City Issues Release On Firefighter Investigation
Monday, May 20, 2013 @ 10:46 AM
Prince George- The City of Prince George has issued a statement following release of a story by 250News Sunday in which we reported that an investigation is underway into the involvement of a Prince George Firefighter in the selling of stolen goods.
Here is that statement;
“The City is aware of the ongoing RCMP investigation. Upon learning of that investigation, the City took immediate steps to ensure that public trust was not compromised. While we are unable to comment on individual circumstances due to privacy laws, we can confirm that the City is conducting its own independent investigation. As part of that process, it has suspended one individual without pay, pending completion of its investigation. The City has and will continue to take steps to protect the public interest.”
From what 250 News has been able to piece together the investigation centers around the recovery of a River boat and an excavator. It is also believed that other high-ticket items may be involved.
When the matter first came to light at City hall is not known, or why the matter did not become public earlier.
Apparently some form of amnesty is being offered to other firefighters who return items that may have been stolen. Police say this is a practise, for people who can show that they did not knowingly purchase stolen property . It is an offence to possess stolen property.
The number of persons involved in the investigation at this time is not known.
Comments
Those who bought the stolen merchandise could be completely innocent and they only found out it was hot when they tried to register the boat or buy parts for the equipment and were asked for serial number by the dealership raising red flags.
However if they bought these items for a fraction of the true worth they are not completely innocent by any means even if there is not enough evidence to charge them with PSP.
I remember being approached downtown by someone selling cigarettes and even though I don’t smoke knew they were real cheap. I didn’t think I wonder how he makes any money selling them that cheap but instead wondered which store got broken into last night.
I’m not a labour lawyer but do wonder about one thing in the city’s statement.
“it has suspended one individual without pay”
Says to me that this investigation has been going on for some time and charges will soon be filed. To suspend someone without pay on unproven allegations is unusual to say the least.
Like the Duffy affair this may balloon a bit as he may just be a ‘fence’ and not actually committing the thefts
Firefighter*
#spellcheck
There was a closed session of Council a week ago this past Saturday.
Saturday sessions are very rare, so it is likely something that came up very quickly and required a briefing to Council.
Whether it related to this matter of suspension wihtout pay, one does not know. It could have been another time sensitive matter dealing with litigation or potential litigation.
http://princegeorge.ca/cityhall/mayorcouncil/councilagendasminutes/agendas/2013/2013_05_11/2013_05_11_noon.pdf
“Firefigther” … alternate spelling as pronounced by someone with a lithp …..
A move to simplified english spelling
fyerfyter ……
Anyone else spot the two key points City Hall really wanted to get across to us?
“…ensure that “public trust” was not compromised.”
“…protect “public interest.”
I think it’s little late at all three levels of government; municipal, provincial and federal.
Lurching from one scandal to the next does nothing to advance public trust, or protect public interest!
In-out scandal, house senator expense scandal, robo-calling “pierre poutine”, ethnic vote scandal, WIDC, Kitty Heller Report, the list goes on, and on, and now this?
Holy Rob Ford! Welcome to PG!
Where and when is it going to end, city hall clean up your house! (extended family included)
And some long-weekend drunk and drugged revellers are terrorizing residents of Whistler and causing damage to property, such as smashing store windows!
It’s getting ugly out there!
Who needs to watch a soap opera IMF you live in PG just read the news!
“I think it’s little late at all three levels of government; municipal, provincial and federal. Lurching from one scandal to the next does nothing to advance public trust, or protect public interests!”
The majority of people voted these corrupt governments into office. What they expect to get? They say a fish rots from the head down.
Thanks cherry, good to be here! Hey anyone, got some cavi? The last one was such a “hit” … I want another!
If only we had a policy at City Hall that would provide information on a proactive basis rather than a reactive basis.
Acting reactively is not being in control of the situation one finds themselves in. In my opinion, that is a very simplistic and poor communication policy. Rest assured, it is an intentional unwritten policy in this city.
