Why blame the Council for this one?

It is high time we start discussing the expert brains which are running the city.

Council depends on staff to how things are and how things will be and how to prevent certain outcomes such as sudden increases in taxes, etc.

Who on Council has such expertise? No one.

Well, perhaps we are finding out that no one at City Hall has that expertise. They talk a lot about LEEDS, about sustainability, etc. But they really do not have a clue, do they?

The only defense they seem to have is that every city in Canada and the USA is facing the same problem. Why?

Why has the most obvious thing in the world not dawned on them? Perhaps is that notion that one pays as they go or pays on credit, or lets everything simply go.

Canada is perhaps not that rich after all. Maybe we are laughing too hard when we laugh at Greece and Italy and Spain etc. when they cannot make ends meet.

We do not appear to be any better!!!

Some increases are to be expected but 47.5% is poor planning and Cameron Stoltz should have questioned this. After all it is his job. Or lack of doing his job.
Here is another topic that flew under the wire. Around June the 26th, 2013 a group of business men from China came to visit Prince George to view some properties around the airport for development opportunities. Ron Bronstein from the Provincial Major Investment Office and Heather Oland of IPG took them on the tour. Absent on this tour for the perspective investor’s from China were Shari Green, Wilbur and Hall.
Mayor Green, Hall, Wilbur took a tax paid trip to China to promote Prince George last year but do not have the capacity to meet and greet them when China comes for a visit to view development opportunities. I am not convinced this mayor and some council are doing a great job.

According to the B.C Residential Tenancy Branch, the maximum allowable rental increse over the last 4 years that a landlord can raise the rent has been 15%. How come the City can increase taxes, such as the Utility Bill with seemingly no cap, and as a tax paying citizen, I just have to pay, with absolutely no recourse except to complain? (or move outside of city limits)
Has the City ever looked at the average yearly wage increases regular people are getting now a days? It sure hasn’t been 11% per year!

“We are being told that we have suddenly found that our utilities need work, lot’s of work, and it comes with a cost. Who was asleep at the switch over the years? Many are the same Councillors, including the Mayor, who were sitting at the Council table making decisions .”

Yup. This is something that isn’t very sexy but it’s part of the core responsibility of the City and Councillors that have been all but ignored for years in favour of pie in the sky projects, China trips, and ribbon cutting ceremonies.

This city wastes so much money. Two rivers gallery, raises for city council, automated garbage disposal that was pitched to us as saving money but each year costs more and more, over priced city workers, communication officer ?? Mayors assistant? Trips to china…look at the money flowing in from that..the new rcmp buildings.. Yes remember.. 2 in recent years.. The 2015 games..$350,000 for a audit..continuing revitalization of downtown, purchasing land and having it sit there for years and years . The behind the scenes cost of the PAC that no one wants.

“The behind the scenes cost of the PAC that no one wants”

Oh, right, building a full sized model of the foyer on Victoria and Fourth ….

I don’t understand how this is a surprise to those who run this city. I put away money for home maintenance – I know my hot water tank, furnace, appliances have a limited life span and I plan for it yearly by putting away a savings fund for these items. The city should know that nothing has an unlimited life span and be planning for either repairs or maintenance and not spending money on wants instead of needs.
This goes beyond blaming current council, this has obviously been a growing problem for years that is only now bad enough that they can no longer hide it.

Just because some senior management might be in attendance at a trade show booth highlighting a particular manufacturer’s product and will speak to tire kicking merchants while in attendance, does not mean that they will be dealing with the purchase agents should they actually start to talk business some months later.

The China trip by politicians likely has a different purpose than the trip by technical people who are looking at actual locations.

“It is high time we start discussing the expert brains which are running the city.”

Agree with Gus here also. Rural residential areas that have wells and septic systems should be extremely concerned because the planning department is not taking any responsibility for their fragile infrastructure.By amending the OCP to allow for larger density in Rural residential neighbourhoods seems to be a pattern lately with Haldi Rd and now Mcquire rd. Ian Wells states that it is not the city’s problem if wells run dry or contaminated by failing sewer systems, it is Northern Health’s problem. Meanwhile the damage has been done. IMO, there is no strategic planning for the City of PG.

The sad reality is that staff have been telling PG Council for many, many years of the looming infrastructure deficit. The politians think only three years ahead, at most, and this was usually one of the easiest ways to “cut” to appear “financially prudent” to the public in hopes of their re-election.
It’s not hard to find many examples of these warnings by staff if you look back through agendas throughout the years.

When I receive my utility bills it makes my blood boil especially when they increase pretty much every six months.The city then tries to justify more increases by saying they are falling behind on looking after the very things these bills are suppose be used for.I find the city wastes stupid dollars on things such as the beautiful black iron fencing around the new cop shop.I hardly think anyone going to work in that building really needs that extravagant fencing to feel proud to go to work each and every day.

Gus.. So the trip didn’t come out of city coffers.. So no tax dollars where used..so good to know.. As for the PAC.. There is a bank account for it… They “likely” had a difference purpose… Or maybe they likely didn’t.. A nice vacation paid for by us… Guessing you are likely in favour of the PAC, new cop shops, raises for council, raises for garbage collection, purchasing land..etc.

