who is paying for this little trip?

I’d rather pay a bit to hear her ideas than to pay when a pipeline spills.

“who is paying for this little trip?”

probably not the same people/companies who were/are paying for Colin Kinsley’s and others with similar intents “little trips”

“who is paying for this little trip?”

You are, of course.

“In addition, she believes Canada will lose an opportunity to capture value-added potential, in an environmentally responsible way, through the processing of the raw bitumen here.”

This tired old argument? There hasn’t been a refinery built in Canada in almost 30 years, and if there was a way to make it economical, don’t you think the ‘greedy’ oil companies would’ve figured out how to do it?

How much is this costing the Ammericans?

The most interesting part of her analysis relates to Enbridge’s insurance, or lack thereof. As a former head of ICBC, that shoild carry some weight.

“Allan noted in her submission that Enbridge Energy Partners, the limited partnership that operates the Michigan pipeline that ruptured in 2010, filed a document with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission which underscored the limitations of insurance in the pipeline industry.

The company told shareholders in 2010 that it “can make no assurance that the insurance coverage we maintain will be available or adequate for any particular risk or loss or that we will be able to maintain adequate insurance in the future at rates we consider reasonable.” In addition, “a substantial uninsured loss could have a material effect on our financial position.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/smart-shift/fp/Pipeline+risk+taxpayers+ICBC+boss/6892483/story.html

I would like anyone out there, especially JohnnyBelt, who I suspect is merely a paid enbridge shill, to refute the argument below.

If we accept that

1) The oil sands have proven to be the second largest reserve of oil in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands
2) We are reaching or past peak oil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil The international energy agency stated that 2006 was the year this happened.
3) Even Warren Buffet is buying oil stocks and selling off others http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/company-focus/2012/08/16/351089/Buffetts-investment.htm
4) Oil prices will continue to skyrocket (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crude_oil_prices_since_1861_(log).png

We must conclude that ANY government (especially one that has a reputation for being in the pockets of businesses), that didn’t do everything in its power to keep most of the benefits of that oil in Canada would be traitorous. I urge all to read http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/08/15/Norway-Vs-Canada/ to see what a great approach Norway has taken with oil companies.

The purpose of the government is not to help make oil companies ‘economical’ or to make them money. The purpose of the government is to (in a properly functioning democracy) bring the most benefits to to the most people in that country. To do otherwise is to be traitorous.

CSIS WARNED (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2010/06/22/spying-csis.html) that our politicians were being bought out by China.

A quite reasonable conclusion from all of this is that not only is the Northern Gateway not wanted by most people in BC, it is traitorous of Harper’s government to allow it in its current form.

We have the 2nd most valuable resource in the world and all we can think of is to send it to China as quickly as possible. I’m no economist but in this case something sure smells. Lets hope its not the bitumen leaking.

Sorry for the typo’s – should really have cut and paste from a proper word processor.

It is not hard to make the case that Harper is a traitor. Why is there no effort to send this oil to Eastern Canada? And look at his absolute silence in the Quebec election, with the Parti Quebecois predicted coming to power.

“There hasn’t been a refinery built in Canada in almost 30 years,…”

Not a good argument!

It’s about time that we start building some, enough to refine all the hydrocarbon fuels BEFORE we export them!

Harper got his majority! Actually he doesn’t have to listen to anybody! As long as the NDP is exclusively focused on demonizing the Liberals he has a free ticket!

“and if there was a way to make it economical, don’t you think the ‘greedy’ oil companies would’ve figured out how to do it?” … your right, they did find a way to mke it economical…ship it to a country that pays slave labour wages. That is the only reason things like refineries and a lot of other manufacturing is not in this country anymore. And our govt is cowardly complacent about lost opportunities in this country.

had to post this http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/29/news/companies/big-oil-gas-price-response/index.htm – yes there are too high of profits. In the banking industry it’s called usury.

