-Over $220k in family income
-Over $100 million to her community in the past 5 years
-No documentation on how 60% of the money has been spent
-Kicks out news crew when they come to investigate-PRICELESS

-Credibility- In the words of Elvis Costello- Less Than Zero

That is not funny.

Don’t forget the over 300 million from the diamond mine.

I don’t see anything wrong with a community sharing the wealth from resource development if it creates jobs and betters the living conditions.

Ms. Spence knew full well that the audit of Attawapiskat would be released early this year and IMO the hunger strike was just a publicity stunt to deflect attention from what this audit brings to light.

I realize that construction in the far north is expensive but my god a $100 million investment should make some kind of improvement that is noticeable,other than the Cadillac in the Spence driveway:( She is all for the cameras stuck in her face but sure changes her tune when someone wants to follow the money trail.

Hand up not a hand out.

She also must have quite a few Snicker bars tucked under the mattress as looks nothing like Mahatma Gandhi after a month on liquids.

More chins than a Hong Kong phonebook.

Best. Thread. EVER.

:-)

Maybe they are building a new cop shop in Attawapiskat or a certain local person is tired of recent coverage in the media and has moved there to help with the development;P

Sadly, even with this current Chief Spence and Attawapiskat scandal/crisis, nothing will change. First Nation Chiefs will continue to cry, whine and pout about how hard done by our indiginous peoples are. At the same time, they will be screwing their own people out of Federal Transfer Funds that should be spent supporting the average band member! Some Chiefs haven’t worked a day in their lives, at least “worked” as per my definition of work and yet they live in houses and drive vehicles that I could only dream of owning! All if this while their band members live in poverty.
Even with this current situation, in a few weeks things will quiet down and will soon go back to “normal” because our politicians lack the courage and will to finally put an end to the corruption. After all, if you say anything about this situation and the corruption, you are called a racist!

Hart Guy – “Even with this current situation, in a few weeks things will quiet down and will soon go back to “normal” because our politicians lack the courage and will to finally put an end to the corruption. After all, if you say anything about this situation and the corruption, you are called a racist!”

Very true.

The ironic pat of this is we ourselves are being racist by singling them out and having the government provide for their housing and basic living arrangements.

No other ethnic group in Canada has been given this privilege. Why do we give it to the First Nations?

That’s racism.

We should stop all government subsidized behavior and the First Nations should be standing on their own 2 feet by working steady jobs like the rest of society.

The entire idea of subsidizing one ethnic group and not any others is ridiculous.

hunger strike! She has not lost 1 pound. What a slap in the face of our First Nation Citizens.

100 million they recieved is enough to build 650 New homes.

This will all come to a head in the next decade or so. It won’t be too far in the future where we will have either a Prime Minister Singh, Wong or Muhammed.

The immigrants over the last 100 years are not going to give a rat’s behind what happened before they arrived.

The times, they are a’changin’.

I hate what I am about to say, I really do, but every once in a while, things just need to be said….
Chief Spence has been on a hunger strike for almost a month. She took this action to force a meeting with the Prime Minister. A meeting has now been granted and is scheduled to take place on Friday.
Chief Spence has now indicated that she will not be attending this meeting. Various reasons are coming forward, but rumour has it that she will not be attending because she has a conflicting appointment scheduled with Weight Watchers. She is concerned about the extra 30 pounds that she has gained during the past month of her hunger strike!
Again, sorry, but I just had to say it!

I agree Pylot. The current Canadian citizenry is still European based in it’s guilt complex, but what happens when the majority has it’s roots in India and China and someone says – hey, we gotta give these 1.2 million people money every month because when the British arrived they signed deals. I think you’ll hear a lot of WTF’s. We didn’t sign any deal. Then you’ll see the cash flow stopping, the protests starting, and then you’ll see FN people finding themselves in essentially gulags because the Asian way of dealing with dissent is drastically different than ours. The best thing the FN’s can do, is get their act together while they’re still dealing with governments that respect the treaties to some extent, start adding to the wealth of Canada, and maybe with those 1.2 million FN working and building this country, we might not need so many people from other countries, and can hang on to our cultural identity just a few more decades. Right now we’re importing foreign workers, while we have people born here, who just wont’/can’t work, but expect to be taken care of or they’ll throw a fit and block a road. How long can this go on.

