Haldi Road Residents Consider Pulling Out of P.G.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 @ 4:38 AM
Prince George, B.C.- Haldi Road residents have been called to a community meeting this evening to talk about their future and that future might not include being a part of the City of Prince George.
The Haldi Road Committee which has lead the charge to oppose the proposed therapeutic community centre at the former Haldi Road Elementary School, has resigned itself to the notion it will not win that battle. The City of Prince George is now proceeding with an amendment to the Official Community Plan and a new rezoning application to allow the therapeutic community project to move forward.
The area residents had taken the City to court, and won their challenge of the initial rezoning for this property but now, feeling the City doesn’t listen to the wishes of a neighbourhood, the Committee will examine the possibility of pulling the neighbourhood out of the City of Prince George.
“This isn’t about opposing the proposed therapeutic community anymore” says Committee spokesperson Ben Geisbrecht, “it’s about saying the City of Prince George has abandoned us and we would be better off as part of the Regional District.”
Gisbrecht says the average rural residential property in the Haldi region pays about $3500 a year in taxes to the City of Prince George. If they are successful in their bid to leave P.G., that would amount to a loss of more than a million dollars in property taxes for the City.
Giesbrecht says residents in the neighbourhood are tired of paying substantial taxes and getting nothing in return “We have no water or sewer service, our roads are in horrible shape, we do have garbage pick up and snow removal but we pay separate for that anyway.” He says moving to the Regional District would see their taxes cut in half and they would have to pay for garbage pick up and fire service, but the additional fees would still see residents have a considerable saving in their annual bill.
According to Giesbrecht, when the Haldi Road region became part of Prince George, it was on the promise the City would provide water and sewer services, that was more than 2 decades ago, and the services have not been provided.
Section 26 of the Local Government Act provides for a reduction in the size of a municipality. It says it can be done at the request of Council :
“26 (1) On the request of the council made in accordance with this section, the Lieutenant Governor in Council may, by letters patent, reduce the area of a municipality.(2) Before making a request for reduction, a council must(a) give public notice of its proposed request in at least 2 consecutive issues of a newspaper and once in the Gazette,(b) obtain the consent in writing of at least 60% of the electors of the area proposed to be excluded, and(c) receive the assent of the electors, unless this requirement is waived under subsection (4).
Giesbrecht says he has spoken to reps at the Provincial Government who have advised him that “if the City of Prince George doesn’t want to play fair on this matter, the Province will put on the referee’s shirt and step in.”
Giesbrecht says the Committee believes more than 80% of the neighbourhood supports the idea of pulling out of the City. The meeting this evening will further gauge that support and if it is as strong as believed, the Haldi Road Committee will instruct its lawyer to take the next steps towards making this happen.
Comments
I guess this is what should happen when Prince George council operates like a kangaroo court. Pay big and get nothing.
Someone has to stand up to a Council that does not know when it is time to listen to a neighbourhood.
Finally they have met their match! It is about time.
So, let us see how entrenched Council is.
Where is the proponent in all of this? Wants to help women solve their addiction problems and in the process is destroying a community.
How long will it take for Council and the proponent to come to their senses? Time for a sit down with all parties and an “open and honest dicussion” to solve an ever escalating situation.
Posted by: gus on December 19 2012 6:13 AM
Where is the proponent in all of this? Wants to help women solve their addiction problems and in the process is destroying a community.
One of the proponents is not even a residence of Prince George. He resides in Vanderhoof. And the other one is at Woodweaton. We have never heard from ether one of these people ever.
Well played HRC, well played.
Now to see if council will fiddle while the city burns.
Well, got to give this Giesbricht fella credit for staying ahead of the city.
Thank you Haldi Road Residents for fighting our battle.
Good riddance NIMBYs
Lets see some for sale signs on your houses too!!!
Only 20 years since water and sewer was promised, wow. Another example of the city talking out of its arse and not listening to its people.
Just out of personal curiosity I am wondering what the cost to the Haldi residents would be to remove themselves from PG. What costs would be put on them that they dont have now. I hope all of these are addressed so they residents have all the info before they decide what to do.
As for the city council… how about listening to the voters for once.
I wish you the best in this Haldi road, its about time someone stood up to the City of PG. They deserve to lose a million dollars in taxes.
People talk about bullying in schools, maybe we need to look at our leaders first.
Good for them!
I don’t think they’re NIMBYs. I think they are tax payers, and voters, and that they are being ignored.
If they stood strong, and took the City to court, and won, and the City continues to ignore their wishes, why should they continue to pay taxes?
If they were promised water and sewer, and never got it, why should they continue to pay for those services?
I fully support what they are doing, and I hope they win.
Stay strong, Haldi! I support you.
Jayda’s right. The way the City has been handling this situation could easily be construed as **bullying**. They are using thier postions of power to force residents to do what they wish. This of course is nothing new.
Its not a question of NIMBY. Its a question of Government (Both Provincial and Municipal) doing whatever the hell they please whenever they please without any consideration to those who are effected.
