“It is time for us to make some decisions” says Mayor Green as the examination of the 120 page report on recommendations from the Core review got underway. “

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The sooner that decisions are made, the more time they’ll have to let the inevitable outrage die down before the next election.

I’d still like to hear how the City plans to pay down the debt. You never hear about that. Maybe it won’t be their problem after the next Municipal election.

They plan on paying down the debt by raising taxes and fees so high that people leave PG. that way less roads to maintain, garbage to pick up etc. what. Council

Ditto PVal…exactly

It is my understanding that the proposal to hike fees and taxes is to bring what we pay more in line with what it costs… nothing to do with paying down debt.

How do we know that the City of PG’s debt levels are unsustainable? Has anyone done an actual analysis coupled with short, medium and long term projections?

What does the debt load look like when compared to peer communities? What about on a per capita basis? What about compared to other “regional centres” where the city has to provide above average levels of service instead of freeloading off of major urban centres (and their tax base) that are within a reasonable distance?

Do people realize that debt isn’t necessarily a bad thing? It certainly can be bad if you can’t service it and its not being used effectively, but if it’s providing a return greater than it’s cost, then it’s a much different analysis. Has anyone done THAT analysis?

Other regional centres as far as I can tell are racking up debt just as bad as PG is. We certainly aren’t alone with respect to debt. What I don’t see are long term plans with respect to getting rid of it.

Another thing we are not unique in is that we as taxpayers aren’t paying the true cost of maintaining and operating all of the City’s infrastructure. That needs to change. The City needs to manage less, imo.

At the end of the day, it’s a whole lot sexier to do ribbon cutting ceremonies rather than paying down the City credit card. That’s been the approach of the last three mayors at least.

“The City needs to manage less”

Sounds great, but then who is going to manage the needed services? IMHO, municipalities are getting the shaft in many cases because they are being asked to do things that USED to be managed by the Provincial and Federal Governments.

I guess one could make an argument that many of these services aren’t “needed”, but then all you’ll see is the quality of life for the average citizen decline. That’s hardly a noble or desirable outcome for one of the most advanced countries in the world, one that other countries aspire to become more like.

Has anyone actually analyzed how much the reduction in federal transfer payments to the provinces (and thus the reduction in transfer payments from the provinces to municipalities) is actually costing cities and citizens? Is it possible that these reductions are joined at the hip to reductions in income tax rates over the past decade and a half?

Perhaps people should start to think about the long term consequences of saving $800 on their income tax bill? It’s great to use that dough for a trip to Mexico, but if it means you are out $1,200 on front end repairs because your city can’t fix their roads, what have you gained?

Then again, corporations don’t drive now do they ;)

Its easy for the City to blame the Feds, and Province for reductions in transfer payments, however lets see some specific cases where we have been given less money.

We do get a gas tax transfer from the Feds, and of course we get the money from the BC Lottery Corp. plus we get over $1 Million a year for the fines that the RCMP assess.

All Cities debt in controlled by the amount of money they can borrow, which is a percentage of the money that they bring in. So once you add in user fee’s, lottery money, fines, taxes, etc; etc; you can then determine the maximum amount that you can borrow.

All the numbers of PG for 2013 are not in yet, however PG is getting closer to the maximum they can borrow. Once they pay off a loan then the principle and interest saved, goes into general revenue, or they borrow more money.

Seems they are always in debt, and always short for revenue on their budgets, and therefore are always raising taxes or user fee’s.

In other words they are only concerned with maintaining the status quo, because that is how they earn their living.

How come we never get to hear any flashy financial news ? Like, the Civic Centre is now paid for, or, in 2 years the Multi-Plex (CN Centre) will be paid for followed by the art gallery.

Maybe I could score a communications job with the city.

NMG……I’m a little torn with Alfie leaving but I guess millions of dollars talks.

NMG: “Sounds great, but then who is going to manage the needed services? IMHO, municipalities are getting the shaft in many cases because they are being asked to do things that USED to be managed by the Provincial and Federal Governments.

I guess one could make an argument that many of these services aren’t “needed”, but then all you’ll see is the quality of life for the average citizen decline.”

I agree with you. But can we afford the quality of life we have now? Spiraling debt levels say ‘no’. It is not fair to simply push our debt onto future generations. The system is broken, and many things need to change to ‘right the ship’. Many of the changes required will be a shock to many people, but it’s time to start living within our means. And yes, that means individuals as well as governments.

JohnnyBelt.

Give us some examples of things that USED to be done by the Feds, or Province, and that are now done by Cities.

Thanks.

The Feds and the Provinces are supposed to fund health care right? So, if they reduce funding for oh let’s say mental health services, and these people do not get the treatment they need and end up being on the streets more often and committing more crimes, would it not fall to the cities to ensure that their policing budgets can adequately deal with those pressures, pressures that have increased as a direct result of Federal and Provincial funding decisions?

It’s not always black and white Palopu ;)

NMG. Good of you to suggest that crimes are being committed by those who need mental health services. I would suggest that they account for very little of the crime.

We have sufficient Police to look after the criminal element in this City. As for looking after those who are disenfranchised I suggest to you that they are being looked after by volunteer, and charitable groups in the City. Not only do they supply them with food and clothing, but they try and direct them to the proper areas for help.

Don’t give the City credit where none is due.

Its like the Mayor, who suggests that pay parking would perhaps compel more people to use the transit facilities, while at the same time, she and others at City Hall get free parking, and drive to work each day.

Perhaps the Mayor, Council, Staff, etc; would like to lead by example, and start using our transit system, rather than directing others to do so.

What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander

“As for looking after those who are disenfranchised I suggest to you that they are being looked after by volunteer, and charitable groups in the City”

If you speak with people who used to care for people with mental health and/or substance abuse problems, they would often tell you a different story.

No doubt the volunteer and charitable groups do a commendable job, but they alone cannot manage the entire problem.

Anyway, my point was not get into a debate about mental health issues, but to point out that cities most certainly are impacted by things that they have no direct control over, but end up having to manage because of related issues.

I’m certainly no apologist for this current crew in City Council. I actually think they are running the city into the ground.

Nature abhors a vacuum and cities (states, provinces, countries) abhor a missed opportunity to have borrowed to the absolute available maximum. Their needs expand to fill the void.

Bankers love to lend money.

Build it and they will come! That’s a great strategy if your taxpayers have bought into your vision.

The leadership in this city are not doing a very good job of clarifying the vision or garnering the support of it’s stakeholders. In My Opinion.

Palopu: “Good of you to suggest that crimes are being committed by those who need mental health services. I would suggest that they account for very little of the crime.”

Most of them are either drug users/addicts or in the drug trade. They either need money to finance their habit or pay off a debt of some kind. Whether a drug addiction counts as a ‘mental issue’ is up for discussion, but I would tend to think it does.

Everitt noted that “At least when a committee’s work is done they are given the courtesy of knowing their work is done. “

Under normal circumstances one would think that this would be the case. However, abnormal stressful circumstances often overrule the expected normal.