I think the city is starting to worry about taxpayers in PG. We’re fed up and starting to band together when the city tries to pull anymore BS. I think it started with the River Road Dike project, and has continued with Haldi Road residents taking the city to court (twice now!), Pine Valley supporters coming out in full force, and who knows what next. Everyone putting “Children Playing” signs on their lawn?
Now they’re just going to start rushing everything through and not giving us time to prepare. I can’t make it Monday, we have people off on vacation (out of town) and no way I can leave work. Well planned on the city’s part if their goal was as few taxpayers attending as possible.

The City doesn’t seem to want to make any decisions. Anything that’s proposed is met by vocal opposition from some special interest group.

This is the problem when you let the mob rule.

“At the very least, shouldn’t the citizens of Prince George have the opportunity for proper input into the magnitude of these user fee increases and other proposed changes?”

The City should say, “Either we raise user fees or we raise your taxes… your choice.”

People want low user fees, premium services, and low taxes.

The oportunity to have a say comes on voting day. If we don’t let the leaders lead, we will be stuck in analysis paralysis for 3 years until the next voting day comes around.

Its a shame that more notice was not given to the public on this special meeting. The Monday morning meeting is not a committee of the whole meeting, it is a special meeting of council where decisions will be made that will potentially have a multiple year impact on the citizens of PG such as a huge increase of user fees at arenas, pools, transit, etc.

JohnnyBelt. This has nothing to do with mob rule. What we are dealing with here is inept politicians, and city administrators. They have caused all the financial problems over the past 20 years, and as a result have driven us to the edge of bankruptcy. Their solution is more of the same. Increase taxes, user fee’s, license fee’s, etc; while maintain their high salaries, and great working conditions.

This City has basically put us into a deep hole that we may not be able to get out of, and strangely enough not one Politician, or City Administrator, or Manager, has ever taken any responsibility for this bloody mess.

The number of failed projects, or for lack of a better word **stupid** projects in beyond believe, however they continue to do the same things, the same way, and expect a different result. (Insanity comes to mind)

As boring as it might be I am going to list a number of not so great decisions or projects made by the City over the past 20 years, that have basically done us in.

1. The Cameron St. Bridge could have been repaired for a mere $750,000.00. The City opted to build a new bridge, put in a round a bout, and bridge McMillan Creek. Cost approx. $11 Million of which at least $6 Million was borrowed, and will have interest charges over 20 years.

2. The City purchased property on the North side of River Road for their dike project, before they had the approval to borrow the money to build the dike. As a result they didn’t get the approval and are now the proud owners of a bunch of property that they should not have bought. God only knows how much they paid for this property, however it was a substantial amount.

3. The City purchased the property at 4th and Scotia for its Community Energy System, which was then relocated to Lakeland Mills because of the protests from residents of the Millar Addition and PACHA (pollution). The City still owns this property, and owned it when they decided to build the police station.

4. The City paid $2.75 Million for the property at 4th and Victoria for the Police Station even though they owned property all over town that would have been sufficient for this project.

5. The Police station itself will cost us $38 Million plus interest over 20 years, for a total cost of some $80 Million dollars. We could have renovated the present station for somewhere around $5 Million and everything would be just fine.

Palopu: “This has nothing to do with mob rule. What we are dealing with here is inept politicians, and city administrators.”

It’s all of the above. We have had inept leadership bending over backwards to accommodate every special interest group. So in effect, nothing gets done, or everybody gets accommodated… which is very expensive.

I agree that bad decisions have put us in the hole that we’re in. The only question, is, how do we get out? What is the City’s debt re-payment plan, and how do they balance that with the core needs of the Community?

Keeping a golf course open for a minority of people is just one in a string of bad decisions, when hard choices must be made, even if they upset a few people.

Contracting out the operation of the pool and Civic Centre is probably another idea which will be shot down. What about City staff reductions? Etc. etc.

I agree with your points 1-5 above.

6. The City bought the Prince George Hotel for $2 Million and gifted it to the Province for the Wood Innovation Building. Who will pay the operating costs and maintenance on the building?? Better still, who in Prince George actually wanted this building other than Politicians, and Administrators ?? Certainly not the average taxpayer.

7. $15 Million dollars for the Winter Games. What a crock. They should have gone to Kamloops, and we could have gone their to watch. Why would we spend this money on the games when we are broke??

