Cuts of $20-$25 million if re-elected now there is an incentive to vote for the libs.In order to prevent these cuts we have to approve the pipeline,sell Hydro,increase personal tax, user fees,increase corp tax breaks to create more jobs oh yes let the fun begin.

Seems to me that the University was over funded for the past 4/5 years. That is to say they are funded for the total number of full time equivalent students, based on their yearly forecast

UNBC has been forecasting high numbers and as a result were funded on these numbers but the students never materialized. So finally the Government said it had to stop.

The so called reductions, of $1.5% and 1.0% are a result of their now being funded on the more realistic number of FTE students. In other words, there have been no increase in FTE students, and in fact numbers have remained static, and therefore funding will not increase.

Such is the way of life in the fast lane.

You got it steph. At the end of the day, the money always has to come from somewhere, and you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

It’s too bad more people don’t realize this.

So we’re talking less than $100.00 per year. That’s the equivalent of 2 days part time shifts at Tim’s or MacDonalds.

Pretty inexpensive post Sec. education I think.

Which makes me wonder why those spoiled brat Quebec Students think $70.00 a year increase is worth rioting in the streets for. If they took just one day of rioting…they could pay for the 70 buck increase.

Quebec is the socialist state that Adrian Dix sees for BC.

I wonder if the race to become the greenest uni has added to the costs. Thought their new energy system was to save lots of money. Creative bookkeeping maybe.

Just stick to education folks not fads.

If you search for UNBC in the news, what will show up is the WIDC scandal. I won’t be surprised if the scandal further hurts the UNBC enrollment numbers this year.

It comes at the time when new students choose the university that they want to register. With no permanent dean of enrollment and dean of graduate studies in place, the university isn’t in a good situation, especially that UNBC has recently re-appointed Dr McGill as acting dean of graduate programs. This is the same guy, during his last tenure as CSAM dean, the enrollment numbers in his college dropped by 50% and UNBC is still defending his actions in courts.

As long as UNBC keeps managers with bad performance, managers like Dean McGill who contributed to the major decline of enrollment numbers in UNBC, there is no prospect for an improvement.

Former athletic director McNamara knew that if he kept bad players in his teams, his teams performance will be poor. UNBC administration does not have that insight to keep McNamaras with good performance in the team and let go of bad apples with poor performance. That is the UNBC’s principal problem.

“It is much more difficult to measure non performance than performance.”

[Harold S. Geneen]

What?
A budget shortfall?
Tuition increases?
OMG!…how will they ever fund their part in the trojan horse/wooden toy box downtown?

gimmeabreak if only it were that easy! It is actually our tax dollars supporting these idiots through transfer payments.

So Adrian’s last name is Dix and his wife’s last name is Saklikar???

LOL, I would like to vote NDP just to have a “first couple” in power that would make even Monty Python blush.

I wonder if their chief of staff will be Mike Hunt.

“It is much more difficult to measure non performance than performance”

Especially for someone who does not know what he/she is doing.

Another quote from Geneen: “The worst disease which can afflict executives in their work is not, as popularly supposed, alcoholism; it’s egotism”

But the one related more directly to anyone who is having budget problems this quote is particularly applicable: “The only unforgivable sin in business is to run out of cash.”

Then again, any governement organization is not really a business, are they?

BTW, that atrium would be a nice addition to the 6 storey wood building downtown as part of a public component to a winter city downtown.

The parallam columns used are reported to be the strongest engineered wood product we have at the moment. Engineered wood products are the fastest growing segment of the building materials industry in North America and the world.

“Then again, any governement organization is not really a business, are they?”

True enough. Isn’t Gov’t technically a non-profit organization? ;-)

“Then again, any government organization is not really business, are they?”
Damn good questions gus!…that could start a serious, long term debate!
Especially when they insist on spending more than they take in.
$25 million for a wooden box comes to mind.
Which brings another question…when is a government considered to be “broke”?
Doesn’t a massive debt load in the billions technically mean they are broke?…or that simply “fun with numbers”?

