Council Of The Day Unable To Look Past Next Weekend
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 @ 3:45 AM
When City Councils make decisions that will affect what takes place in an area well into the future, one wonders just how the group came to the decision.
We already have a problem with the fact that we have allowed development to occur on the periphery of the city to a point that servicing the areas in not only costly but difficult.
So when the Council of the day approved the re-zoning of the old Haldi Rd School, which by the way was rural 2 zoning up until last night, did they stop to think that it would only be a matter of time before the land owners, (justifiably so) come to the city and insist that they be treated in the same manner as the other residents of the city in that they should also receive, sewer, water, decent roads and other amenities given the size of their tax load?
We knew several years ago that the cost of bringing water into the Haldi Rd area was cost prohibitive; the same applies for sewer and the matter of the roads, which will see increased heavy traffic as a result of trucking in the water needed for the operation each day. We also know that because of the soils it will be very expensive to reconstruct the roads in the area.
But then did this council give that consideration? Of course not. So when they have gone and left the council table (and I might add with the record of the present group and Mayor that is more than a distinct possibility) who will be left to pick up the pieces?
Going back a few decades, I recall the council of the day turning down an application by Cadillac Fairview to build a massive downtown shopping complex, not unlike a small version of the Edmonton Mall, complete with a performing Arts center, movie theatres, visiting areas ,major big box retailers and plenty of small mum and pop shops. A new council, promoted by Woodward’s (and a goodly portion of the campaign expenses were paid by Woodward’s) replaced the old council. Sound familiar? They then gave the heave ho to Cadillac , Woodward’s vacant lot, (where the Parkwood sits today) did not build a new shopping center for the next ten years in spite of receiving great tax breaks by way of free property and look at what we have today.
The downtown never recovered and in spite of all the attention that has been thrown at it, won’t, until such time as we can find a reason to have people go there. The council of the day has been throwing money at the downtown with reckless abandon and the result is obvious.
So we are about to repeat the process by allowing these special needs homes to be located outside of the main section of the city, where access to services is not readily at hand and we will now replace it with a new system in which, the general taxpayers will be called upon to provide yet more money to provide the services needed.
What we need is recall legislation for Municipal government. It would put municipal politicans on guard that the people, those who pay the taxes, have the final say, not just at elecetion time, but the ability to mark the score card and hold them accountable throughout their entire term of office.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
If we have recall at the provincial level and the municipal charter is a provincial act, then why can’t the provincial recall legislation be used to recall municipal politicians? In this day and age it should be possible to hold an out of control city council to account through the ballot between elections.
Maybe this should be an election issue for the ndp to consider… that is recall for municipal politicians, as well as eliminating the Alternate Approval Process. We need to have the provincial government on board if we are ever to get control of our municipal governments.
to answer your question…..
Councils have to support their campain supporters.
There is always a reason for councils decision. you just have to look a little deeper and you will find all your answers.
Eagleone.. that is recall for municipal politicians.
I agree and include Regional District Reps.
Jerry Peterson the area ‘F’ rep has pulled a fast one on the property owners of Cluculz Lake and Bobtail Lake by including them in the area ‘F’ referendum vote for the Vanderhoof Pool. (I do not put the blame on the folks and businesses of Vanderhoof)Petersen sits on the Pool committee and gives the go ahead for Money to come from us.
This mayor and council couldn’t locate their own buttocks with a map and flashlight, but they sure can follow the money.
I recently read about a social cognition phenomenon known as the Dunning-Kreuger Affect, which states that incompetent people will always overestimate their own performance relative to how they others would perform on a given task. Take, for example, the fact that the councilor in charge of budget oversight, Cameron Stolz, appears to be over his spending budget for the third straight year. Need I say more?
In reference to the Haldi Road situation, how much of our tax money do you think this mayor and council is prepared to waste in their vain attempt to prove that they know what they’re doing when it is baldly apparent to the rest of us that they haven’t got a freaking clue?
