Smoke Screen 101 By City Council
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 @ 3:45 AM
During the period leading up to the last civic election there were, numerous occasions, when the entire sitting City Council attended election meetings or gatherings at which they were able to make their position on a variety of issues, known to those in attendance.
Fast forward to this week when a public meeting will be held to address the issues and the findings of the Core Review in the city and suddenly the matter of "Quorum" and the possible suggestion that this would represent a council meeting comes into play.
Smoke screen or just plain rubbish are the two things that come to mind.
The smoke screen comes into play because at least some of the councillors and the Mayor are suggesting that if all of the council attends this meeting then it would become a quorum of the council and somehow that can be translated into them making a decision on the issues before the issues come to the Council Chamber.
Man that is a stretch, but to add insult to injury, at least some of the councillors and Mayor obviously believe what they are saying is somehow the way civic government is run.
The people who organized the meeting are “not” asking the mayor and council to make a decision on matters that come before the public meeting, but rather to be there to answer questions from the audience and listen to their concerns. Concerns like for example what’s in for us if we hand over a facility worth 15 million dollars, to a third party for a pittance in return? Why are we selling the Pine Valley Golf Course? And any other questions that seem reasonable. It is also an opportunity for Mayor and Cuncil to listen, to hear what the taxpayers have to say about the recommended changes.
Yes, there has been a great deal of public input on putting forth " suggested opportunities" to cut costs, or reduce expenses, however, the draft report had 193 ideas, only 32 are making it through to the public and one whole section was dealt with in a separate confidential report which the taxpayers are not privy to.
Now back to that quorum notion. When they city council meeting ends early and the group decides to have a drink and five of the council show up, do they ask one to leave because it is a quorum, or do they simply sit around and talk about all the new things they have set out for the holidays, or does common sense prevail and they talk about what they all have in common, the business of the city?
When there’s a Christmas get together, do members of Council come and go on a rotating basis so as not to create an official meeting? Or if one of the council says” gee Christmas is such a bother” does that mean, a vote should be taken to do away with Christmas in Prince George? And finally what about the go away party for Derek Bates, it was suggested that Derek will be missed, did that constitute a call for a vote on asking him to return to his position?
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s’ opinion.
Comments
Well if the Mayor and council, who correct me if I am wrong represent the citizens, don’t want to be there a quorum of citizen should show up and asked them to quit. I am sure if your boss asked you to show up at a meeting, answer questions and you said “no”, you may be looking for a new job!
Of course, this is nonsense. The notion that if a sufficient number of councilors and the mayor are gathered in a given location at the same time that they would be forced by law to render decisions on anything is ludicrous. That they shrug their responsibilty to be answerable to the electorate on a matter that they forced upon us (i.e. the core review)is reprehensible and suggestive of the contempt in which they hold us.
Why was the core review commissioned in the first place? Is PG so badly off compared to other similar cities? Not according to this report “http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1W71rb”, which was a real eye-opener for me.
No, I think Queen Green and her band of merry men are hostile to working men and women and would do whatever they can to create fear and loathing of organized labour, opening the door to privatizing for no other purpose than to eliminate well-paying union jobs. Ironic and tragic when you consider how this town was built on well-paying union jobs and all the folks who were supported by the cash that flowed from those making a decent wage.
What B.C. needs is legislation for communities whereby if enough of the citizenry are opposed to a sitting city council as a whole, they can be thrown out and a new one voted in.
Perhaps after the community conversation, the whole group could hold a bit of a demonstration around city hall, get national news coverage and show all other communities that we have had enough of this!
We DO have power, we just have to show it!
After Stolz performance speech at council in respect to this meeting I donât think he would want to attend any public forum. He could very well have a shoe tossed at him. At the very least a cream pie. What a pampas, disrespectful man after watching his speech. Mayor Green was entangled in his web of disrespect. How long till some of our council members get tossed out of politics? Same sort of non sense Haldi folks got at a public meeting a year ago. They just refuse to learn. Where is the provincial governing body of municipal politics? This crew is out of control ! Very concerning!
As a taxpayer, I’m not at all concerned about a Core Review. I’m tired of constant tax increases while my income remains level or is declining due to a poor economic climate. A review of public spending and public spending priorities does not seem out of the question.
It seems to me that the most vocal group of dissenters are those in the “labour’ movement. It seems to me that our Public Sector Unions have one thing and only one thing in mind and that is keeping union members workings so that the union can keep collecting union dues! After all, Unions have long ago stopped representing their members and instead have become a business in their own light.
Our municipal workers are one of the largest, if not the largest budgetary cost to the citizens of our city. It seems reasonably to me to look at the wages and benefits provided to these workers in order to determine if they are out of line with the wages and benefits of the average tax payer. Are we over-paying for some of the services that we have? I’m sure that we are! So, a review of all costs is appropriate.
As far as council refusing to participate in some little meeting that is being driven by the labour movement, I have to ask why they would attend, when we all know that the meeting will be nothing more than a bunch of municipal workers and their unions demanding that their jobs, wages and benefits be left untouched. I have to ask why these people think that they should be sheltered and protected from the economic reality that many of us in the private sector are forced to deal with every day!
