports show how shortsighted Canadian businesses are. And the fact that we are even considering Northern Gateway shows how myopic our provincial and federal governments are. Lets build the six proposed LNG pipelines first, then we can consider if Gateway deserves to be built. But as usual Harper has it all back asswards.

It makes a huge difference to Quebec attracting capital investors to develop their own oil and gas resources if B.C. pipelines, LNG plants, offshore drilling, northeastern fracking, and hydro dams are delayed any further.   

Quebecers with the NDP’s encouragement already believe they are paying $ 2 billion a year more than what they should for Western Canada’s hydrocarbons, they already
get $17 billion compared to B.C. $5.7 billion in federal transfer payments every year. 

Interestingly Mulcair never brought in a carbon tax to Quebec when he was Environment Minister there, but his ministry did approve Hydro Quebec dam projects falsely claiming they are emissions free and renewable.
Liquified Natural Gas terminals require copious amounts of hydroelectricity for their process.

He approved an environmental assessment for a LNG terminal initially to be used to import Russian, Middle East, North African, Algerian, Venezula anything but Canadian methane; even though it is scientifically proven importing from those countries result in over 6% higher carbon footprint than Western Canada’s stuff being piped past Ontario. 

His department accepted over 400 oil and gas exploration permit environmental assesments including drilling offshore in the St.Lawerence seway home to beluga whales. He also supported bulk freshwater exports amongst other environmental damaging projects.

Odd eh Quebec is allowing all sorts of pipelines, and tanker traffic in their waterways?

Looks like some B.C.ers are getting hoodwinked again lol. The longer the NDP can stall the better for Quebec LNG sales without a provincial carbon tax to boot. This is shaping up to be worse than when the NDP increased stumpage fees by 800%, brought in enough bureaucratic forestry regulations that made Soviet Bloc countries regulations look like a primary reader. The NDP that fuddle duddled around so much the pine beetle voracious appetite allowed them to munch through our forests unabated. 

The Quebec NDP bloc and their merry band of subservive operatives scattered throughout Canada are  so desperate to stop Wetern Canada from getting fair market value for our hydrocarbons, they solicited an economist/dancer to chirp at the hearings. You know that economist with the 23 driver licence demerit points that the NDP hired to jack up everyone’s ickey bickey insurance by 29% then gave themselves free insurance (probably the only way they could get insurance with that type of risk analysis) plus all the car insurance execs got a 14% raise, with bonuses for getting injured humans to settle out of court claims.

You folks that are against having this pipeline built will find out very shortly when the cupboard is bare that maybe you should of been a wee bit more rational, and little less religiously emotional. If you really are passionate about the environment and our species survival perhaps you can pass the words please; if all Canadians stop eating double bacon cheeseburgers we would exceed our target emissions reductions by at least tenfold. Plus you folks up in the Cariboo might want to drink more beer the local brewer will plant a tree for every case you consume, a case still is 12 right, not a two four so that sounds reasonable, and please use the proper facilities when you know what.

Good night take care it was nice chatting with you all.

Herbster, The reason the foriegn companies are pushing for lng export is obvious. World prices. The reason they are foreign, with the exception of Encana and a few others is capital costs. Same as the oilsands, there are few canadian companies large enough to develop these resources on there own. The LNG facilities will be built. They are a seperate issue fom gateway, with the same desire for higher prices and expanded markets.

Ecotruth is the biggest bullshitter on this site..below are links that prove not only is ECOTRUTH a LYING sack of SHIT, it also proves that JB, RUEZ and others who accepted his pure lies to be equally as stunned…Go to hell Enbridge whore, Harper CONBOT lying troll

He has zero links to back up anything, in fact Ecotruth is a Federal Conservative troll.

Provide even one link Ecotruth, you are a bold-faced liar..

Everything you need to know about Quebec natural gas EXPORTS is here, there never was an attempt to import Russian gas..

http://zonecours.hec.ca/documents/H2010-P6-2405951.Case3-RabaskaLNG.pdf

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And Ecoliar`s bullshit on stumpage rates…let me quote..

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“NDP plans hike on forestry stumpage fees
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 1, 2010 | 11:16 AM ET Comments7Recommend8
CBC News

The NDP is promising to hike stumpage fees to log on Crown land and to offer woodlot owners a multi-year silviculture funding package.

New Democratic Party Leader Roger Duguay announced the party’s forestry platform on Tuesday, which included a pitch to review the province’s forestry and land-use policies.

The NDP is also committing to increase the stumpage fees that companies pay to cut trees on Crown land by one per cent if it is elected in the Sept. 27 provincial election. The increase would be added at the time the land-use strategy review was launched.

