Isn’t the real question how much influence this City’s government has on the pipeline decision?

I suspect it has very little, if any influence. So, the whole thing is moot.

Now, if someone were to conduct a proper study that is not full of hot air, about the environmental, social, and economic effect of a bitumen pipeline across this part of the province as it would impact the various communities adjacent to the pipeline(s), that would be another matter all together.

We happen to have a University whose market area reaches across that entire part of the province and is supposed to have some expertise in area of environmental studies and probably associated studies in social and economic well being of small communities.

I would think that they would be the ones to ask.

Not only that, but they should be the ones to lend support to communities in the area to allow them to take an informed position, if they believe it will make a difference.

BTW, while the City might portray itself as the province’s northern capital, we all know it isn’t.

A capital is a place which governs a territory and thus houses a regional government. Prince George City Council does nothing of the sort. The Regional District of Fraser Fort George has more right to that type of title.

I think what happens in the regions around Prince George drives what happens in Prince George. Prince George makes few, if any, policies which affect the region pf which it purports to be the capital.

BC’s “Northern Crapital”. The “R” has fallen off the sign and wasn’t replaced.

Congratulations Brian Skakun…it’s nice to see a politician that can think for himself.

I wonder how long it will be before the rest of the pack finds the iron will needed to speak their minds rather than those of the puppet master?

Other B.C. town councils have made it clear in public statements what their official position is in regards to the pipeline! So it’s not unreasonable to ask our leaders to do the same! What exactly is accomplished by sitting on the fence?

It just may add to the impression that they don’t have any bells.

I think the pipeline should go ahead. BC has lots of rivers and lakes. We can give up a few so that each British Columbian can get approx $5.00 revenue per year for 30 years. Thats $150.00 dollars free money for each of us over the next 30 years. I don’t know about you, but I am on my way to an investment councillor to see how I can maximize my riches. Oh, and that figure is based on current population, obviously if the population goes up in 30 years the revenue per person will go down.

I understand that we will be paying more money for our own gasoline as a reult of getting access to a more “competitive” market in the rest of the world. Remember, in this case more competitive means higher prices rather than lower process …. LOL … good move Alberta and Canada!!!!! I like the way they think of the people living in this country!!!! Soooo patriotic!!!!!

So the $5/person/year in riches going our way won’t even take care of the differential we will be paying for gasoline derived energy …..

Love your tongue in cheque comment, but….. our cheques to the oil imperialists ……

They need to get that Imperial Oil name back … so fitting. ;-)

Prince George, while you comment would be fitting in other situations, in this case I think I am sticking to my version …. the input from PG and other municipalities means squat to this province and to Canada.

I mean, the province has taken a stand on it now, which is good. I notice few people understand or even care to listen to the stated pre-condition of the pipelines meeting stringent environmental standards before any of the other “demands” would even be discussed.

The one thing I have noticed is that there is absolutely no indication that the province has discussed their position with the municipalities, regional districts and First Nations whose lands these pipelines will be going through and adjacent to. I doubt the NCMA and the BCMA have been approached, either before or after BC’s position has been put forward.

There is, of course, in their eyes, no need because municipalities and regional districts are the children of mother British Columbia. Children do as their parents dictate …….. so why would such a dialogue have to take place? Much too complicated.

It is easy to have “bells” if the words have no authority. :-)

The Mayor could send a memo to the Premiere’s office, drafted in as diplomatic a fashion as possible without losing strength, which basically sends the message that PG City Council would love to provide a position statement to the BC Government if they knew that BC would give it serious consideration …….

Otherwise this City is in no different a situation than the people of the Haldi Rd. area and Hollandia area pleading not to go ahead with the two respective developments …. the City would be guilty of pleading the NIMBY case ….. ;-)

The uni helping communities make an informed decision, ya right. Using biased corrupted science for climate related grants I am sure they are the ones to go to, not.

gus: “Isn’t the real question how much influence this City’s government has on the pipeline decision?

I suspect it has very little, if any influence. So, the whole thing is moot.”

Bingo. End of story. Move along.

gus: “We happen to have a University whose market area reaches across that entire part of the province and is supposed to have some expertise in area of environmental studies and probably associated studies in social and economic well being of small communities.

I would think that they would be the ones to ask. “

Sure. Why not bring in Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and the Sea to Sands people as well. See what they think.

Excellent idea JB …. we all know we can count on your wisdom in such matters.

I sure am glad that so many posters on here appreciate the fact that we have an “Uni” as they refer to it in German. ;-)

They have several Unis in the USA which do not use biased, corrupted science … BYU is a good one, for instance.