The automated garbage pickup system was mostly about eliminating injuries to workers. It is working. Every major city (and even some smaller towns) have it so I don’t see this as having been an unnecessary expense.

However, some of the city’s garbage trucks look like complete rust buckets and are totally worn out, on their last leg and soon to be scrapped, for sure! Hold on to your wallet and watch your utility bill when they need to be replaced! Was any money put aside over the years from the garbage collection fees?

As for the city not knowing about the condition of infrastructure and now just suddenly realizing the problems – thanks for the laugh!

What is included in your utility bills? Water, sewage, garbage…?

Gus :some times your comments are pretty lame and it is evident you don’t know as much as your post and internet research appear. You used to be a tax funded employee is clear. Business 101 specially China, it is mandatory for Mayor to show up. They took it as a insult for the absence.

With an increase of 45.7% over 4 years and another 19% to come next year and the following year that will put us up to around 85% increase in 6 years and I bet the experts on council will tell your we are still below the average tax for municapalities of similar size.
I have said it before and will keep saying that it is not the fed’s or provincial govt’s breaking us, it is the idiots at city hall that donot care as long as they receive there inflated salaries.
Also I noticed that the utility bill showed if I pay before due date I get my discount.That’s what they will get.

Seems to me that the Performing Arts Centre initially got $10,000.00 in seed money from the City, and later got an additional $100,000.00 from IPG, to work on getting a PAC for the City.

At the end of the day this is all tax dollars,.

Quote by Jean-Baptiste Colbert, French Finance Minister under King Louis X1V (1619-1683)

**The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest amount of hissing**

Quote by John Marshall, Chief Justice U.S. Supreme Court (1801-1835)

**An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy: because there is a limit beyond which no institution and no property can bear taxation.**

When it comes to taxation the City of Prince George is out of control. This is obvious, yet they continue to increase taxes. THEY NEED TO STOP.

If Mayor Green cannot deliver on the 10% across the board reduction in costs, then she better come in with a minimum 5% and she had better do it quickly.

The City does not have a tax problem, they have a spending problem.

What bothers me the most about the constant increase in taxes. Is the constant decrease in services. For example, the transfer station downtown will not let you leave your grass bags there after you recycle your lawn clippings because they no longer accept garbage. They will also no longer accept tires for recycling. Raise the tax lower the service. The cost of visiting the pool has increased. Again charge more get less.

Well said Palopu

“The City does not have a tax problem, they have a spending problem.”

Palopu got it right.

And there is still potholes so deep I seen ducks diving in them.

The City has both a tax problem and a spending problem. The credit card is maxed out. Time to start paying it off.

Palopu …. “Seems to me that the Performing Arts Centre initially got $10,000.00 in seed money from the City, and later got an additional $100,000.00 from IPG, to work on getting a PAC for the City.”

It is amazing how quickly people forget …. THAT is exactly what politicians are hoping for.

I will not correct the figure. Let us see if someone else can dig them up.

Then let us see if someone can dig up the capital projects plan which showed the original projection for the cost of a PAC and where it was to happen in relation to other projects such as police station, library expansion, aquatic centre, etc.

Palopu is correct! Well said! The above comments are from people who do have the power to vote in the next municipal election, an election which is becoming more important than ever since we do not have the option of recall.

If this is the time to start paying it off how great of an idea is it to plan to dip into the Debt Reduction Fund to pay for the planned new downtown parking scheme which is virtually unanimously opposed by the merchants and the public?

Oh, and we should also have a look at when the Kin I replacement capital project was originally planned.

Everyone get in line please ….

wait … how did you sneak in here?

Actually I think Palopu got it wrong. The city does have a tax problem.

You see, people here are spoiled. They have lower taxes than many other cities of similar sizes across Canada, yet they want the same quality of service.

THAT is the major problem.

AND I may be making a huge mistake by attributing that opinion to “they”. Because we really do not have a good indication from what “they” actually believe.

All we have is an indication of what the most prolific posters on here think.

Let’s face it people, they are not representative of the larger population since they have the time to post on here.

Retired, unemployed, underemployed, on disability pension, and so on is likely a higher portion of the profile of the repeat posters on here.

So quick to judge Gus.. Not sure when you took a pole of all the people who post on here but could you please show the results as it would be interesting . Or are you just cutting and pasting again? Or just assuming?

Gus, I don’t know how you can say that we have lower taxes than other cities of similar sizes. Exammple, one acre of land on Bench drive, water & sewer provided by homeowner, no storm sewer – open ditches, very few lights. Same size house on one acres of land, with lake frontage, water & sewer, storm sewer and street lights; the Bench drive home paid double the amount of taxes than the lakeside house.

Gus is bang on. People here have been spoiled for a long time. Now when it is time is pay the piper, people are up in arms. Could everyone seriously say they didn’t see it coming?

Paying off the credit card will be a painful exercise, but one we all have to do. At the same time, the City has to reign in spending big time.

I agree with JohnnyBelt the City does have both a taxing and spending problem along with too many yes councillors.