Why not consider another shuttered school, the Fort George Traditional school, instead? Although there may be some issues with the building itself, it certainly would not be burdened with the problems of trucking in water, the sewage issue, the problem of increased traffic on roads unintended for such, or the principle issue of the impact on a rural neighbourhood and the forcible intrusion into said neighbourhood against the will of residents who are prepared to go to court to fight this.
And before anyone pipes up with the usual bleating about whose back yard Ft. George school sits in, it’s mine; I live less than three blocks away.
I think most people are aware of why Council voted for the changes to the OCP. It was obvious that they supported the proponent approx. 6/8 people to the detriment of the citizens in the area.
Council for all intents and purposes gave short shrift to the case put forward by the opponents, and if anything were feeling somewhat aggrieved that they had to stay late at the meeting to vote.
We know that the Provincial Government shut down the Nechako Treatment Center attached to the hospital a few years ago. This facility provided treatment for both men and women, ie; an 18 bed facility and a 28 day rehabilitation program, with various and sundry follow up programs to help people.
So I ask you. Where were all the Councillors when the Provincial Government closed this facility. If they are so concerned about helping these women, why were they not front and centre, to keep this facility open.
The answer is simple. They were either unaware of the facilitys closing, or they did not care, or they were otherwise engaged.
It appears there is a contest between PG city council and the provincial Liberals as to who can look most inept.
Municipal recall is no doubt the only solution to be rid of the present council. It’s been a tough few years for the taxpayer with council buying downtown property, old hotels, air rights, etc.
How can council totally ignore the concerns of the citizens, ignore the logistics of proper services for the Haldi residents, but be totally committed and beholden to their campaign contributors? Sleeping at night must be tough.
Certainly the present mayor and council have never looked up the word democracy.
Northern Supportive Recovery Centre for Women spokesperson Dr. Michele Sutter, (according to the Citizen paper) confirmed the plan has changed since the public meeting in January and that the centre is now aiming to be populated with women in the 35 to 60 years of age range who can afford to pay their own way.
She goes on the say that the majority of beds will be a private pay system, but certainly there will be a few beds available for a public pay. She added that it is not just Prince George that the facility will draw from. **I anticipate that we will get applications from all over the Province, as there is a desperate need throughout the Province, but we hope that this will serve northerners well**
So there you have it. The people of Haldi Road will have their life style disrupted to accommodate people from all over BC coming to this facility for treatment. The facililty could not survive financially on just people from Prince George, because there are not sufficient people with a problem to keep this facility going.
So, what we have is a private for profit business, set up in a rural area, to provide service for people, who are in effect sick (which is why their medical program pays for their treatment) from all over the Province.
This is treatment that used to be provided by the Provincial Government through facilities like the Nechako Treatment Center.
Haldi Road residents should take this issue to court, it needs to be brought to the attention of the public, how we are being manipulated.
Brian for mayor!
Council did not take on one responsibility for approving this facility. Water is not our problem. They will truck it in. Sewer is not our problem, it is Northern Healths and they will deal with it when there is contamination. All roads in PG are in need of repair so even though we are going to increase traffic, too bad. We won’t take the initiative to regulate the facility like other cities do, but sign a good neighbour contract and it will be ok.Property values won’t be affected.Tell that to the guy who phoned BC assessment and his property value dropped over the phone by $50,000. Only 2 people from the Haldi rd area supported the centre and not in a land use way but PG needs this women’s recovery centre. Haldi road was abandoned by their council. No discussion on what the lawyer advised. Skakun was the only one who saw the “Here we go again.”
I have to question who would pay that much money to attend rehab in PG of all places? If I have that much money for rehab, I’m going somewhere nice. Not some old school in PG.
A few more heavy handed blunders like this one and it may affect the willingness of a disenchanted citizenry to volunteer en masse for the upcoming games in 2015…How much negativity can one create and get away with?
Just a thought.
The OCP decision was a political decision! The clear evidence of this was when Councilor Koehler stated he could not make a decision based on the technical aspect of the OCP alone. This, in spite of the fact that our ‘wonderful’ mayor said time and time again this would have to be a technical decision based solely on land use – yeah right!
