I recently visited a friend Gary that lives in Red Deer and noted his home was similar to mine. Turns out his is valued at $40,000 more than mine. I asked him what his property taxes were and he says $1300 a year… I pay $2600 not including utilities.

Far as I can tell Red Deer has all the amenities that PG has but a far better park and river front trail system. A world class trail system that would take weeks to fully explore. Boulevards are all well kept and almost impossible to find anywhere that isn’t maintained like a park.

He complained about his property tax bill, but almost fell off his chair when I told him what I was paying.

Everyone sems to forget that Prince George has winter. The only place in Western Canada to experence this, at least that is what scarry Sharri and the rest of the town clowns want us to buy.

Not trying to be devils advocate here….but just look at the differences in population. Surrey has what? Half a million people. Red Deer is closer to PG in population but serves a much larger population base. I would think that their tax revenue is much higher than Prince George, but that is just speculation…

If you want the amenities then you’ve got to pay the price….

I live in Vernon BC and our taxes are much cheaper here as well. In 2009 our house here was valued at around 10,000 less then the house we owned in PG when we moved here.

Our house taxes for PG with the grant in 2009 were around $2802.00 and our home was valued at $298,600.

Our home in Vernon with the grant had taxes of around $1100 for the same year and our home was valued around 289,900.

This year we are slated to save about $1600 on the difference between PG and Vernon.

We are NOT charged the “Sunshine Tax” as it doesn’t really exist. We get the sun for free… LOL…

Someone has to pay for all the dumb moves by city hall. Just look at the the way city hall treats our tax dollars.
15 million dollars for infrastructure to purchase heat from Lakeland mills. Purchase the old PG hotel and clean up the site costing the taxpayer millions and then leasing the land to the province for a buck a year. Winter games that are sucking us dry. Trips to China. Twinning of the city. And then of course we had Stolz’s dike for 10 million that fortunately got turned down by hard work of the citizens.
Just look at the weeds growing along the roads, unkempt boulevards, unsweep streets, broken curbs, air pollution, grunge downtown, and it is no wonder people are upset at the continual waste taking place with our tax dollars.

There is another city that comes to mind in regards to poor civic management. Just look at the city of Detroit in the US. Once a thriving hub and economic powerhouse but years of fiscal ineptitude and neglect has brought that place down to 3rd world status in some neighbourhoods.

Is Prince George headed down the same road?

There are so many things that this City does wrong that one does not know where to start.

Even as we complain about the present level of taxes, the City (behind the scenes) is laying plans for another major project ie; the Performing Arts Centre. The City’s portion of the PAC will be around $15 Million which will probably include donating the land. Operation costs will be in the area of $400,000.00 per year, if we can use Nanaimo as an example.

We used up a bunch of our gas tax money to build the Community Energy System, and also borrowed against this fund, so we will receive less for years to come.

Just drive by the new Police Station at 4th and Victoria and you will see beyond a doubt how your tax dollars are being wasted.

The City built a state of the art, garbage disposal system on Quinn St., and then closed it down. They would have you believe that closing it down saves the City some $260,000.00 per year, however they have not factured in the cost of building it in the first place. In other words even though it costs huge dollars to build once they close it, it has no value. In addition there is a huge cost in gas, etc; for citizens to drive to the Foothills Landfill. This of course is no cost to the City, and is therefore ignored.

They want to sell off Pine Valley Golf course that with a little effort could generate revenue for the City. By selling this land for development, the best they could hope to do would be to generate enough revenue from taxes to pay the operating costs of the PAC. Money from the sale of the land would probably go toward construction. So no gain there.

There are many more cases of seriously bad money management, and poor management in general at City Hall. The question is, how much longer are we going to allow them to con us???

In 2010 the average house in Surrey was valued at $531,813 which was taxable at $3,572

In the same year, the average house in Prince George was valued at $200,288, which was taxable at $3,037.

On average, or on total of let us say of 30,000 residential single homes the City of Surrey collected 17+% more property tax than Prince George.

PG is 99th on the list from the lowest average tax paid by Slocan. Other than Chilliwack, every other community on the list that pays less average tax is a smaller community than Prince George. Put another way, all other cities the size of PG or larger pay more tax per home on average than PG.

THAT is one of the main reasons why we cannot afford the things other cities can.

