Albert Koehler will be the only one getting our vote next election

Tailing ponds in the Alberta “oil sands” not a good place to get the petroleum by- product needed to make asphalt? Free for the taking plus transportation cost?

“Councillor Dave Wilbur points out that comparable communities pay considerably less for asphalt – generally, he says, about 17-percent less. “I know from looking at the Kelowna operation – on contracts that were smaller – they got their product for 30-percent less than we could get it for here.”

Dave. Kelowna is surrounded by other towns a relatively short distance away making for a infrastructure base a lot larger than PG. Larger the volume cheaper the cost.

Maybe the city can buy asphalt cheaper off of eBay. Everything is cheaper in the U.S. Shipping and handling maybe a problem though.

The quality of paving does not seem to be anywhere near what it used to be. Parts of Domano Blvd that were paved in 2011 already have potholes!

“Stolz says he’s not certain there will be any solutions in time for the start of the upcoming paving season in March”

He’s been on Council for over 4 years. This has been a problem for more than 4 years. The solutions mentioned have all been out there over all opr much of that time.

Why are these people sitting on their asses? It is totally frustrating.

The piggybacking onto Highways contracts is done with WSDOT and some of the cities in Washington state and the savings are significant. PG is not the only one with the problem and I am sure there are others who work that way.

Why is it taking so long to sort this out? The amount of time wasted to start and stop and start and stop must be horrendous!!!!

I could not find a reference to the Bellingham case, but here is another one. Obviously it is not uncommon.

Fountain Hills to ‘piggyback’ on roadwork contracts to save money – from a Phoenix suburban community Fountain Hills will “piggyback” on state, county and city contracts for $396,000 worth of roadwork in the Sunridge Canyon-North Heights area.

According to the town’s 2010-11 budget, $515,000 in Fountain Hills’ capital-projects fund had been allocated for road-maintenance projects

Through piggybacking, which means using existing municipal contracts, the town was able to save $119,000 on this maintenance.

That is a 23% saving. Not bad.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/20110413fountain-hills-roadwork-contracts.html?nclick_check=1

Gus for Mayor!!

The issues with the roads around town is it’s not just the surface (asphalt). The problem lies in the intermediate-base, the sub-base or even further down, in the sub-grade. Resurfacing is just a lipstick fix, but to do the proper repair would cost the tax payers alot more dough for yet another short, yes longer, fix. A large portion of the roads in town are built on clay which is a horrible sub-grade material. The Boundary Rd. Connector will be a great test to a well built road. Some say it’s over engineered. I for one think there is no such thing. The bottom line is how much as tax payers do we want to fork out for a virtually impossible, ‘perfect road’.

My comments are not with the roads that have stood the test of time, they are out there, chances are they are built on gravel. Clay will be, and will always be the problem with the roads around here, so get use to it.

I’m sure the fact that they send out 2 trucks and several over paid city employees to patch a few holes has nothing to do with the spiraling costs of our road maintenance.

Piggybacking is the best solution with the city getting into the business the absolute worst. When have they ever shown that they can do something in an efficient manner(snow removal,lawn mowing,etc,etc) Any savings can quickly disappear when the CUPE agreements are factored in.

If costs are 30% more than Kelowna don’t award the damn contract, bring which ever one of the duopoly of companies is potential winner and ask them to explain the difference in price. If they cannot give a satisfactory explanation re-tender the contract and maybe open a city owned pit where out of town companies could set up a batch plant.

Another option is to only do the major paving work every second or third year. The bigger contracts would make it more feasible for out of town companies to bid and economics of scale would drive down the unit costs.

There are plenty of people in the administration to share some of the blame on this from the street department head. the bean counters and ultimately the (bad) acting city manager both former and present.

“”Stolz says he’s not certain there will be any solutions in time for the start of the upcoming paving season in March”

The attached link make reference to a staff report from LAST JUNE!!! that says we are paying 30% more than Kelowna…..and this dolt(z) is the head of the finance committee:(

blog/view/24706/31/council+agrees+to+scoop+$1.9+million+from+local+improvement+reserve+for+roads?id=&st=1035

Skakun raised the matter in 2011 …. and I think there was a report after that which basically nixed the idea of a city-owned plant.

It is a perennial issue which is wasting too much time. Find a way and do it.

Working with others in the Central Interior, whether communities or regional district (which likely has virtually no paving jobs) or province, may bear some fruit.