The largest cost to our municipality is the cost of salaries and benefits of our bloated public service, from the top down and the bottom up! Seems like a core review would be appropriate!
Posted by: Hart Guy on November 13 2012 9:18 AM
Our municipal workers are one of the largest, if not the largest budgetary cost to the citizens of our city. It seems reasonably to me to look at the wages and benefits provided to these workers in order to determine if they are out of line with the wages and benefits of the average tax payer. Are we over-paying for some of the services that we have? I’m sure that we are! So, a review of all costs is appropriate.
I sapose maybe you have not seen the taxes that you enjoy are payed to this city by union employee work force. You need a 101 on the reason you in the private sector are recieving what you recieve is because of some unions in the past went to bat for the workers for better wages and pention. When has a private company ever offerd a raise? Only because they do not want a union and offer above union wage as to keep the union out. Food for thought.
Well, Ben Meisner is an extremely vocal dissenter on this issue, but the last thing I would suggest is that he is motivated by a desire to increase the income of trade unions. Far from it. Ben has made it very clear for decades that he tends towards the other end of the political spectrum. Still, that’s the kind of unreasonable “bolshevik” that gets flung around by those with an anti-this anti-that mindset.
The fact is that in a group of 100 people at a meeting there are likely at least twenty reasons for them to be there.
I’ve heard the rhetoric by Hart Guy many times before, especially the one about incomes matching taxpayers’ incomes. I have noted several times that during times of good economic expansion when incomes of taxpayers rise significantly, there is absolutely no suggestion from the same complainers that they support increasing the pay of public sector workers. Instead they plead poverty, or claim it would restrict growth, or lead to a recession. In fact, almost any self serving excuse to avoid paying a decent income.
Interestingly enough, we are constantly being told on this site how defective the public services are, but then, out of the other side of the mouth, we are told how overpaid and lazy employees are. Its just self serving, anti-public sector, anti-union bolshevik, the bovine kind.
Can’t we all just come to the conclusion that the comment on the quorum by Council, I believe as advised by the city legal beagle, was totally brainless.
I just use that as one more indicator of Council’s questionable abilities. We all make mistakes, but for a City Council, which should have some of the best thinkers in the community, they make far too many, and it is starting to show more and more. THIS Council, in particular, is just not showing that they have the capacity to turn the past neglect around.
A community this size should be able to build a PAC, it should be able to hold a national sporting event, it should be able to maintain its roads, it should be able to maintain and expand existing buildings instead of tearing down and re-building, it should be able to maintain roads in the winter, it should be able to have landscaping on arterials second to none …. and on and on and on.
We should all be able to set our minds to whatt we could have that other communities do have and how to go about getting there.
Instead, we have hired some incompetent people steered in the wrong direction by a subset of Council and handed a plate with “opportunties” to make change by tearing down rather than renovating and building.
Gus:
The very least Shari should do is send her assistant in her place to this meeting.
Don’t worry, it is much more tactical and effective input to have no one there officially, but have a few eyes and ears there to provide her with a filtered summary.
“Can’t we all just come to the conclusion that the comment on the quorum by Council, I believe as advised by the city legal beagle, was totally brainless”
Actually I’m not so sure about that gus. I’m about 95% of the way to believing that council is so completely void of intelligence and brain capacity, that they actually believe the quorum argument to be valid, LOL.
How things change after the election. I am keeping a tally so, when I vote next election, I can eliminate these people from council who ignore the democratic process. The mayor tops my list.
What is council smoking these days? That might be the source of the smokescreen..I mean how crazy is this council going to get?
Scary…very scary, kind of rhymes with you know who…
Honestjoe city and council do not know what a democratic process is. Look at the Haldi Fiasco – city’s own lawyer does not know what the OCP is about along with the planning department. It cost the tax payers thousand of dollars. Oh, and don’t forget when the NIMBY from Haldi Road area questioned the daycare bylaw. Why did city put four bylaws into one vote? It was not democratic when Frizzell had to remove himself because he has rental property and could not vote on the other three.
The problem with many of the management at the city is they think they know their job and are getting to lazy to do their job as they think no one will question them.
The core review should have been done by the city itself instead they contracted it out so there would be no accountability internally.
Any organization nowadays that is dysfunctional should be starting from the top and work down to rid of the excess baggage.
How often have you stood in front of someone and all they can say is “my hands are tied” The front line workers are only as good as the management.
It is a shame because there are a lot of good front line people at the city. In my experiences with the city it has always been with the ones that “have the authority”. The problem with City Hall is the mind set that they are the “authority”.
I do not work for the city.
Honestjoe about sharing your tally with the rest of us?
“Actually I’m not so sure about that gus. I’m about 95% of the way to believing that council is so completely void of intelligence and brain capacity, that they actually believe the quorum argument to be valid, LOL.”
Well, I must agree with you NMG, you do have a valid point there. ;-)
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