Too late to cancel the project. Besides, Dix and the local guy have said they support it and won’t cancel anything.

That being said, the building can be built and used for other functions. The NDP will have enough money through additional taxes to create a research park at UNBC and they will seed it with a research arm of the new Engineering program.

Be careful univ in your predictions. Your are not the ndp, and the ndp is not you.

“The University is a business and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken.We are a business with education at our core – the intellectual capacity of the University is first and foremost – but the University needs to generate income streams in order to shape its own destiny rather than have it determined for it.”

[Bob Burgess, Vice-Chancellor, University of Leicester, UK]

I am not too sure if I attribute this properly, but I believe socredible would say that government is never broke.

I certainly believe governments are never broke.

Here is a straight quote from wikipedia ….

“Although the terms bankrupt and insolvent are often used in reference to governments or government obligations, a government cannot be insolvent in the normal sense of the word. Generally, a government’s debt is not secured by the assets of the government, but by its ability to levy taxes.

“By the standard definition, all governments would be in a state of insolvency unless they had assets equal to the debt they owed. If, for any reason, a government cannot meet its interest obligation, it is technically not insolvent but is “in default”.

“As governments are sovereign entities, persons who hold debt of the government cannot seize the assets of the government to re-pay the debt.

“However, in most cases, debt in default is refinanced by further borrowing or monetized by issuing more currency (which typically results in inflation and may result in hyperinflation).”

Gus is right….governments are never broke as long as they can levy taxes or exert pressure on some other level of governments or some other governments to finance them.

Quebec is a prime example of a government that is woefully bankrupt but still has the ability to suck more taxes out of their citizens, and suck more money out of the transfer payments. Presently it appears that Quebec is sucking up about 80% of all the transfer payments to fuel their bankrupt economy and they still want more.

Quebec is a prime example of bankrupt socialism. Its time to turn off the cash tap. Hopefully Harper will take note that the Tories don”t need Quebec to be a majority government and wean them off the federal govt. cash t-t.

Maybe at the same time the cash cow can dry up for the morally corrupt Quebec politicians we have enjoyed reading about for so long (tongue in cheek comment).

Governments do go broke. Cyprus is a prime example.

Not being able to pay their debt, they are in the process of stealing money from people’s bank accounts.

You can call this a tax if you chose, however thievery comes to mind.

If they cannot come up with the money they need to pay their debt they will plead bankruptcy, the same as a business.

Finland went broke a few years ago, and refused to go further in debt to pay its loans.

Seems to me that a number of years ago New Zealands socialist Government went broke.

By the way..I think George Iwana is a good man and a good President for UNBC. he took over a very large deficit and has done a good job to retain quality in the learning while fighting financial pressures. I am confident that he will lead UNBC along a good path, as long as those who don’t care about debt stay off his back and let him do his job. I also dont think for a minute George Iwana is tied to the WIDC mess in ANY way. His integrity would never allow him to be enjoined by those of McLaren ilk.

So Finland still exists ….

So does New Zealand

Also New York City

And Cyprus …. they have other problems there anyway ….

And the USA is going broke just so that Israel doesn’t …. ;-)

When a person or company goes broke, they can declare bankruptcy and make settlement for their creditors as a percentage on the dollar ……. and then keep on running their lives and businesses.

I mean, one can’t even conquer a country by military action anymore these days.

We live in a new age when things are no longer as they seem. Even the Mafia is not as hard lined as they used to be. :-)

How can you tell a country is broke? Many go without food and health care and significant portions of their population die. Why? Because they do not have the infrastructure to support people in the country.

That is not the case with any of the countries you named, Palopu.

Try the following and you’re talkin’

Congo
Liberia
Zimbabwe
Burundi
Eritrea
Central African Republic
Niger
Sierra Leone
Malawi
Togo
Madagascar
Afghanistan
Guinea
Mozambique
Ethiopia
Mali
Guineaq-Bissau
Comoros
Haiti
Uganda

It is a stretch too far to go from UNBC government and budget to state governments and their budgets. States go bankrupt and recover easily, but if a university or business go bankrupt due to poor management and poor performance, it is finished. FINITO!