We have more space in the Prince George area, than the state of Texas (a little bit of exaggeration) and the only place we can locate a treatment centre, is in Haldi Road, where it is not wanted.
Give me a break.
We have no water or sewer service, our roads are in horrible shape, we do have garbage pick up and snow removal but we pay separate for that anyway.â He says moving to the Regional District would see their taxes cut in half and they would have to pay for garbage pick up and fire service, but the additional fees would still see residents have a considerable saving in their annual bill.
Maybe the Nechako Bench area should join them!
I think Blackburn won’t be too far behind either – I don’t believe they have city water or sewer and have also been promised it for years.
I think it is about time that our Council realizes that it has a duty to listen to the people in the community. They seem to make decisions without investigating the consequences of these decisions. As an example they allowed Stillwater s/div to be approved and remove all the trees that buffered lower College Heights from the noise in the old BCR yard.
When you complain about the noise, the response is that it is industrial noise and they have no authority to do anything.
Give your head a shake council, everyone told you that when the you approved the subdivision!
Haldi road is just plain mean spirited, we’ll do an end run and come at it from another direction and if that doesn’t work they’ll try and find another way around it.
They also seem to be determined to get rid of the Pine Valley golf course!
The next municipal election can’t come soon enough!
The issue here is one of process. Personally attacking the proponents or owners of the building or any individuals involved, on either side, clearly shows only emotional responses by some posters. Those posters should take Mr Giesbrechts lead and deal with the issues through process, no matter how many times it takes,not the court of opinion250
Ya, quit voicing your opinions on opinion250, there are more appropriate places to do that……don’t let emotion into anything you think, it may cloud the issue, just be the good little robot and stand in line.
But in all seriousness, this is no longer an issue about being a NIMBY (another overused acronym), it is an issue about the city simply ignoring taxpayers wishes as in the dike fiasco, rcmp building fiasco, and all the other big budget items they have wasted money on in the past few years.
“Maybe the Nechako Bench area should join them!”
Many areas actually …. including South Fort George …….
“Those posters should take Mr Giesbrechts lead and deal with the issues through process”
Process my ass …. they followed process because there is no other way in this province to deal with a beligerant Council other than the courts ….. quality processes have appeal processes included …. we need a municipal board …. in this province the appeal is to the minister responsible and/or the courts …..
looks like they have started to take that step as well ……
The City is simply going to say that they wish to go through the process once more, hear from the people once more … and decide once more …..
They could have avoided all those steps by abiding by the wishes of the majority in the community …… they are the only ones concerned … the rest of the city does not care ….. never have … maybe they will this time …..
I say build it beside Frank buddies house!
Two thumbs up Haldi Road!!!
Wait till this hits the news in the lower mainland and the rest of Canada ….. our mommies and daddies sure know how to sell the lifestyle in our city ……..
welcome to our dictatorship ……
The money for the District Energy System, Boundary Road, PG Hotel should have went towards building water/sewer to these outyling areas.
Winter Games, RCMP, Kin 1, 18th Avenue City Admin Building, trips to China, payraises – the list goes on and on.
You can’t win, did you see the editorial in the Citizen today its one sided and very BIAS and thats how the game is played. By providing all these great services we are importing more of the unwanted here,this is not only about Haldi Road it affects the whole City.Why not find a nice spot in Quesnel, why do we have to have it all??
“maybe the nechako bench should join them”
time to consider it!
So I guess when the Haldi Rd. bunch takes a hike, where do you suppose the city is gonna get that million bucks they are losing? Me and thee? You betcha! Buncha ninnies at city hall. But don’t forget to vote them in again.
Not defending the city but I hope you all realize that the amenities in the city all cost money. Swimming pools,soccer fields,libraries,arenas and CN Cenre. If you leave the city be prepared to pay extra to use these facilities. I can’t afford any more taxes to pay for you to use them/. Maybe a citizen card for a reduced rate.
Still waiting for that Indoor pool that was promised for the Hart when we were amalgamated back in the early 70’s.
oh wait didnt we get a tennis court?
Yea that was a much better idea—not
Way to go Haldi Road residents!! Somebodies got to do it!
gus: “Wait till this hits the news in the lower mainland and the rest of Canada ….. our mommies and daddies sure know how to sell the lifestyle in our city …….. “
Careful what you wish for. Depending on how the typically left-leaning media spins it, they might make it look like the hard-hearted residents of Haldi Rd. and PG (read: NIMBY) don’t want a harmless treatment centre in their community. Either way, it looks bad for PG.
boomer: “Not defending the city but I hope you all realize that the amenities in the city all cost money. Swimming pools,soccer fields,libraries,arenas and CN Cenre. If you leave the city be prepared to pay extra to use these facilities. I can’t afford any more taxes to pay for you to use them/. Maybe a citizen card for a reduced rate.”
Exactly.
