Should Canada nix the nickel next?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/01/03/bc-nickel.html?cmp=rss

Get with the program. Put chips in our arm and we won’t need cash ;)

Maybe someone can look into why the city notices in another rag looks to the common lay person the OCP changes the city wants to make looks like the changes will only be for a certain area.

When in fact the city according to the proposal submitted from L & M states the changes for the WHOLE city. Why does the public only get half of the story?

The people of this city deserve the full truth. If this MAJOR OCP change goes through it will set a precedence that the city can carry on doing what ever they want. This OCP is for ALL of the city!

You can read it on the city website-changes for ALL RURAL IN THIS CITY

January 10 and Feb 3rd have your say and become a concerned citizen. Lets show the city the whole of the city should not be changed for one developer no matter who it is.

Whenever I buy a newspaper or buy gas, I find myself in line behind someone selecting scratch-and-lose lottery tickets or buying cigarettes.

As long as people have money for gambling and feeding an expensive nicotine habit they have no cause to complain about a lack of money for necessities.

There, let’s start a cool Friday with this one!

I hate standing in grocery line-ups. Not for the obvious reason but because of all those damned gossip magazines littering the racks that are impossible to ignore. It amazes me people buy this garbage, but that’s a rant for another day.

Then I had an “I’m getting old” moment…. It dawned on me that don’t know anybody on the covers anymore. I don’t recognize them, never heard of them. It was kind of refreshing actually.

I was just wondering. Who is the person to talk to to change the timing on some of these intersection lights. Namely all the ones on the bypass and hwy 16 and 97?

In a traffic circle, you yield to people in the circle, you do not yield to people waiting to get into the circle. Not following the simple rules for traffic circles makes something that is supposed improve intersection safety more dangerous.

“As long as people have money for gambling and feeding an expensive nicotine habit they have no cause to complain about a lack of money for necessities.”
I suspect that those who feed their addictions consider these things “necessities” rather than luxuries.
It’s all about perspective, I guess.

does anyone besides me think a roundabout would work at 97 and 16? Lots of wasted fuel and time there.

((Pylot Project. Then I had an “I’m getting old” moment…. It dawned on me that don’t know anybody on the covers anymore. I don’t recognize them, never heard of them. It was kind of refreshing actually.))
Welcome to the club.

In case you don’t know….If you go to the hospital in an Ambulance it doesn’t mean you automatically get bumped to the front of the line. Oftentimes there are people in there who are much sicker than you. They will be seen first and you’ll be seen when they get to you.

If you’re in there because of a headache and someone else comes in behind you having a heart attack….well it’s just common sense that they get attended to first. However…common sense just isn’t that common anymore.

Figure it out people!

Has there ever been an ‘Official Community Plan’ anywhere that’s ever been followed? Every one of them of which I’m aware has been changed as soon as someone with enough money behind them to get what they want waltzes in and wants one changed. They only seem to be set in stone for those of us who would use what limited money we have to actually ‘do’ something on a piece of property, not buy permission to do it. These OCPs, however well intentioned they’re made out to be, are literally strangling the life out of the ‘small businesses’ those in office are always alluding to as the driving force of the economy. And to what end? Do we have better communities as a result?

i don’t advocate excessive speed, but i shake my head at the number of pg drivers who must believe rear view mirrors are for putting on makeup. a huge line of cars behind you is a good sign that you’re driving too slow and/or blocking both lanes while oblivious to the traffic around you. move over!

Is anyone else sick and tired of the catholic church ads on tv trying to guilt people to fill the empty pews.

Want to raise attendance, here are a few ideas:

1. Bring the church out of the 90’s….the 1690’s
2.Start facing up to abuse that has taken place(and still is) and quit playing three card monti with the priests who are guilty.
3.If you allow priests to marry maybe they will leave the kids alone.
3.Allowing women clergy members is long overdue.

Could go on and on with birth control, marriage and divorce, connections with Italian mafia, etc etc. There is a reason why there are less bums in the seats and unless the church changes to become more relevant in today’s society that trend will continue.

@guesswhat
I don’t have a chip in my arm but I have in my card.

Cash is very rarely in my hands as a matter of fact money is disgustingly dirty. So do away with all of it as far I’m concerned. Cool thing about one of my cards is every now and then they send me a 50.00 dollar check!