“…. the input from PG and other municipalities means squat to this province and to Canada.”

If it means squat why is P.G. afraid to take an official stand? I for one want to know where our elected representatives (the one who are supposed to represent out interests) stand! It may make a difference in the next municipal election! That is why fence sitting is safer for them and that is why it matters – at home!

Brian, thanks for making it clear where you stand, you have my vote!

They take their que from Harper… he says the review board (that he appointed) will make the decision and not politicians… yet says he reserves the right to have his cabinet override any decision by the review board.

Essentially he wants the review board to take the political heat and take the discussion out of the hands of our elected politicians… so long as it goes his way. If it doesn’t, while then that is what the omnibus bill was all about.

By definition, a hypocrite.

Canadians need politicians that represent us in a representative democracy and not a hidden corpocracy agenda that uses appointed fall guys to focus our attention on.

Once again councilor Brian Skakun was the only one to answer the question with out a hint of a waffel. When Brian first canvased for councilman his honesty and sincerity convinced me to vote for him. Now after a number of years have passed and Brians failure in court I still admire mr.Skakuns honesty and conviction in his decisions. As far as the rest of council is concearned they are just a bunch of sheeple IMO.

Prince George …. these are Brian Skakun’s words as quoted above:

1. “I have not been supportive of the pipeline …… ”

There is nothing there that says that he is not supportive now or will not be supporticve in the future. The operative words are, “have not been” NOT “do not support”

A true politician.

2. …… “and have been on record for quite some time that I feel there needs to be more done to deal with these following points.”

So, as with the provincial government, he is not opposed to the pipeline as long as “more is done to deal with the points he mentions.

In fact, his words echo the words of the BC government and those of Albert Koehler.

Yet, Albert Koehler does not get the same accolades that Brian Skakun does.

Time some people learned how to interpret “political speak” …. ;-)

Albert Koehler made it pretty evident he supports CC….he’ll follow her lead and that is why he won’t take a stand. If we wanted our city run out of Victoria we would elect someone from there. Fail!

filiGUSter
Accurate as always :). The Beatles named an album that sums up politicians….RUBBER SOUL!

Jim13125 wrote as one of the first posters on here: “Congratulations Brian Skakun…it’s nice to see a politician that can think for himself.”

And how do you determine someone is thinking for himself when he takes the same position as the BC Government? He has free will, the same as everyone else. Everyone, when they speak, thinks for him and herself. If agreeing with someone or some organization means that one is not thinking for themselves, this world would be in a bad situation trying to come up with billions of distinct positions.

In reality, “thinking for themselves” all too often means opposing the thinking/position of the majority.

That is preposterous.

For the thinkers on this site (LOL):

Learning to think for yourself means getting outside of your box of known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knows and unknown unknowns and explore the possibilities beyond the options.

Go for it ….. the alternative is brain death …. ;-)

A liberal following a liberal……….

You are right Gus I believe I did give Brian Skakun more credibility than what was due to him. I opologize. You’re right to listen to politicians more closely than common folk and be on guard as to what they realy mean. It is my hope that Brian does learn to speak to us voters with the language that is more common to the voter. He still carries more of my respect than most of the council.

As Reported: “”Councillor Albert Koehler was reluctant to comment at this time, saying “I may have a position but I would rather be able to convince council to take a position so at the moment I would like to not say too much. I am in favour of the pipeline myself but certainly only if the environmental review process is fully in support, and I support pretty well what Christy Clark said so far.” “”

I ‘may’ have a position…I’d like to ‘convince council’…’I am in favour of the pipeline myself’….’I support pretty well what Christy Clark said so far’….

Talk about mixed messages….:-)

I agree with you on your last sentence, Surefire.

I wish more Councillors would speak and act with even 25% of the strength and conviction they have while they are speaking at election time. To me there is a considerable difference when most speak about what they will do if they are elected and what they say they will do after they are elected.

Far too many change their tune after they are elected.

Question from Gus:””And how do you determine someone is thinking for himself when he takes the same position as the BC Government? He has free will, the same as everyone else. Everyone, when they speak, thinks for him and herself.””

Usually when they say that they ‘may’ have a position…and then state a position that mirrors a political leaders. The actions of a follower not a leader. :-)

Remember, there are some strange people who actually do not make up their mind instantaneously. That is a sure sign of someone who does a bit of reserach to inform themselves as well as they can before they take a position.

On the way to establishing their position, they go through a thought process which typically involves several iterations. I know, that may be strange to you, Jim13135.