YES YES YES I agree good job we get no city services nothing but bills I am IN 100%
Glad you can remove the blame for your problems away from those in recovery, to where it is more deserved – City Hall, which has clearly failed miserably in providing services to this neighbourhood.
Clearly truck country! What elses is there to say.
Could Haldi be the pebble that leads to an avalanche of neighbourhoods in outlying areas joining the regional district? New city limits at the bridges and bottom of Peden Hill(got my vote!!)
For those living in the bowl take heart, your taxes will be going up but the city can save some money on the sign at 16 & 97—change from 75,000 to 57,000 population—no need to buy new numbers:)
I wonder if this will get anyone’s attention at city hall or will they continue to live in their own little world where they know best and plant jack boots on the throat of any residents who dare to question their authority.
BTW Those of us out west were promised a pool too:(
Lets start the process either way the city has proven over and over they will do what they want and no home owner will control what the city doesâ¦So I am in with 3 lots in Haldi all with no services and would do much better out side the city limitsâ¦Lets GO and LETS RUMBLE we will Beverly south GOOD BY PRINCE GEORGE⦠Brian you can come with us as you listen and understand
Way to go Haldi Road…wonder how many other outlying areas would benefit from joining the Regional District. Would be interesting to hear from them too. Maybe if you start the process you can give them some pointers on the process ..your win against City Hall is a good beginning. Don’t take this lying down — there are probably many that will support you. For example, others in Prince George who fought city hall and were struck down. The referendum was one way to show City Hall we want a voice…maybe this can garner the same support as the referendum. Maybe City Hall isn’t as untouchable as they think.
Some great posts above….good thinking people of Prince George who think we can do better!! Wouldn’t it be interesting to check out the advantages of withdrawing from the city and joining the Regional District…currently, our voices are not heard at City Hall anyway. We just have to pay our taxes and take what meagre crumbs we get while Council continues their spending spree (including the core review expense….that could have gone a long way to something usefull). We are using very few city services, have a reginal firehall nearby, have our own water and sewage system. For what we save, we could probably buy our own snow clearing machine and pay an operator or contract with a local operator. AND best of all, would not have City Hall dictate to us against our will! Sounds pretty good to me.
Also just read the Citizen editorial–total bias, would be surprised to see them print any letters to the editor submitted by Haldi Community opposed to Treatment Centre. Easy to see who is influencing who! By the way, since Marshall Smith is mentioned in the editorial does anyone know where he is these days? Anyone know how long the process of withdrawing from the City would take…the way things are shaping up with Green and crew (with the exception of Skakun) sounds like it could be a good idea to me.
“I think Blackburn won’t be too far behind either – I don’t believe they have city water or sewer and have also been promised it for years.”
Add in North Kelly area too – oh wait, I knew all this when I moved out here. My bad ;)
What are Haldi Road residents not getting that everyone else is? Water and sewer don’t count. We pay extra for that. On average Haldi homes are larger on larger lots.
boomer, have you been out to Haldi. People out there take pride in their homes so why shouldnt they build what they want. The neighbours are great people. My parents have owned land out there for years, and everytime we go to get a Christmas tree or to just check on the property we are greeted with kind faces and waves. They deserve the same. When my dad bought his land, he too was told that sewer and water were going to be hooked up in the next couple of years. 15 years later my dad has still not built and is waiting, waiting, waiting. I live just in city limits off of Pilot mountain road and wonder if this too is an option for us. Our roads are horrible,we pay a ridiculously large amount of tax and do not receive the service we pay for.
Assessed home values reflect size of the home and lot,also whether you have water or sewer. About the only we have on Ridgeview that you don’t have is a street light. Also water and sewer which raises home values and taxes.
Some of you folks are a bunch of silly wankers…honestly…have some compassion for your fellow man, or woman, in this case…seriously, this ain’t a NIMBY situation? yeah right…
We also take pride in our homes and have awesome nieghbours.
Cassie: “People out there take pride in their homes so why shouldnt they build what they want. The neighbours are great people.”
What’s the insinuation here? That other people in other neighborhoods aren’t great people or don’t take pride in their homes?
I support the Haldi people in principle, but this separation idea is out to lunch. If they really don’t want to be a part of the City, they should move outside of the current municipal boundary.
That is neighbours for the grammar police.
Boomer – “On average Haldi homes are larger on larger lots.”
Are you kidding me? check around at other areas of the city. The only thing the neighbourhood of Haldi Road has is larger lots. IT IS A RURAL area. Lower College Heights and Westgate puts the sizes of most houses in Haldi to shame….Blackburn even puts them to shame….
Boomer – then let it be those that use then need to pay. I for one am tired of paying for other people’s mistakes. Right from the municipal level to the federal level. From now on it starts locally for me…
Read Godbout’s editorial online(cancelled the rag during Nicholson’s reign) and it it is pretty obvious that he is pandering to one of the citizen’s major advertisers. I’m sure Wood’s 3 car dealership’s advertising cover Neil’s salary a few times over.