Get off your high horse univ. Have you forgot Casino-gate or stealing from charities and directing the funds to NDP coffers AKA Bingo-gate.
The teachers are not going to be allowed open access to the province’s purse,too bad, suck it up cupcake. Now you might not get unlimited massages like the teachers in Vancouver-life is hard:)
Agree that a person would feel much better if the city had issued a press release when they first learned of the investigation by the RCMP rather than look off into space and whistle hoping that the press did not sniff the story out(was loose lips Brian in the meeting on the 11th;)
Had they issued this release saying the city has removed this person pending court proceedings and that no further comments would be forthcoming as the matter was before the court….but then the $104 thou a year manager of miscommunication would know better.
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To put it in perspective it small potatoes compared to what is currently happening in Moore, Okla.
” the City took immediate steps to ensure that public trust was not compromised.”
As a resident of Prince George I think I deserve to know what these steps were.
” The City has and will continue to take steps to protect the public interest.
How is the City doing this? I would like more information please about what steps our Mayor and Council are taking and then I think the residents can decide for themselves if these measures protect public interest and restore public trust.
Suspending an individual without pay does nothing for my faith in the ability of City Hall to restore my confidence in public servants serving the best interests of the tax payers.
univ, sparrow; my comment was made in a general context, and not party specific! At the Federal level I used Conservative Government examples because they were fresh in my mind, we could reach back to the Liberal Sponsorship scandal as another example as well.
My “trust” in any government; municipal, provincial or federal is beginning to falter, is there no end to these scandals, and crimes?
lonesome sparrow@The Bingogate scandal was confined to a single riding association. There was no evidence that anyone else was involved.
did the fireman(men) use their position to acquire info that enabled theft or were the crimes committed by someone that just happened to work at the fire dept. ??
I am pretty sure I know who this guy is.
If its the same guy that has theatend me in the past, I can have a laugh.
I had to call the police on him at one time.
I love Karma.
It’s not as if you can just walk up to an excavator or a riverboat and put them in your pocket and walk away.One would more than likely need some assistance,time to steal it without being spotted,the means to pull it off such as a pickup and large trailer etc.This is a huge surprise to me considering all this person would put on the line just to become a firefighter.With all the tickets and loopholes one has to jump through to get on with the department,is a challenging task.You would think they would appreciate the position given to them that much more.
The City has a court case pending (Haldi Road) My guess is the May 11th meeting was about this case rather than the Fire Fighters.
Just saying.
No kidding jakeadoo – I know several fireman and they all worked thier a$$es off to get where they are. They are rewarded for it too, they all have boats, sleds, toys etc that they have paid for. Mind numbing that someone would risk it all for what?
Jakeadoo & interceptor – I completely agree with you. It’s sad that the actions of one person can put the whole fire departments reputation on the line as well. These guys work hard to get their jobs and value the positions they have been given. I really hope everyone looks at this with an open mind because the actions of one should not taint the reputations of others.
I don’t think anyone is blaming the whole fire department on this issue.
We will get (or should get) all the information in due course. People will be suspended, or discharged, or charged, as the situation may warrant, and that will be the end of that.
Palopu …. I agree that the Saturday in-camera could have been about one of several legal matters, or even more than one..
Another one would be a decision made by City hall to take a businessman to court, alleging he is contravening the zoning bylaw by storing and repairing logging trucks on residential property.
Again, there is nothing in the legislation which requires the City to keep the meeting closed or the purpose of the meeting secret. The only matters which have to be kept secret is contractural arrangements with the province.
So, it would be easy to say the meeting will be about one or more of the following:
1. Haldi Road litigation
2. Illegal parking of trucks in residential areas litigation.
3. A confidential City personnel matter.
With the latter, I believe a media release would be appropriate which gives a short action to be taken such as was done with the media release today.
gus… you are on the right track, I just wanted to clarify a few of your points if I may.
