Maybe I’m missing something, but why are they building this when there is a surplus of vacant office space in this town? Is this another taxpayer funded makework projct?

Our city has a lot of people on the payroll who have to justify their jobs, thus the city undertakes a lot of work that should be contracted, it would save money in the long run.
Having said that, this new building is contracted out.
Of course the building is being built for the convenience of certain city workers, not for any other legitimate reason.
Oh, and good luck on your pipe dream Leland, that of having the building ready for occupancy by the end of October.
Lighten up, man.
metalman.

The existing offices are right in the way of the big green space between downtown and the river(see the Official Pipe Dream aka City Center Prospectus) The city also will spend a few hundred k a year buy up other land along this corridor.

My guess is that all of the people reading this will be worm food long before anything like the conceptual drawing actually happens.

The project was so poorly planned that paving around the new building and parking lot was not even in the budget and is a line item in next years budget. I wonder if this comes out of the paving budget meaning a couple hundred thou less spent on the streets:(

“Maybe I’m missing something, but why are they building this when there is a surplus of vacant office space in this town”

There might just be some similarity in the repsonse to the question: “why do people buy houses or condo apartment when there are lots of them to rent?”

Perhaps we should sell City Hall to someone and rent a space somewhere else. Or mayb we could just sell it to someone and enter into an agreement to lease for 25 years.

I mean, this ownership business is the pits, isn’t it? We should not be removing the opportunity for private corporations to excell from the leasing of space to public enities.

We should do the same with hospitals, police, firehalls, the whole yard, leasing of vehicles and other major equipment …..

After al, that is what corporate Canada does, so what they are doing must be right. Right?

The official pipe dream (and I really do not know what that looks like in detail) is quite differnt from what the official pipe dream was when I moved here in 1973.

At that time the Patricia Bld. right of way had been created which would take HWY 16 east and connect it to Patricia to send non-truck traffic away from the industrial First Avenue (which would remain as the truck route) and via a 4 lane wide boulevarded street directly past City Hall, Library, etc. onto 15th Avenue with options to head west via Queensway or Victoria.

The escarpment from Millar subdivision would still be a linear, green walk/bike trail to connect with the Heritage River trail along the Fraser and Nechako.

That “dream” was given a blow when the River Rd. overpass was built only to overpass the railway rather than also First Avenue. It was given a second blow two administrations ago when they were going to designate that as a truck route and, instead of that, they killed the road. At least that is the way I recall it. It might not be that way at all.

I know one thing, the original plan made eminent sense and still does. Forty years have passed since then. As lonesome sparrow says …. Don’t hold your breath for anything to happen any time soon.

We have no City Manager, we have no planner, we have no one on Council who has the faintest clue of urban planning, let alone the history of the various plans we have gone through, and, especially how to make good decisions and implement them in such a way that the least amount of spinning wheels occurs. Spinning wheels leads to unnecessary expense and lack of direction.

We do have an “acting” planner along with a bunch of other bad actors playing various roles:) Kinda like a Quinn Martin production, same script rehashed over and over with a poor ending.

I do agree with your idea posted the other day gus to bring in someone for a short term to replace Bates. Someone with a size 11 shoe and is not afraid to use it, in hockey terms, bringing in Mike Keenan or John Tortarella. A few people might have to be put on waivers if the team is to move forward.

“There might just be some similarity in the repsonse to the question: “why do people buy houses or condo apartment when there are lots of them to rent?”

Yeah, except when people move, it is with their own money. This is using taxpayer funds. Slight difference.

I know, I know, it’s more exciting to have a new building rather than purchase an existing one. It’s only tax dollars, right?

Location, location, location.

They have a building. They moved much of their operations to the 18th avenue yard. Their operations ought to be consolidated. There are no buildings on the 18th avenue yard to buy or rent.

It’s pretty amusing to read the posts of the local couch potato cynics day after day, but really guys, you have to poke your little heads outside once in a while.

How many vacant office buildings do you know of in this town JB, that would service over a hundred employees and all the various pieces of transportation equipment they utilize? Have you ever seen the 4th avenue yard and what’s housed there?

I also love the ever popular neo-liberal fallacy about contracting out being cheaper than having people on staff to do this work. It just funnels the same amount or more money eventually into fewer hands. It’s a load of ____ in most cases. If you ever took the time to run the numbers through, you’d know that.

Oh and come on, leasing hospitals, police buildings and fire halls? That is the most asinine thing I’ve ever heard. Not a shred of common sense or logic in that. Just reactionary nonsense. It’s more cost-effective for governments to build these things themselves. What property owner would build a facility like a hospital knowing that their only viable customer would just agree not to renew the lease when it doesn’t suit them anymore? You’d have to have a 50 year lease agreement that would cost the taxpayers way more money in the long run than just building it themselves from current tax revenues. People always conveniently forget the profit motive in these “efficiency” schemes and the cost of capital real estate owners charge tenants.

Leasing vehicles is a stupid strategy for government. There is no upside in it for them, so by extension, there is no upside for us either. Governments don’t pay income tax, so they can’t use assets to tax shelter their income, because they don’t earn income. So, CCA and interest expenses are of no value to them. The most cost efficient way for a government to purchase a vehicle is with cash, because it’s a pure expense item. Leasing is one of the highest cost options of vehicle ownership around. This is not a good practice for government.

Having all the transportation and utilities people in one area and one building on the other hand is typically more cost efficient. This building will also be undoubtedly more energy and cost efficient than the old buildings they were operating out of down on fourth avenue; new lighting, electrical, heating, better insulation, better materials, etc…

I just looked at PGMap, lonesome sparrow, to see whether there are still plans for the Patricia Blvd. connection. Nothing right now.