But given the giant egoes of the chosen eight, and the Wednesday, Feb 27 Free Press front page and accompanying articles, and then some other Free Press tidbits in the Friday, March 1st FP, they probably took their high road and decided they were above such ‘trash articles’. But the people spoke! And, I suspect the people are right! So with this, I think it is safe to say the OCP decision was truly a political decision, far removed from a technical any technical aspects. And for the moment, and only for the moment, let us set aside the Wood Innovation Centre dust-up involving a major player of the Haldi property.
When do you suppose some of these Council members will say: ‘Paid in full?’
All of this clearly confirms the majority of City Councillors place absolutely no value on its residents – those who contribute annually by paying taxes so they can continue with their ignorant behaviours and activities.
We can all be thankful we have one Councilor who has his feet on the ground – Thank you Brian for your untiring efforts in trying to make things right!
It is painfully obvious to me after reading the price associated with using this treatment center that it is going to be a high end treatment center for people who can afford this ridiculous price of 6500/mnth. Therefore they wanted a nice rural setting for thier glossy brochures which will be distributed all over the lower mainland/island. How on earth can anyone justify 6500/mth for an addiction center? This is not going to benefit the people the proponents have been trying to sell us on. So for all you people who think the haldi area is being selfish, maybe you should look closer at the real motives behind the proponents reasons for using haldi.
There are some excellent studies of whether property values are affected by âspecial needs housingâ projects including substance abuse treatment centres which require âshort term residencyâ (up to a year in some cases) as part of the program.
It is totally dependent on how well the facility fits into the neighbourhood economic and social structure. A long term study from New York City is one of the more thorough studies. They found that typically the neighbourhood these facilities were built were built on properties which had lower values than the neighbourhoods. In other words, they were run down buildings ready for redevelopment. Initially the value of the properties within 500 to 1000 feet dropped slightly. After some time of operation the value went back up and matched the rate of value increase of comparative neighbourhoods without such developments.
Basically it reflects the intuitive thinking of people who have some experience with city planning and real estate.
Thus, for instance, locate such a facility in St. Denis Heights near the location of the highest assessed house in the City and it will bring down the value of the houses in the neighbourhood.
Locate such a facility close to the southern end of Victoria Street and it may actually increase the value of the surrounding properties.
I do not think this is rocket science.
As it says in the OCP, what is required are siting criteria for such facilities. The City has none. Therefore, the Council and Staff had inadequate data on which to properly make the decision they were asked to make. THAT is the key problem, in my view. And the take away that is most important form this is that they all should have known that.
Councillor Hall may have been the only one who was on that track of thinking, but he was unable to articulate it properly, in my view.
In fact, the decision was not based on LAND USE. It was based on the need for a facility such as that in the community. It shows how inadequately the planning staff is and the Council is in being able to differentiate between the two.
It was not a win-win situation, when the win-win solution was readily available to anyone with such experience. In fact, the OCP has all the right words in it. It is just that it is written in “code” which those who are not ready for honest participatory community planning are ready for.
These are, for example, words from the OCP dealing with engaging the public during OCP processes:
⢠Engagement: engage the public and stakeholders broadly and AUTHENTICALLY in decisions, providing for open and transparent dialogue;
AUTHENTICALLY â¦. An interesting word which conjures up a mindset which the current council obviously does not have. Their mindset is in the legalese of newspaper notice and site signs notice. They do not even realize how far removed they are from todayâs world. They need to get out more often.
Councils have to support their campain supporters.
There is always a reason for councils decision. you just have to look a little deeper and you will find all your answers.
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Thats it in a nut shell. So what would one do for a gift of $80,000.00?
Your editorial leaves one breathless, Ben as one wonders where the next kick will come
Meisner: “What we need is recall legislation for Municipal government. It would put municipal politicans on guard that the people, those who pay the taxes, have the final say, not just at elecetion time, but the ability to mark the score card and hold them accountable throughout their entire term of office. “
I agree with this in theory, but what recall legislation does is take the leadership ability away from council when they only have a three year term to begin with. With certain issues and decisions, the mob is not always right.