People can spend their money on whatever the hell they want. It is a free country. The only time I disagree is when they live on social assistance. That should be for basics only, beyond that if they want to buy cigarrettes, booze, magazines, gamble it or make it into paper airplanes and fly it out the window it is noones business but their own.

Spent quite a while this morning reading the comments on the Theresa Spence idle no more protest on the G&M website(over 2000 comments)

While the living conditions on the northern reserves are deplorable what entered my mind was how my grandfather lived when starting out on his homestead, much harsher, tiny shack with a sod roof. Did he(and my grandmother) whine and cry “poor me”? NO they worked their tails off including working on a neighbouring farm to earn a few bucks while they broke the land on their 160 acres. Within a couple of years had a decent house that was still standing until a few years ago.

When he finally retired at 70 he passed on a farm of quite a few sections. One of the sons took over the farm while the other kids found work outside the farm. So within a couple of generations went from living in a sod covered shack to one where me and all my siblings have some form of post secondary education.

So at the end of the day what I take out of this is…. willing to help those who help themselves.

“So do away with all of it as far I’m concerned” .. and then you lose control over it. Imagine if ALL money was simply numbers through a computer, how easy it would be for the govt or canada revenue or someone to seize EVERY last dime of your money until you conform to some stupid law or rule they enact. At least with hard cash you can always keep some hidden away from greedy govt hands.

Hide all the cash you want. If society goes cashless your stuffed mattress will be worthless. Just think of the money they could save in welfare fraud alone!

Lots of interesting posts this morning. I like the idea of a traffic circle at 16 and 97.

I completely agree with lonesome about the Idle No More protests. Until the Natives start to show some progress on their own, we should not be helping them.

They already get free handouts the like I would dream about and pay no tax whatsoever. By the time you add up income tax, CPP, EI, HST, property tax and all the other government fees, I’m not sure if I even get to take home 50% of my paycheck.

The natives should be integrated into society just like every other ethnic group in Canada and do their fair share for the country. Why are we treating them different than the Irish, Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Germans, Iranians, and the other 200 groups of people that call Canada home?

porter: “People can spend their money on whatever the hell they want. It is a free country. The only time I disagree is when they live on social assistance. That should be for basics only, beyond that if they want to buy cigarrettes, booze, magazines, gamble it or make it into paper airplanes and fly it out the window it is noones business but their own.”

I totally agree. But I think the original point was that the people who spend money on lottery tickets and cigs are often the same ones complaining they don’t have enough to make ends meet.

Ya lets get rid of money. I always wanted to trade goats for fixing my neighbours car!

Is that why you have a goat on the front of your truck?

I think Darwin was right!

A traffic circle at 16 and 97, you are kidding right? Did you forget the sarc tag?

Drivers in this town cannot figure out the two small traffic circles we already have let alone a very large one with multiple lanes. Heck most drivers are completely bamboozled by the simple concept of merge.

Soon the HST will be EXTINGUISHED. 87 days and counting. I wonder if the citizen will have this feature on thier front page like they had when they were getting ready to enact this lie. I remember they had “countdown to the HST. 20 days to go”
Let’s see if they will do the same thing to announce the end of this ripoff. I remember them enjoying rubbing our faces in it daily prior to July 1, 2010. Probably not though. They are of course going to have to pay tax again like all these other businesses. Go ahead raise your prices. Raise them lots. Will be a really smart move for you. Will just make you lose more customers. Your greed is going to bankrupt you. Pay your share business and get them registers re-programmed and start paying your share April first. We the people should and will not be subjected to paying 100 percent any more. You are going to pay and eat the costs, just like all of us have to. Thank you Bill.

One has to wonder what mattyc is gonna rant about after the HST is gone. All those waking hours to fill, eh?

Actually lonesome I’d never own a truck with a Ram Sheep on the hood. I own a Silverado cause I know an awesome piece of equipment when I see one and I have more class than owning a Dodge.

I see there have been many small business owners in the news making comments about how their prices are going to increase because of the increased costs to them from going back to pst/gst.

Makes you wonder why prices would have to go up when they never went down under the HST.