Chins!!————ROFLMFIAO.
fi = Fat Irish
metalman.

” if you say anything ….. you are called a racist!”

I think most people who read this thread know exactly what the posters are!

^^

The majority?

ammonra:

Would be very interested to hear your defense of Ms. Spence.

Was reading an article in the Globe were she says that the government is not acting in good faith in releasing the audit, offering no explanation for the shoddy or non existent documentation. Sorry Theresa but the government has an obligation to the taxpayers to see that tax dollars are spent in an open way and for the purpose they were intended. If you do not want to be cast in a bad light, use your power as chief to clean things up.

ammonra:

Really? Really????

I have very good friends that are East Indian, others who are French, some that are African and African-American. I have friends that are Jewish, Muslim, Christian and athiest. I even have friends and have had coworkers who are First Nations.

All of these people have my respect because they all do one thing. Like me they go to work, earn a living, support their families and pay taxes that are used to provide the support and services that we ask of a modern society.

And then we have Teresa Spence and her boyfriend! Stealing money that has been provided to her band in order to provide for the health and welfare of it’s members! If we question this fact, then you suggest that some of us are rascist!

Really Ammonra, get over yourself. Would you rather we keep our mouths shut and allow this corruption to continue to the detriment of the average man, woman and child on the reserve. Maybe we should keep our mouths shut, while families freeze their butts of in inadequate housing while Spence and her ilk live in luxury. Get real! It’s time to start rocking the boat! REALLY!

The cartoon is NOT funny.

We can hardly solve these problems if we continue to paint everyone with the same brush.

Insofar as the Chinese, Indians, etc; taking over Canada, as usual we have a bunch of **nincompoops** who actually believe that these people are chomping at the bit to come here.

1. China will not let people immigrate to this Country enmasse. They need 15 Million people per year just to fill thier own needs.

2. India will be a major player on the world scene for years to come. Why would you leave India and come to Canada when the action will be in India/China??

3. Canada presently allows some 250,000 immigrants per year, however this barely changes the population because Canadian are having approx 1.5 children per family per year. Even if we increased immigration by 100% we would still be short millions of workers in the next 75 years. We would have to increase births to 6 babies per family and even then we would fall short of the actual need.

4. The days when people were lining up to come to Canada are for all intents and purposes over. We are relagated to be hewers of wood, and haulers of water. The same fate awaits the USA, less workers, and less immigration,.

5. Why do you think the Government got rid of manditory retirement, why do you think they are changing the old age pension eligibility from 65 to 67. Why are all industries trying to keep thier older workers, when a few years ago they couldnt get rid of them fast enough???

We are in for some major problems between now and 2075,.

The single growing demographic in Canada are First Nations.(approx 6 per family) There is a huge push on to have these people educated, so that they can get into the work force. In fact it has been happening for quite sometime.

Natives will be big players, in the extraction of minerals, the enviorment, logging, pipelines, fishing, etc; etc;

Get used to the idea, and start NOW to change your attitudes, because to-morrow your boss may very well be a native.

Have a nice day.

Lonesome Sparrow, I don’t particularly want to defend Ms. Spence. I’m sure she is quite capable of defending herself, but note the political opinions expressed in the first two articles on this blog.

http://drdawgsblawg.ca/

To Hart Guy. I did not call anyone racist. You were the poster who first raised the issue and used the term, not I. I merely pointed out that people who read the posts would be able to easily make up their own minds. Incidentally, I suggest you be careful about accusing someone of “stealing money”, it might be considered libelous and could open you (and Ben) up to an action for defamation.

As for your final paragraph, I would point out that it is eminently possible to make political points without also making snide remarks or also making unsupported accusations of criminal behavior about someone. Try it, you might like it.

By the way, I think you read into my post more than was there. Guilty conscience, perhaps?

Incidentally, I honestly didn’t get the point the cartoonist was making. Coulkd someone explain it, please.

perhaps the natives could take a lesson from the Scots or any other group who were also overrun by the English and still managed to pull themselves up by the straps of their work boots. Taking todays laws and ethics and applying them to deeds done 200 yrs ago is crap. First nations today are nothing more then lazy white people, I mean if it’s so tough being a native why is everyone trying to be one ie the golden status card.
As for Spence she has now declined her meeting with Harper ?? This woman is a shyster through and through and it’s all coming out in the wash.