Please people start to become a bit more literate in these types of simple things, you may lead a happier life with considerable less bitchin’ for no reason!!!

http://www.buyric.com/vancouver/2011/12/bc-residential-home-property-tax-cost-comparison-2010-288/4957

Palopu … giove it a break … you of all people should understand the false premise the letter is based on. The fello had a below average house in Surrey and bought an above average house in PG.

Very simple and should be at least obvious to anyone who has owned houses in different communities.

Pretty soon everyone will be moving and they won’t have anyone to con. I have been hearing about a LOT of people either moving or really thinking about it.

When I drove over the road, I got to see many places. Of all the places I have been 2 stand out as being very simaler in size and population, and both happen to be in Alberta. The two city’s are Red Deer and Medicine Hat. The biggest difference in Medicine Hat is the temperature, being as it is classified as a desert. For Red Deer it is access to 2 large city’s not too far away(1 1/2 hrs away to both Edmonton and Calgary). One difference that both city’s have in common is they are both on busy highways, Medicine Hat being on hwy 1 and Red Deer being on hwy 2. Being on the major highways means more access to products and at cheaper prices. Also Alberta does not have a sales tax like BC, so you are just paying federal sales tax. I don’t know about the other taxes like income tax differences, but if I could afford to, as moving can get VERY expensive, I would move to Alberta myself, probably around the Red Deer area. The only other area I considered was out around the Toronto area, but from what I gathered it would be an increase in expenses, for not much gain.

I suggest they move to Wells. In 2010, the average house price there was $59,622 with a tax of $1,378.

They could put the rest of the money into gold, and go panning for more right there. ;-)

Did any of you complainers look to where the City taxes go. I was a little surprised to see 1/3 going to police and firefighters. Did any of you look to see what those cheaper Cities pay for these services?

I keep thinking a City the size of PG does it really need 4 full time Fire Halls? The distance between the fire hall on 5th Ave vs the one downtown is what….2 KM’s maybe. I’m sure we could go down to 3 fire houses and nobody would notice the difference……..but I’m sure the City would save a bundle.

My brother and his wife visited us from Yellowknife last weekend. We drove around town to show them our city. As we drove by the new police station, the comment was “What the hell is that thing? A cop shop, SERIOUSLY???”

He was fascinated to see the condition of our roads, and a bit shocked at our taxes and utilities, since well Yellowknife is also a ‘winter’ city. It has better roads, but fewer civic palaces to commend it. I look forward to seeing his place and city when we visit next year.

As per Gus’s comment.
I think we need pictures of the average house in PG for $200,000.00 dollars and the average house in Surrey for $500,000.00 dollars.
There just might be a big difference in the quality and size of the houses.
PG has a lot of mobile home parks which no doubt skews the average cost of a home in PG downward.
Kind of like comparing the taste of apples and oranges.

My biggest “concern” in the increase on my taxes is that we are getting less services for a whole lot more taxes. We seem to be getting less plowing, less boulevard and park maintenance, less garbage dumps, etc, etc.
I understand that taxes must go up to keep up with inflation, but mine are going up without an upkeep in services.
IMO, it is much more important to maintain our existing infrastructure, than to build more. Only once what we have is maintained properly, and the debt is paid down,should we consider building more (PAC).

The City is spending $15 million per year in interest to service debt, but they don’t seem to show anywhere how much they are spending to repay the principal on this debt, what the amortization rate is, etc.

Interest rates are pretty low–I’m guessing that the principal portion is far larger than the interest.

What I’m getting at is that a lot more of our taxes are going to servicing debt that it shows on the City budget.

I typed up a long response to MWKs suggestion that we reduce the number of fire halls in town, but it disappeared. In short – this is a ridiculous suggestion that should not (and will not) ever happen. Those two halls, despite the relatively short (4 km) distance between them, receive the highest number of calls and serve to back each other up in the case of multiple calls.

MacLeans should run this issue, Worst Run City or town in Canada.

Here is another waste of money, the trendy hybrid/electric toys some city bureaucrat got the city(taxpayer) to pay for so he could add these to his toybox.

We can argue this tax thing seven ways from Sunday, however at the end of the day the fact is we are way to big for our britches.