A traffic circle at 16 and 97. How entertaining. Bleachers could be erected for the public to view mayhem. A traffic circle at 16 and 97 would make a monster truck show look tame. Certainly would be a hit on reality TV.
With the advent of the internet, comparison shopping is easily accomplished. Usually the retailer with the best price can be obtained without ever leaving home. Some Chinese sites like DH Gate offer free shipping, reduced prices, and chances are the items purchased will arrive at your door without incurring HST.

“Makes you wonder why prices would have to go up when they never went down under the HST.”

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the small business owner was finally able to see a little bit of profit thanks to the HST.

Was at London Drugs before Christmas and they were more than happy to beat the price on Amazon.ca for some stereo equipment. So don’t neglect the local guy when shopping for the best price.

Should setup bleachers at 16 & 97 now just to watch the confusion on the silly sign called “Merge”. Not only do people stop at the merge alot of other drivers won’t yield to those merging or move to the other lane so they can get in.

I think the lights along the bypass are working just fine. It took a lot of years for them to get them right. Its the intersectons in town with camera sensors, (which were supposed to save a lot of money) that they don’t seem to have a clue as to how to set properly. Now we have 15th and Carney cycling too. That’s on top of the six or seven other intersections that are doing the same.

FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!

tractor, I had a backender at Ospica and 15th Ave. A bus made a left hand turn on an amber light. I fooled the driver behind me and topped for the bus.

I wrote to ICBC and explained that I didnt think there should be a green ight after the left turn arrow. Having a green on the left turn and a greem on through trafficc his encourages drives to make left turns on a green through traffic.

The biggeast problem is that traffic is timed and it just dosent work. There needs to be a counter for each vehile that crosses the stop line so that when traffic starts to stragle the signal is changed.

I’m sure tnat ICBC will give your ideas more attention then the dummies that now service our traffic signals.
Cheers

“gossip magazines littering the racks that are impossible to ignore”

What gossip magazines?

Besides, as avid readers of gossip on here, we shoul be picking up as many of those a possible to give us some true gossip to pass on.

;-)

@ Pylot Project, After seeing the pics on the mags at check out next stop is peeler bar…

@lonesome sparrow, 5.Don`t forget the gay card,after all we are all born gay.

@guesswhat, If I had a chip in me the automatic doors would never open for me..

Please see Bens comments about how he hopes bloggers will stop the name calling. The “dummies” comment above nullifies my interest in your opinion.

Give more, I have to disagree with you on this one. There are still, times when there is no traffic movement and the lights are still green on the Bypass/

I have to agree that the cmaeras the city uses for traffic detection are just anoter short cut to control traffic flow by timing. At one time loops were cut at the stop line to actually count the traffic. But no more.

The big picture today is to cut costa and to heck with how the traffic moves. And people have to learn about how traffic flow works. The idea that the inside lane is the fast lane and the outside lane s for slower traffic. Remember that there are speed limits and we should all try to obey them.
Cheers

The problem with the bypass lights is when people turn onto the bypass. It changes the second they get near the intersection causing the cycle to go. It should have a 10 or 15 sec delay and that way it wouldn’t cycle near as much. In the early morning hours is where I find a problem.

“does anyone besides me think a roundabout would work at 97 and 16”

Without trucks … yes.

Guide Meridian, a 4 lane state highway going from the Canadian border crossing to Bellingham has traffic circles spaced say 2 to 3 miles appart. The highway speed is 50mph. Works like a hot damm.

http://blogs.bellinghamherald.com/traffic/category/roundabouts/page/12

Mercenary – you are correct. Although there must have been some damn sick people-in the er when I was brought in via ambulance with a suspected stroke. My husband took our child to daycare,let daycare know what was happening and came to the ER to find me still in the hallway obviously not doing well.At some point they helped me over to a gurney but I only have vague recollection of that.If it wasn’t for my husband asking them when I would be seen as I wasn’t doing well,I don’t know when I would have gotten seen. It was a stroke for the record

“Why are we treating them different than the Irish, Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Germans, Iranians, and the other 200 groups of people that call Canada home?”

Because this was their land and all those other people left their land to take this land over …..

Possession is 9/10ths of the law …. except in the case of aboriginals almost everywhere in the world. Why???

Want to see Spanish/Portuguese and aboriginals integrated in society? Go to many of the South American countries.

“Heck most drivers are completely bamboozled by the simple concept of merge.”

