Local Taxpayers Should Have More Say In Civic Matters
Monday, May 27, 2013 @ 3:45 AM
The issues facing at least two Senators, Mike Duffy and Pamela Wallin in Ottawa over their expenses and means of charge backs, the accusations being made in Toronto about that city’s Mayor and his brother point to a growing need of more oversight in dealing with the decisions by politicians in Canada.
British Columbia enjoys at the provincial level , Recall, although the threshold is high , citizens can, and have demonstrated to the political elite when they do not want a piece of legislation. Case in point was the HST , where the voters in the province turned aside the HST. It very likely was a message to government when they introduced the legislation after the fact, not to mess with the voters. There may have been, and still may be an argument in favour of the taxing method however, the voters didn’t like the method of introduction.
Here in the city of Prince George, we have seen at least some city fathers arguing that the city needs a Performing Arts Center, while it can safely be argued that the general population does not agree. The problem however comes into play when the voters try to make themselves heard. There is no municipal legislation that allows for a recall, only the ability for the taxpayers to turn back money by laws over a certain amount.
The voters want emphasis put on the infrastructure in the community , while some of the civic leaders want to leave their mark with a Performing Arts Center and if the city were able to, for example, take money from the sale of the Pine Valley Golf course and divert it to a PAC , that transfer of money would not come under any scrutiny from the voters.
We need in BC the ability to make our civic politicians more accountable . The use of the reverse petition, for example, was floated again on the Terasen Gas deal with the expectation that voter fatigue would set in and the matter would pass after being defeated in its first try.
The River Rd Dike system was an example of the public speaking up on an issue and if the various civic leaders were faced with a form of recall , that tends to get their thoughts more on the side of the voter and not their own personal interest.
As it now stands , council need simply get a majority on a matter and then move on with the project with the taxpayers having no input other than election time. While the argument can be made that councillors and the mayor are elected to govern, if they side step this process what checks and balances are available?
I’m Meisner ands that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
A parallel universe exists in North Bay. Read the article about their newly formed ratepayers association and then go on to read the comments. There are about 100 of them. Maybe we should twin with that City.
http://www.nugget.ca/2012/12/12/ratepayers-say-no-tax-hike
BTW, whatever happened to the twinning project? We could have given birth to several real twins by this time.
Governments, at all levels, will continually try to engage in publicly funded ‘make work’ projects. Whether they are needed or wanted or not.
Normally they borrow to do this, and it’s a way for necessary ‘new credit’ to enter the economy.
Necessary, because without that continual flow of ‘new credit’ there is no chance that the totality of existing ‘credit’ (bank loans to the private sector and consumer)can be fully repaid as the borrowers have obligated themselves to do.
Because our economy, as its finances are currently constituted, is NOT capable of being fully financially ‘self-liquidating’ in each successive cycle of production.
We can’t fully pay FOR what we’ve done FROM what we’ve done, in other words, only from what we’re DOING, and even more so now, what we’re going to HAVE TO DO.
And without such repayments, the flow of new loans to those two sectors ceases. And a recession quickly becomes a depression.
Governments, unlike businesses and consumers, do not repay their borrowings. They ‘roll them over’, so to speak, as they mature. With one bond or treasury bill issue being retired from the proceeds of a new one. They can do this ad infinitum so long as they can raise enough in taxation to pay the interest. And there’s the rub.
They’ve done this to the point where meeting that interest, even with the interest rates for government borrowing at record low levels, is becoming harder and harder to do from taxation.
So there is now a great attraction to government in ‘selling’ one publicly owned asset to finance the construction of another. This obviates the need of the government to borrow (as much), and transfers the borrowing back into the private sector. Where the acquirer of the public asset then incurs the debt, and is responsible for it. (Think of CN and BC Rail, and the proceeds of the sale going into a new container terminal.)
This only DELAYS the inevitable. It is in no ways a CURE for the basic problem. And in fact makes it bigger. At some point, hopefully soon, before it overwhelms us, we’re going to have to deal with this issue. It’s not a problem incapable of solution, and we’d be all the better if we began to address it NOW instead of later.