This also answer’s the question that gus posed about where the proponents have been hiding….don’t want to get too much face time on this or will likely see a lot less Ford, Honda and GM vehicles in the Haldi driveways(or they will have out of town dealer stickers on them)
it would be interesting to actually compare the taxes and services you get if you are in or out of the city. In the regional district there is no garbage and no paid fire fighters so likely there would be higher home insurance costs. Snow removal will be when the province gets around to it. There is also no transit.
on the plus side you get to enjoy all the city facilities, from the pool to arenas to the library, without having to pay for the cost of building them. You also can drive back and forth on city roads without having to pay for them either.
Now that you mention it, living in the regional district and benefiting from the services paid by others does sound pretty inviting. It’s one way to get away from our mayor and her band of merry men.
But wait, doesn’t the mayor and four councilors also sit on the regional district board?
silverback
And I suppose the residents of Hollandia were against the new bottle depot, not because it flew in the face of the OCP and did not fit into the neighbourhood, but because they did not care about the poor un-recycled bottles and cans.
If this does get shoved down their throats, I do not think the clients of this facility will get a very warm reception if they walk around the area,not exactly an atmosphere that is conducive to healing.
We will have to have a little more imagination than West Kelowna or West Vancouver when naming the west end of Prince George after the divorce.
Suggestions?
For those interested in withdrawing from the city and joining the Regional District, you would still have access to hospital and police services paid through your taxes. For fire protection, you would apply to your local Regional Fire Dept. and this is added to your taxes when you are included in that particular area….if you are not covered, you don’t pay. The amount of tax is based on the $assessment of your property.
The taxpayer has a voice as to what service or facility goes into their area and are taxed accordingly. Do you want a performing Arts Centre, new skating rink, core review to cut your expenses, dump your sewage on Salmon Valley Residents, continue supporting IPG, build a Dike? You decide and are taxed acccordingly. Sounds like a democratic process to me…..unlike City of Pr. George.
Maybe Ben Giesbrecht is onto something…with a little legal footwork, we can cut our taxes, have control over our services and neighborhoods and live happily ever after. Maybe we should be calling him Santa Ben. In any case, I think he has opened the minds of many Prince George residents to an attractive alternative in what has been up until now a seemingly hopeless situation. Maybe it is no longer David against Goliath. Maybe it will be a Christmas to remember when we can look back and say…..you know…there was a better way, we didn’t have to put up with a dictatorship and I’m sure glad we did it.
No Guesswhat I’m not kidding . Your taxes are based on the value of your home. Plain and Simple. If the Treatment Centre goes through maybe you’ll get lucky and the property taxes will go down as the drug addicted zombies roam freely around the neighbourhood raping and pillaging.
No Guesswhat I’m not kidding . Your taxes are based on the value of your home. Plain and Simple. If the Treatment Centre goes through maybe you’ll get lucky and the property taxes will go down as the drug addicted zombies roam freely around the neighbourhood raping and pillaging.
I have been advised by my Insurance company regarding change in fire insurance premiums that the cost of fire insurance will not change as long as we are still within 13 K’s of a fire responding fire department (City or volunteer makes no difference).
City Hall does need a shake up and a serious one at that. Maybe this will do it! Maybe eventually it will be known as the Village of Prince George!
Will a big cut in its populations size mean a big cut in what it pays these dictators? I’d be all in favour of that too!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the size of council dictated by population numbers? If certain areas decide to go “Parti Quebecois” and separate, there would be fewer people required to sit around the civic table.
hmmmm…
Hopefully nobody from out of town reads this site, or this doesn’t get picked up by the National media. We’ll be the laughing stock of the country (again).
Some interesting comments. Here are a few more.
The outlying areas around Prince George rejected amalgamation twice. It was only when the residents of Prince George were allowed to vote that the amalgamation went through. So we could say that people in these areas were being ill served from the outset. It is the Provincial Government that supported the idea of amalgamation because it allowed them to download costs to the City. The City in turn, got to increase their tax base, so they were in favour of the idea.
Fact of the matter is the amalgamation was (like so many other PG Projects) a failure. People in outlying areas are still being treated like poor second cousins, and still do not have the water, and sewer that they paid for. Other services are less than stellar.
So. A case certainly could be made for these people to revert back to the Regional District in order to protect their rights as citizens and taxpayers.
Dont cloud the issue with the establishment of the treatment centre in Haldi Road. We all know (if we want to be honest with ourselves) that this centre could be established in another area, where it would not be a problem for anyone. In fact, if we wanted to, we could renovate the old Police Station and make it the Recovery Centre.
I think the residents of Haldi Road, should take this issue to the wall, and bring as much attention as possible to the City, to expose their lack of concern, for citizens and taxpayers .
It is bothering me ,about this amendment to the O.C.P. is it to include all of P.G. or just Haldi Rd?? maybe someone from City Hall could put my mind at rest.