I am loving the length of the merge lanes on the interstates in the USA …. including solid line at the beginning and broken line not till near the end. Drivers both in the traffic as well as entering the traffic seem to be very familiar with right of way as well as proper speed protocol. The trans Canada between Chilliwack and Vancouver is a killer compared to that.

Dragonmaster: “Makes you wonder why prices would have to go up when they never went down under the HST”

DUH!!! How about they did not go down because it costs to change systems. That cost was offset by the potential/actual savings.

So the theory is, there will not be potential savings by changing back, but there will still be costs to change ….

Of course, the costs will vary from business to business.

Fact is, unless you are close to such a business, you really do not have a clue of what the costs might be and what they are for.

“I still wish they would go to just having sales tax and not having income tax. It would sure go a long ways to helping with the debt crisis we have in Canada. They could phase it in to prevent crushing the economy.”

The state of Washington has no income tax. They have variable sals taxes since the Cities can add a limited sales tax if they wish. The total sales tax is in the order of 8 to 9%.

Seems to work fine. But to me it is still regressive.

I would hate to have to buy a clothes if I have an income fo say $20,000/year and know that the cheap shoes I have to buy will disintegrate aftr a year of wearing them while the person with an $80,000 income can buy 5 pairs for different occasions and weather conditions and some of better quality which last longer.

Then again, these days many people run around like slobs …. and if their clothes do not wear out fast enough, they can always buy designer clothes with rips and tears in them …. ;-)

The lights at 4th and queensway are the ones that get me. Pretty frustrating to sit and wait for the green light to cycle through both directions before getting a green on Queensway. How about pressure switchs to allow 4th to turn green when it needs to.

“Because this was their land and all those other people left their land to take this land over …..

Possession is 9/10ths of the law …. except in the case of aboriginals almost everywhere in the world. Why???

Want to see Spanish/Portuguese and aboriginals integrated in society? Go to many of the South American countries.”

That was then, this is now. Get over it. Why are we living in the past with a broken system? We need to go forward and fix the system to create equality.

When the British created the Act of Union to control Scotland in 1707, the Scots never expected payments and government assistance. And they still don’t. They said let’s go forward and create a better Great Britain. And Great Britain went on to become a world superpower in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.

the plow truck did my street around midnight last night, the snow is hard packed now and the plow didnt pick up anything! they wonder why they run out of funds for snow removal? well i have a pretty goo idea why! it pisses me off no end to see plow truck throwing sparks down the road… a waste of tax payers money. Go PG

There is evidence that the Polynesians were in the Pacific Northwest of North America long before any of the current tribes were(google Kenniwick man.) So our aboriginals too are merely immigrants, no different than those who came from Europe, China, Japan, etc.

“I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the small business owner was finally able to see a little bit of profit thanks to the HST.”

Hahahaha, hehehe, LOLOLOL, LMAO!!!!!!
Pick myself up off the floor as I wipe the tears from my eyes.

“Not only do people stop at the merge alot of other drivers won’t yield to those merging”

Merge means merge it doesn’t mean vehicles on the hwy are to be yielding to merging traffic. Thats just stupid.

You completely missed the point Gus.

I see Todd Whitcombe a Citizen contributor is shedding a tear for the demise of Kyoto. He displays some big numbers of man caused Co2 but neglects to compare these numbers against atmospheric composition of gases. Out of all the gases that make up the atmosphere, so called greenhouse gases only make up 2% and of that two percent, “planet-killing” carbon dioxide comprises only 3.62 percent while water vapour encompasses 95 percent. And of the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere ,total human greenhouse contributions add up to about 0.28% of the so called greenhouse effect and by the way science cannot even agree how much effect there is, if any at all.
So there is hundreds of million being spent, money being taken away from pressing environmental concerns. Kyoto focuses primarily on reducing CO2, a gas required for growing out plant life, think food, and does nothing to control real air pollution like NOx, SO2, and particulates, or serious pollutants in water and soil. The money spent on Kyoto in one year would provide clean drinking water and sanitation for all the people of the developing world in perpetuity.
Oh Todd by the why, the IPCC keeps revising their future temperature “predictions” downward and at the rate they are doing that we will be in an ice age in a hundred years. That is meant as a funny.

Anyhow despite rising C02 levels there has been no global warming for almost 17 years, haw can that be, goes against all predictions by the warmers.