UNBC badly needs good MAN-agers with *excellent performance* (not with poor performance) who can compete with other knowledge providers in BC and in global marketplace for a bigger share of student pie.

It is an intense competition and poor performance is not sustainable in this ‘age of sustainability’. “if you cannot stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.”

Don’t forget North Korea, read this weekend that the government is producing meth and getting their foreign diplomats to sell it in order to raise some coin.

Was wondering why they wanted to set up a consulate on lower Spruce Street.

“if a university or business go bankrupt due to poor management and poor performance, it is finished. FINITO!”

Which planet do you live on, univ?

Do you really think that the province would allow UNBC to fold? They can, however, put in an interim Governing Board to take charge until the financial problems are turned around. No one in their right mind would shut down a university.

Governments are governments. The province has virtually limitless debt capacity. They have not approached the Fiscal Cliff quite yet. We will discover that under the NDP, don’t worry.

BTW, were you ever fired from UNBC?

gus: “We will discover that under the NDP, don’t worry.”

Speaking of the NDP, has anyone seen Adrian Dix lately? Or does the party still have him in hiding?

gus, are you working for UNBC’s public relations office?

If you are working for UNBC public relations, you cannot come here and defend BC Liberal party and bash NDP while on public money. It is illegal.

Lonesome sparrow …. I listed the bottom 20 countries ….

North Korea is around the 32nd country on that list …. at the same level as Kenya….

35% of workforce is still agricultural.

Almost 20% of exports go to South Korea … I found that interesting … and they import the same value from South Korea…

North Koreans are not know to be overweight. ;-)

I think Dix is in the USA to get some pointers from the Democrats to find out how to win a state/provincial election against the Republicans …. ;-)

You must be a wannabe politican, univ. Answering a question with a question. ;-)

If you don’t want to answer it, just get the balls to say so. Simple as that.

NOTRE DAME UNIVERSITY OF NELSON.(NDU)

At the height of its operation, it enrolled 2,000 students in a variety of academic disciplines.

Although the University attracted sufficient numbers of students, it encountered financial difficulties, partially as a result of being the first University in Canada to endorse a faculty labour union, and in 1977, at the request of the Notre Dame Board of Directors, the Province of BC assumed control, renaming it the David Thompson University Centre and placing it under the administration of the University of Victoria. In spite of its local and regional popularity, the provincial government found the per-student cost too high and closed it in 1984.

Notable alumni Don Cozzetto, Edward John, Andrew Petter.

So there you have it. A University shut down by the Government. UNBC is presently experiencing some of the same problems, as this University, and if they can’t get it together they too could be shut down.

BTW, univ, this might make your day.

McGill is not my favourite person either.

I have seen him in (in)action on many occasions. He did not carry the same weight in discussions as many others did. Many people at UNBC could have done a superior job.

Do yourself and UNBC a service and stop your BC Liberal party propaganda by misusing public money.

UNBC is mired in too many scandals to afford yet another scandal. UNBC may not be as lucky as TechBC university in Surrey which was closed by Hon. Minister Bond.

gus: “BTW, were you ever fired from UNBC?”

Based on ‘univ’s’ response and some of his other ramblings, I think you might be onto something.

Seems we have two documented cases where the Government closed down a University.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. **No one in their right mind would shut down a University**

– “No one in their right mind would shut down a University.”
– “Shirley Bond shut down a university in BC.”
=======================
If you follow the logic of gus, then Shirley Bond not in her right mind.

“Who’s more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?” [Star Wars]

Do you mind telling me which university or universities those were?

Is there room in the sand box for me to play, or should I stand outside and watch?

JB … let us just say that “univ” is just carrying on in the footsteps of “Nowicki”.

;-)

Hey Runner …. do you know whcih universities weere shut down in BC?

Maybe the weird one in Nelson. Or how about the O’Grady College? Or Royal Roads, which was a miltary college? There was/is another fancy one on the coast in Squamish with high ambitions, I think.