“If the Treatment Centre goes through maybe you’ll get lucky and the property taxes will go down as the drug addicted zombies roam freely around the neighbourhood raping and pillaging.”
That is without a doubt the most offensive thing I have ever read on here, whether you like this plan or not. Get a life Boomer.
Posted by: bitter on December 19 2012 1:32 PM
It is bothering me ,about this amendment to the O.C.P. is it to include all of P.G. or just Haldi Rd?? maybe someone from City Hall could put my mind at rest.
Dr Sutter would have you think that it is only for the Haldi Centre. The fact is there is no such thin when it comes to the OCP. Zoning is what Dr Sutter is refering to. The OCP change will effect everyone in the City limits of Prince George. ITS SCARY.
007 is correct.
The first time this was before council, the Haldi Road communities lawyer blatantly warned council the OCP could be challenged as it did not support this type of facility in that area. City staff commented to council that the OCP was merely only a guideline for city staff to follow and this was perfectly legal. Stolz commented the city (Forgive me I have forgotten the name of the city staff who taught this OCP coarse at the university) taught at the university to students the make up of an OCP and he had no reason to have any doubt. The OCP was last changed in 2011 to its current status. Now interesting enough the OCP in the guideline and should not be changed again for 5-10 years in most cities except in Prince George of coarse.
I(f you can’t get sarcasm Interceptor maybe it’s you that needs to get a life. I wouldn’t bat an eye if the Treatment Centre was placed in the school near my house.
I respect everyone’s opinion but boomer would your entire neighbourhood feel the same way? If you were the only one supporting it then you would say it must go in because itâs for the woman suffering from addiction so it must go in. So what if City Staff and council break all the rules to do it. Rules only apply to a select few. You just got to laugh once in awhile
lonesome sparrow,
Maybe it’s time some folks developed an imformed, thick skin, shall we say…we already know some skulls are…there are worse things that a society has had to adapt to, even in PG…adapting and compassion are traits that some folks could learn, believe it or not…even in PG…
sorry boomer – was reading fast on a break from work. My mistake :) – I couldnt believe someone would say something like that lol
Just watched our mayor speak on CKPG facebook haldi take two (video) Haldi road recovery centre tries again. I think I only saw her blink a few times.
57chevy. In my original post on this topic I stated that I was not defending the city.
This process was indeed an eye opener for me, how special interest groups could influence council members. Our illustrious mayor says now that she is not working closely with Marshall Smith who moved on to BID Group (the owner being involved in Haldi Road School AND Baldy Hughes) she can wholeheartedly participate in the debate and in my opinion make this happen for them.
As a card carrying Haldi-ite I will vote to pull out even if it costs me more. As for civic facilities I can toss a stone from my property across to the regional district and they pay the same thing I do to go to a hockey game or drag the kids to the pool
To Bitter and all Citizens of Prince George:
The proposed OCP amendment to allow the Treatment Centre into the Haldi (Rural) area applies not only to the Haldi area but will apply to all of Prince George.
The City Planners Recommendation for the OCP Amendment reads as follows:
Amend Policy 7.5.9 to read: “Permit affordable housing and/or special needs housing, at densities Council considers appropriate, in all the residential areas, including rural areas.”
For confirmation of this, you can call City Hall, ask for Planning and ask them to read their proposed amendment to Policy 7.5.9 to you.
The City would like to slide this through without public opposition but if you are concerned, get involved, write City Council and be at the 3rd reading which is expected to be around Feb. 4th. Or there may be a public meeting in the new year for the OCP amendment you can take part in. The meetings have to be advertised so watch the newspapers. The OCP change APPLIES TO EVERY PROPERTY IN PRINCE GEORGE.
To put things into perspective we used to own in the bowl and watched as the city destroyed our neighbourhood first with the officers moving the hookers out of the downtown and then the street people (no offense to these groups, but to clean up one part of a town you wreck another?). Then they had the nerve to pat themselves on the back for ‘cleaning up the downtown’ and no stated increased crime where these people were put (prior to this zero break ins in 8 years and the next 5 we had 6 total B&Es to our house and vehicles)
We sold at a loss just to get out of that situation we were put in and have enjoyed a decade of calm; not worrying if I had a side window on my truck in the morning, or if my dog would be in the yard when I got home (yes they steal those too). Our council and city have the opinion they can do whatever they feel like wherever they feel like so count me as part of the rats getting off a sinking ship
How can people say NIMBY. You move into a neighborhood, there’s a school, which is always a positive. Then, someone closes the school and your kids have to start taking a bus. And then, someone says we’re going to have a group of recovering drug addicts living in the school that use to have children. Had you known this was going to happen, would you have bought your house – of course not. Will it affect property values, absolutely. Try and sell a house with a school full of children next door vs a school full of recovering drug addicts. And people say it will be quiet – for every recovering drug addict there’s a PO’d boyfriend out there who knows exactly where she is, and sooner or later one of them is going to show up screaming his head off in your neighborhood. And where will the RCMP be? – at least fifteen minutes away. Meanwhile, you’ve been woken up in the middle of the night while the boyfriend is ranting and raving outside. I think anyone who says NIMBY – you should show up at the meeting and petition city hall to put the treatment centre in their backyard.