How is that Carbon tax on transportation fuel and heating fuel working out for you all? Is it affecting any quality of life issues here because of higher costs? Fuel is less than a dollar in parts of Alberta.

from the DriveBC website – “In the case of a sign that actually displays the word merge on it, neither driver has right of way over the other. Both drivers must take care to accomodate each other as they move to take up positions to enter the single lane ahead.”

so yes Dragon, Merge means merge and the traffic on the highway is equally responsible
“Merge means merge it doesn’t mean vehicles on the hwy are to be yielding to merging traffic.” – completely wrong…

“”I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the small business owner was finally able to see a little bit of profit thanks to the HST.”

Hahahaha, hehehe, LOLOLOL, LMAO!!!!!!
Pick myself up off the floor as I wipe the tears from my eyes.”

————————

If you have evidence to the contrary I’m more then willing to consider it. Did your small business not do better once the HST came in?

“When the British created the Act of Union to control Scotland in 1707 ….. ” etc, etc. etc.

LOL .. talk about living in the past!!!

They became a superpower because they overpowered the powerless …… and left the world in a mess!!!!!

When you look at the USA today … does something ring a bell?????

The Brits left the native population unresolved everywhere they went …. including Scotland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9609490/Scotland-to-vote-on-leaving-the-Union-as-David-Cameron-agrees-referendum.html

I see you do not keep uo with current affairs, Hummer.

;-)

mattyc

Business does pay its way, unlike you.

mattyc, there are other keys on your keyboard that are just as interesting as ctrl-v.

vulgar sage, I know nothing of peeler bars ;-)

“Police are asking people to stop using social media services like Twitter to share the location of road blocks set up to catch drunk drivers.”

By making that request they’ve just tipped off the rest of the people not paying attention.

Side-note, I’d hate to be anywhere near a drunk who also reads texts while driving.

There was a house painter that had all the answers yo forma great society He wrote a book outlining how things should be done for a perfect order. There was no mess when in his great society came to be the government. It was a great plan and many accepted it. But for law and order those that didn’t were either shot or thrown into concentration camps where they slowly starved to death if they didn’t comply with the rules. Its called a dictatorship.

The British system may have left their empire in a mess but at least it was done in a democratic manner and most like Canada have survived and flourished. Probably if we could find a solution to greed it would perhaps be even more democratic.
Cheers

In response to the comments about First Nations people:

My grandparents had it just as tough, why don’t they just integrate, why don’t they just suck it up and get over it:

Really? Did your grandparents have a legal agreement with the government of the day (England) that entitled them to use the land as they wished – hunting, fishing, etc. and based on that agreement decide to live in harmony with newcomers? (Preventing war, or the people/government of the day from having to buy it).

Did your grandparents or parents live through the newcomers changing that law against their will and against the law?

Were they forced to move to inhabitable areas of the country so the newcomers could prosper while they withered?

Were your grandparents forcibly removed from their parents, abused, punished for using their language and following their traditions, and then released back to a society that they had no place in? White people didn’t want them – they were still Indian. Yet they didn’t fit with the other First Nations people either.

Did your grandparents suffer from a childhood without love, without comfort and without recourse afterwards?

Were they left without the skills to raise their own children?

Do you know that many 50 year olds in this area are residential school survivors? And that their children may be suffering because of the damage done to these survivors?

Wait – your grandparents who worked that land and built that house – they were likely new immigrants GIVEN land by a government that did not have the right to give it.

The First Nations people at that time – they weren’t ALLOWED to own land – by that same government.

Until the 1950s it was actually illegal for an Indian to leave the reserve without permission – thankfully enforcement stopped years before the law was struck. That is right, depending on your age – that could be you or your parents. This happened that recently.

As for why they don’t just integrate or ‘suck it up and get over it’: The law is strongly on their side. If the law was on your side, are you saying you wouldn’t fight for your rights?

The reason we are in the mess we are in now is because no government has ever dealt with the issues.

In 1927 the BC Government made it illegal for First Nations to persue land claims. This ruling went against former agreements made by Royal Decree.

It was only in the 1970s that this law was revoked, the law was challenged, and Indian rights and title were upheld in the Supreme Court.

What the First Nations are asking for is actually legally theirs. And the reason they are asking now is because your grandfather’s generation elected people who broke the law and made it illegal for them to act then.