“By increasing the stumpage fees for harvesting from Crown lands by one per cent we will generate additional revenues in the millions of dollars, with the profits depending on market prices for forest products,” Duguay said in a statement.

Mark Arsenault, the president of the New Brunswick Forest Products Association, said he’s concerned about the NDP’s plan to give private woodlot owners a step up by increasing the price of Crown wood by one per cent.

“By just randomly saying that you’re going to increase the price on Crown, that works against the free-market system and actually could be detrimental to the softwood lumber agreement, which, if we lost those duties and those exemptions, it would be disastrous for the forest industry,” Arsenault said.
Help for woodlot owners

The NDP also announced on Tuesday it would focus its forestry policy on the province’s woodlots and would commit to a multi-year funding program for silviculture.

Andrew Clark, the president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners, said the party’s commitment would help many struggling woodlot owners.”

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nbvotes2010/story/2010/09/01/nbvotes-ndp-forestry-834.html

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as for ICBC, it`s been under BC Liberal control for the last 12 years…

Perhaps you mean Paul Taylor, Gordon Campbell`s right hand man and head of ICBC under the chop-shop and rigged auction scandal..

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“VICTORIA (NEWS1130) – Paul Taylor is back with ICBC, four years after he stepped down as president and CEO during the chop shop scandal.

He will take over as chair of the Board of Directors.

Taylor quit in 2008 after ICBC sold 98 written off cars without letting the buyers know about their crash history.

ICBC offered to buy the cars back, or at least inspect and certify them for people who wanted to keep them on the road.”

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/379314–former-icbc-ceo-returns-as-board-of-directors-chair

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on shipping water, more bullshit from ecoliar..

“Water has been called the oil of the 21st century. It is in ever shorter supply, and its price is rising in thirsty cities and farming regions from the Middle East to the American West. And what Kuwait is to oil, Canada could be to water. President George W. Bush suggested as much before last month’s global economic summit, when he noted that “water will forever be an issue in the U.S., particularly the Western part,” and added, “I look forward to discussing this with Prime Minister Jean Chretien.”

That raised the hackles of Canadian Environment Minister David Anderson, who snapped that the Bush-Chretien discussion will be “brief.” The Prime Minister “will tell the President that we have a policy of not exporting water, and that, I guess, will be it.” Bush’s casual comment, though, lent encouragement to a handful of Canadian entrepreneurs who for years have been promoting schemes to export their country’s plentiful water. “It’s going to happen for sure,” says Gerry White, president of McCurdy Enterprises, a real estate and construction firm in Gander, Newfoundland. “Trying to stop people from selling water is like telling Saudi Arabia not to sell oil.”

White is preparing to invest $24 million in a plan to ship 132 million gal. of pristine lake water every week via specially lined oil tankers to prospective buyers (whom he declines to name) in the Southern U.S. and elsewhere. Canada’s provinces prohibit bulk water shipments, on environmental grounds. Still, White’s prospects have improved with official hints that Newfoundland’s ban might be dropped–and with court challenges arguing that such bans are illegal under terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Says Bill Turner, who runs WaterBank.com an enterprise based in Albuquerque, N.M., that locates new water supplies for cities and industries around the world: “We’re just at the beginning of the boom.”

Even so, the dreams of an H2O bonanza can be maddeningly elusive. During the past half-century, there have been at least nine proposals for large-scale water diversions from Canada and Alaska, including a $100 billion megaproject to pipe water from James Bay in northern Quebec to the Western U.S. and a bizarre scheme for tugboats to tow icebergs to Mexico. Just three months ago, a Greek company, Aquarius Water Transportation, was in Houston trying to interest clients in pumping North American water into rafts the size of football fields and towing them to parched locales around the world–a method Aquarius uses to haul water around the Aegean.

Although bottled water is already a $30 billion global industry, the technological challenge of shipping bulk quantities of freshwater between distant points and distributing it to customers has so far stumped some major would-be players

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1000535,00.html#ixzz20INcGRiL

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And more on the fucking liar extraordinaire Ecotruth..On Drilling in the St Lawrence seaway..How about this MORATORIUM..

