It seems odd to me that this has not happened a lot in previous years if dust is the problem. I have my doubts about the sawdust thing even though it is a possibility. Natural gas sounds like a better answer as does any type of LPG fumes.

Big Bore,

There are allot of outside issues. 1st, lets look at this fire reported in this report. My 1st question is would we have heard about it if it were not for Babine and Lakelands? My point is with these fires up here there is a stronger awareness. The fire reported here could have been caused by many things, the fact that it appears it happened off shift leads me to believe it was not a dust explosion.

Lakeland and Babine could very well have been dust, the signs point that way. The question should be what has changed from a few years ago to now? Is the wood drier, has the cleanup’s lessened, has there been changes in the equipment or production?

Many things can change and have a dire effect, I guess the job is to determine what has changed.

The mill that caught fire deals exclusively with Red Cedar

Clear even in dust form is very difficult to catch fire in wood form it’s damn hard to mak it catch fire even under ideal circumstances my guess is that it was equipment that over heated as many sawmills in the US still operate with equipment from as far back as the 1960’s very few are what. Would call modern mills as many US companies find it cheaper to operate on old tech rather than spending upwards of 300million upgrading

It sounds to me that Wash state fire would be a differant source than Dust …. I have zero doubt hta dust is the cause of the extensive devestation of the Babine and Lakelake mills. espcially in an effort to save coin and their healthy bonus’ the Mgrs have scaled back clean up crews to almost non-existant

Waldun Forest Product in Maple Ridge burnt down last night also.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/

Cedar is quite volatile, Dearth. Dry cedar from snags even more so. It’s what kindling is usually made from on the Coast. It’s easy to ignite, unless sopping wet. Dry cedar dust is explosive, even worse than dry pine. But I think you’re right about the likely cause; could well have been overheated equipment.

Mary’s River Lumber is a specialty products operation and their equipment would be considered old fashioned in comparison to most BC mills employing that many people. They simply don’t have the wood supply there, (that they can access ~ there’s lots of timber, just being able to get it is the problem), to spend millions on upgrading. And there wouldn’t be much point regardless, considering the type of products they’re making. The old equipment would be hard to improve upon.

One mill around Corvallis, Oregon, cuts large long timbers, and is still powered by a steam engine that was new in 1905! The setter still rides the carriage, and moves the logs according to hand signals he receives from the sawyer. 40 foot 12×12’s seem to be their stock in trade, and they’re the only place left that can cut a log into timbers up to 110 feet in length. Still a market for that stuff ~ a lot of railway trestles in the US southwest and Mexican desert country are still made out of wood. Steel expands and contracts too much with the changes in temperature.

How about suspecting a “sawmill bomber”?

Albus Antiquus Vir …. you are analyzing this too much … JohnnyBelt has the answer for you … there was a spark, it ignited some stuff, and the places went up in flame …. and none of then had sprinkler systems …..

And a number of people will confirm that it has nothing to do with global warming since it does not exist …. ;-)

to AAV’s point about reporting .. I think he is right on with that.

I am not sure whether we ever heard about this fire last year in Maple Ridge …

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/huge-fire-erupts-at-maple-ridge-lumber-mill-1.685872

They deal with cedar and produce cedar shakes ….

Some may be interested in this article based on industry production and loss figures from pre 2012 stating that:

“Over the years, large, high profile losses have been seen by the entire underwriting community.

This … has diminished their interest in working in this class of business…. “

“During the first quarter of 2011, there were a number of sawmill fires in Western Canada”

http://www.forestnet.com/LSJissues/Jan_12/insurance.php

That’s right, gus. Some long time insurers of sawmills are distancing themselves from that business in the US, and I think the same would be true in Canada. Kind of ironic in that virtually all modern sawmills are constructed of steel, are fully sprinklered, and yet still manage to burn. Makes you wonder how they ever managed in days of yore when a mill constructed with a steel framework would’ve been the exception, and almost all were in wooden buildings, often without any sprinklers at all. They did usually whitewash the interior though, which helped prevent any dust fires from burning the structure, or at least was supposed to.

Socred,

Back in the day allot of older mills went up in flames, there just wasnt much of a media presence to report it.

Eco-terrorists?

Doubtful, Eagle. Probably like Albus says, the media is more attuned to that kind of story right now. Like the prank caption under the Exxon gas station sign said, “Where’s all the media when we don’t spill anything?”