So – really, it is YOU who needs to integrate with the ‘new’ Canada that is coming – one with recognized First Nation treaties and agreements. It is you who has to ‘suck it up’ and face the fact that these wrongs will no longer be permitted.

Maybe all non-natives should leave this country. Would that make everybody happy?

Who said that? Maybe the law should apply equally to everyone. Would that make everybody happy?

Oil from Alberta being discounted $40.00 per barrel below WTI. Certainly not reflected in the price of gasoline in PG. Gasoline in Arizona for example is $0.33 cents a liter cheaper than PG and the gasoline is probably made from Alberta Crude. Oh how we pay in the great white north.

Thanks for reminding us of that bit of factual history which persists to this day, jales4.

Whether any indigenous person ever said it or not, the words “white man speak with forked tongue” come to mind.

Jales4, my grandparents were born in Europe, got married and worked their butts off. They became some of the well-off in their village, if having two horses instead of only one and three cows instead of only two can be considered well off. Because of persecution from the Russian Government, they left absolutely everything behind and came to Canada with 3 young children and the clothes on their backs. Nobody apologized to them for the persecution that was inflicted upon them. It was a different time, a very long time ago.

When they arrived in Canada in the early part of the last century, they travelled west to Alberta. They dug a hole in the side of the hill in northern Alberta and made a one room hut with a sod roof and a dirt floor. They worked hard to clear land and plant crops. Eventually they built a two room house, again with sod roof and a dirt floor. My mother was born in this house and the family lived in this house for many more years. The entire family worked and they worked hard, very hard to build a better life. They contributed to the economy both with the taxes that they paid and with the crops that they sold. Nobody gave them anything, they worked hard for what they had!

My grandparents worked hard for their entire working years, raised a family and then eventually were able to enjoy a very modest retirement. I’ve witnessed my parents doing the exact same thing, working hard, raising a family, paying taxes and contributing to the betterment of society both with the taxes that they paid and their contributions to their community.

I never heard my grandparents complain and I never heard my parents complain. They were too busy working, paying bills, raising a family and paying taxes to help provide services to everyone, even those that chose not to work and contribute! They never took anything from anybody, rather they gave their entire working lives, in taxes and in personal contributions by joining service agencies and organizations that helped fund raise for those that needed help.

Some people think that the land is theirs, that this country belongs to them and only them and that others, like my grandparents and parents somehow took it away from them. If these people think that this land should be given back to them, then these same people should be more than willing to give back all of the assistance that has been provided for and to them over many many years! Pay them back for the housing, the medical care, the food on the table and the clothes on their backs.

Do all of this and maybe people like my parents and grandparents will be willing to give back what others somehow think was taken from them!

Re; Natives

What a grand idea.. Send all the non Natives back on the boat..ahahahha Actually, a lot of them in PG pay taxes just like everyone else.. yess they even own houses they have mortgages for. I think a lot of people need to be educated bout our natives we live next door to.. I’m proud to be living on same street as them.

Question… whatever happened to the Cariboo restaurant ?? They silently disappeared into the darkness??? I still have a Gift certificate for that place and decided to go there tonight and there was a Realtor’s sign on the door.. wow…

Hartguy your grandparents sound like wonderful people whose example we should all follow. My comments are in no way personal to them or to you – my ‘grandparent’ comments are directed at a generation.

They never took anything from anybody…. no, they didn’t. But people were legally wronged. The fact that they were legally wronged was upheld in the Supreme Court in 1982.

That decision stated that their land use and rights to resources harvest from lands had been violated.

If the government could have had it any other way, they would have – but law prevailed.

That decision led us to where we are now – the government has to start following the law.

The BC Provincial Government sent information and ballots to every BC Adult Citizen in the early 1990s – yes 1990s.

The information explained what had happened in the past, the legal ruling, the options available to the government.

Citizens cast their ballots and determined that the BC Treaty Process should be established to settle land and resource claims once and for all.

The Treaty Process is underway, on track, on budget. Many BC First Nation communities at Stage 4 of the 6 stage process, which is the most expensive part of the process – so this may change.

First Nations are not asking people to give back what was taken, they are asking for what is legally theirs.

They have received assistance, yes, but this is instead of the resource revenues they should have received – either for the sale of land or as part of treaty agreements that should have been negotiated in the early 1900s.