“Another option is to only do the major paving work every second or third year. The bigger contracts would make it more feasible for out of town companies to bid and economics of scale would drive down the unit costs.”

That may be worth pursuing, but on the face of it, it appears that there would be low work and high work cycles which the industry may not be able to accommodate too well. The total work over a large region remains the same.

Patching is a waste of time and money. Classical example is Domano Blvd. The new pavement put down last year is starting to crack up. The problem being that there is water under the ground which is pushing the pavement up when it freezes putting a massive crack on top so that more water can work it’s way under the pavement only to do more damage when it freezes again. I’m not a road engineer and I can figure that out, why can’t anyone at city hall figure that out? The longer we wait to repair our roads the worse the situation will become, it’s only common sense, does anyone at city hall have any common sense?

In about two years we want to show case our City to the nation during the Canada Winter Games, the way I see it we got two years to get our roads repaired so that we are not the laughing stock of Canada and perhaps the world!

With the amount of pavement we need to do in Prince George we can easily have our own asphalt plant. Get the gravel out from confluence of the Nechako – Fraser Rivers, find a grinder some where, maybe Richie Bros could get us a deal, grind up the gravel get the oil by the tanker and lets get this show on the road.

It would take a MAJOR capitol investment for the city to get into the paving business. The asphalt plant is only one piece of the puzzle. If you add in the paving machines, packers etc it will take a pretty good chunk of change….to use a few weeks a year.

If Columbia and Pittman are padding the quotes because they know they can get away with it because of limited competition having bigger contracts that would perk the interest of out of towners will get them to sharpen their pencils if nothing else. Alternating the paving years between PG, Kamloops and Kelowna would also help increase the number of companies competing for the work.

7 year old paving machine…..$160,000.00

Likely well used…with a new coat of paint:)

Maybe if we could get a portable asphalt plant and move it to strategic locations for the work to be done. We could cut down on trucking costs and have a quicker turn around. We can use one paving machine and couple of packers, qualify some city staff to operate 24 hours a day seven days a week, once we are caught up save the equipment for maintenance and stay on top of it all. The initial cost will be significant but in the long run we will be saving money. Columbia and Pittman are in for profit, we the citizens of Prince George are in it for road survival.

Well let’s get a better one, $160,000 is only three of those battery power cars plugged in at city hall. If we can spend 80 million for a police station, should be able to find some cash for paving equipment.

So you want to give the people that made those decisions responsibility for setting up and running a city owned paving division…talk about throwing good money after bad:)

BTW one paving machine is not enough, a backup is mandatory even if it is never used.

“does anyone at city hall have any common sense?”

I think that is a rhetorical question as we are starting to leanr more and more with each passing day when Councillors open their mouths.

“Alternating the paving years between PG, Kamloops and Kelowna would also help increase the number of companies competing for the work.”

We could call it “the travelling road show” … ;-)

“we could get a portable asphalt plant and move it to strategic locations for the work to be done”

Yeah … like Malaspina …. share the wealth of air emissions around town …. that will make us forget all about pulp and sawmill air emissions …. LOL

“If we can spend 80 million for a police station, should be able to find some cash for paving equipment.”

We could park the paving machines in the glass lobby of the new station and people can come by to look at where the city is spending our money while they eat their bagged lunches.

Whatever happened to that young girl’s idea of using plastic for a paving adhesive? Seems to me that the test of it was conveniently put on hold and then forgotten about.
I really think all alternatives should at least be given a decent test. Who knows, one of these trials could end up changing the whole game.

Trial section was done on Cranbrook hill if memory serves but unfortunately did not work that well.

Let me guess, not one of you have a clue what it take to operate an asphalt plant.

Its wonderful to have a bunch of know it alls running off at the lip about something they dont have a clue about, kinda reminds me of our city council.

Give: “Whatever happened to that young girl’s idea of using plastic for a paving adhesive? Seems to me that the test of it was conveniently put on hold and then forgotten about.”

As I recall, the material didn’t hold up and the test failed. Unless someone can correct my memory?

Why did the city allow its sewer infrastructure to be built with the man holes right where the tires drive on all the roads. That causes unnecessary wear IMO. Why not have the man holes come up the middle of the roadway so the tires aren’t banging the hell out of the road?

I support the idea of a city owned paving and asphalt equipment. Might cost more initially, but with a 30% plus savings would quickly pay for itself.