If any tax were put up for a vote it would have a hard time passing even if people still expect the services the taxes provide. The same could be said of a PAC, I would venture that half of the population would never attend so see no need for one. I think it is more a question of scale.
As can plainly be seen by the building going up on Victoria Street the city tends to go way overboard and that may also be the case with the proposed PAC. I have never seen a business case presented where the proposed $50 million PAC is sustainable over the long term. The only professional theatre company in town has said that it is too rich for their blood and the pulse of the PGSO is getting harder to find every year.
Perhaps we could follow the example of Cambridge and build something like them but design it in such a way that it can be expanded if req’d in the future. If the project was more manageable it would be a matter of exchanging the Playhouse land for a PAC and Pine Valley would not be held hostage.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/property-report/new-theatre-in-cambridge-ont-stars-in-multiple-roles/article11966635/
I did get a good belly laugh when I read the mayor’s canned response to those writing letters of support for Pine Valley. Everything she has done and said in the past says her decision was made a loooooong time ago. I bet the residents of the Haldi area were paid similar lip service when they wrote a letter.
“I appreciate you taking the time to write. Your
input will be considered in our decisions.”
“There may have been, and still may be an argument in favour of the taxing method however, the voters didn’t like the method of introduction”
Don’t forget we also didn’t like the shift of the tax burden from business to the consumer and the many things that were taxed under the HST that weren’t under the PST/GST.
If you’re advocating for some form of direct democracy, then you should do some homework. It’s abysmally ineffective on a number of levels. The system we have isn’t perfect, but a representative democracy is far better than direct. Especially in light of how ill-educated and self-centred the voting demographic is in Canada, and Prince George in particular. What we need is more participation from the people who continually don’t vote and don’t get involved; the poor, the young and the disenfranchised.
You have a voice though Ben, if this is what you want then advocate for it. See how much support you get for it. Start a petition to get a referendum on the building of a PAC in this town. Start educating people on the vagaries of P3 initiatives and civic debt. Municipalities can and have gone bankrupt and it’s not pretty.
I look around this town at the aging infrastructure and I muse what bills have not come due yet and what surprises are yet to come. We haven’t even begun to bear the full weight of the RCMP building debt yet. Yet there are some on council that think building another mega project, that in it’s own lofty projections will not even cover its own operating costs is a good idea. This is a problem that needs to be corrected. I believe the only way to fix this is via a groundswell of public involvement to inform our representatives what we want and do not want and then let them do their jobs. I don’t want more direct democracy tools in the hands of more fools though. We need to become engaged and make the system we have work like it’s supposed to.
Sine: “If you’re advocating for some form of direct democracy, then you should do some homework. It’s abysmally ineffective on a number of levels. The system we have isn’t perfect, but a representative democracy is far better than direct. Especially in light of how ill-educated and self-centred the voting demographic is in Canada, and Prince George in particular.”
Great comment. I have very little faith in the average PG citizen to educate themselves and see the bigger picture. Most don’t care about what’s best for the population, as long as their self-centred needs are met.
Sine Nomine wrote: “I don’t want more direct democracy tools in the hands of more fools though. We need to become engaged and make the system we have work like it’s supposed to.” Good comments.
Perhaps it is time for various neighborhoods to organize themselves into groups that can communicate with Council members AND perhaps with other political levels. We really need to understand Council members and they need to understand us.
‘We don’t need more fools?’ Currently, we seem to have at least eight, and some would say nine – that make up our City Council.
“I don’t want more direct democracy tools in the hands of more fools though. We need to become engaged and make the system we have work like it’s supposed to.”
BINGO … you have it!!!! California went crazy with all their money propositions to the point where they have cut back considerably.
From what I can see in Washington State, both the State Government as well Municipal government are close to working out the more direct democracy tools. We have a long way to go, especially in PG where we have taken a step backward one more time.
I have been involved with volunteering with City “advisory” groups for decades. They have been disbanded and their input has been totally eradicated. At one time, each committee had a Councillor sitting on them. They gave some sort of excuse for too much influence to get rid of them.