Believe it or not, one of the options is to take no stand. It is a viable option especially when taking a stand is completely meaningless since it will not change the outcome of the issue. In fact, taking a stand in such a situation is simply political posturing.

So, the way I read “may” is that he has not decided yet whether he will take a stand or not. In fact, he states that he personally is in favour of the pipeline and follows the thinking of the BC Government.

BUT … this question was in the context of asking City Councillors. The feds can take a position, the provinces can take positions (especially with respect to the lack of a national energy policy which is the big picture driver of whether to build a pipeline and where to build it to), so can regional districts as well as municipalities.

Thus, as a Councillor, one has to step beyond one’s personal feeling. If there is a position that Council takes, this is not a matter of a vote of conscience; this is a matter of a vote that deals with the environmental, social and economic well being of the City of Prince George.

He has not decided whether he will have a position in that regard and, if he will, what that position will be. It MAY very well be different than his personal position. If it is, I will applaud him or anyone else for taking a community position rather than voting based on a personal decision.

well here in Smithers we’ve got a great mayor and town council, we’ve said NO ENBRIDGE. We need all the voices, the people of the north, the town councils, the politicians who represent us in Victoria and Ottawa to help stop Enbridge. Every voice counts, and we’ll need ’em cause we are up against the Government of Canada, Big Oil, the Government of China and a media like “PostMedia” who own half of the newspapers in Canada all supporting Enbridge, a formidable group of oppemts with all the power and all the money. Please PG, we have got to get our voices out there and be as strong as possible to stop Enbridge.

The Municipalities can say whatever they want about Enbridge, but it’s just political posturing. They can’t veto the project.

As I wropte before, it is a very similar situation to all public input processes to government decision making processes such as ourt very own public hearings at City Council … don’t want a residentioal property rezoned to commercial in the Hollandia area, show up with an overwhelming majority to oppose it, and you q ….. sort of reminds

Sorry … tried to enter the wrds directly into the text box and end up hitting some hotkey for posting …… :-(

Here is the edited intended post.

As I wrote before, it is a very similar situation to all public input to government decision making processes such as our very own public hearings at City Council … don’t want a residential property rezoned to commercial in the Hollandia area, show up with an overwhelming majority to oppose it, and you will see very quickly that the neighbourhood residents do not have a veto power.

You do that a few times, and the public gets very jaded.

Let’s face it, vote in Harper or anyone else …. and you essentially get a “dictatorship” of sorts put in under a democratic system. The same goes for all levels of government. The province and the city are no exceptions.

keithcumming ….. I love Smithers and its people.

All those letters come to our City Council and go into the correspondence section of the Councl Agenda. I scratch my head often wondering why not one single Councillor seems to question whether PG should not take a position as well. The province has gotten off the fence. It is time that this City did as well, even though it may not do a thing in the end.

We want to be capital of the north … then show it. Say yes, say no, say maybe …. it really does not matter, but say something.

Skakun responded to 250, but he has said squat in front of Council. Koehler has spoken to 250 as well and he seemed to indicat he wants to influence Council through lobbying.

Come on Councillors and Mayor, you can do better than that. Have an open debate in public where it belongs.

gus: “Come on Councillors and Mayor, you can do better than that. Have an open debate in public where it belongs.”

The process is to show up in front of the federal JRP and make a case. Anything outside of that is great political theatre and a lot of hot air.

Face it, the pipeline is likely coming in one form or another.

I think council should declare PG a nuclear free zone while their at it.

Why would anyone beleive that the situation on this pipeline would be any different if Ignatieff the **Liberal** got elected , or for that matter, some unknown NDPer from Quebec. Who ever was, or is the Prime Minister will probably have to make the ultimate decision.

Do people want us to beleive that if some Company other than Enbridge were to build the pipeline it would be safer??

The BC Liberal Government has already indicated that it will support the pipeline if the **money** is there. I suspect that the First Nations would also.

So what do we have. A bunch of no names making dire predictions based on hearsay, and voodoo economics. Most people couldnt correctly answer six questions about this pipeline. Mostly we get tonnes on BS.

As an example. How many rivers, and streams, were crossed when we built the Trans Canada pipeline from Alberta to Ontario??? Probably as many as will be crossed from Alberta to Kitimat.

How many people complained about the Trans Canada pipeline in the early sixties?? Try none for starters, then move on to **very few**.

There are too many wishy washy people in BC, who cannot or will not look at all aspects of a project before making up their minds.

I personally dont give a s..t if they build this line or not, however because of my age, it wont make any difference to me. For those people who are younger, and need jobs to survive, they might want to give this project support. At the end of the day, you need to work to buy food.