Assistance has also been necessary because First Nations peoples have been sent to barren, useless pieces of land, where they have not been able to prosper – and weren’t allowed to leave.

Assistance has been given to help First Nations people recover from the social and economic damages created by Indian Act laws and Residential Schools.

Assistance has been given because the tools that would have allowed First Nations people to prosper, individually and collectively, have been denied.

How can a First Nations person build a house, when the Indian Act says he cannot own the land, nor the home? He surely cannot get a loan. Yet to this day, home ownership is denied those living on reservations.

How can a First Nation community build rec centres, schools, band offices, parks, water treatment facilities, graveyards, etc. when they do not own the land these buildings will sit on?

They can’t collect taxes on properties and infrastructure they don’t own. They can’t take out loans for the same reason.

So, until Treaties are signed that transfer land from the Crown to the First Nation communities – they are unable to do what your grandparents did.

We simply cannot compare grandparents – the circumstances are far too differently.

Remember, please – history is written by those in power. So much of what we think we know, and what we base our opinions and treatments of other people on, is not true.

The biggest misconception is that this is ancient history – when these are current issues.

Please – if you care about being right more than you care about spouting off what is popular (sadly) opinion, educate yourself.

BTW: I may have erred factually in my comments as well – I am no export, nor am I a First Nations person. I am just trying to educate myself, and as I do so, others.

I highly recommend this link: http://bctf.ca/IssuesInEducation.aspx?id=5684

Hart Guy.
My grandparents story is much the same. I am curious how they obtained the land. Was it given to them with the condition that it be farmed?

How can a culture that had no conception of land ownership claim now that they ‘owned’ land?

If you look at a map of BC there are already substantial areas set aside and held as Indian Reserves. Many of them completely vacant of any permanent habitation by natives.

Some prime waterfront properties on Vancouver Island are held in Indian Reserves because, at some time in the past, natives used those properties for shellfish harvesting, or gathering foods, fishing, etc. Substantial properties, before any of the recent land claims added anything to them.

The Robert Brown expedition that first explored central Vancouver Island in the mid 1800’s hired local Indians to guide them inland. But as soon as the natives began to lose sight of the coast, they deserted. They couldn’t navigate in a rain forest at all, they were lost, and terrified to go inland further. That’s verifiable history from Brown’s journals that have survived to this day.

Yet today the descendents of that same tribe are claiming those same lands their ancestors likely never set foot on. While they still hold all the properties they were occupying and using when that area was opened for white settlement. Which they were mighty glad to see, since the protection of the Royal Navy’s gunboats dissuaded the Haida raids that carried off their women and children as slaves at regular intervals. And the settlers brought tools, clothing, blankets, etc. that improved their standard of living greatly.

Today a government beset with the guilt of every real or perceived wrong against the Indians tries its best to accomodate them to assuage itself of this guilt.

There might be some justification if their actions resulted in an improvement in the lives of EACH individual native. But that’s about as unlikely as Britain’s giving independence to its African colonies when it did being of any real lasting benefit to the natives there.

They traded a white Governor, and the rule of law and order, for a black President (for life, in many cases), and no protections in law, or order.

The question today here should be whether or not the INDIVIDUAL native is going to be benefited ‘individually’ through all this governmental largesse. Or will it be like Africa, where the color of the regime in charge changed, but largely for the worse in regards to the lives of most individuals there. They’re on their own there. There’s no ‘majority’ to bail them out of the morass into which they’ve sunk. Here, in a few years, will the rest of us be again on the hook for more yet to overcome the depredations that still haven’t been eradicated?

“How can a culture that had no conception of land ownership claim now that they ‘owned’ land?”

I’m not sure. I *think* some bands are asking to own the land their reserves sit on (reserves are generally small), so they can build infrastructure, economic development, etc.

I think traditional territories or traditional land use areas will see the Provincial Government share resource revenues and environmental management with the First Nations, once treaties are signed.

Parts, or all of Vancouver Island have treaties – signed before the BC Government banned treaty making. Perhaps those lands formed part of their treaties – I’m not sure.

“Today a government beset with the guilt of every real or perceived wrong against the Indians tries its best to accomodate them to assuage itself of this guilt.”

No way – the government is being forced to do this – because it has been to the courts and it must legally be done. They are dragging their feet, trying to fight it.