Canada under Harper is turning more and more into a racist country with no respect for human rights, especially for first nations. Wasn’t 2012, the 200 anniversary of first nations helping the British crown to defeat the Americans?

I don’t understand this double crossing and back stabbing the first nations in Canada. I am not first nation or metis, but I feel ashamed to be a Canadian, I feel ashamed of the treatment of the first nations by previous Canadian governments, I feel ashamed of residential schools.

If the Quebec motto is je me souviens, the Canadian one should be “I feel ashamed …”

perhaps the natives could take a lesson from the Scots or any other group who were also overrun by the English and still managed to pull themselves up by the straps of their work boots. Taking todays laws and ethics and applying them to deeds done 200 yrs ago is crap. First nations today are nothing more then lazy white people, I mean if it’s so tough being a native why is everyone trying to be one ie the golden status card.
As for Spence she has now declined her meeting with Harper ?? This woman is a shyster through and through and it’s all coming out in the wash.

Je me souviens? And all this time I thought it meant “I am soup”.

I would be ashamed if I were the leader of a community of about 1500 that has had $104,000,000.00 pumped into it and still have people living in such squalled conditions.

With about 6 or 7 hundred houses that is well over $150k per household!

Have not read the full report yet but shook my head at a lot of the entries in appendix B
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/551444-deloitte-audit.html

Chief Spence is an embarrassment to First Nations people everywhere. She has zero credibility and should be in jail.

I believe that between her and her partner they bring in a COOL $400,000.00 A YEAR.

ammonra, how can Chief Spence’s actions be seen as anything less than theft. She lives very well while her band members suffer. She drives a freaking Cadillac Escalade while her people walk because their vehicle is broken down and they have no money to fix it. I am sure that Chief Spence lives in a house with a furnace that works and with hot and cold running water, while members of her band, including children suffer.
It seems to me that some people are very vocal when we expose corruption within government or within corporations. Many cry out for punishment, including jail time for those that have “stolen” from the shareholder or the tax-payers. As a right wing conservatist, I have absolutely no problems with joining others to voice my concerns over these types of corruptions and I consider it theft! But when we have what seems to be corruption within our welfare or aboriginal systems, many of those previously vocal individuals are conspicuosly silent. I’m not sure why that seems to be the case, but it usually seems to be left wing liberal thinkers. If my politicians or business leaders are corrupt and are misappropriating my money or my tax dollar, I feel justified in speaking out. At the same time, if I see my tax dollars being misappropriated, I also feel justified in speaking out. Theft is theft, whether it’s a business leader sticking it to shareholders, a politician lining his or her pockets or a First Nations Chief misappropriating tax dollars for their own benefit, to the detriment of the men, women and children of his or her band. We should all be outraged, whether we are right wing conservatists or liberal left wing thinkers!

if i ever get a feline I’m gonna name it Attawapis …… cat.

Harper lives very well while some Canadians live in poverty. Christy Clarke lives very well while some BCers live in poverty. Does the same argument apply to them as to Chief Spence? Would you say that the poverty of some Canadians is proof of theft. I think not, and rightly so.

Before accusations of criminal activity are bandied about, proof is required or it is just slander. Redefining the words does nothing except justify yourself to yourself, because the rest of society understands them in their usual, accepted meaning.

I don`t know anything about Chief Spence, and as I said previously, I have no interest in defending her. She can defend herself. I do, however, value the Canadian attitude of respect for political opponents and all races. I find personal attacks of the kind you have repeatedly engaged in absolutely reprehensible.

If you have some evidence of wrongdoing by Chief Spence, then make a complaint to the RCMP and request that a criminal investigation be started. If not, allow the fundamental justice principle of innocent until PROVEN guilty to hold sway, unless, of course, that is just meaningless words on paper to you. It is not to me.

I would appreciate it if you would not tar me with a brush by innuendo or inference. I think that all Canadians should be judged by the same standard, the standard of the law and the charter.