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“
Quebec formalizes St. Lawrence moratorium
10/11/2010
By Alan Petzet
Quebec has formalized a moratorium on oil or gas exploration in the St. Lawrence River estuary and Gulf of St. Lawrence.The 2-year ban covers a vast area, from the Saguenay-St. Lawrence River confluence north of Quebec City to the Strait of Belle Isle at the Quebec-Labrador boundary and south beyond the Madeleine Islands.Quebec’s ministry of natural resources and wildlife said no offshore permits would be issued until at least the end of 2012, when environmental studies of the estuary and gulf are to be completed. It said the ban is needed to protect fish and wildlife.Little offshore drilling has occurred in the area subject to the moratorium. One operator said the province hasn’t issued” …

http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-108/issue-38/general-interest/quebec-formalizes-st-lawrence.html

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Yes indeed, the great effing LIAR named ECOTRUTH…Not one word of truth spoken on this site, a Federal Conservative troll and or paid Enbridge pimp, either way Ecotruth..You have just been bested by the Powell River Persuader..

ECOTRUTH is a BOLDFACED LIAR..

GAME–SET—MATCH

A cold day in hell when fools like ECOPUKE (ECOTRUTH) pulls the wool over anyone`s eyes!!!1

Cheers

Canada, Enablers of Stagnation.

We had a chance to change the world but Canada chose to enable stagnation and steal future generation`s birth rite!

As a country we are enormously wealthy, most of the world`s fresh water, a diverse population that`s relatively well educated, thousands of miles of open prairies capable of growing huge quantities of food, we have world famous boreal forests, rain forests inhabited with spotted owls, spirit bears and species still undiscovered, we`re a nation blessed with pristine coastlines that are home to wild salmon, Orca, oysters and countless other delicacies of the sea, our air is still invigoratingly fresh,

As present day caretakers of this great Nation isn`t our number one duty to pass on a country as clean or cleaner than the one we found.

For after all, isn`t that all we really are, caretakers, thousands of generations of civilization and Canada is prepared to roll the dice, in a nano second of earth`s time Canada`s current caretakers are prepared to burn and exhaust every hydro carbon we have, a grand short sighted experiment with the potential to melt the world and possibly bring mankind itself to extinction.

Change must happen, it`s inevitable for hydro carbons are finite, continued expansion and growth is unsustainable, a folly of futility or stampeding buffaloes heading for the cliff, take your pick but either way the ending will be the same, will we be a country with pipelines zig-zagging every which way, Kinder Morgan proposes a double pipe to Burnaby plus a line North, Enbridge wants a Northern pipeline crossing 1200 streams and rivers and plans are for pipelines through the arctic and let`s don`t forget the XL Keystone pipeline south to Texas, here in British Columbia our temporary caretakers want 5 LNG(Liquified Natural gas) plants that will require almost as much electrical energy to operate as the energy we 4 million inhabitants use.

5 LNG plants all needing their own pipelines, 5 LNG plants selling our finite gas as fast as they can would exhaust all our natural gas in 3 decades, what kind of educated thinking society would steal every hydro carbon from future generations before they`re even born, tales of peak oil and if true paints a scenario where if the tar sands were to supply the world`s oil we would need an additional 50 pipelines.

Solid banks, modern cities, educated work-force, many world innovations and medical breakthroughs routinely come from Canada, we have a vast under used manufacturing sector that`s capable of producing the smartest products in the world, we are a civil society that`s already extremely wealthy in comparison to most of the world…..

We are country that has no reason to roll the dice with the future,

My caretaker tells the world that there will be no tar sand expansion, no destruction of groundwater, a wise caretaker tells the world that Canada is moving towards the future and will only maintain current hydro carbon extraction levels and what better way to drive innovation and change the direction of mankind then by removing the crutch of supply, we aren`t broke, we are extremely wealthy so the need for unabated exploitation of finite raw resources isn`t required and my gawd how selfish can we be.

Canada has a chance to drive change, a chance to be a leader, day after day our current caretakers tell us we are the wealthiest nation in the world and if true there is no urgency, no need to panic, no need to spend our finite resources in a nano secoond of time.

We owe it to Stephen Harper`s grandchildren to preserve and protect the water, the air, the land, we owe it to everyone`s children to safeguard the future.

Canada could have forced the world headlong into the 22nd century but unfortunately Stephen Harper, Canada`s current caretaker has chosen to sellout all future generations for the sole purpose of greed, unabated greed driven by oil companies, a caretaker that runs tar sand promotional ads that show pristine eco-systems in a sick n twisted campaign designed to distort and deny, a caretaker hell bent on muzzling scientists and voices of reason while hiding damning evidence of a rapidly deteriorating environment and the only conclusion any reasonable person can come to is..

Greed, power and mental sickness have inflicted the minds of Canada`s current caretakers and without immediate intervention the sickness will prevail to the detriment and possible extinction of mankind itself.