“How can people say NIMBY. You move into a neighborhood, there’s a school, which is always a positive. Then, someone closes the school and your kids have to start taking a bus. And then, someone says we’re going to have a group of recovering drug addicts living in the school that use to have children. Had you known this was going to happen, would you have bought your house – of course not.”
Actually, this is pretty much the textbook definition of NIMBY’ism. Something coming into your neighborhood that you didn’t want or expect. But carry on.
it appears as though the city has backed Haldi residents into a corner and they aren’t done fighting. City council clearly has been forgetting about the million plus dollars the Haldi area gives to the coffers each year. A friend who lives in the regionl district has it made. They pay 1/3 of the property tax that we do for the same sized property. Their road is paved and cleared way sooner than our dusty dirt road ever is. The only thing i can see from leaving the city is positives…lower taxes, better road clearing and maybe we will even get it paved. I think Haldi has found the silver llining inside the grey cloud..or should i say Green cloud.
A little disappointed again with the mayor when she spoke to amending the OCP, as she did not fully explain (to all that will listen) what those changes are, should the OCP be permitted to be amended. Open and transparent…..ya right! Speak Shari… Please help all your residents understand. It should not be the job of the citizens of Prince George to explain these possible Big Changes we might see in all nieghbourhoods.
disappointed again at Shari’s first attempt at speaking to ** News video on CKPG **
Posted by: slinky on December 19 2012 2:45 PM
This process was indeed an eye opener for me, how special interest groups could influence council members. Our illustrious mayor says now that she is not working closely with Marshall Smith who moved on to BID Group (the owner being involved in Haldi Road School AND Baldy Hughes) she can wholeheartedly participate in the debate and in my opinion make this happen for them.
. December 19, 2012
Neil Godbout, Managing Editor
Marshall Smith is a talented political operative who orchestrated Shari Green’s election to the mayor’s chair. Green’s campaign outraised, outspent and outhustled incumbent mayor Dan Rogers, in part because of Smith’s efforts. Smith has also built a career working with and lifting up disadvantaged adults. When he saw an opportunity at Haldi Road, he approached powerful and wealthy players in the community and asked them to support his plan.
I could not help but remember Shari Green fighting and kicking until an interview with Meisner that she had no conflict of interest with Marshall Smith. Now a lawyer has said she is good to go at the 1st and second reading of this OCP and rezoning at the December 17th council meeting. My question is this? Marshall Smith is employed by the owner of the Haldi property Brian Fehr (Bid Group of Companies) I am still not feeling comfortable with this arrangement. Sorry. It kind of stinks IMO
As a tax paying member of the Regional District, I’d like a vote as to whether we should accept these whiners or not.
You are quite right geepee ….. in my opinion the planning report is not worth the paper it is written on. It goes totally against the notion of what an OCP should be about and how it should be changed if need be. Any person who is knowledgeable about such processes can get a court or an administrative hearing to defeat the change by dealing with intent and best practices.
Even the simple notion that a treatment centre is housing is debatable. In my view, it is no different than the extended care unit at the hospital, for instance. That is not housing, neither by zoning nor by building code. That is a care giving institutional use. The building code, for instance, does not consider it housing. Neither the building code nor zoning regulations consider a jail to be housing.
The primary purpose is not housing, but treatment, just as the primary purpose of a residential school is not housing, but teaching.
If the place is forced down their throats and goes ahead, I hope all those opposed will invest in very loud booming car stereos and drive by really slowly at all hours of the day and night like all the retards do in other residential neighbourhoods in this village.
“Green’s campaign outraised, outspent and outhustled incumbent mayor Dan Rogers”
Wow, that says a lot. Anybody would have beat Rogers!
You’re right 007, perception is everything. I don’t care what Greens lawyer says.
NIMBY …..
How often do people such as RUEZ, Dragonmaster and JB post on here that people should not complain about this or that, such as industry, road noise, railway noise, gravel pit mining noise, asphalt plant smells, etc. since those land uses were there when residential land uses got a bit too close. The rationale then is that residents ought to have known that those uses were there, yet they moved in anyway.
Well, the logic works in reverse as well. In this case the people and the school were there first. The commercial use of the property, and that is what it actually is, a commercial use by people who are making money by providing therapy, is the use which is trying to encroach on an existing residential community and they are pretending it is an apartment building or a rooming house. It isnât. It is a live-in therapy clinic.
One cannot have it both ways.
BTW, it is because of the NIMBY human factor that zoning and OCPs exist in thee first place.
If it were not for the fact that people are territorial, we would not need such plans, regulations, and laws.