Give it up ammonra, it dosen’t take Sherlock Holmes to see this situation reeks. If anything, this hopefully will bring about an adult discusion on the topic. Hiding behind the politicaly correct skirt of ignorance won’t solve the problem.

Harper has introduced changes that will give FN’s more power to lease and control their land. Something most Canadians and BC FN bands ake forgranted. He has also introduced accounting acountability. Given the currant fiasco in antipstttteee(sp), who could possibly argue with that? He has changed marriage rules to non natives. He has done more for FN than any Liberal in 30 years, however some don’t want change and accountability. To that I say a solid, “to bad”.

Dow7500- do you know what those changes are that make it easier for band councils to lease land?

Before: a majority of band members had to vote, and a majority of them had to vote on favour.

Now: the band calls a vote and it takes a simple majority of those that vote to pass.

To me that looks like it makes it easier to slip things by your band members by lowering the thresholds. One day we will hear about band members coming home from gathering and working traplines to find out the chief has leased out the land.

Hartguy-what is your take on all the failed audits the federal government had on Spence since 2005?? I wonder why we are paying for audits if the Feds don’t take any action on the qualifications being noted?

Ammonra, thank you for mentioning our Prime Minister Stephen Harper. You state that he lives very well. I’m sure that he does and I would expect him to, after all he is the elected Prime Minister and leader of our country! He is a very well educated man who has put forth a great deal of effort to achieve the position that he now holds. Unfortunately others make do with less, and in some cases with much less. For some, it is in spite of their efforts. For other it is because of their lack of effort.

As I am sure you are aware, for 2012-13 the salaries of Members of Parliament have been frozen at the 2009-10 level. Further, according to a Globe and Mail Article from October 19, 2012, “Prime Minister Stephen Harper stands to lose well over $1-million in retirement benefits extended to prime ministers under pension reforms passed unanimously by the House of Commons. Having approved policies earlier this year that will make millions of Canadians wait until they are 67 before collecting Old Age Security, Mr. Harper personally approved changes in his government’s second budget bill that scale back and delay benefits to one person: the Prime Minister.”

For your convenience, I have attached the following link to the article, just in case you want to review it:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-takes-a-pension-hit-on-new-bill/article4625835/

Now some may feel that this measure is not enough. I prefer to give credit where credit is due and I am glad to see that some reform is happening. Some is certainly better than no reform at all. Wouldn’t you agree? We certainly need some reform of the Indian Act and other issues affecting our Native population!

To assist you with your consideration of our Prime Minister’s compensation, I also would like point out that for 2012-13, the salaries of Members of Parliament have been frozen at the 2009-10 level. For 2012-13, our Prime Minister’s total salary is $315,462.00. Thomas Mulcair, the Leader of the Official Opposition will receive $233,247.00

Some may think that this compensation is excessive, but I suggest that as the Leader of our Nation, the duties, obligations and responsibilities of the position certainly warrant the annual compensation. While Mr. Harper makes more than I do and perhaps more than you do, I suspect that he works harder than you and I do. In fact, I think that he probably works harder than you and I do collectively!

It might also be appropriate to compare some of the salaries paid within our province and region. In 2010/11, UBC President Stephen Toope made $579,332; ICBC CEA Jon Schubert took home $522,178. Northern Health CEO and President Catherine Ulrich took home $361,950.00. UNBC President and Chancellor George Iwama was paid a total of $320,116. CNC President and CEO John Bowman was paid $196,516.00.

When I look at these figures and given his position, I’m not so sure that our Prime Minister’s salary is out of line. But we are all entitled to our own opinion!

Now let’s get back to Chief Spence. Even if I had evidence of wrongdoing by her, it is painfully obvious to anyone with common sense that making a complaint to the RCMP would at best be a futile exercise in frustration. We have far too many examples of First Nation’s individual’s contempt for the law, while the RCMP fail to uphold the law for reasons that are unknown to me. So much for the Canadian attitude of respect and so much for all Canadians should be judged by the same standard, the standard of the law and the charter as you mentioned.

Jim13135, regarding your question, may I suggest that it might just be a case of “See no evil, Speak no evil, Hear no evil!
Maybe, maybe not, but it’s late and I have to get up early for work. I’ll give consideration to your question and hopefully will be able to offer my “take” tomorrow. Have a great night!