This isn’t about making amends – this is about following the law.

“There might be some justification if their actions resulted in an improvement in the lives of EACH individual native. “

While, housing conditions would likely improve if the person living the house was paying for it – and owned it. Contractors who often do shoddy work on reserve land – and get away with it (no building codes, inspections or standards since it is crown land not municipal or RD). Ownership will mean better care from the resident as well.

Economic development would be enabled, creating jobs for First Nations on reserves, who here in Northern BC have unemployment rates above 50%.

(PLEASE – no one attribute that to lazy indians – let’s have a non-discriminatory conversation).

I really think things will improve for individuals. I think individuals will have more opportunities to live and work and choose their own futures once treaties are signed.

I know for sure that BC will benefit – all the uncertainty around resource development, timber, etc., will be resolved and projects can really get going.

If you are interested in reading what a treaty might consist of, you can look of the Lheidli T’enneh website and look at the treaty they attempted to ratify.

I don’t think anyone here reading it would object to the terms, in fact, I think they would be pleasantly suprised about how after-Treaty BC would benefit everyone.

oldcoot, my grandparents and great-grandparents homesteaded when they arrived in Canada. I believe that they were required to farm the land, although it had to be cleared first in order to then be able to farm it. Every year, they were required to report any improvements to the land, any construction of buildings and fencing and also to report their current livestock numbers. These recorded reports are inventoried in the Government Archivesm, some of which I have seen.

Jales4, re your comment “Remember, please -history is written by those in power. So much of what we think we know, and what we base our opinions and treatments of other people on, is not true.” Sorry, I don’t agree! My grandmother has told me of the many, many aboriginal people that showed up at their farm in the winter, cold, frozen, starving! She told me how her, her parents and their families would take in these starving and freezing individual. She told me how they would feed them, clean them and warm them. She told me how without their help, these aboriginal people would have either frozen to death or starved to death. I don’t think that her recollection of history is a lie, even though she never took the time to write this history down. And she certainly wasn’t someone in power.

As far as your comment about what is true in history, it seems to me that aboriginal peoples speak of how in the past, one nation would wage war with another nation. The victorious nation would often slaughter the men and would take the women and children as slaves who would then be assimilate into their nation. History speaks of these wars. I’m not sure if it was the Apaches at war with the Souix, or the Ojibway at war with the Chippeway. Perhaps the Cherokee at war with the Shawnee. In the lower mainland of BC, we have different First Nations laying claim to the same piece of land in the Fraser Valley. Are we to dismiss this history as inaccurate?

I understand that there are issues that the Aboriginal peoples have with the injustices that they feel were done to them by European settlers, but Indian nations were at war with each other, long before any European settlers showed up in North America. Are they not also concerned about injustices that occurred amongst themselves and when are they planning on addressing those issues?

Jales, if EACH individual native were given land in his own name, and could then decide whether or not he wanted to use that land individually or pool it with other natives collectively, I think there might be some hope this Treaty making process. Maybe.

But so long as the ‘collectivist’ mentality prevails, and is ensconced in a system that the individual native is powerless to change and still subjected to, and each individual native’s ‘individuality’ is submerged within it, I don’t see much really changing.

I’ve worked alongside native Indians, and all of them I knew were as good a workers as anyone else. Some were better. No one paid any attention to the fact they were native any more than they would if they’d been Germans, or Russians, Chinese, or of any other original ethnicity.

Some I’ve known who broke free of that tribal collectivism went on to head some very successful businesses. They were greatly respected, more so in some cases than their white counterparts, because many of us knew they had an unfortunate stigma to overcome. And they did overcome it.

They just need a chance as individuals, to make up their own minds what they want to do, and not have the head of some ‘group’ telling them what is the ‘Indian way’ and that they have to conform to it.

I’m off to bed – but wanted to say that I have read your comments and appreciate your viewpoints – and the history and experienced you have shared.

I don’t think any of us are wrong – and fully believe your grandmothers recollection Hartguy – there are a million different scenarios and situations that played out.

I would never think and hope I haven’t given the opinion that I feel white = bad and First Nation = noble, wronged and owed.

My own grandparents and parents start in Canada was much the same as you describe your grandparents as having.

What I REALLY appreciate is the level of conversation we had – no finger pointing, name calling, or hurtful stereotypes.

Thanks!