Roundabout Undergoes Repairs
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 @ 4:00 AM
Crews work on South rim of roundabout at north end of Cameron Street Bridge – photo-250NEWS
Prince George, B.C. – The roundabout at the north end of the Cameron Street Bridge will be reduced to single lane alternating traffic for two weeks.
Crews are repairing the south third of the roundabout which, to the untrained eye, appeared to “sink”. Temporary repairs included patching an area with asphalt.
The repairs include putting in new drainage that will tie in to the existing storm water system “We think this should prevent water from getting into the sub surface” says City of Prince George Supervisor of Street Operations Mick Jones.
The paving stones, touted as being a plus because they could be lifted and put back in place, will be replaced says Jones, who says the paving stones “failed” although it is not clear why. The project will also see a new section of curb and a significant curb “lip” installed.
Jones says traffic has contributed to the issues on the lower south end of the roundabout as many drivers fail to follow the paved circle, and opt instead to cut across the inner circle of paving stones. He says the new curb lip should discourage that practice as drivers will “experience a significant bump” if their wheels hit the lip.
There have been some who have suggested the heavy truck traffic should bear part of the blame of the failure of this section of the roadway, that the circle was designed “too tight” for the big rigs. Jones says the trucking industry had an initial concern when the roundabout was being first installed, and the circle was expanded to accommodate those concerns. He says the failure of this section of the roundabout seems to be with drainage. “We did a penetrating radar examination of the ground and we were unable to detect anything that would be causing the failure of that section of the roundabout, so we believe adding a drain system that will tie into the existing system will resolve the issue.”
The cost of the repair is $100 thousand dollars, which was not part of the streets division budget for 2012. Jones says the funds to pay for the repairs will have to come from other planned maintenance projects.
Comments
The paving patch worked great, and they should have just left it alone until that failed.
It had nothing to do with drainage and everything to do with 60 ton b-trains twisting through the corners with the failure in the exact spots where the wheels twist through the turn.
To redo it with brick and a curb is a dumb idea. The chip trucks only have 4-inches of clearance and they want to put in a 4-inch curb? No if and or buts about it a b-train needs the inner circle to make the turns. And how is that going to work with the plow trucks in winter working the raised curb?
Northwood had the same problem on the East side of the back rail crossing where trucks are turning to go to PG Saw or the Northwood scale. Huge pot holes would develop where the tires twisted into the turn. It had nothing to do with drainage. The solution for Northwood was to finally remove the pavement and put in a concrete pad where the wear was happening and now the problem no longer exists.
For a fifth of the cost the city could have fixed it properly, but instead they will spend a $100,000 to see it being done all again in another year or two.
The bricks on the empty side of the traffic circle actually held up well. That should tell them something.
hmmm…certain someone’s could skip a chinese holiday and 1/3 of this project would be paid for!
“the funds to pay for the repairs will have to come from other planned maintenance projects.”
I agree that the maintenance of the roundabout is more important than the maintenance of the city twinning process.
No way to stop the B Trains or the people who by pass the circle by driving over the bricks! Maybe the cops could sit down there for a week and write tickets, see if that works?
Shouldn’t this all be under some sort of warranty? They just built the damn thing. Either the people who designed it or the people that built it should be footing the bill. There’s no way it should have fallen apart so quickly; perhaps someone made a mistake along the way?
The original purpose of the brick apron was to accomodate tractor trailer units over tracking the the lane. Most roundabouts’designs have these aprons. This one is as large as it is because they were looking to future four laning the bridge traffic and the brick apron could easily be lifted to make the extra lane. (This sounds like crap but I remeber the city saying that when the roundabout was in the design stage) If this “Lip” is to deter people from driving intentionally on the apron, I wonder how big it will be and how much damage it will do to the tires on the big rigs that acually need it. Eagleone is right too, paving stones are a poor choice when dealing with heavy industrial traffic making turns on the same spot repeatedly
Should proof read, spelling is bad today
Wasnt this roundabout put into place to save money from the costs of installing a traffic light.
I dont know what the difference was between the two, but $100,000 in repairs later it sure looks to me like a traffic light would have been sufficient.
It looked pretty or awhile. I do find the roundabout works fairly well over all, but since i work shift I miss the morning and afternoon congestion.
I hope he new curb works..but the road will have to be better cleared in winter .
Traffic circles aren’t a new science, they’ve been around for years. I’m sure there is a solution out there for PG’s specific issue, and the city road planners just need to implement it. $100,000 is so much! Why?
the roundabout is a great idea, but the design was second rate.
Originally a private company was contracted to do this oproject. So the city would have paid hansomly for it to be sure.
My question is – Is this same private company back to do the job “right” this time, at no further cost to us?
If not, then the city is paying for it again.
Leading to another question – why did the city contract the project out in the first place. After all we are paying for it twice.
Money better spent by our city if we were supporting the infastructure of our capable city workers.
“the bricks will be replaced” – did I read that right – they are putting bricks back in? No way – why not just pave it! Right from the beginning I thought putting in bricks was a dumb idea.
