Ben, I have been informed by a long time resident of Mackenzie that their town said no to fluoride years ago, and anecdotal evidence indicates very few problems with their teeth. I just wonder if perhaps there were indications from the communities around Prince George as to whether they have fluoride or why it’s not used, and what reasons they give.

Why wait a whole year, VOTE NOW!!!

“Fluoridation: Don’t Let the Poisonmongers Scare You”

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html

“The antis’ most persuasive argument, both to legislators and to the general public, is to call for a public vote. On the surface, this appears to be the democratic way to settle the issue. But the antis are dealing from a stacked deck. First, the people who need fluoridation the most—the children—do not vote. Second, it is not difficult to confuse voters by flooding the community with scare propaganda.”

“it is not difficult to confuse voters by flooding the community with scare propaganda.”
kinda like the HST eh? lol

“it is not difficult to confuse voters by flooding the community with scare propaganda.”
kinda like the pipeline eh? lol

hmmm – I sense a trend

“it is not difficult to confuse voters by flooding the community with scare propaganda.”

kinda like the municipal election in PG … it is definitely a trend.

oh … wait a minute …. I forgot the provincial election too … ;-)

The decision to add or not add fluoride to the water at Fish Trap Island was taken away from the residents it serves. City Council of the day was to put the issue to referendum – they circumvented that by quietly adding the fluoridation system and asking the NDP government to pass legislation protecting them from a potential lawsuit. Hansard, Wed July 29, 1998
“Hon. J. Kwan: It does not eliminate a person’s right to challenge any law, and in this instance it does not eliminate their right to challenge the law. But in all probability it would diminish their probability of winning, and that’s what this legislation will do.”
How’s that for democracy?

Hey …. can I include religious beliefs too? they sure flood the community with lots of scare propaganda.

So, Johnnybelt, what you are saying is that we in Prince George do not have the right to non-fluoridated un-medicated tap water (for drinking, bathing and cooking) as the vast majority of B.C. (97%)residents are enjoying.

So, the 97% have stupidly become victims of some anti-fluoridation propaganda?

Do you see anything wrong with that? Did you ever think that the so-called authorities that endorsed DDT, lead in paint and gasoline, and allowed smoking in hospital rooms would be proved wrong by evidence?

No, of course not.

Gotta love the “anything is OK if it means there’s a profit in it for them” gang!

PG: “So, the 97% have stupidly become victims of some anti-fluoridation propaganda?”

I think he’s got it!

From the link:

“As a public health measure, fluoridation is unusual in several ways. It is a copy of a naturally occurring phenomenon. It is supported by libraries full of articles that document its safety and effectiveness—more so than any other public health measure. It is supported by a variety of health, scientific, and civic groups that could hardly be expected to agree on any other single measure. But most significant, it is the only health measure that is often put to public vote.If you live in a community with fluoridated water, consider yourself lucky. If you do not, don’t let the poisonmongers scare you. Fluoridation is still a modern health miracle.”

Instead of having an educated opinion of their own some people cut and paste opinions of others from whatever links and post urls of links.

An ancient saying goes like this: Who is the greater fool: the one who is a fool – or the wise man who keeps arguing with a fool?

JB

Your statement that children get the most benefit but cannot vote holds no water(couldn’t resist) By this measure we should be adding MMR vaccine to the water because some parents have read an article(disproved) that says the vaccine causes autism and have chosen not to have the kids vaccinated.

The city has no right to add anything to the water other than what is necessary to make the water safe to drink.

The vast majority of the world’s health authorities and organizations support the use of fluoridation and the benefits have been documented multiple times over. The overwhelming majority of scientific study supports fluoridation.

Don’t take my word for it. Take the vast majority of scientific study. Sorry, but those are the facts. The rest is just noise.

PG: “Instead of having an educated opinion of their own some people cut and paste opinions of others from whatever links and post urls of links. “

Where did you get your ‘educated opinion’? I assume you did some sort of research on the topic. You then disregarded what the vast majority of the scientific community has said for reasons known only to you.

dihydrogen monoxide can also be toxic in large quantities. Its about the quantity.