You are right that “there is nothing in legislation which requires the City to keep the meeting closed…”
The legislation you are referring to is in Section 90 of the Community Charter which specifically provides: “that council “may” close a meeting or part of a meeting by passing a resolution that sets out the basis for closing the meeting to discuss any of the following: (long list of subjects).
http://www.cscd.gov.bc.ca/lgd/gov_structure/community_charter/governance/open_meetings.htm
gus… if you, or anyone else on this discussion board, really want to understand how the CIty is suppose to be governed and operated, spend some time reading the Community Charter on the site I have referred you :)
Happy discovery… look for the conflict of interest guidelines as well, in my humble opinion, the Community Charter needs to play greater role in the governance and operations of this City!
People#1 … Walter Babicz is the legal guru that sits at Council meetings and interprets legislation when asked or when he notices something is not going according to process.
He will, of course, advise on the minimum standard set by the charter. It is up to Council to determine what might be a best practices approach from the point of view of informing the residents of the City.
I have never heard ANY Councillor suggest in open meeting that they ought to look at getting some best practices into their governance process/protocol as opposed to minimum (legal) standard of practices.
Like Building codes, he Charter is a minimum standard, not a best practices standard. The new auditor general of municipalities will be coming up with some of those over the years.
Walter Babicz is nothing compared to you and your potential gus! I am disappointed that you did click on my link to the Community Charter that lists the various issues which “may” be subject to closed council meetings! If you did, you should have read further, because the next section below it proved we were both “wrong”!
There are subjects at City council meetings that absolutely require closed meeting! gus, take my advise, and read the link, because if you are as frustrated and disgusted as I think you are with the way this City is being run, I can help you and others change it!!
I am sorry, People#1, I do not understand what you meant to say.
Your link is to the web page of the Ministry responsible for the Community Charter which has a quick overview of the Charter on it. It is NOT, the actual charter document which is located here: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/LOC/freeside/–%20C%20–/41_Community%20Charter%20SBC%202003%20c.%2026/00_Act/03026_00.htm
You will notice that the page states the version date at the top. So, this morning the currency date at the top is May 8, 2013.
There is a general warning on the bclaws.ca site that if one wanted to use the laws for legal purposes, the official version is the printed one. That is just a CYA statement. Should there be an update to an Act, a page such as a paraphrase of a Ministry responsible will likely lag behind by a few days or even longer.
So, to tell you the truth People#1, it was nice of you to point out the legal background of the meeting requirements, but I already knew that. I used to work with the Municipal Act before the creation of the Community Charter, and now reference the Charter much less frequently, but most certainly several times a year.
I do not thing either of us were wrong.
Section 90 starts off with:
â90 (1) A part of a council meeting MAY be closed to the public if the subject matter being considered relates to or is one or more of the following:â
Because of the way it is written, the default is actually that the list identifies topics for open meetings, but that for those issues Council is allowed to pass a motion that meetings dealing with topic on the list MAY be closed. The City web site shows all those motions to close meetings and identifies which one or more of the 15 listed reasons is used to close the meeting.
On the other hand, the next part of Section 90 goes on with the 5 issues for which Council meetings MUST be closed.
â90 (2) A part of a council meeting must be closed to the public if the subject matter being considered relates to one or more of the following:â
If you look at my post to Palopu, I did mention that there are some meetings which must be closed.
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So, I am curious as to how you could help to change things for the better in the governance of this community. From my point of view that would be a very tall order and would likely be a totally frustrating exercise.
Thank you for your response gus. Again you are correct; the site I referred you to is not the official Community Chart, rather it is a Union of BC Municipalities approved site that “applies” the Community Charter.
gus, more people like you need to visit the site I referred you to, and became familiar with the application of the Community Charter, then change for the better in the governance of this community is a certainty.
I have sat at many board room tables, as a member of those boards. All organization boards, who are reputable, have at least one member who is a lawyer. When a member attends a meeting, armed with the facts and truths of meeting agenda items, the likelihood of that individual influencing and affecting the decisions made at that meeting is greatly increased.
So… if more people like you, read the application of the Community Charter, the more people there will be who are capable of holding our Elected Officials accountable for decisions made at City Council meetings. We don’t even have to physically attend those City Hall meetings, just watch them in real time over the internet.
