Cluculz Lake Resident To Meet With Lawyer Today
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An emergency meeting Saturday was standing room only at the Cluculz Lake Community Hall
Prince George, BC – One of the organizers of an emergency meeting at Cluculz Lake on Saturday will meet with a lawyer later this morning to discuss lake residents’ desire to legally challenge the results of the recent Vanderhoof pool referendum.
Residents and property owners at Cluculz are upset they’ll be required to pay $100 for every $1000 in assessed improvements on their property for annual operating costs of the proposed $12-million dollar pool – a pool, most say, they’ll never use.
Those who packed the Cluculz Lake Community Hall for the weekend meeting endorsed a plan by residents, Dick Martin and Randy Holubush, to file an appeal with the courts based on concerns some residents were denied the opportunity to vote. The appeal must be filed by March 23rd and, in the interim, Martin says the lawyer will review and assess the strength of their case.
This initial assessment and filing are estimated to cost $3000 and those at Saturday’s meeting were quick to open their wallets to pitch in.
Residents also lined up to sign two petitions on-hand at the meeting: one stating that Cluculz Lake residents should have been exempt from the referendum, and another pledging to boycott Vanderhoof businesses as a way to add pressure to their case locally.
When one person at the meeting suggested it was unfair to target Vanderhoof merchants, Martin pointed out that the Vanderhoof business community is being asked to pitch in $2-million dollars towards the new pool and the boycott may make them ‘think twice’ about supporting it.
While saying no one was obliged to sign the pledge, Martin explained it’s a way to send a message that a lot of people are upset over the referendum. "Over the years, we’ve spent a ton of money in their community and now we’re going to be asked to throw a ton more money into paying for a pool that 90-percent, or 95-percent of the people in this room and their kids and their kids’ kids will never use."
(Photo shows Martin (on left) talking with residents after Saturday’s meeting)
The legal appeal is estimated to cost between $25- and $75-thousand dollars. Martin and Holubosh planned to set up a bank account at the CIBC in Pine Centre Mall yesterday to accept support from residents for the effort. They say they’ll hold another meeting to update, and get direction from, residents at the lake once the legal merits of the case are assessed.
Comments
I agree with Cluculz Lake residents! They should not have to pay for this pool. I hope they win.
I agree with Cluculz Lake residents! They should not have to pay for this pool. I hope they win.
I’ll take the odds of a Randy Holubush victory.
Are they arguing that the vote was illegal or are they just arguing that they don’t want to pay for the pool because they don’t think they’ll use it? Seems to be a bit of both from the story.
If the vote was illegal than I’m all for this action but if they just don’t like the result then I really can’t feel for them. Being able to pick and choose where our taxes are spent would be rather chaotic.
Sorry Cluculz residents, you voted… and the results weren’t what you would have liked. Suck it up.
just like PRINCE GEORGE it does not matter what you want Counsel will tell you what is good for you…THEY donât care just pay more
Is the Green Slime in Vanderhoof too???
I think the majority in Prince George do not use the pool either.
I would think that the major issue would be why this area was ever included in the vote. What is the geographical boundary and who decided where it was to be.
Once it was agreed to, then I agree, the vote results need to stand as they are unless there were arbitrary decisions on who could vote and those decisions were not clearly articulated prior to the vote.
Who was the person responsible for conducting this vote and how was it scrutinized?
According to the Saturday meeting, Jerry Peterson, Regional F rep put the motion forward to include area F in the referendum. (Jerry is also on the pool committee since 2009) and it was seconded by the Vanderhoof mayor. Unlike Fraser Lake , Ft St Jmes and probable other Vanderhoof communities, the Cluculz Lake/ Bobtail Lake taxpayers had absolutly no input on being part of the voting process.
“the Cluculz Lake/ Bobtail Lake taxpayers had absolutly no input on being part of the voting process”
THAT is the issue as far as I can see.
I am unfamuliar with the make-up of area F so did a little bit of research on the ineternet since goping to the library at this time was out of the question … and there I woukd have to get on the internet as well for the most up to date info …. LOL…
So, comparing area F to District of Vanderhoof, the first figure is area F, second Vanderhoof
population37024480
private dwellings16601791
vote for1207575
vote against353472
vote total15601047
percentage votes42.1%23.4%
The percentage votes is based on population no eligible voters. I was lazy and had limited time.