Princegeorge DDT is not the problem its been mistakenly made out to be. Over 30 million people have died from malaria since it was banned from misinformation.

Residents including children obtain all the fluoride they need these days since it is an additive in tooth pastes most commercial drinks and some processed food products. Fluoridation is a 60s approach to a problem that no longer exists by virtue of these food and drink additives.

Fluoridation disrupts the thyroid gland impacting the ability for the brain to be properly regulated by necessary hormones. Iodine as that found in iodized salt is the best form of countering the effects of fluoride on the thyroid.

Fluoridation also causes skeletal fluorosis. In some areas, particularly the Asian subcontinent, skeletal fluorosis
is endemic. It is known to cause irritable-bowel symptoms and joint
pain.

An easy study for Northern Health would be gather up all the statistic for communities with and without fluoride and compare the levels of chronic arthritis and IQ levels (for babies born in towns with Fluoride).

I think the job of Northern Health should in part be to bring relevant studies like this to the public to assist in making informed decisions. Only when we can see the big picture correlations can we as thinking human beings make rational decisions. I believe the studies would show a direct correlation between the use of fluoride in the water and a lower IQ for children born (due to thyroid disruption during pregnancy), as well as an increased pervasiveness of skeletal fluorosis (seen most readily in levels of arthritis) and a higher than average hip fracture and joint injury pervasiveness.

Health authorities don’t like to do studies to inform the decision makers and the wider public. They don’t like anyone questioning their decisions, so those decisions are final without the proper relevant studies ever being done.

Fluoride is an example, marijuana is another example, and yes even the MMR vaccine is another example.

With the MMR vaccine. People really need to see the video AutismOne & Generation Rescue 2013, featuring Congressman Burton, Weldon, and Bill Posey, published May 11th 2013… for essentially the health scandal of the century.

Rep. Dan Burton Chaired the US House Government Reform Committee on Autism and Childhood Vaccines. Rep. Burton calls out the so called Director of the National Center on Birth Defects and Development Disabilities at the CDC… he calls her out for collaborating with Merck the companies that developed the Rotavirus vaccine since 1992, when she was supposed to be in a position of protecting children and approving vaccines as an independent third party.

So we have the Director at the CDC tasked with approving the vaccine working on the payroll of the vaccine maker… admitting this in a public Congressional hearing. Furthermore she has stonewalled Rep. Burton for over 16 years now on his simple request that she do a study to see if in fact their is a correlation between MMR vaccine and autism. She stonewalled and refused to do the study for the Congressional Chair with oversight, because it turns out she was on the payroll of the vaccine maker while also having the duel role of approving the vaccine for public consumption.

What we now know is that the regulator that approved MMR is on record saying they have never done a study to study vaccinated verse unvaccinated as it relates to autism. So any medical practitioner that tells you otherwise is not being truthful.

Whether it is fluoride or MMR vaccine… medical arrogance kills and maims otherwise healthy people more than most realize. I just recently lost a sister in law with her baby because a doctor at the childrens hospital gave her a new high blood pressure medication to an at risk pregnant mother with diabetes, with no proper monitoring afterwords. Its easy to push a pharmaceutical drug if its convenient and there is a pay reward system in place.

The roll of a public health authority should be to do those independent studies to bring facts before decision makers whether the facts line up with their decisions or not. Otherwise its all for naught.

It’s sad when people listen to celebrities like Jenny McCarthy rather than the scientific community.

Here it is… back by popular demand.