Nope, Quest is still going it appears. http://www.questu.ca

Notre Dame, a private (Catholic) university

“Although the University attracted sufficient numbers of students, it encountered financial difficulties, partially as a result of being the first university in Canada to endorse a faculty labour union,[citation needed] and in 1977, at the request of the Notre Dame Board of Directors, the Province of British Columbia assumed control, renaming it the David Thompson University Centre and placing it under the administration of the University of Victoria. In spite of its local and regional popularity, the provincial government found the per-student cost too high and closed it in 1984.”

They asked the province to take it over, and after giving it the goode olde collge try, the closed it.

BTW, Don Cozzetto born and raised in Rossland, received his BA from Notre Dame.

Sorry Palopu, I did not see your post, so I duplicated it …. :-(

Anyway, as I wrote, Notre Dame was a private university. It was not a university established by the province. Many of the religious “colleges” established in this country ended up being taken over by government because the churches could not support them any longer.

University of Ottawa was one of the larger ones run by the Oblates till about 1963 when it went secular. It had substantial investment into expensive science facilities including engineering and medicine with many PhD programs. That one lucked out in it being able to continue with normal government subsidies.

Notre Dame was a small liberal arts college with most costs going to salaries. Unlike the liberal arts colleges in the Maritimes and Eastern Townships, such a college in small town BC could not survive. BC did not have the same interest in post secondary education. It still has some catching up to do with the total number of seats as well as reasonable geographical distribution.

UBC was close to being shut down during the Depression in 1930. In 1936, Columbian College was shut down in Nanaimo but a vocational school was opened in the same city.

Then came the stupidity of the NDP opening up the Technical University of BC in Surrey. It was a maverick organization from the start. The new government closed that university and consolidated it into Kwantlen and SFU. Kwantlen was transformed into a university, which is basically the same that was done in Kamloops as well as Nanaimo. PG has two post secondary institutes similar to Thunder Bay and Sudbury Ontario.

There is a difference with shutting down a place and amalgamating campuses.

If it should happen in PG, the two campuses would continue to exist and be consolidated with one administration trying to be an institute from 6 week certificate programs to PhD programs.

This is what became of the Technical University of BC since it was absorbed by SFU

http://www.surrey.sfu.ca/welcome

7,500 students.

The result of shutting down one entity that had problems which it could not deal with and transfering the students to another university which had an experienced governance and operating system.

I think the community eventually got what they asked for.

I could see that if the UNBC cannot operate effectively, UBC may be asked to take it over to give us a configuration similar to Kelowna with a UBC campus as well as a community college.

But shutting a university operation down here? We are too far along for that. Many who understand how long it takes a university to establish itself are surprised at how well UNBC is doing from a quality point of view.

Runner ran away …:-(

If it should happen in PG, the two campuses would continue to exist and be consolidated with one administration trying to be an institute from 6 week certificate programs to PhD programs.
============================================
Preliminary discussions have occurred over the last number of years that would see the three Northern Colleges and UNBC be more effectively integrated … to date the gov’t has shown more interest than the 4 institutions … who knows … with declining enrollments and the dropping demographics in the target student groups, there may be more interest in the coming years …

PG has two post secondary institutes similar to Thunder Bay and Sudbury Ontario.
=============================================
and Victoria (Camosun and UVic) which was the classic example in the 80s for a standalone university rather than the gov’t favored option (university-colleges like Kamloops, Fraser Valley and Naniamo)

“Charles McCaffrey was among the first to recognize the need for a university in the North.As Principal of the College of New Caledonia, he was a major instigator in the campaign to establish UNBC, an experience he described in UNBC: A Northern Crusade, the definitive book on UNBC’s creation.” from ZoomInfo
———————————————
if you were looking for a historical view …
———————————————
by the way, the early northern BC considerations in the 80s looked at the Thunderbay model but quickly went to Alberta (Lethbridge) for a more comparable model.

“Preliminary discussions have occurred over the last number of years that would see the three Northern Colleges and UNBC be more effectively integrated”

That depends entirely of what is meant by integration. Admin or program integration? They are two totally different things.