Surrey BC has a population of 468,251 people (last census) and an area of 122.17 sq miles. Prince George has a population of 76,868 people and an area of 122.88 sq miles.

Surrey population being compressed within the area, while Prince Georges population is spread out all over hell, is the basic reason that we have these huge administration, and maintenance, infrastructure costs.

To me its pretty obvious that we need to find a formula to have the Province help with the costs of running the City of Prince George. The Province and the City of Prince George were instrumental in creating this huge land based City, assuming that the population would grow. It didn’t and we are stuck with a huge mess.

In true political fashion the Province and the City, pretend that this problem has nothing to do with them, and that by increasing taxes we can somehow solve the problem. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

The other alternative is to return to the size of the City prior to amalgamation in 1972, and return the other areas back to the Province and the Regional District.

Time for us to grow up and face some realities. We cannot solve these problems by doing what we are doing. We need to try something different.

Pretending that the City will grow, is not an option. We have the past 20 years to show that this is not happening. There is nothing to indicate it will happen in the next 20 years.

Do we have the people and politicians to take on such a huge task, and actually solve this problem. At this point in time, I would have to say, they do not even understand the problem, let alone have the ability to solve it.

What about the money we pay to the Regional District, not counting garbage. Years ago anyone living outside the City had to pay a user fee for the Library, pool, etc. Now they don’t and the reason is that the Regional District pays money towards the upkeep. But the City is the largest tax payer to the RDFFG, so is it just a shell game and the City taxpayers are really the only ones paying for the upkeep.

Another waste of tax dollars, the tennis courts, they have been built by the City twice and now they want to move them again at more cost. I am not against the tennis courts, I am against that the City keeps moving them.

“they have been built by the City twice and now they want to move them again at more cost.”

Its because the city pays no attention to their own Official Community Plan. They spend countless hours and money preparing an OCP and then change it at whim. The city needs a strategic plan that is followed through consistently and not swayed by certain interest groups.

“The other alternative is to return to the size of the City prior to amalgamation in 1972,”

This is exactly what the Haldi folks will do.The promised services were never provided and the current infrastructure is now jeopardized by the rezoning to allow for institutional use.

oh izzyd you make it sound like getting rid of a firehouse would cause there to be mass chaos in the streets. Those high number of calls that you are referring to are generally first responder calls for things that we would normally associate with ambulances. I don’t think the firefighters are to blame here they are doing a good job. The problem lies in the amount of labour needed to get that firetruck to the scene vs another ambulance.

Check out the hourly going rate for a firefighter vs the hourly rate for an ambulance worker.

I checked online and it seems like the avg ambulance worker makes about $21.28/hr vs the firefighter at $24.50/hr.

Then consider that if an ambulance shows up there are usually 2 people. Then think about the firetruck that shows up and probably has at least 4 people in the truck.

So that’s $43/hr vs $98/hr to respond to the same scene. Then how much does an ambulance cost vs a firetruck………..I think I arrest my case. 3 fire houses vs 4 and get another ambulance to pick up the slack would save a bundle.

I think O250 should write an article where they somehow combine gas prices and property tax rates into the same story. I’m sure I would hear the heads exploding all the way on this side of the continent.

I also think that people should exercise their free will and move if they really believe they are getting the shaft in PG.

Another question I have is if people truly want to improve PG as a community, do they think that they can do it by paying less in average costs than the communities above PG on that link that gus provided?

Here’s a hint, YOU CAN’T . . .

Who cares what your home’s assessed value is? Whether it’s $10,000, $100,000, or $1 Million, the City will extract the taxes it needs to sustain itself.

If you want to move to Surrey for the cheaper taxes, spend $500K and buy a small house there.

And that is why council should be saying “no tax-break” for the logistics park.

NMG…..I was just listening to Toronto sports talk….they are having a blast making fun of the Red-Blacks name.

Surrey…. no way JB. Apparently they have a crime problem.

“Who cares what your home’s assessed value is? Whether it’s $10,000, $100,000, or $1 Million, the City will extract the taxes it needs to sustain itself”

Exactly!

JohnnyBelt. What does the term **sustain itself** mean. Does is mean continuing to have a bloated fire department, ;police dept, City staff and workers??? When does it end.

A 2% increase in the salaries and benefits to City workers per year over the next 10 years will have a huge effect on our taxes.