But, there are two projections on there: 15 year road planning and 100 year road planning. I could not believe my eyes … 100 year planning??

I thought we had learned some time ago to plan by population thresholds – 75,000, 100,000, 125,000, 150,000, etc.

It is totally absurd to plan for land use and transportation connectivity based on time passage.

Just imagine a city planner in Vancouver on 1915 planning for travel corridor connectivity for 2015. Chances of hitting anywhere near the mark are zero to nil. Even population based planning will not address changes in vehicle propulsion, economics, centralization versus decentralization, congestion tolerance, lifestyles, world population redistribution (oops, did I say that?), etc. etc.

Interesting post, Karjai. I know my post about leasing things such as hospitals, police stations was a bit of two things, tongue in cheek and a dig at P3 projects.

The thing is, we are leasing hospitals, police stations, etc.

The new Division E headquarters in Surrey for the RCMP is a prime example. A one billion dollar or so agreement for 25 years to design, build, and maintain a building to house the provincial police force entered into by the federal government. At the end, the building will be turned over for $1 to the feds in “as new” condition since maintenance is a required part of the agreement.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-property/nouvelles-news/ediv-grc-rcmp-eng.html

So, I do not know whether your post was tongue in cheek as well, or whether you really did not know that we have P3 projects in this world. It is not a neo-liberal thing. It is a neo-economy thing no matter which party is in power and which country/state/province it is in power in.

Just look a what was done with Terasen in several cities in BC. The exact reverse.

I never looked at PGMap gus but last time I looked at the provisional financial plans there was at least a 100k a year allocated to buy up land along the Patricia Blvd. corridor so there must be a plan somewhere(maybe the last guy took it with him and will sell them back when the time comes)

I don’t recall if it was funded or unfunded but far too nice a day to sit inside and pour through those pdf’s :)

A P3 project as I understand it cannot get the lowest interest rate as the government therefore is a higher cost in the long run.

The City a number of years ago moved their yard from 18th an Ospika to make way for the soccer fields. They located on the East End of 4th Avenue.

At the present time they have their purchasing building there, and an office building plus lots of space for storage etc;

There is absolutely no reason for them to move. They were doing just fine where they were.

The plan to widen Queensway and go through lower Patricia Blvd, and overpass 1st Ave, was scrapped when Mayor Kinsley was told by the Feds that there was no money available for the project. However using the Port of Prince Rupert, and the CN Container Terminal, as a smoke screen they were able to get $3.5 Million for the Feds, and Province, for a total of $7 Million to upgrade River Road to the 200 year flood plain level.

The City purchased the Yellowhead Road and Bridge building and yards, and moved most of there operation to that location a number of years ago. At the time the BS story was that they would sell the property on the East End of 4th Avenue to offset the $5 Million dollar cost of the Yellowhead property. Now they are spending a further $3 Million for office space etc; on 18th and Ospika. So we are getting close to $10 Million in expenditures on these manouvers.

When will they sell the propery on 4th ??. I doubt if they ever will. However the fact of the matter is, that was their plan, and once again we have been screwed.

There are so many high cost screw ups by City Hall, that one loses track of them all. If you look at all of them over the years, the only conclusion you can come to is that this City has been, and probably still is run by less than stellar people.

Palopu: “There is absolutely no reason for them to move. They were doing just fine where they were.”

That was my take on it too. I look at the three major construction projects going on in the City right now… this Admin building, BC Hydro, and the RCMP building. Maybe tere’s others I have missed. I do see one common thread in all of these projects… hmm…

“They were doing just fine where they were”

Is that what “they” said?

“I do see one common thread in all of these projects”

It is well known in the contruction and design and planning industry that during times of recession the percetnage of public projects as a part of all construction increases and the reverse happens as things pick up. Some of it is because provincial and federal governments will shore up the economy by renewing infrastructure at those times while the other reason is because private industry cannot do the same since banks will not lend them enough money to do so.

As you know, corporations have been asked to quit “sitting on their money” and spending some of it on capital investments or returning dividends to stockholders so that they can invest in corporations who will work with their money.

So, here is a list of some projects over say roughly a 3 year span, irst public and then private. Also not exhaustive, but a bit larger. One must not forget about housing. It is still a substantial slice of the pie in this community. Also, do not foget about civil work.

Public:
•Duchess Park Senior Secondary
•College Trades building
•Gateway seniors care facility
•Cancer Clinic
•BC Housing – Elizabeth Fry
•Boundary Road
•District energy system
•RCMP
•Hydro
•Repaving

Private:
•Paper process updates Canfor pulp mills
•200 room Sandman
•Conversion of Chances to Medical Centre
•Walmart expansion
•Kordyban Cancer lodge
•Townhousing on Victoria
•Scotia Building exterior reclading
•Ramada renovations
•Keg
•7th Avenue condos
•Target building conversion
•Medical offices + residential – Vancouver+6th
•Medical offices – Kinsmen Place (5th avenue)
•Car dealership – Hwy 16 west
•Bottle depot – Hollandia
•Warehouse conversion – Hollandia
•Proposed hotel+condo
•Post Office purchase and renovation
•3 subdivisions – 3 on Tyner + creekside on Malaspina civil plus housing construction.
•Original Joe’s
•College Heights pub – expansion + reno
•Mr. Mike’s restaurant conversion
•Housing development at Tabor and 5th.
•CN locomotive shop expansion

I am sure I forgot some as well.

Now that Mr. PG is out of the way, I suspect we will not have to hold our breath too long before the Casino will announce its next expansion to create a conference centre ….

Bingo!, Gus
Pun intended.