—-

Health Canada statement on fluoride in drinking water (June 23, 2011):

“Health Canada continues to strongly support water fluoridation as a safe, effective and cost effective public health measure to help prevent dental cavities.”
“The safety and efficacy of water fluoridation has been frequently studied and continues to be supported by current science, and the beneficial effects of fluoride in the prevention of dental cavities have been well documented in scientific literature. “
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/ftr-ati/_2011/2011_82-eng.php

From the US Dept. of Health:
“One of water fluoridation’s biggest advantages is that it benefits all residents of a community—at home, work, school, or play,” said HHS Assistant Secretary for Health Howard K. Koh, MD, MPH. “Today’s announcement is part of our ongoing support of appropriate fluoridation for community water systems, and its effectiveness in preventing tooth decay throughout one’s lifetime.”
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2011pres/01/20110107a.html

From the CDC:
“For 65 years, community water fluoridation has been a safe and healthy way to effectively prevent tooth decay. CDC has recognized water fluoridation as one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century. “
http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation

From the World Health Organization:
“Water fluoridation in low fluoride-containing water supplies helps to maintain optimal dental tissue development and dental enamel resistance against caries attack during the entire life span. Fluoride in drinking water acts mainly through its retention in dental plaque and saliva. Frequent consumption of drinking water and products made with fluoridated water maintain intra-oral fluoride levels. People of all ages, including the elderly, benefit from community water fluoridation.”
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/oralhealth/en/index2.html

From the Water Fluoridation Controversy Wikipedia page:
“The weight of the scientific evidence have found that at the dosage recommended for water fluoridation, the only clear adverse effect is dental fluorosis, which can alter the appearance of children’s teeth during tooth development. This effect is mildly cosmetic and is unlikely to represent any real effect on public health.[8] Despite opponents’ concerns, water fluoridation has been effective at reducing cavities in both children and adults.”
“Opposition to fluoridation has existed since its initiation in the 1940s.[1] During the 1950s and 1960s, some opponents of water fluoridation suggested that fluoridation was a communist plot to undermine public health.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy

Another good page which debunks a lot of the claims made.
“You’ll also hear the claim that fluoridation has been banned in Europe. This is also completely untrue. In Europe it’s more common to fluoridate salt instead of water, thus bringing the same benefits via a different delivery method.” …
… “Let’s turn our eye onto one such community, Arcata, an idyllic coastal hamlet in northern California, that recently won this battle after a divisive and painful fight in the newspapers and in city hall. A principal champion of the science behind fluoridation is Kevin Hoover, editor of the Arcata Eye newspaper. In answering the flood of anti-fluoridation scare tactics, Hoover said:
There are no known victims. If there was a problem with municipal fluoridation, wouldn’t we have at least a few people who showed some signs of harm after 44 years? All the anti-fluoride people could say was that the victims are “undiagnosed,” but not why. They produced no victims, just lots of dubious statistics and horror stories with no provenance.”
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4058
Canadian Cancer Society:
On the basis of current evidence, it appears unlikely that water fluoridation increases the risk of cancer, including osteosarcoma, in humans. At the same time, we know that there are many benefits to water fluoridation, especially for people who have less access to dental care.
http://www.cancer.ca/Canada-wide/About%20cancer/Cancer%20myths/Fluoride%20in%20water.aspx?sc_lang=EN

Also the senators and congressmen in the states are much more valid sources than the scientific community who are trained in methods of research like a double blind study.

Take Michelle Bachman’s statement that the HPV vaccine should no longer be given to girls because it causes mental retardation based solely on the fact that someone told her so—-good enough for me:(

Could write a book on the false info that those officials have on the reproductive system ie rape and pregnancy and how the women’s body has a way of “dealing” with it.

==========================================================

That being said the city still has no business adding chemicals to the water supply. If it is time to revisit old posts….an aspirin a day is good for heart health better add some acetylsalicylic acid to the water. Folic acid is good for fetal development need some if it too. Before long will need a knife and fork to enjoy a cool glass of water.

If the kids are not brushing properly and visiting the dentist on a regular basis the fluoride in the water is wasted anyway.

From lonesome sparrow: If the kids are not brushing properly and visiting the dentist on a regular basis the fluoride in the water is wasted anyway.