Do you really believe that the Citizens of Prince George will continue to get sufficient increases in salaries to cover the huge cost of running this City??? Highly unlikely.

Something has to be done quickly. We already know that the average Government worker gets 36% more in salaries and benefits than the same job in the private sector. Sooooooo, Where does it end.???

Yeah, it’s not a popular name at all. Apparently it is supposed to represent the tradition of the colours red and black in Ottawa’s history and if you watch the promo video, it makes more sense. That said, it’s still a little unorthodox.

At the end of the day, it will all come down to how they perform on the field. The name isn’t THAT bad that it should stop people from buying tickets if they are a football fan. I mean really, is it any worse than the Anaheim Ducks or the Cleveland Browns? People would probably faint if they said they were going to rename the 67’s and is that name really that far off the RedBlacks? I can’t wait for that development to be ready!

Palopu. What does the term **average Government worker** mean ;)

“JohnnyBelt. What does the term **sustain itself** mean. Does is mean continuing to have a bloated fire department, ;police dept, City staff and workers??? When does it end.”

Yeah, and the City is still in the golf business to boot. Oops, I forgot, you support that.

For the most part though, I do agree that the City could cut staff by 10% and you wouldn’t notice much.

For all the talk about Core reviews, I still haven’t seen many dramatic changes in the way things are run.

NMG. **Government Worker** is an oxymoron.

Not sure why a supposed reasonable person would publish a letter like this, other than to make a public fool of the author.

It’s full of factual errors and silly misplaced anger and poor assumptions.

Taxes did rise by 3.5% overall. If you actually read the documents on the City website, you would see this. Taxes and utilities are separate. The City was also upfront about the amount and nature of the utility increase, which again, if you’d read any of the documents that accompanied that announcement you’d have realized it was long overdue. A mistake of prior Councils, that is just being corrected now. Hold on to your hat, because it’s going to rise sharply again.

BC Assessment and the City are not related. If your assessment went up $33k and your actual market value went down as you claim, for an overvaluation of $X, and you didn’t fight it, then you’re just dumb or lazy and you have nobody to blame for that but yourself. Let’s say for the sake of argument, that your assessment was $50k over market, then you just paid ~$450 for nothing. It’s your job to make sure your assessment is fair. They give plenty of time to challenge the assessment so you have no excuses. If you don’t do that, then you’re just throwing your own money down the drain.

My actual increase for 2013 is quite small. My home value went up $5,400, which made perfect sense to me. Actually, a case could be made for it being under assessed, but I’m not about to alert anyone about that until it’s time to sell the home. When I factor out my assessment increase, my net municipal tax increase was $31.48 or 1.79% (my home value is very close to the representative home value for PG. So, to get a little perspective, I’d suggest you multiply the municipal mil rate against your 2012 assessed value for 2013 & 2012 and then see where you come out.

For a whole host of reasons, you can’t compare Surrey and Prince George. If standards were applied to both mil rates to make them comparable, I think you might be quite surprised at that result.

You should have investigated home and insurance costs before you came here and factored that into your decision making. I certainly would have. As for people who feel the need to live in $400k + homes in PG, I have little sympathy for you. Pay up, shut up, or move.

Bang on, Sine. Great post.

Someone wanted to see what “comparable average” houses looked like in PG and Surrey. I found a couple that would come close, in my opinion.

These two houses are close to comparables as far as size and style goes, both with single car garage. Both have been renovated since built about 30 years ago, both on typical residential lot in suburban subdivision.

http://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/British-Columbia/Northern-British-Columbia/Prince-George/Prince-George-City-SouthWest/Charella-Starlane/4221-Baker/32696915.html

$274,000 – 4bedrms – 3 baths – 2,126sf – built 1982 – charella/starlane – 4221 baker –assessment for 2013 is $251,000 which I understand is very close to the average house assessment in PG.

http://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/British-Columbia/Vancouver-Coast-Mountains/Surrey/Fleetwood/15512-85a-Avenue-Surrey/32320125.html

$539,900 – 4 bedrms – 2 baths – 1,771sf – built 1979 – Fleetwood – which I suspect is slightly under the average house assessment in Surrey.

For $250,000 In Surrey you are looking at an on ground strata with around 1,200 sf, 2 to 3 bedrms, 1 to 2 baths.