To Slinky
I agree with you 100% Slinky…
Even if the mayor says she is no longer in conflict, she was instrumental in speeding the 1st rezoning along. Does it really matter that she is not working closely with Marshall Smith now…the fact remains that the owners who she helped in the first place are still the same. They are the ones who stood and still stand to gain from this. Not much has changed, except that the Mayor says she is no longer in conflict.
I agree with you, Slinky….doesn’t seem right, no matter how she tries to twist it.
Not only does it have to be legally right but it has to be seen to be right and this doesn’t look right.
I applaud the Haldi Road citizens for standing up for their community. Too often now we are a series of neighbours in isolation. This has been an extreme way to build community spirit, but the city hall representatives in displaying a complete lack of concern for the Haldi Road citizens have awoken a sleeping giant. I think the fight is on.
Were I a member of the Haldi Road community I would be lobbying my neighbors door to door to opt out of the city. That’s a heck of a long time to wait for water and sewer, I wouldn’t waste any time.
What a lousy thing for the city to do.
Gus: “Well, the logic works in reverse as well. In this case the people and the school were there first. The commercial use of the property, and that is what it actually is, a commercial use by people who are making money by providing therapy, is the use which is trying to encroach on an existing residential community and they are pretending it is an apartment building or a rooming house. It isnât. It is a live-in therapy clinic.
One cannot have it both ways.”
Gus, you misunderstand me. I have always said that this is the right project in the wrong place. I actually support the residents… most of them, anyway. I don’t support this separation idea, and think that it leads us down the wrong path, no matter what happens with the treatment centre.
What happens in the future when someone proposes something in someone else’s neighborhood? Will there be cries of separation then? It’s to the point of ridiculousness… on both sides.
That is what the Haldi residence have done for 1.5 years now. If itâs a point of ridiculous then you should be lobbing city council. This is not new news JohnnyBelt . I bet you have not sent in one letter to council to support Haldi or City. The OCP has been in the news for 2-3 weeks or more.
I am so proud of the People in Haldi. Hey every one, How about NITBY. The T repaces the M. T for Their. Let’s support these people. You “go good people”
Maybe I have been looking at this OCP amendment from the wrong angle. A friend of a friend says he can get me 30 Chinese migrant workers for my new therapeutic clinic. I’m looking at a large house on Clare Cres that I can cram 30 beds in. This will not be like a back alley entrance rub&tug, this will be a classy therapeutic massage clinic and a boost to the local economy. How could council say no to my zoning application and business license when this therapeutic massage clinic will be so good for the Heritage area ? Maybe a little more traffic, but no big deal.
To: Middle finger
Good luck with your classey therapeutic massage clinic….how can the city refuse…after all it will be good for your community, and we realy, really need it. But have you checked with your neighbors….oh I forgot….they don’t matter, as long as the City thinks its ok.
This is quite an amusing story. Be careful what you wish for Haldi Road Community, you just might get it.
That’s a bit of a stretch, you’re not going to get what you want here no matter how loudly you stomp your little feet. Even if Council decided to exclude you from City boundaries, it wouldn’t change in any material way your situation, except you’d start getting even less services than you enjoy now and the recovery centre would still be setup in your neighbourhood. Boy, that’ll sure fix City Hall won’t it! LOL too funny.
I think this whole thing is way over blown, and Council is actually taking the right course for once. There are some serious sunk costs involved here. I think the concerns about this facility in your neighbourhood are trite and unwarranted. It’s just downright uncharitable really and I think that’s sad. I think it’s time to suck it up and start behaving like grownups.
My suspicion is that you won’t hardly notice a difference once it’s in place. Time to grow up people.
Its on issues like this that our new Councillors, and some of the old need to take a stand and support the people, as opposed to blindly following the lead of the Mayor. Are these new Councillors able to stand on thier own two feet.?? I guess we will find out.
There are many options, as to where this centre could be built, and it behooves the Mayor and Council to look at all of them, not just the one that is proposed by Smith, and his friends.
Everyone knows (or should know) that the Provincial Government is behind the Haldi Road, facility, and will (in due course) provide the funding so that this centre can in fact function. It cannot function on its own merits. 30 clients on welfare, or from the penal system, or paying through their medical would generate approx 30,000.00 per month, or $360,000.00
per year. Considering all the costs such as heat, lights, staff, janitorial services, hauling water, etc; etc etc; that is hardly enough money to operate this facility. There may be some money donated by different groups, however at the end of the day, the majority of the money will come from the Provincial Government.
Soooooooo. If the Provincial Government is the major funder of the development, then they can bloody well come out of hiding, and admit it, and then take whatever steps are required to have this facility located in an area that is acceptable to all the citizens of Prince George.
We have had enough of these **behind closed doors** secret deals, that basically screw everyone except those who are connected.
Karjai. The citizen punt you off their blog? You were off topic on all your post On the citizen as well. You simply do not get it
From reading all this from the outside, I find it quite amusing how all the people who think the Haldi residents are over-reacting, don’t appear to actually live in that residential area.