Early in the process the proponents pitched the facility as one that would help area women with addiction. This got all the people who saw a need squarely behind them.
Run the ball all the way down the field to within inches of the end zone and we hear….ummm kinda changed the business model and are going after a well heeled client but may have a space or two for your basic run of the mill local crackhead.
Mayor and council fell for this bait and switch exposing them for the rubes they truly are:( No end to the division it has caused in the city and still no place for area residents unless there pockets are full enough.
Well played by Woods/Fehr but was not really a fehr contest ….if the IQ’s of mayor and council were added together they would still not be a candidate for Mensa.
Politcal IQ is measured with totally different criteria. ;-)
The City Council needs to get out of the business of being a “business” and get back to being a municipality (if it ever functioned as one..??).
Then you would see accurate representation and action on behalf of the majority and not just a select few that lined the pockets with campain dollars.
I’m curious about Baldy Hughes and why their funding was put on hold
Prince George Prince George New Hope Society
28-Nov-2012
Community Gaming Grant
Hold
https://www.gaming.gov.bc.ca/gaming/report/DirectAccessWebReport.do
Prince George
British Columbia New Hope Recovery Society
Human and Social Services
Disadvantage Distress Poverty
$100,000.00
All the employees at this Haldi Road business going to be female? After all…..
Thank you once again Ben for your very timely and reality check comments on the shortcomings of our City Council.
I wish to address these comments to all my fellow resident taxpayers who continually bellyache about our property taxes and what we get in return; and secondly to the taxpayers who also bellyache about their taxes yet go on about the need to provide one and all with hard cash for the myriad of social programs that are or will be established in our city; and thirdly to our fellow taxpayers who do not bellyache about their taxes but are soon about to.
The OCP and accompanying rezoning decision made by City Council on Monday evening, March 4th opens up an interesting Pandoraâs Box of expectations by the Haldi residents and most likely by all resident taxpayers in Prince George city.
Since amalgamation in 1975, the south west corner of our city and probably all other amalgamated areas have been waiting for the services promised in the amalgamation process. We were promised City Water, we were promised City Sewer, improved road services and maintenance. We received the fire hall at the top of the hill, and perhaps good snowplowing. The annual road grading is used as a training area for new grader operators! I guess they have to train somewhere.
With a treatment centre that will affect lifestyles, we are again calling for what is owed us: City Water, City Sewer, widened roads, and sidewalks along Haldi, Bunce, Lattman, Hilltop and Leslie Roads. Also, the city needs to purchase the portions of Leslie and Sabrina Roads that are still held privately but needs to be rebuilt to main artery standards and paved (of course). If we look at the bill for installing the 20 lights on the highway between Westgate and the Fire Hall for $600,000, it should be reasonable to estimate to costs of these improvements to be in the area of 3 to 4 million bucks, if not a lot more! Now, keep in mind the city received a grand total of $2750 for the application fee in May or June of 2011 but there is no record of any fees paid for this second application â perhaps due to the screw-up with the first one.
And then, let us not forget the potential of paying out big taxpayer bucks for the Treatment Centre in order they not to go broke. But then they are aiming at treating only well healed clients.
But then, the proponents and city council tells us there is no problem here, we owe this to the community! And so on, and on â¦.
Hold on to your pocket books, people!
Haldi residents have had many concerns (not a land issue) Could also be why NSRW changed their program. Maybe
The application put in 2011/2012 for government grants expires each fiscal year. Who applied for this grant at Baldy Hughes? Was this grant put on hold because of the applicant (who no longer was allowed {new law} to be a paid worker)? Where is Marshall Smith? In some peoples eyes you may have done alotta good but at the same time messed up alotta funding. Let’s hope they got back on track.
How does it happen that the much cherished voters (at election time!) who are also the taxpayers who provide most of the funding for the whole giant City machine turn into a “mob” when they object to promises not being kept and when they are being disrespected as well?
Great editoriaL, Ben!
A sign should be placed at each of the four entrances to the city saying
Welcome to Prince George, where the wishes of a majority of residents are ignored/denied(Haldi), where citizens are forced to go to extreme lengths to halt an unwanted project that will incur substantial debt (dike) and where an obviously flimsy community plan is changed to accomodate a select few.