For all the computer nerds, I say, put some ketchup on your computer, and try to eat it, if that doesnt help, then get a shovel and start to grow some food.

Talk is cheap, action speaks louder than words.

Have a nice day.

“The process is to show up in front of the federal JRP and make a case.”

Yes it is. I thought with all your great knowledge, JB, you would know that no one on Council can speak for the City unless they make a recommendation to that effect. In order to do that someone would have to make a motion, it would have to have a seconder, and then they can debate it and take a vote.

The result may be one of many. One would be for a representative such as the Mayor or City Manager to make a presentation to the JRB.

Of course, each Councillor and Mayo could go independently, but they could not go as an official representative of the City.

A stronger representation wouild be a joint presentation of the northern municipalities. But hey, that would mean organizing such a thing. I do not see anyone from the Capitol of Northern BC having such organizing abilities. I mean, staff gets paid to do such things, but not Councillors. ;-)

“Do people want us to beleive that if some Company other than Enbridge were to build the pipeline it would be safer??”

Yup….. remember the Pinto …. ;-)

“For all the computer nerds, I say, put some ketchup on your computer, and try to eat it”

LOL … for all the luddites I say try to find some ketchup that is not made with the use of computer agriculture, computer assisted lab analysis, computer assisted process design, computer assisted manufacturing, computer assisted transportation, computer assisted bookkeeping, etc. etc.

This video shows the difference between how ketchup is made without computers and how it is made with the assistance of computers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkQPJajBHI

Now, do you want to see how cars are made? … how about airplanes?

gus: “The result may be one of many. One would be for a representative such as the Mayor or City Manager to make a presentation to the JRB.”

About that, pretty much all that I’ve seen and heard so far is a lot of chest-beating and emotion. This will not sway the JRP.

And gus, tone down the condescension.

If you want to be a nerd
Why don’t you try a little defying
It gets you high
Why be shackled to your feet
When you’ve got things
You haven’t used yet
Don’t wait for heaven
Get out and try

Sung to the tune from Easy Rider “If you want to be a Bird”

“And gus, tone down the condescension.”

And what exacly would you call what you are doing JB?

Brian Skakun….when the times comes will you stand on the blockades to stop this proposed pipeline?

“As an example. How many rivers, and streams, were crossed when we built the Trans Canada pipeline from Alberta to Ontario??? Probably as many as will be crossed from Alberta to Kitimat.”

Is that pipeline transfering Oil Sands bitumen? Remember regular crude is a breeze to clean up compared to the oil sands crap. People still can’t go home to their property from the spill in the Red Deer River.

“How many people complained about the Trans Canada pipeline in the early sixties?? Try none for starters, then move on to **very few**.”

They used to test nukes above ground and actually had troops run towards the blast. Just because it was done then doesn’t mean it should be done now.

“There are too many wishy washy people in BC, who cannot or will not look at all aspects of a project before making up their minds.”

The only wishy washy people in BC are the ones that think Enbridge will change their ways in regards to safety and maintenance of this pipeline. Remember this is a company that knew about cracks in the pipe near Kalamazoo as early as 2005 and did nothing to fix it. DID NOTHING TO FIX IT.

No one lost their job at Enbridge as a result of that spill. The company has no morals and there is still a mess down there.

City councils position on the pipeline has no more weight than the rest of us. To me this article is filler

I seen a guy in the parking lot of walmart on the weekend with the same truck as me. I walked up and asked him if he wanted to buy my matching canopy because I’m going to sell my truck soon. He looked at it and said yes he’d buy it… then asked how much lol. I told him $1500, as I paid $2500 for it. He said sold when ever I’m ready to sell and gave me his business card… turns out he is the lead negotiator for oil and gas developments for the Sioux nation in Alberta… maybe in BC to put pressure on the local bands I’m not sure? I found his negotiating strategy interesting….

Gus. If the power goes out, you better have a plan two (2)

Most of the points you made about computers were invented to get rid of people and to reduce costs, and increase profits. Nothing good to any of it, mostly just marketing BS.

The possible exception would be engineering, however we are still trying to figure out how they built the pyramids. Seems our fancy computers havent solved this problem yet. The Romans did pretty well when it came to building, and water and sewage systems.

This so called reliance on computers is mostly BS/. A computer is only as good as the information that is programmed.

I used to communicate with people in New York in the early sixties on what was then called a teletype machine. You just dialed the number, rang the bell, and started to talk to each other on line. Not much different than what we do now. So whats the big deal??