Karjai -” Even if Council decided to exclude you from City boundaries”
As usual you do not do your homework. This is common for you and some of your unfounded statements – you do not know what the facts are.
So here it is a news flash – City Council would not have a say if these residents raise the proper %. Check your facts before you beep beep beep beep :) Whoops thought I was the roadrunner for a minute :)
Oh, and lest we forget – you are from the area? you won’t either :)
To the best of my knowledge,Shirley Bonds office send correspondence to the Haldi Lake committee saying that the proposed centre had nothing to do with the Provincial Government. That was on the first go round.
All through the first campaign Marshall Smith spoke about being self sufficient,however at the end of his presentation he did make reference to perhaps obtaining funds from from all levels of Government.
in addition to the million dollar purchase by the provincial government, Baldy Hughes receives a annual operating funding of just over $277,00 through B.C. Housing. In addiction,the society recieves operating funds of $100,000 through provincial gaming grants and up to $676,00 in support recovery funding from the Ministry of social Development.
“In 2010-11, the Province will invest over $562,000 million to provide affordable housing and fight homelessness-more tha four times as much as in 2001”
So why the push for the Northen supportive Recovery Centre?
“Cause there’s GOLD in them there ILLS”
also the proponents keep talking about striving to be like San Patrigano ( a Recovery Centre in Europe) They are for the most point self sufficient but one of their more successful ventures is producing wine and marketing it. That is harm reduction not abstinence
Mirroring…. good one ! I really needed a good laugh today Thank-you
I was just watching a short filler about neighbourhoods.
There was a very interesting reminder which I think people need to lean or remember, and most certainly for Councillors to learn and apply since they obviously do not believe in the notion expressed in the following statement:
âThe neighbourhood is not the purview of city planning but the purview of the people living thereâ.
To believe otherwise, is antisocial since family and neighbourhood are the most basic building blocks of a successful and thriving community.
This is definitely a case where we have to instruct Council and sadly even the City planning staff who wrote a report that goes against everything they should have been taught at University.
“From reading all this from the outside, I find it quite amusing how all the people who think the Haldi residents are over-reacting, don’t appear to actually live in that residential area.”
Agree completely!
It’s a control freak thing with these type of people.
I find it amusing that some people figure that because you may or may not live in the Haldi Rd. area, that determines in their eyes whether you are ‘allowed’ to have an opinion.
Posted by: JohnnyBelt on December 20 2012 9:16 AM
I find it amusing that some people figure that because you may or may not live in the Haldi Rd. area, that determines in their eyes whether you are ‘allowed’ to have an opinion.
Some people like who? The NIMBY callers? Or people that make no sence? or s**t Disturbers that want to degrade the story or fact on the true issue’s? What are you reffering to JohnnyBelt?
I see the BC CBC has picked up this story, so it is getting some traction.
Who knows maybe it will go National.
007: “Some people like who? The NIMBY callers? Or people that make no sence? or s**t Disturbers that want to degrade the story or fact on the true issue’s? What are you reffering to JohnnyBelt? “
Wow. Someone’s defensive. So, your way is the only way to see this issue? Anybody who disagrees with you is not allowed to say anything? Good luck with that.
Roger roger
Posted by: Palopu on December 20 2012 1:30 PM
I see the BC CBC has picked up this story, so it is getting some traction.
Who knows maybe it will go National.
I hope it does. Everyone is fed up.
Saw the CBC story and browsed through the comments. Unfortunately, when it comes to perception of an event by people from afar, the facts are often irrelevant. So having said that, here is my synopsis:
PG City Council with yet ANOTHER brain cramp has pretty much guaranteed that this issue makes Provincial and possibly National headlines. Those that see the story in these outlets will almost certainly envision PG as a city that does not care about providing support services to people in need within the community. This PURELY as a result of the City making a bonehead decision in not finding a location for this needed facility that fits within the existing OCP.
For a city looking to improve its reputation it sure does have a problem seeing the big picture associated with their actions. Talk about living in a bubble and having a complete and utter lack of anything remotely connected to vision or foresight.
Good grief!!!!!
Oh and if they can’t figure something this simple out, how the heck can anyone expect them to:
1) Manage the city finances
2) Manage developments ad city growth
3) Develop strategies to attract investment
4) Do anything that falls under the mandate of what a city should do . . .
What an inept group of people running that show.
it actually seems that it would serve the city right to loose a milion bucks for their ignorance.. an expensive lesson learned and perhaps haldi leaving the city in the dust will lead to a city dust storm that they will not be able to settle…it is about time the mayor and council were forced to listen to the electorate…go haldi residents!!!!
I honestly feel that they do not have the faintest clue what an OCP is. They just look at it as a bunch of legal words that they have to work around …. one of those hurdles which the province has created for them.
They really ought to read the local government act for content someday before they retire.
Thanks for the laugh Gus LOL. Do you think they will actually read something? LOL They get paid to listen to “advice” LOL.
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