The immediate question then becomes why was there such a large discrepancy in voter turnout? It suggests that the voting timing and process may have been unfair, thus improper.
A quick look at the Regional District website shows that the District of Vanderhoof is in Zone F. Zone F residents will be the people using the pool, therefore they should have their say with a vote. It appears from the vote that the majority of residents want the new pool.
“The immediate question then becomes why was there such a large discrepancy in voter turnout? It suggests that the voting timing and process may have been unfair, thus improper.”
Or perhaps it has to do with the number of people who are only part time residents of the lake and were unable to get up here to vote or perhaps never even knew there was to be a vote?
Either way this will be an interesting story to follow.
Axman,
A non residential elector document was omitted from an information package mailed out to property owners. This was to be signed if seasonal residents had more than one person on title. Several voters were turned away as they did not have this form signed and had no previous knowledge of such a document.
Residents of Bobtail Lake, a number of who live in the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island, were not offered a mail-in ballot. They were expected to drive to Vanderhoof to vote. Only Cluculz Lake Residents could apply for a mail in ballot.
If the referendum was held in August or September, more residents would have been eligible to vote by virtue of having been at the lake for the past 30-days
Thanks for that info cluculzjogger; sounds like someone really wants a pool!
Under this thought process do the other residents have the right to vote on snow removal on the Cluculz lake roads?
the account at CIBC will be called “Pool Referendum Appeal fund”. Deposits can be made at any CIBC branch once the organizers get the account notarized and set up as a trust fund later today.
They will end up paying more for the lawyer than the cost of the pool. What a joke… I would rather give a few bucks to some kids for a pool than to some greedy lawyer!
There were 2 Areas that got to vote 1 being Vanderhoof and 1 being Area F which goes from Bobtail Lake to Plateau Mills on the other side of Vanderhoof. In previous referendums for Library and Rec Centre part of Area F Cluculz Lake Fire protection zone was excluded to have these services paid for with property taxes.
Then when Cluculz lake wanted to have taxes collected for a Fire Improvement only the portion of Cluculz Lake Fire Protection was included so that all Property owners in Area F did not have to pay for something that they would not benefit from. However when it came time for a Pool which we would not benefit from but other Areas would they were excluded from the vote and we were included. Those were Fraser Lake, Ft St James and Areas C and D. These are areas that will use the pool because they are all areas that are Full time residents.
I guess a question to ask is, how bad do the Vanderhoof residents want a pool? Would they themselves be willing to pay more to get it? If they would, then maybe Cluculz Lake and Bobtail Lake could be taken out of the equation and end this whole thing.
I also understand that Vanderhoof residents allowed anyone over the age of 18 at an address to vote. Cluculz lake had one vote per property. If you owned multiple properties you still got only one vote. The package sent to Cluculz lake then required a response so that another could be sent. Purposly convoluting the process. As well, Joint properties required a signed consent from one joint owner so the other vote would be included. I am aware of several voters not counted by this.
Nobody is against Vanderhoof getting a pool. Cluculz lake, however should not be singeled out to pay from out side the Hoof.
I’ll take the odds of a Randy Holubush victory.
This is not about the benefits of a pool or whether or not it should be built, it is also not about a couple hundred bucks added to a tax bill. It is about whether or not democracy was compromised. This referendum has a bad smell to it, and a few questions need to be answered that the regional district has not been able or willing to.
1)Was the area F representative in conflict being on the board of the pool…who’s interest was he representing?
2)Was the date of the referendum manipulated to have better odds in the pool passing…The proponents knew many voters that would be against the proposal would not have as great of an influence on vote being ‘non-residents’ during winter months.
3)Were all voters given a fair opportunity to vote…apparently non residents from Bobtail lake were unable to use mail in voting…seems to me having to drive several hundred km to vote is not democratic.
4)Is it democratic to have 1 area of the whole regional district pay for the pool whearas the other areas are excempt?
These are the real issues and concerns…
tdi: “This is not about the benefits of a pool or whether or not it should be built, it is also not about a couple hundred bucks added to a tax bill. It is about whether or not democracy was compromised.”
So you’re saying this would all still be happening if the referendum failed?