I am really getting too tired of it all to care. I vent here because I still have a voice, although rather meaningless in this venue. At least my fingers get lots of exercise and I keep researching to keep up with a few things here and there.
There are a few people who could start a ratepayers group. But, I look at the picture of the audience sitting at the meeting of such a group in North Bay and wonder why it looks like virtually everyone is 55-60+. It’s the same age group which goes out to vote.
Given the elected officials complete disregard for the electorate once in office it is no wonder the voter turnout during civic elections is dismal.
With only 52% voting provincially in the last election it has become abundantly clear to most people voting is a waste of time as once in office the electorate is totally ignored and abused.
People just plain give up.
“Perhaps it is time for various neighborhoods to organize themselves into groups that can communicate with Council members AND perhaps with other political levels”
Been there, done that. Community services at City Hall had community groups all over the city that met regularly to get news of what is happening in recreation, parks, planning, etc. They met at the neighbourhood elementary schools and discussed issues important to the local community. The last one I attended dealt with the plan for the development of the west side of the Moore’s Meadow area with housing for seniors, etc. etc. Perhaps 20- years ago ….. of course other new areas are being given the go ahead without services … so much for the concept of infill.
I suspect that the only one that is still relatively active is the one in the crescents.
Maybe we should go back to the ward system, at least then the voters got to elect one person who was from their own area. Since we lost the ward system we have seen the inner city become less & less important as most of the elected and administration don’t live in the inner city. Examples of the loss – St Ft George just becoming a road from point A to B when before it was a village, moving the drug trade, pimps, etc. into the Miller addition and Connought areas.
I think South Fort George is the most neglected area of this City by virtue of its location potentially being one of the most sought after in this City. A dollar invested wisely there by the City would return twice as much as a dollar invested in most other places in the City.
The solution to our problem is relatively simple, and that is, that our elected Councillors and Mayor should look after all the needs, and wants, of all the taxpayers, business’s etc; in Prince George.
The problem is they don’t. If you care to look at what actually transpires in this City you would see very quickly that the Mayor and Council is 100% behind the business groups, and give very little if any representation to the average taxpayer.
So, we need these Councillors, and the Mayor to change their ways, and get some honest representation.
Having citizen groups, getting petitions, running alternative approval process’s and taking the City to court, should give them some sense that the system is broken, and favours vested interest groups only.
It would be great if Council would take the Bull by the Horns, and fix this problem themselves, as they are already elected, and in place to do so. Not selling Pine Valley Golf Course, and backing away from the Haldi Road issue would be a good place to start.
The alternative is for citizens to continue to fight City Hall, which Im sure they would sooner not do.
These Councillors are there to represent all citizens of the City and its time they started to do so.
Fair Equity in Taxation, and distribution of funds, is key to a good, forward looking community.
Have a nice day.
The trouble is Pal the home owners carry 53% of the tax load and they have become so pissed off that they no longer vote and the business comunity has a vested right in electing the councilors that will provede for them and to hell with the home owner.
As long as the majority do not vote we will have a scewed represntation at City hall. When we tried to set up a tax Payers association there was no responce.
This morning when I saw them working on the the top end of Massey Drive that is used mostly by dog owners I almost gave up my breakfast. But who cares our home is sold and my wife and I are heading for Abbotsford. There are many town homes for sale there for 250 and less. So come and join us at Ascot Hill in Abby.
Cheers
Retired; I wish I could go with you and your Wife, you are lucky to afford to leave our City. It has been ruined by all the do gooders. Abbottsford has no services for the drugies, they do not have Needle Vans driving around residential areas. I think all of these types of people are coming here as they get treated so well. Sunday a downtown dept. store had a attempted robbery at gun point. Its time we started asking some questions like who are these people??
Remember when they were people given a bus ticket to PG from the Abbottsfords of this province.
“Make an ass of yourself and see the world for free” was the motto.
Is there any money in this year’s budget for sidewalks? Like fixing some of the impassable ones and constructing some new ones in areas that have too much traffic for pedestrians to share the street with speeding motorists?
No? That’s what I suspected! Dang!
Do you think the pedestrians are any safer in sharing the streets with non speeding motorists?
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