When the 1% of the population rips off the 99%, and that 1% mostly lives in China, its not hard to see why true Canadians should be annoyed at this shell game (ya, sick pun).

We’re the wealthiest country in the world, per capita. Why are we having to cut jobs, benefits, health care and education…… Canadians should never be wealthier than in the next 20 years. Do you feel you’re well taken care of?

I couldn’t have said it better than apoliticalgeek.

Build the refineries in Canada.

Bitumen pipeline is exactly the same as raw log exports. Means to extract the natural resources (that belong to us and our children) with the least possible investment.

Why is our government so eager to give it all away? Kickbacks?

apolitical: “I would like anyone out there, especially JohnnyBelt, who I suspect is merely a paid enbridge shill”

I like how accordinag to some, anyone who supports the project must be a paid shill. Does that mean anyone against it must be an eco terrorist, paid by Greenpeace and other such organizations?

The unfortuate reality is that he refinery business is costly and low-margin, partially due to Canada’s high labour costs and stringent regulatory environment.

Eastern Canada has refineries that now import over 850,000 barrels/day from unethical oil sources in the Middle East, and pay world price for the privilege to do so. Build a pipeline east so that all of Canada has safe and secure oil supplies, keep refinery jobs here and ensure Alberta gets a better price for its oil.

Is Harper a Canadian Quisling? His constant drive to export unrefined bitumen to Asia would suggest so.

johnnybelt says “This tired old argument? There hasn’t been a refinery built in Canada in almost 30 years, and if there was a way to make it economical, don’t you think the ‘greedy’ oil companies would’ve figured out how to do it?”

People need to think about this theory.
When fuel is in limited supply it costs more and when it is abundant, then it costs less. Yes johnnybelt they are greedy oil companies and yes this restricted supply of fuels in Canada makes them a lot of money and costs us a lot more extra than it should.

People also need to think about the theory that if we were to ramp up refining in Canada that it would automatically equate to lower gas prices. It wouldn’t.

Gas prices are only going one way, and that’s up.

I think you missed the class on supply and demand. Canada has a glut of oil (for now)and a shortage of refinery output.

Just imagine the future of where we are headed in this energy world we are being directed towards.
Enbridge/Northern gateway and Kinder Morgan go ahead shipping bitumen to the Pacific and then to Asia and I think that would make it about 1 million barrels total a day from our west coast.
And then Keystone also goes ahead which adds another 400,000 barrels per day or so they say. Once these pipeline right of ways are approved then it is doubtful that they are not planning to add more pipelines to these approved routes as what Kinder Morgan is doing. That is important to anticipate in all this as to how Canada could ever limit the amounts of oil or gas exported in the future.

Add that to the 3 large proposed LNG plants and pipelines if they are built fast enough to beat the competition to the market. Do we need to worry about timing of when this is built when it is Asian partners who not only will own a big share in the pipelines but the LNG plants as well as the rights to the gas and oil/bitumen itself? Just a question. Who decides when a well is drilled or how much and when their country needs this/their energy shipped to themselves? China already owns 20% (once the sale of Nexen goes through “officially”) of the oilsands and keeps adding to that share as well as ownership of natural gas in Canada.

This is different than conventional free market commerce as it is for countries such as China the owning and controlling a foreign energy resource for its own domestic purposes and energy security.
Canadians are the nicest people.. ever.

Then add the energy which the oilsands consume to produce the bitumen and that is said to be as much as 35% of what is sold. The story goes that for 3 barrels of oil to start with, it takes one barrel (or energy equivalent) to produce the other two barrels for sale. So it means that if 1 million barrels are piped and sold, it required 1.35 million barrels equivalent to be removed from Canada’s energy inventory.
They won’t be burning oil to extract/produce bitumen because natural gas is a fraction of the price and we are told that we also have endless supplies of this as well. I guess when this vast amount of energy is burnt in Canada to produce the bitumen for export is why they call this “dirty oil”.
Moving bitumen also requires enormous volumes of natural gas liquids that are said to be both domestically available and also said to be needed to be imported. Rest assured we will allow the exploration and development of this too wherever possible and to the maximum extent required by never ending increases tied to oil shipments.