It is not up to me to change how City Hall is governed, it is up to more people like you, who become informed of the governance process, that can change City Hall for the better.
Everyone knows that business and money have been running City Hall for a long time now, but it should not!
City Hall should be governing this city as “Community” where business is only a part of that community, yet business has taken over. An example of this is the river road dike referendum, it took a city wide referendum to change the business focused minds of our Mayor and Council.
If our, the community’s voice, had not been expressed through that referendum… think about all of our money that would have been spent to the benefit of business and business only!!!
It is called the “Community” Charter and not a “Business” Charter. Our city needs to be governed, and run by “community” minded leaders, and not “business” minded leaders that fly off to China to pursue distant pie-in-the-sky business opportunities leaving community needs behind.
Wow, what a sad day when I read all of these negative comments and see so many people condemning someone before it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are even quilty. From what I read, the RCMP are only investigating, and the City has suspended this person, only because they are under investigation not because they are guilty. I find it frightening that people are so quick to judge. I read in the newspapers, all the time, where a RCMP officer is under investigation but is suspended “with” pay. Yet this person, who is only under investigation, has been suspended “without” pay; cetainly the hangman wears a different cape in this case.
And then to read “Volunteer firefighter’s” (or shall I say Fire Fighter wanna be)comment that the fire fighters are staking out our homes when they come to provide assistance. How low does one have to stoop to come up with a comment such as that.
“JoeyTomato” states that he “thinks he knows who this guy is” and “isn’t Karma great”. Well JoeyTomato I think I might know this guy to (a statement we can all probably say since there are a large number of fire fighters in PG) and if that is the case then I want you to know the following: I have probably seen this person at the scene of many accidents and he is the one who stands out. He’s the one that goes above and beyond the call of duty. I want you to know that I would trust this person any day to pull my baby, grandparents, or children out of a burning house. I would trust him with my life, when he pulled me out of a wreck, and gave me CPR. Yes I would put my children’s life in his hands and not for one second would I ever doubt his ability as a fire fighter. None of us, know what happened in the situation and yet we are all so anxious to condemn him.
bc2412 comments “did the fireman(men) use their position to acquire info that enabled theft or were the crimes committed by someone that just happened to work at the fire dept. ??” At least he asks the question, and isn’t offering an opinion; but again the power of suggestion is there. But I choose to sway to the positive side of his argument and say “of course not”!
I would also ask people to consider this thought: “if the RCMP have gone so far as to offer amnesty to other fire fighters does this not indicate the weakness of this whole situation. We all know the historic riff between firefighters and policeman; is this not indication of a perfect opportunity to paint all with the same brush.
Why would anyone be surprised that the Mayor does not make comments to Opinion250? This is not a legitimate publication. It is a gossip rag with virtually no credibility. Who are the reporters…? Meisner’s wife and kids? Wow, people.
This a great time to say thanks to The Prince George Fire Department. On two separate occasions they pulled my grown sons from car accidents. The first was one that seen my son end up with a badly broken spine. Their care and attention prevented him from being unable to walk. The second was when a police cruiser hit the passenger side of my sons friends car. A seat that my son was extracted from. I owe them a huge debt of gratitude. I understand fully the hours of dedication I takes to be a first responder, I have many work relationships with firemen. This investigation does not include the many heroes within the organization. FYI, I don’t spellcheck. So feel free to do that for me. And my name is easily seen in my username!
People#1 …
I have been on a number of commissions as well as advisory committees of City Council over the last 25+ years as well as Boards dealing with community matters such as Hubble Homestead, Air Quality, Performing Arts, PG Environmental Society, Injured Workers. The list goes on.
As far as the City committees which reported to Council there was:
â¢The Planning Commission which was disbanded a couple of decades ago, for instance. It was a great way to get the public involved with some planning input on a project by project basis.
â¢The Parking Commission was also disbanded. I was never a member of that.