The Straight Goods

Cheers Eyes Wide Open

Quebec Environment Minister in favour of bulk water exports

During a conference organized by the Centre international Unisféra de Montréal, Quebec Environment Minister Thomas Mulcair declared that he was in favour of reviving the debate over bulk water exports from Quebec. According to Mr. Mulcair, it is time to begin thinking of Quebec’s economic interests in matters related to water export.

A debate and a commission of enquiry took place five years ago concerning this subject. After reviewing some 400 reports, the Bureau d’audiences publiques sur l’environnement(BAPE) concluded that bulk water exports should not take place. The Quebec National Assembly adopted a law in 2001 banning bulk water export by truck, train, ship or pipeline. Thus, water could not be considered as merchandise according to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and Quebec would not be obliged to share this resource with foreign interests.

Now, Minister Mulcair is convinced that this law deprives Quebec of millions of dollars in revenue: “…as long as we lose nothing environmentally, if I can bring in billions of dollars with water, without affecting aquatic ecosystems, why should I deprive us–by following a dogma–of the possibility of major economic activity?” declared the minister. He also maintained that concerns about NAFTA are unfounded and that bulk water exports would create jobs in the outlying regions of the province. Furthermore, he added that he would never place Quebec in a position where the resource would be threatened.

A large portion of the population, including environmental groups and the opposition party, are opposed to this statement. Concern remains that massive water withdrawals could reduce the provinces ability to counter disruptions such as those resulting from climate change, affect navigation, render certain municipal water supplies inoperative and, finally, considerably modify aquatic and waterside ecosystems. [Le Devoir, Whales Online] 

The Québec-Vert-Kyoto Coalition Questions the Future of Quebec Energy

In a reaction to recent decisions made by the province-owned Hydro-Québec corporation and the Charest government concerning energy, a coalition has been created by the Union québécoise pour la conservation de la nature (UQCN), the Regroupement national des conseils régionaux de l’environnement du Québec (RNCREQ), the Association québécoise de lutte à la pollution atmosphérique (AQLPA) with the help of militants from the Parti vert du Québec (Quebec’s green party). Several other groups have also joined the coalition, including the Bloc Québécois, the Amies de la Terre, the Fondation Rivières as well as various organizations and citizens.

The Québec-Vert-Kyoto coalition is pushing for in-depth reflection on what is at stake with regards to Quebec energy. According to its 2004-2008 plan, Hydro-Québec aims to develop thermal electricity production as well as oil and gas exploration and production. According to members of the coalition, this proposition represents such a drastic change of course that will “…so profoundly modify Quebec’s future energy policy that it is important that it be given special attention”. If Hydro-Québec truly believes that it is urgent to build new power stations to fulfil increasing energy demands in an economically expanding Quebec, the coalition believes that there is more “…urgency to change course towards energy conservation and ‘green’ solutions such as wind power”. Moreover, Québec-Vert-Kyoto invites the population to a public demonstration to voice opposition to the new direction put forward by Hydro-Québec and the Quebec government. The march is set for next Sunday, February 1, in Montreal.

Presently, the coalition is mostly concerned by the Suroît project: the imminent construction of a natural gas power station in Beauharnois. This project, which the Bureau d’audiences public sur l’environnement (BAPE) judged unfavourably last year, was nonetheless given the go-ahead by Quebec’s Natural Resources and Environment Ministers, Mr. Hamad and Mr. Mulcair. The coalition considers the Suroît project to be in contradiction to Canada’s commitment to the Kyoto Accord. The proposed power station would emit 2.2 million t of greenhouse gases annually; the equivalent of the emissions produced by 600 000 cars. This would increase Quebec’s greenhouse gas emissions by 2.5 percent. In signing the Kyoto Accord, Canada committed itself to a reduction of greenhouse gas emission to levels 6 percent below those recorded in 1990.

[Québec-Vert-Kyoto, RNCREQ, Le Devoir] 

So ecotruth, do we have to worry about cows or Quebecers? Make up your mind!

Why does criminalmind constantly get away with profanity on this site? Are there any moderators around here?

Now it has all boiled down to this: Who is the champion b*llcheater, eco or criminal.

The clip and pastes are getting longer and longer…and it’s all about a pipeline which doesn’t need to be built across B.C. and least of all by a company which caused the biggest oil pipeline (non-tanker) oil spill in history!

Hasta la vista!

Do you need a blankie JB, or a bottle of warm milk?

Oh, I see, you haven`t been hugged lately.

Here`s a cyber/virtual hug Johnny, from my computer to your hard-drive.

Cheers

Yeah, keep it up, crim. Apparently, the moderators don’t care about your personal attacks or your profanity, or that you’ve been banned from the site. Fire away!

Criminal has the balls to call ECO a paid troll. WOW. Coming from him that is rich.