Add to that, the story of the BC Hydro Site “C” dam being needed to be built on the Peace river so as to supply the LNG plants with “green energy” as well as electrify the gas fields of northeast BC…”because its green”
So its way cheaper and easier for the people of BC to dam another river and subsidize and electrify the producing and the exporting of natural gas. BC Hydro says to its BC customers that we need to pay for the cost of this dam because we use cell phone chargers too much and its needed and its green energy.

So once most of the rest of what we think of as “our” precious and non renewable natural energy resources are sold and permitted to be exported at whatever rate the foreign owners wish it to be removed from this country, then where do we stand?

Canada is not the only country selling off some of its resources to China.

http://www.morningwhistle.com/html/2012/IPOs_Offerings_0904/213826.html

Australia is selling one of its biggest cotton farm to Chinese investors, in this case the textile industry. This also includes enormously valuable water rights…

The Prime Minister, and our Priemiers are all from the same treasonous ilk. At the end of the day their only interest is how much short term cash have they made. As opposed to hows well did they serve the constituents of this country. Canadians are making as much money as they can in order to gas up their vehicles while they could be buying cheap fuel and have cash for houses, new vehicles, child care,better health care, better education, research and development ect.

The Prime Minister, and our Priemiers are all from the same treasonous ilk. At the end of the day their only interest is how much short term cash have they made. As opposed to hows well did they serve the constituents of this country. Canadians are making as much money as they can in order to gas up their vehicles while they could be buying cheap fuel and have cash for houses, new vehicles, child care,better health care, better education, research and development ect.

woodchipper: “I think you missed the class on supply and demand.”

So did all of the gas stations, who by some coincidence can somehow change gas prices within 5 minutes of one another. When was the last time you remember a gas war?

Let’s not be naive, gas prices are set on what the market will bear, regardless of supply.

“gas prices are set on what the market will bear”

If that were true, then tell us why they would not slowly or quickly bring the price up to, say, $1.53.

Where is the next nearest gas station outside of the normal comuting distance for people? People would have to spend at least 45 minutes return driving at the cost of burning up the differential cost of gssoline to places in Hixon and Bednesti, if that ever gets going again.

The “market” has no choice …. other than riot and spend time in jail. So, as far as I can tell, they are really not testing that theory very much.

“If that were true, then tell us why they would not slowly or quickly bring the price up to, say, $1.53.”

There’s no reason why they can’t. Many people would still have to buy it. Some might choose a different vehicle or use less gas, or have less to spend on other things. Everyone’s tipping point is different.

“The unfortuate reality is that he refinery business is costly and low-margin, partially due to Canada’s high labour costs and stringent regulatory environment” .. its ONLY a reality because the people who are charged with looking our for the public good are a bunch of self serving lying thieves. Where is a LHO when you need one?

In the spirit of what this post originally began as the bottom line is why Canadians are being charged to death for energy while everyone else is looking after their own interests.
We can divest control of our energy resources, grant them the unrestricted ability to remove it to foreign countries, but we cannot look after price fixing in our own backyards.
For a so called energy superpower we are hosed from every angle when it comes to buying what should be our own energy here in Canada. We have a huge glut of domestic oil but no way to refine any more of it because throttled production helps prices be controlled at highest possible levels.

This isn’t about gas wars at our pumps, it is about the breaches of competition laws within this country. Other than a few feeble attempts by senate committees, our governments have done nothing to fix this.
When a refinery in Alberta has a hickup in production we feel this in price hikes and even fuel shortages or even no fuel available at all.

So johnnybelt if it makes it better to have more refineries and real competition oversight rather than overpriced fuel and fuel shortages then that is what we should demand from governments before we approve foreign pipelines.