May I suggest that it is not the B and E artists and thugs that are giving this place a bad name.
A quote from a city councillor from March 2012 when proponents of the Coyotes nightclub in the old theatre building at 3rd and Vancouver were denied the right to a public hearing on the issue:
“We are open for business but for me its all about location.”
From Haldi residents: We are all for a recovery centre for women, but for us its all about location.
The haldi Road residence paid for the legal fees and won court case. how many Prince George residents are willing to help pay for this court case up-and-coming as it is to fight City Hall with respect to OCP And rezoning changes?
Brian Skakun given a leave to appeal his conviction. Go Brian Go You have always had my support!!
I would like to make a comment but my comments just disappear,must be something wrong with my computer.
While recall legislation sounds like a good idea, it is just not practical. We need to oust Mayor and council now and force an early municipal election before any more damage OR bad press befalls our city. Short of surrounding City hall and demanding the resignation of the mayor and council for the good of OUR city, IS there anyway to bring about a stop to this tyranny? A public vote of non-confidence?
I sympathize with the Haldi residents but I fear that this is only the tip of the iceberg for what mayor and council will subject us to before the next election in 2014.
Meisner and Skakun would be names I would like to see on the next ballot.
You have to play nice bitter or your posts get deleted.
Would Chief Green accept a buyout? Might be cheaper. Works in other places.
Brian’s not a leader or a saint… he’s a follower… and a grandstander… and a martyr. I’m surprised that so many fall for his antics.
Brian is our voice at council.
Cheers
bitter; check the timing on your power save site. I maybe set to short.
JohnnyB: So what if Brian is a grandstander? The bottom line is that he looks after our case, such as top level (mis)management in our police force, the way city hall spends our money, and reflects and reacts to the ‘voice of the people’. Can you tell us all: What is wrong with that??? Grandstanding, as you have a problem with, is the absolute least of the problems. I too support Brian in his continued efforts to right the wrongs that Council seems so bent at doing. There just has to be something that we simply can not put our fingers on – it is just too bad the next municipal election is nearly ‘a lifetime away’!
JB ….. Brian sits next to the Mayor on one side and Lyn Hall on the other because they got the most votes.
It does not matter too much how they did it, they did.
If people could have forseen the future of how Councillors would handle themselves over the first year, Brian would still have gotten those votes and then some, and Lyn would have been firther down the totem pole, Munoz wouls not have lost her seat, and a bunch of others would not be sitting there, instead there would be a number of other new faces.
I wish someone would do a poll asking “how are they doing so far” and allow people to put a tick next to which 4 Councillors they think are working out the best.
But Gus, can you find four councillors that are worth rating? I know I could not find THAT MANY! I can only find ONE!
There have been suggestions that we should have recall procedures for elected municipal members. Is it a valid thought to pursue such recall legislation? This should cover those elected in all municipal election processes including Regional Districts and School Boards.
gus: “I wish someone would do a poll asking “how are they doing so far” and allow people to put a tick next to which 4 Councillors they think are working out the best.”
I wonder if the average PG resident could even name four councillors, let alone how they’re doing. I’ll bet most couldn’t.
No, many likely could not. And why? Because the majority of council will not speak out on what they believe and on behalf of the citizens of PG. They are not doing their jobs. They are following along like little puppies to the tune that is being played by the mayor and her handlers.
The councillors won’t re-surface until just before the next election, but it will be too late for them. The 250News site is giving people a voice on the issues that concern them, and because of it people who want to be are being enlightened on just what this council is, and in most cases is not, doing satisfactorily, let alone well.
The bs fed by candidates to get electedc last time won’t wash next time.
OD: “No, many likely could not. And why? Because the majority of council will not speak out on what they believe and on behalf of the citizens of PG.”
That, and less than 40% of voters bothered to turn up to vote. Seems that most people just do not care.
Who are the people behind the proposed Haldi Recovery Centre anyway.
People who want to share in the polititians largese!!!!
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