Well from what we hear from City Hall we need to invest at least 7 million dollars a year in our roads. We are probably three or four years behind, that translates to anywhere between 21 to 28 million dollars. If we can save 30% by making our own asphalt, we could easily pay for the equipment and labour and almost get a year of road maintenance free.

It is in no way certain that the city would realize the 30% saving were they to get into the paving business without knowing the exact reason it is cheaper down south.IMO they would be hard pressed to match current pricing. PLUS capitol costs to get started.

The Kelowna company could be negotiating a price for material not just for the work that they do in the Kelowna but also other work they do in the area that season(Penticton, Vernon, Armstrong, etc) lowering per unit costs for all. Columbia and Pittman should be challenged to do the same.

If this is the case there is no way the city could copy that unless they go whole hog and win paving contracts in say Vanderhoof and Quesnel.

The city puts out their paving contracts to tender each and every year, it is not restricted to only the companies in PG, any company can bid on it if they meet the requirements.

The most important part of a paving plant is the plant manager himself, there is a skill involved which is not just a simple press a button and go. Do you think that the city has an employee currently with the skills to run a plant? Do you think people with the skills that are currently employed are going to jump ship for 2 or 3 months work a year?

2nd, the raise in cost is in the asphalt itself, not the total cost of the contracts. There are many more costs involved to get the roads paved.

One last thing for you all to think about, when was the last time the city was able to run ANY project with more cost effectiveness than private enterprises? They cant control a snow removal budget, now they going to go into the asphalt business? Really?

I believe asphalt is made using California heavy crude. Even the bitumen from the tar sands is not that good.

“Whatever happened to that young girl’s idea of using plastic for a paving adhesive?”

Plastics have been used as an aggregate in specialty mixes of asphalt for some time. It was nothing new.

In fact, it is the same as the addition of wood as an aggregate in concrete as “invented” at UNBC. That also has been done for some time previously and is nothing new.

It is one of the problems associated with living in an isolated community.

The city of PG in the asphalt business……Heaven help us.

Forget the planned PAC, forget the games, sell those dead city properties and buy an asphalt plant. Pay someone (who will be on the job site) who knows about asphalt, to hire and fire and make it work. To hell with the union. There is always a legal way around hiring union workers — so find it.

As I wrote, asphalt which uses plastics as additives is nothing new.

Here is a website to a producer of polymer modified asphalt in Virginia
http://www.advancedasphalt.com/modasphalt.html

Novophalt is the trade name for the modifier used. Novophalt is produced by adding about 4 to 6% (by weight of binder) low density polyethylene (LDPE) to asphalt cement in a high shear mixer. Recycled polyolefins can be used in the process. MILK JUGS typically contain this type of plastic, as do PLASTIC TRASH BAGS and SANDWICH BAGS. Post-consumer and post-industrial RECYLCED POLYETHYLENE can both be used. In 1990, about 92% of the resin used by Novophalt was recycled material.

MILK JUGS, PLASTIC TRASH BAGS, RECYLCED POLYETHYLENE …. but we do not recycle …. ;-)

Modified polymer asphalt is more expensive but lasts 20 to 30% longer.

I believe adding plastics does not decrease the amount of bitumen required.

“I support the idea of a city owned paving and asphalt equipment. Might cost more initially, but with a 30% plus savings would quickly pay for itself.”

I have not heard anyone with any technical knowledge say there would be a 30% saving. That figure is the difference in cost between asphalt here and Kelowna. Kelowna uses local contractors. They do not have a city owned/operated plant.

First off our roads wouldn’t be in this bad shape if our mayors and councillors had actually kept up with budget needed for the roads, but over the years the money went to things not really needed, like the new civic centre. The two rivers art gallery, trips to china, the millions of studies, raises for councillors, hiring friends as assistants etc.

This has been happening long before green got to show her incompetence..her being over her head has just made matters worse. If you need 7 million to fix the roads and only budget 3 million it will come to a crunch..or potholes the size of a green car

We have a made in Prince George problem, we need a made in Prince George solution. Forget what the bigger boys are doing in Vancouver, Kelowna areas,we all know that there is a greater population base in that part of the province, with more cities in close proximity. The private paving companies are in it for profit, what their profit margin is I don’t know, even if it is 10%, which I doubt, if we had our own paving operation, it would pay for itself eventually. Let’s not try to figure out why we can’t do something, let’s figure out how we can do it. Necessity is the mother of invention, lets be a leader not a follower.

Cheetos,

You assume that the City of PG could run a paving operation as efficiently as a private company. That is a LARGE assumption.