8. The transfer station at 18th an Quinn has been closed down, even though it cost us a fortune to build. Now we have to drive all the way to foothills, while the transfer station sits idle. I suppose at some point they will take out the concrete and fill the hole.

9. The City’s portion of the Boundry Road project was $6 Million . These people are now looking to the City for tax exemptions to help them sell this property. When will we see a return in tax dollars on this investment.??

10. The Citys portion of the Airport Runway Expansion was approx. $3 Million. This project started in 2007, completed in 2009, and we have yet to see one red cent generated by a $36 Million expenditure. Who is responsible for this fiasco???

11. The City built new offices at 18th and Ospika for their purchasing and maintenance people. Cost $3 Million (borrowed). We are now the proud owners of a purchasing building, office building, and City yard, at the East end of 3rd Avenue that has been left to rot by the City, and looks like it should be in Chernoble.

12. The Community Energy System cost the City $3 Million (borrowed) and was a basket case from the get go.

Lurking in the back ground is the proposed Performing Art Centre which will cost $45 Million of which the Citys portion will be approx. $15 Million. This money will be obtained through land sales, including the tearing down of the Playhouse Theatre, and the sale of the land. The operating cost and maintenance of the building will be in the area of $500,000.00 per year. Why would we entertain such a building, when we are in dire straights??

There is more but you get my drift. We pay huge dollars to politicians and administrators to look after our interests, however they seem incapable of doing so.

The best they have been able to do so far, is increase taxes, user fee’s and license fee’s.

We expect more, and are entitled to more.

Will we get it??

We are now in the process of making long term decisions based on a less than professional report from KPMG on the Core Review, a new City Administrator, who has yet to get her feet wet.

It seems like this whole process is totally out of control.

During the election campaign the Mayor stated that she would reduce costs across the board by 10%. That is what she should have done. She should have had the City Manager, and other Managers find the 10% in their various budgets. There is absolutely no doubt that this could be done.

Staff reductions could have been done through attrition along with other cost cutting measures. The City of Abbotsford did their own Core Review and saved $250,000.00 in consulting fee’s. One of the biggest savings was a reduction in Management positions, I believe they got rid of 7/8 Managers for an annual savings of $2 Million per year.

We don’t need to sell off our assets to solve this problem. These assets are necessary for a City like Prince George (Winter City). We need the Pine Valley Golf Course. It costs little to run and will in the not to distant future return a profit to the City.

Selling our assets to private developers, or going the Private, Public, Partnership route, is a road to disaster.

The snake oil salesmen are sharpening their knives waiting for us to fall, so that they can move in and skin us.

Time for the people of Prince George to stand up and be counted.

I strongly urge those who can make it to attend the morning session of the Citys special meeting, to show them that we are in fact listening and watching, and that we expect them to solve these problems in a sane and mature manner.

” This money will be obtained through land sales”
So the city buys property it doesnt need nor can afford and then sits on them until everyone forgets about it. Then sells them and buys / builds new things with the sudden “surplus” cash. Im going to try that with motorcycles… If I buy up 5 or 6 on credit then when I sell them I can tell the wife its ok for me to get a new one because of all the free money I suddenly have – its a perfect plan!

“The City doesn’t seem to want to make any decisions. Anything that’s proposed is met by vocal opposition from some special interest group. This is the problem when you let the mob rule.”

??? Certainly you must be thinking about some other city than Prince George, because I am being hit continuously in the pocket by a never ending stream of decisions (by the City of Prince George) to raise my home owner taxes, user fees for water and sewer and so forth. There isn’t anything left which hasn’t been increased by the city, often more than once!

Mob rule? Very disrespectful and quite elitist, imho.

JB wrote: “The City should say, “Either we raise user fees or we raise your taxes… your choice.””

We have still not tackled the question whether the City is running effective departments. In my mind that is what the review should have been about.

No one is doing that. THAT is my concern. Until we do that, and until we have some good comparative information with what sectors of the operations cost in comparable community for comparable quality, how the heck can ANYONE determine whether we should be raising taxes or cutting services? It is like flying blind.

They cannot even do something as simple as that.

As I keep saying, they have a mindset that needs to be changed.

And, on top of that JB, it is mindsets like yours which support them.

“And, on top of that JB, it is mindsets like yours which support them.”