Not only the media, put in several different key words into U-tube and you will find more mill fires that are captured by local onlookers that simply remain local stories …. a small mill fire that puts a 100 local people out of work and is a $5 or so million fire is not all that improtant … it’s the big ones which get the provincial and national attention ….

Hey Gus, Isee you are anexpert on lumber mills as well as many other things. Tell us have you ever been in a sawmill?

Socred, Mac and Blo had ( Chemainous) one steam powered head rig in the late 60’s. It was by far rhe faster along side two electricl driven mills.

I dont recall the length of the logs but I do recall they were hugh in diameter.There certainly was not a dust problem. The breeze off the inlet blew throough the mill and took all the duist with it. And I have to say it was kind of a fun place to work. Things were much more laid back in those days.

The some of the lnogshoremen that loaded the ships from Japan and around the world would haul their beer from dock side on the cranes into the holds of the ship. Why there were no accidents is hard to explain.
Cheers

I think you’re referring to a steam “shotgun” feed on the carriage, aren’t you Retired? The mill in Oregon had a two cylinder reciprocating steam engine with about an eight foot flywheel flat-belted to a line-shaft that actually powered their band headrig and a large bull edger. About 500 hp output all told. Another small two cylinder steam engine was used to pull the carriage back and forth by driving a cable feed. I believe the previous Chemainus mill used steam to generate electricity with steam turbines, and likely for a steam “shotgun” feed, which were wickedly fast. I saw one operate once at the old Sandner Bros. Lumber mill at Christina Lake, and talk about move!

Makes quite a difference in eliminating a lot of dust if the logs are coming out of a pond, or like at Chemainus, right out of the salt-chuck. Don’t know how many BC mills would still be fed from a pond, or river, or lake now, but I doubt there’d be very many in all the Interior, and maybe none at all around Prince George anymore. Of course some dry-deck mills likely sprinkle their logs, which would help some, too.

Just noticed your post and your spelling is also better then mine. your right they did call it a shotgun carriage and that was the extent of steam used for operations at that time.

I do recall being in the steam plant but I dont recall if they were still producing electricity.

I spent two years at Chemaianus as an elecrician, In the late 60’s the mill was old and some of the equipment was obsolete in those days and I was young and had to move on.
Cheers

“Tell us have you ever been in a sawmill?”

Many times, actually.

The first, oldest and smallest one I was ever in was in Huntsville, Ontario. Compared to the peckerwood they produce in this part of the world, the logs they were handling were huge. They could easily produce those fashionable 4 foot wide slab tables in that mill.

When I came here I had a very early tour of the Lakeland Mill since at that time it was one of the most modern. I still have some of the drawings of the mill I was given at that time.

Since then I also saw the mill at Whitecourt, which I can easily say was the cleanest mill I have seen. Also one of the Irving mills to the south east of Fredericton, and the mill at Burns Lake.

They had just installed the newest optimizer there which was hooked in with lumber spot prices in Chicago and assisted the decisions process of what sized lumber they would cut from the logs as they came in.

To be honest, I was more interested in the computer assisted manufacturing process and the rest of the automation which resulted in a reduction of the number of people required and the amount of physical labour copmpared to mechanized labour.

I recall the Whitecourt mill required less than 10 people per shift on the production end of things and an equal number on maintenance. I think their production was over 400,000 m3/year which makes it about twice the size of Lakeland, I think.

Not sure if that counts in your mind.

And yes, I have worked on production lines in paper mills to make some good money during summer months while at school. So I am no stranger to the general environment of large mills and the workers in those mills.

So what was your point, retired 02? :-)

I just wanted to impress you with the knowledge that I have of sawmills which is something that you do all the time.

And maybe you were intersted in computerized operations well let me tell you that I installed some of those sysetms and maintained them as well

Probably all you ever did was cleaned the floor. To me your just a big bullshitter who never gets tired of his own bull and thats my point.
Cheers

Have only seen pictures and the outside of the previous mill at Chemainus, Retired 02. Never did get to go through it. Canadian mills seem to be a lot more reticent to allow tours of their plants than American mills often are. So I don’t know if the Chemainus steam plant was still generating electricity in its last years or not. It may have been more cost effective to sell most of their hog fuel and other wood waste to Harmac and buy line power from BC Hydro. I don’t know whether they did any kiln drying at Chemainus, though the may well have since they did have a large covered lumber storage shed, and they did produce a lot of upper grade lumber there at one time. So maybe the steam was used for that, too.

You sure changed over the last couple of years Retired 02.

What has made you so bitter?