â¢The Heritage Commission might as well be disbanded. In fact, it did not exist for a few years. Why might it be disbanded? Because it does nothing to protect the few meaningful buildings and viewscapes we have. Instead, the Commissioners wait for them to disappear and then they put up a sign, several with wrong information on them. And, of course, after just 3 or so years, they are starting to show deterioration to the point where a replacement program needs to be looked at or just let them disappear.
â¢Then there was the Healthy Community Committee. Other than committee members there was less than a handful of people who understood what that was. It did not deal with the physical health of people, although it did not exclude it. It was a committee that looked at the City from a holistic point of view. Nobody does that around here. Too complex for people to understand. And besides, like many things it was a fad during the days when everything was clicking along like clockwork. None of that luxury anymore.
When I ask myself whether those of us who were involved with those types of âoversightâ committees reporting to Council brought change, my answer is no. If we did, it has all unraveled by now. However, it was fun while it lasted. For the most part great people, great conversations and debate, but really, in hind sight, they were primarily make do processes, sort of like City Council.
Often I think we could actually run a better City if Council did not stand in the way of a good corporate business structure.
bcfed wrote: “Why would anyone be surprised that the Mayor does not make comments to Opinion250?”
I do not know why others might be or might not be surprised.
I am not surprised because the Mayor is showing her character time and time again through her actions. I am a strong believer in the saying “actions speak louder than words”.
Whatever people might think about this site, one thing is clear, it is the most open site about this and other northern communities around. None have as much response to articles as this one. None have an open forum.
The reactions and opinions on this site go far beyond the writers and owners of this site. While there is some censorship, the editorials are kept under the heading “VIEWS”. The Citizen, the Free Press, The Vancouver Sun, The Globe and Mail, The Washington Post …….. they all have editorial and column sections.
NONE have the level of reader reactions this site has.
NONE take any public figures in this community to task. Instead they take people to task who are more commonly known to people in BC, Canada, North America, and the world.
Well, our Mayor is not that well know as a public figure. She is, nonetheless, a public figure and she simply has to adjust to attacks from left and right and centre, from rich and poor, from reporters of all stripes and backgrounds and learn to grin and bear it as others do.
However, by the action of closing off communications with a site which has a significant following by some of the taxpayers in this community, a following of people who think independently and are not afraid to hold those conversations which the Mayor so aptly spoke about during her election, she has shown she did not mean those words by her actions. As I said, those actions have spoken louder than her words.
Over to you bcfed!!!!!
Why does our city NOT have a code of ethics bylaw for all City Officials and Employees to follow? Survey has one that I am attaching.
http://www.surrey.ca/bylawsandcouncillibrary/BYL-reg-12196-C928.pdf
This fireman (city employee) would not be employed if he were a City of Surrey fireman! Of course pending a review of his conduct.
Can you imagine if all Prince George City Officials and Employees had to follow a bylaw like Surrey’s???
Code of ethics? Isn’t that what your parents raised or tried to raise you with? Is it legal or is it ethical? There is a difference. Maybe instead of another election, maybe we should just approach 9 people in any line up and ask them if they want to run a city. Probably find a modicum of more honesty amongst them.
Exactly Harbinger, next election I will vote for all the candidates who have less than $5,000 in campaign financing! I probably won’t know these candidates, but these are the people who will not feel “overly obligated” to return favours to huge campaign contributors once in office.
Next election would not be the first time I submitted a “protest vote”, I did NOT vote for Dan Rogers or Sherri Green in the last election!
gus: “Well, our Mayor is not that well know as a public figure. She is, nonetheless, a public figure and she simply has to adjust to attacks from left and right and centre, from rich and poor, from reporters of all stripes and backgrounds”
I agree, as long as the so-called ‘attacks’ have some substance and don’t get personal. However, most of what is said on here about the Mayor is just plain rude and disrespectful. Much of it simply because she is female.
I am not a Sheri Green supporter, nor did I vote for her… but I can see why she doesn’t want to talk to this site.
That being said, I have no doubt she either reads the site, or has her assistant read it.
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