Johnny,If there were any flaws in this referendun which may have tipped the scales for/against, I would hope it would be contested. There should be no cutting corners in democracy period. This is Canada not Iraq.
Vanderhoof should build the pool.. and any opposing area such as Cheap Lake should be omitted from paying higher taxes… however when they show up to use the pool they will be charged a higher rate. This was how the issue was resolved in the Duncan area!
tdi: “Johnny,If there were any flaws in this referendun which may have tipped the scales for/against, I would hope it would be contested.”
But it would be doubtful in this case. Not sure what Iraq has to do with it.
The contention by the many of the Cluculz Lake residents is that they’re not using the pool, so why should they pay for it? I would tell those residents, welcome to the world of taxation.
Johnny, I can not speculate what would happen if the vote went the other way, nor do I have a crystal ball, the point I was making was simply if there were flaws in the democratic process then those need to be addressed. Without democracy we have nothing…FYI, Iraq is known for a flawed democratic process
JB, How many bus loads of kids will come from FSJ and FS to use this pool? Why aren’t they paying as well? Because they said no. Our rep, who is on the pool board offered up Cluculz. Likely the huge increase in assesments in the last 5 years was to much to pass up. We all realize that as property owners, we will pay for facilities we won’t use. Thats how it works. But if you can’t see the inequities in this, you must live in Vanderhoof.
“if there were flaws in the democratic process then those need to be addressed. Without democracy we have nothing.”
Can’t agree more tdiguy
Dear Vanderhoof Pool Committee ⦠why is it Bobtail land owners are expected to pay for your indulgences such as a pool for your community when you have not ensured services for Bobtail Lake cabin owners such as cell/phone coverage to make a call for 911 services – never mind to find out what your pool’s hours will be.
Cabin owners at Bobtail are being asked to help pay for a pool that none will likely ever access. There was no mail in ballot allowed for Bobtail Lake land owners, we were not âallowedâ to cast our vote at the Cluculz polling station and so to cast our vote we were required to drive – for over an hour – on winter highways – just to have our say ⦠and only one say per property (even though there are 2 names on the title).
Several of us go to Vanderhoof instead of Prince George during the summer for supplies. I know I will not be spending one cent of any of my ‘After Tax Dollars’ in Vanderhoof!
Although I agree with the Cluculz lake residents, I don’t agree that you have to go to court over this. Vanderhoof is a small community with some damn fine councillors and mayor.Why don’t you sit down with them and talk it over, I’m sure with the common sense and good judgement you all have, you can iron something out. Everybody’s gotta run to court. Why? Just makes lawyers money, doesn’t help. Talking might just help change a couple laws that are in the way of common sense.
Sadly Grizzly thats how it works. Even if ther was some kind of meeting of the minds, common sense hand shakes are long gone.
Did you not read Mayor Gerry Thiessens comments in th PG Citizen on February 19th..that man is not about common sense…and he seconded the motion that the so called Area F Representative, Jerry Petersen, put forward to offer up all his constituents tax dollars upward of $250 a year, close to $8000 after tax dolars over the lifetime of the loan for the pool and operating costs. I dont think any common sens prevails there. Definitely doesnt make sense for seasonal property owners to.pay while full time residents in neighbouring communities who will get the benefits pay nothing. Their mayors smartly said no thanks to the addiional taxation..something is amiss in Area F..
Makes no sense that you have no right to vote because you were not at your property in the past 30 days. Especially with a winter vote. Most only go out in the summer. Besides, if you are paying taxes in the area and everyone else in the area has a vote, why does it matter if you were at your place in the past 30 days.
Do all the snowbirds get to vote this May in the provincial election? Afteral they have been away the past 6 months only returning home in April
“Vanderhoof is a small community with some damn fine councillors and mayor.Why don’t you sit down with them and talk it over, I’m sure with the common sense and good judgement you all have, you can iron something out.”
They showed how fine they were when they set up this shell game.
“Do all the snowbirds get to vote this May in the provincial election”
Only if they are under 80. The province is applying Vatican voting rules for supreme leader. ;-)
“They will end up paying more for the lawyer than the cost of the pool. What a joke… I would rather give a few bucks to some kids for a pool than to some greedy lawyer!”
Don’t think they will be paying a lawyer 7500 each, not like the city of PG does…
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