Mindsets like what, exactly? I do believe I mentioned looking at City staff levels in this thread and have mentioned City efficiencies in other posts.

Once again, I have failed to please the almighty gus. Whatever shall I do…

Job:
You may be failing to please the wonderfully eloquent all knowing Gus, but you should remain the foil. Without a foil, he would just be spitting in the wind.
There cannot be a debate without the tree sides of an argument.

Cheese

Stupid autocorrect
Job=jb
“tree sides”=three (3)sides

“You may be failing to please the wonderfully eloquent all knowing Gus, but you should remain the foil.”

I’m sure there are many other foils gus can focus his efforts on, I’m not sure why he’s picked me. Maybe he should google ‘foils’. Maybe there are some foils in Bellingham or Kitchener? ;-)

…or maybe it’s my stubborn refusal to see things his way. He’s not the only one. lol.

Interest rates are going up… they say 7-8% in the next 2-3 years. With a doubling of the interest payments all the core review revenue will be for not. The city is already bankrupt, just waiting for the monetary reality to catch up is all.

The people of PG should stand our ground on no new debt. We should be seeking ways of reducing existing debt before rates go up further.

Gus. With regard to your comment “We have still not tackled the question whether the City is running effective departments. In my mind that is what the review should have been about.”

I believe you meant to say EFFECTVE and efficient, (a phrase you have used in the past, and it is a good one). I think when the economic pain gets a little more severe for the masses this is going to be the key question citizens are going to be asking all of their governments.

“EFFECTIVE”. I really have to start using the spelling checker more often.

I am sorry but I have to say something here. I have lived over the past 30 years in the Lower Mainland, Okanagan, Kootenays, the Island and now PG for my job, and each being multiple years living and being an active member of the community. I have not seen a city with such inept management and elected officials, ever. Allowing new infrastructure on the edge of town when existing roads and servicing is failing, selling public lands just to make that years budget work, basically an internal conflict of interest scandal that no one is talking about with Judy K. and her husband regarding the land that was purchased from the city for the Wood Innovation and Design Centre (which I actually think is the best thing this city has going for it right now), it all truly boggles my mind, and thank my god I am able to move eventually. PG has spread its self far too thin over the years and continues to do so, too many large projects with borrowed money, no sense of building a central culture or identity to attract people (no wonder there was that report that only foreign workers will move here), a mayor that set a municipal record for $$/vote, and SOME councilors who are only there for their own personal gain. PG has made its bed over the past years by failing to strategically plan what should and should not be allowed or done, it has all been a free for all in the wild west facilitated by an inept city hall. I really can’t describe where all the failures have occurred because they are so systemic now.

I will end on the good however. The citizens of PG will need to make a serious effort, but also sacrifice, to establish PG as a vibrant, inclusive, and economically resilient city, that may even mean buckling down and raising some taxes, but that will need to be brought forward by the people to pay for what needs to be done to get PG out of the hole its dug. The region is Absolutely beautiful, the city is not, and thus the opportunity to beautify, bring up property values and help offset lost tax money. That way then we would all have and interest in making the city better. STOP expanding and spreading too thin, we just can’t afford new roads. Traffic is amazingly light here (except maybe for 97 north into the heart (but that was because too much development there was done with no planning on its impact), thus no new roads with ALL the added costs should be an automatic no. This makes great economic sense too, less road maintenance and less plowing costs. Bring in more condos and apartments along major routes to help pay for the existing and failing roads/infrastructure. And finally get rid of that Mayor and the selfish councilors in the next election, they are too short sided and one track minded, We need integration of ideas, progressive policies to build PG as a destination and a community to be welcomed in. The main reason people seem to live hear is because of cheap living and higher than average wages, but the true success of a city will come when people want to live here for other reasons, and will take a pay cut to do so. Then you know you have something. Go see other successful communities around BC, Nanaimo, Surrey (they have done great things in building their city), Penticton, Vernon, Kamloops (basically our sister city and competition), Cranbrook, Mission, Langford, they have embraced what hey have and building integrated solutions. Best of luck.

Gus, your last post was bang on. It is hard to believe that the City has not looked at how it is being run by its various departments. One area I believe would save the taxpayers a good sum of money is staff development (e.g. trips to other cities to train). I know staff members who travel to the same types of conferences every year. Clerical staff travelling to train?