Integration of programs has been discussed here between CNC and UNBC almost since day one of the creation of UNBC. The two year forestry tech program at CNC was recognized by UNBC in the very early stages. Since the CNC version of the Forest Tech program met its demise and may be coming back, I do not know what the situation is.

Basically, every college makes its own transfer arrangement for non-university type of courses. There is better integration with U Transfer. CNC used to do quite well with UBC, SFU and U. Vic transfer arrangements for their UT courses. Nothing existed for the 2 year diploma programs.

The colleges were set up using the Vocational schools as bases initially. Melding, they called it. They presented all the traditional vocational programs and the new genre for white collar workers who typically worked side by side with the professionals. Learning by doing on the job went by the wayside. Not quite as much in BC as in the eastern provinces which is one of the reasons we still have fewer programs and fewer students in the programs.

The model that was used were the CGEPs in Quebec. They did not have universities in smaller towns. Ontario was the one that started that. North Bay, Peterborough, Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay – all cities relatively remote from large cities with populations similar to PG. PLUS they all had/have Community Colleges.

Let me look at one example in Ontario that people typically do not look at, Sault Ste Marie –
City population = 75,141, metro=79,800 that is about as close as one can get to PG in size
Algoma University – Incorporated 1965, student population 1,253, international students (USA?) 12%
Sault College – incorporated 1965, 2,400FT and 4,500PT

BTW, Colleges in Ontario are typically referred to as colleges of applied arts and technology.

So, who has heard of Algoma University? They have existed for 50 years. Look at UNBC and the success it has had over half the time period, both in terms of students and programs as well as reputation from comparative assessments.

The problem here is that we compare ourselves to parts of BC such as the GVRD and even greater Victoria. That is not us.

We could be like Kamloops, like Nanaimo but have long ago lost the battle to Kelowna and its linear city from Vernon to Penticton and soon to come to Osoyoos.

We have a stagnant population base. Our “growth” has been in infrastructure replacement – look at the entire Health system and its facilities, UNBC to improve on CNC’s UT programs, the airport passenger terminal, as well as a different way of shopping – the box stores at Westgate. That is about it. No new major manufacturing, in fact a demise. Very much the same as Sault Ste Marie.

BTW, neither the Liberals or the NDP are going to make much headway into bridging the north south gap we have in this province.

Alberta seems to have solved it nicely. For some reason or other they were smart enough to put their capital in the centre of the province.

Of course, having oil in the northern half has helped a bit too ..

Seems they followed the traditional Canadian formula in creating head offices in the southern cities and let the people in the northern hinterlands get their hands dirty.

Nest time try to ponder upon what you want to say and write in public and check your sources before embarrassing yourself in public.

“Critics are our friends, they show us our faults.”

[Benjamin Franklin]

univ wrote: “Nest time try to ponder upon what you want to say and write in public and check your sources before embarrassing yourself in public.”

I am not embarassed. I make mistakes and admit to them when I make them. Do you find anything wrong with that?

Just to be clear, the mistake I made was not reading some posts ahead of the one I made.

The so called “closure” of the Technical U in Surrey was a closure of the business entity. The facility was retained and expanded when a credible university was given the facility, the programs, and the students.

Shutting something down is like Netherlands Sawmill. THAT was a facility which was shut down and guted of all its machinery with the only thing left standing being the shell of the mill and the admin. building which was left for the tree inside to take over the building interior.

The vocational schools were also all shut down if that is the interpretation one were to use.

However, the term was that they were “melded” into a new community college system typically under trades departments. Building remained, instructors remained, programs remained, and even more important, the province continued to fund those knowing that a credible organization would bring the entity back into good working order.

So, univ, did you used to work at UNBC and were fired?

Oh, I asked that already and you did not answer. But I think any reasonable person would make that assumption by now.

What were you, a lab tech? Surely you did not teach.

gus, it is none of your business what is my occupation. Stick to the facts and don’t bash NDP while being paid by a public money from UNBC. It is illegal to do so.