Oops, just wanted to add in an attempt to lighten the mood a little bit, wouldn’t it be fun if we could all get together, wearing our online names, perhaps at a coffee shop so that we could discuss and debate in person???? How much fun would that be? G’nite all!

Interesting information Hart Guy, but of little relevance to my questions. You completely ignored my question about whether Harper’s large income while other Canadians live in poverty should have the same rationale applied to it that you applied to Ms. Spence. Why would you justify the income of a Prime Minister you support but criticize a Band Chief you do not. Both are elected by their respective communities, so why the difference? She is the elected Chief of Attawapiskat and he is the elected Chief of federal Canada. Really, apart from the size of the respective communities, what is the difference?

To make it clear, I do not believe the Prime Minister’s income is out of line, neither do I claim Chief Spence’s income is. I asked you why the difference in attitude when both have constituents living in poverty, and I would remind you that was the point you stressed to criticize her.

Perhaps next time I’m in PG, Hart Guy, but that will be some time. I was just up there for the Martin funerals and won’t be there again likely til next April. Just so you know, I don’t take these differences personally. To me it’s all part and parcel of democracy.

jim 13135, what is wrong with FN’s voting the same way as every province, city, regional district, county, etc votes?

If your worried about the process being hi-jacked, you should support FN’s following a similar process along with the accounting and disclosure that goes with it. Streamling a outdated process is far from being out of line.

Jim, I agree totally that the Indian affairs auditors were inefectual. This is another example of the need to streamline the reporting and responsibilities of all parties. The Indian act is screwed in so many ways.

Dow-what is wrong with voting the same way as a municipality?

Nothing I guess if things are done above board. A big IF. :-)

….there are none so blind as those that will not see….

All this over a misunderstood quote,she said “I’ll diet for my people”, doesn’t appear to be working tho, but we all know how New Years resolutions go …….

After the recent strong condemnation of human rights of Canada in world bodies like UN, the first nation people of Canada (e.g. AFN) need to use the opportunity and momentum to go international and seek representation in the UN (like Palestine) and organization of non-aligned movement. How many international trips the past chiefs of AFN have taken so far? Specially now that Harper gov has created so many enemies abroad for Canada. The symbolism of a chief accompanied by people in traditional feathered custom in different world capitals will attract lots of publicity and attention.

They should try opening diplomatic offices in at least one country in each region of south America, Middle East, Asia and Europe and start networking and raising the poverty, lack of education, death of their languages and terrible situation of first nations in Canada.

The bias of media in Canada is aligned with the interests of Harper government and big companies and the institutions in Canada is full of discrimination. The above charicator is just an indicator of the Canadian charicator media itself.

Don’t like poverty get a job,lack of education guess what stay in school,really not rocket science.The true natives should stop voting in these 1/4 breeds to represent and govern them.They reap the rewards while leaving the rest in squalor.

Apart from the first nation people, all of us in Canada are immigrants and those early European settlers in Canada would not have survived the winter and cold weather if it was not for the kindness of first nation people in Canada.

We are living on their land and our companies are exploiting their natural resources, but our greedy predecessors and governments have been rubbing these people of their rights and forcing our culture on them for several decades by forcefully separating their children from parents and sending them to residential schools, punishing them for speaking their languages, rubbing them of votes in elections up until 50 years ego. Chief Terry Nelson in his foreign trip even compared the situation in reservations to German concentration camps.

It is time for our politicians to acknowledge these past wrong doings and apologize them and restore their rights and respect the treaties signed with them. The reality is that in 50 years, in provinces like Manitoba first nation people will become a large majority.

And here is a piece of journalism from the StarPhoenix in SK:

“The audit covered the period from March 2005 to Nov. 31, 2011. Spence was elected chief on Aug. 27, 2010, and was thus chief for only a little more than a year of the six years covered by the report. During that time there is an obvious upturn in the band’s financial accountability.”

“Instead of being the cause of the woes of Attawapiskat, it appears that Spence was responsible for turning things around. This was missed by reporting that was too anxious to assign blame.”