Tearing up part of the sidewalk along George Street to put in decorative bricks was also a dumb decision. There was nothing wrong with the concrete. Bricks never stay in place in the north, don’t need to be an engineer to figure that out. Hello? Common sense please.
Eagleone is correct. I drive out to the pulp mills a couple times a week. My truck driving over the paving stones was not the reason they failed, neither is the ‘drainage’ problem.
Perhaps a 40,000 or 50,000 kg B-train is the answer…. There was nothing wrong with the asphalt patch put on it. It may not have been the prettiest patch over the bricks but it worked.
If they put a 4 inch curb where the existing 2 inch curb is, the trucks are going to have problems navigating the circle and you will have some very upset truck drivers.
In regards to the roundabout itself. I think they are a great idea. We should be installing them all over the city and removing traffic lights. They are way more efficient at moving traffic and are safe. Nobody ever has to cross traffic in a roundabout. All you do is enter traffic and then leave.
Intersections like 5th and Tabor with low traffic volume would be perfect to start trying out more traffic circles. Other intersections…
Ospika and Tyner, North Nechako and Foothills, 15th/University Way and Foothills, Westwood and Ferry
The comments above made me thing about a trip I made a couple of years ago when I visited a family member who has lived in Milan Italy for the last 25 years. They use roundabouts extensively and effectively in that city for traffic management.
She told me that the city had recently tried using traffic lights in some areas instead, and had then had to retrofit those intersections back to roundabouts because drivers did not adjust to the traffic lights well.
I have to say I have never been so nervous as I was the week I was in Milan. Traffic rules seem absent for the most part. They do not notice or respect lane markings, speed rules, and traffic signals so you get drivers making a 3rd lane where none exists, there is double and triple parking at will, and traffic lights have no effect. But, everyone seemed to manage in the chaos – I would never have driven there though!
Roundabouts do work there, because they seem to allow the driver to keep moving, but in a controlled space.
Jones: excuses, excuses hes good at that.
The roundabouts I have seen are a lot bigger in diameter. They should of installed a traffic signal in the first place. The area was not big enough for a roundabout,
A lot of people stand around doing nothbing in the photo
Cheers
Couldn’t the city just pave the whole thing and then “paint” a roundabout on the tarmac with Martha Stewart colours to simulate brick and pavement? Would save a lot of money. Maybe enuff to send another city minion to China.
Personally, I would have googled “roundabouts” and “how to build them” before building it. Yeesh!
Been to Milan. First 200 feet out of the train station and a guy passed me on the left in the circle and hit another car.
The traffic circle in Dawson Creek is the right size for large truck traffic. It is 2 lanes wide. You stay in the inside lane until you approach your outlet. You then move over to the right and exit. If you are making a simple right hand turn to the next outlet you simply stay in the outside lane. This traffic circle is too small. The truck simply cut the inside out by running over the pavers. And Eagleone in right If you look at the river side of the circle, you can see the huge difference in the wear on the bricks. Loaded trucks scrub harder than empty ones. I’m wondering if making the inner curb higher in order to keep the B trains in the loop will only cause the pavement to break down earlier based on the full turn that the truck wil lmake as opposed to the cut across the top that they used to make?
I would not necessarily blame the private contractor for a faulty installation, after all, the city provided the design and inspection did they not?
The core problem here is the flagstones, they are a very poor choice of paving material for an area that will see a fair amount of heavy truck traffic.
The paved circle is not wide enough to accomodate a b train rig, without having to have at least one set of wheels ride up on the apron. When I go through with just a full size crew cab and 24′ trailer, there is not a lot of unused pavement, how can they expect a loaded b train to negotiate the circle while staying on the ‘paved circle’?
One answer covers all questions as to “how could this have happened?”
answer: Mismanagement by the city.
Almost an oxymoron, I think.
metalman.
A **Lip** might work in the summer, but will it work with two feet of ice and snow in the winter???
If you look at the design, (really faulty at best), there doesn’t need to be the tremendous height difference between the north side of it and the south. If it had been built level, it would be much safer and easier to negotiate. Also, what were the designers thinking? Did they not know or ascertain the turning radius of a B-Train or a 53′ trailer? Then, to add a very sloping inner area to it was just absurd. the whole thing should have been built nearly level and paved the whole width. That is probably what will have to be done eventually to make it work properly. I guess that’s what happens when you have book educated people working on paper with no practical experience or in the field observations.
I suppose those who designed it are quite happy with it. They should be, if they are thirdgraders. Its not second rate, it definately third rate.
Anybody there know anything about modern roundabouts?
The FHWA has a video about modern roundabouts that is mostly accurate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHzly_6lWM ).
BTW, water in a sub-base is quite legitimate as a source of pavement failure, particularly due to freeze-thaw cycles.
Anybody there know anything about modern roundabouts?
The FHWA has a video about modern roundabouts that is mostly accurate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHzly_6lWM ).
BTW, water in a sub-base is quite legitimate as a source of pavement failure, particularly due to freeze-thaw cycles.
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