Just because they can doesn’t mean they should divert 1.2 million from the debt reduction reserve to buy an expensive parking system for DT. That money should be used to reduce debt, not to accumulate more!

Who says the City has any Expert Brains ?

“Paying off the credit card will be a painful exercise, but one we all have to do. At the same time, the City has to reign in spending big time.”

That is why the “Retired, unemployed, underemployed, on disability pension,” and so forth are commenting here – because they KNOW that the city will NEVER reign in its spending in a meaningful manner!

How do they know? Past, present and promised (PAC, etc.) future evidence! It has become impossible to make things really lean and mean and get a real handle on the situation! Too many vested interests and contractual (cemented in place) long term financial obligations.

Nobody is going to take a wage, salary and benefit cut.

1. one acre of land on Bench drive, water & sewer provided by homeowner, no storm sewer – open ditches, very few lights.

What is the assessed value? Bench drive is in city limits.

2. Same size house on one acres of land, with lake frontage, water & sewer, storm sewer and street lights;

What is the assessed value. In which community is the lake?

Keep in mind that even though house size can be an indicator of assessed value, one can be a double wide on foundations and the other a custom built home with solid oak floors, Italian tile, polished concrete countertops with Kohler fixtures and fitting for house plumbing and a bathroom for each bedroom with clay tiled roof, etc. etc.

More information is needed in order to determine why one pays more tax than another.

Typically, if one wants to compare apples to apples, one looks at a similar house age, size, finishes, relative location in community, etc.

Both houses the same size, and both within the City limits. The houses around the lakeside house are from $950,000.00 and up. Houses around the Bench Drive House $650,00.00 and up. The two houses taxes were interesting to compare because the lakeside house ($975,000.00) was worth more than the one on Bench Drive.

What lake do we have in the City of Prince George?

Tabor?

Wait, never mind me. That’s out of city limits.

Reduce the inordinate number of “workers” and their benefits. Seriously, since you “work” (and I use that term lightly) for the government (civil and or otherwise) you should be thankful you have a job and forget about the rest of us supporting you.

I feel sad. Sad that some of my community members seem to have so much trouble with a fundamental skill – mathematics. Not to mention good old common sense.

Before I even took the calculator out, I knew Ben had the percentage wrong, but at least he qualified the amounts he used.

Taking the difference between a discounted number and a non discounted number is a little misleading, especially when the discounted number becomes the divisor for the percentage quoted. The math to put the terms on a comparable basis is quite simple, let me illustrate:

2010 $300.18 (discounted value) converted to actual total user fee –
$300.18/90% = $333.53 your actual 2010 utility user fee. The 10% discount was a gift and or a working capital ploy the city didn’t need to give or use.

So now if you rework your calculation, you’ll come to the following:

($439.28 – $333.53)/$333.53 = 31.7% Still a big number admittedly, but much less and much more correct than Ben’s.

2010 – 2011 there was a 11.03% increase
2011 – 2012 there was a 4.48% increase
2012 – 2013 there was a 13.53% increase
for an average annual increase of 8.75% annually since 2010. Assuming of course Ben’s numbers are accurate.

Then to spout off about people’s annual salary increases like that’s relevant or relational also is kinda silly. The provincial household average income in 2009 was $75,800. For arguments sake, lets say it was the same in 2010. So, to cover the 31.7%increase in utility rates over four years, or $105.75, household income would have to increase (assuming a 40% tax rate) ($105.75/60%)/($75,800* 60%) = 0.4% (that’s less than half a percent for the mathematically challenged.) over 4 years! Grow up, get a grip or get lost.

I’m betting some of the folks whining the loudest, think nothing of dropping $5 a day on coffee and other needless nonsense; $1,825 a year, but you snivel about coughing up less than a $1000 to bring some of the best water in the world straight to your home and more pipes to discharge your grey water and poop into. Not to mention having the tonnes of garbage you generate picked up curbside and disposed of for you.

Do yourself a favour and get some perspective. I’m not a big fan of the current Council and some of their decisions either, but they got this one right. A lot of the water infrastructure in this town is probably 50 to 80 years old. Yes, someone dropped the ball (probably a whole bunch of them did) by not planning for it’s eventual replacement, which apparently is eminent. So ask yourself what future you would prefer, one where we start setting aside now, for inevitable infrastructure replacement costs, or one where we have Council, not wanting to anger their constituents, continue to kick the can down the road? Council made the tough call on this one. This might save us from massive expensive debt in the future. Think about what a catastrophic water failure would mean for us. Can you envision running your house without water for a week? How about a month? Now how do you feel about your utility bill, which may actually be less then your cable bill annually. Think about it.

If you don’t like it move! It’s not going to change.

Good one, thanks for that SN.

I do disagree with your first point. I understand it, but disagree with it because the 10% discount was there in the earlier years and was taken away this year, thus it is valid to consider it an increase.

One way to show that is to go though it for the person who was always late, which is your calculation. Then repeat for the person who was always early. That is the person who gets hit the hardest. In fact, this year’s bill is more than 26% more than last year’s.