Read more: http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Idle+More+underlines+need+change+attitude/7804870/story.html

Univ, FN are as much to blame for their plight as the government. Take off the PC blinders and have a look at reality.
Spence wanted a meeting with Harper, she got one. She now won’t go because the GG won’t be in the same room. Chiefs are boycotting because the meeting is in Harpers office not theirs. They now want the meeting boycotted by all chiefs due to these petty issues. HUH??? If they were serious, is this approach necessary.

The threat of blocking roads and rail is now their goal. We are dealing with a bunch of self entitled baffons. Everyone wants a fair future for the FN’s and the rest ROC. Dealing with corrupt scaterbrained blackmailers ain’t gonna help their cause.

How amazing is it that a character such as Spence who comes from such a situation, be the one who kicks this beehive.

In doing this and having the media stir up the emotions of so many people is likely to cause the realization that the federal and native relationship has really been an impossible lie for a long time.

These lies that were formed from decades of political avoidance by the federal government and the lies that led to the expectations that exist today are going to be painfully difficult to sort out.

There is no nice way to explain the historical basis for where all the problems started. The solutions to our current day quagmire of Canadian governance of native peoples will not be found by the arguing of history but rather where do we (as in both native people as well as non native people) go from here?

It is painfully obvious to most that know anything about this that we can not proceed with the current Indian act and we cannot proceed by lying to each other or having completely impossible demands.

The truths of the current situation needs to be brought to the forefront and both sides need to be truthful and realistic as to how we move forward as ONE COUNTRY. The first lie is that we are a country called Canada and we have hundreds of very different small populations believing they are autonomous self governing nations with self determined rights over control and development of practically everything within “their traditional territorial borders” (which they believe to be at least every square inch of Canada). That is absolutely impossible and yet many believe that to be possible (or play along with this notion of appeasement) and an ever growing number of native people believe they are entitled to exactly that. Native leaders want the benefits of the powers to do everything and yet most who have tried to manage their small groups have experienced what is actually an impossible task. It is not realistic to attempt to create hundreds of micro governments that are empowered to do so much and no wonder they are usually viewed and criticised most as a disaster by their own people. Native people as individuals need to look at the transitions that have occurred from long past roles of tribal leaders to that of todays realities. Canada needs to deal with native people as individuals rather than self serving politically led native government leaders who act as though they are prime ministers of their lands and peoples while being essentially non accountable to most things. This is a hopeless structure and it has nothing to do with race.

Then combine that impossible situation caused by that lie with those expectations to the realities of the Indian act whereby Canada appointed itself as the care and needs provider and natives are designated as dependents of the state. It is Canada that designated itself and native people like a parent to child relationship through the treaties as well as through the Indian act.

The core problem of the Indian act is similar to a situation when government is supposed to act as parents and yet avoids the contentious issues of being responsible in order to avoid confrontations with their “dependent” children. It happens to many families and they survive and the children usually come around ONCE they go on their own and learn the ropes of responsible choices while living under the laws and systems as set out by the governments of this country. The obvious difference is that a parent child scenario is usually less than a 20 yr period whereas government/natives peoples are a perpetual and ever increasingly complicated relationship.
It is impossible to expect this to work and it is obvious that it would be an escalating problem for everyone to deal with the longer it goes. To anyone who was a child or anyone who is a parent the infamous words were; “as long as you live in this house then you will live by the rules of this house [as made by the parents]”. The parent-child relationship cannot be a democratic one if peace and order is to be maintained while the family leader ensures the WHOLE FAMILY sustains itself. What is not apparent to most and this includes our judges who have made several critical mistakes is that just because treaties were made doesn’t mean that the parties to those treaties were made equal as to the ongoing decisions of governing all matters within this ONE COUNTRY.

For lack of a better analogy is to say that the parents have lied to the children to the point where the children believe they are of equal authority (or in some cases THE ONLY authority) over all matters even though they do not have any accountability towards the managing and sustaining of the whole family. It is time for Canada to set its children free and destroy the Indian act and its racist connotations and it is time to set the parents free of being responsible and answering to the most over paid and unaccountable vocal organisers of the spoiled brat movement. We are all Canadians and every native person deserves every right, liberty and freedom that will come from living as Canadians first.