….. are you sure you want to encourage good dental hygiene when one of the studies quote by JB (wow …. JB actually has posted some studies … a miracle a day will keep the doctor away) states: Fluoride in drinking water acts mainly through its retention in dental plaque and saliva.

ya wanna keep that plaque growin ta keep dem little ole fluoride molecules workin properly … ;-)

Lonesome sparrow wrote: That being said the city still has no business adding chemicals to the water supply.

and therein lies the rub, as they say. Society changes over time.

It is for that very reason why communities and entire countries, such as Germany, are removing fluoridation systems from their water supply facilities and adding it to salt, for instance, in a similar manner that we iodize salt.

To remove fluoride from water is an expensive process. To have two different coloured salt shakers on the table is cheap.

Does not take too many brains to figure that out.

From Wikipedia, so one may wish to check this out for accuracy, but it is close enough for this purpose, in my opinion. We are hardly doing a defensible literature search here.

Artificial fluoridation of water, salt, and milk varies from country to country. Water fluoridation has been introduced to varying degrees in many countries, including Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Ireland, Malaysia, the U.S., and Vietnam, and is used by 5.7% of people worldwide.

Wow 5.7% !!!!!!!!!!

Continental Europe largely does not fluoridate water, although some of its countries fluoridate salt;

locations have discontinued water fluoridation in Germany, the Netherlands, and other countries.

Although health and dental organizations support water fluoridation in the countries that practice water fluoridation, there has been considerable opposition to water fluoridation whenever it is proposed.

Ask any dental professional and they will tell that fluoride is good on the teeth but do not swallow it! That is why they tell you to spit out your fluoride treatment. There are other things you can do for your kids to prevent them from getting cavities without giving them fluoride. Ask your dentist!

Alternatives to body health with respect to the mouth ….. as always, nutrition and food.

Caries are not the only problem. Gingivitis is as well.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2012/618314/

from that article

The maintenance of oral health can be invariably achieved by manipulating the oral microbiota toward a population of mixed species that is less likely to induce diseases such as gingivitis or caries.

Dental caries and gingivitis are the most prevalent infectious diseases of humans and are due to the accumulation of dental plaque (a bacterial biofilm) on the tooth surface and at the gingival margin, respectively.

Less than 5% of the world’s population is subjected to artificial water fluoridation, meaning that 95% do not have it! Any statement that the vast majority of the world’s health authorities support water fluoridation is complete hogwash and fictitious. Better to do the math than look like a fool!

“Any statement that the vast majority of the world’s health authorities support water fluoridation is complete hogwash and fictitious.”

Sorry to disappoint you, but they do. All you have done is cry ‘hogwash’. Where is your information? Oh yeah, most of the anti-fluoridation websites are home made blog sites.

http://www.yes4cleanwater.org/Documents/CoutriesRejectedF.pdf
interesting read countries that don’t put this stuff in their water and why! it seems that medicating the masses is unacceptable, something about rights;)

Regardless of whether flouridation is safe or not, I would like the choice on what medications go in my body. If our governments were really so interested in the dental health of vunerable populations, dental coverage would be part of the MSP and the city would have a more active poverty reduction plan. They could start by taking soda and candy out of all the community recreation facilities and offering fruit and water instead.

Yes Boudicca, there are several people on here, including me, who understand that VERY important aspect of this entire issue. And that aspect of the issue is much more important to those living in the more advanced countries who are able to make self determination of individuals a more important part of their lives.

To others on here who have little if no respect for individual rights they see the issue as a simple matter of whether there is harm.

The interesting thing is that it is quite easy to prove the positive … does fluoride act in a positive way … yes it does. I think most people would be in agreement.

Does fluoride act in a negative way. Can it be harmful if put into the water. That question is impossible to prove. All that can be said is that it has not yet proven to be harmful other than fluorosis.

So, the answer to the question, is fluoridation of water harmful to some humans, should be that it does not appear to be but we really do not know.

==================================

and you, curmudgeonscurse are bang on with dental coverage plans, poverty reduction programs, etc.