LOCK THEM OUT!

Accrued sick leave is a joke. Instead of being thankful for your good health you stick your hand out and squawk about entitlements.

Anything not deemed an essential service should be contracted out.

Anything not deemed an essential service should be contracted out.
=========================================

It would be interesting what your posts would then tell us.
Cheers

I see two issues here. First the gross mismanagement of tax dollars is what put the city in the predicament it is in, and one of those gross mismanagements is letting city workers wages and benefits get way out of whack with the private sector. You don’t have to have a race for the bottom with city wages, but paying someone $20/hr to pick up litter on the boulevards or take money at cougars games is ludicrous.

I agree with axman…. accrued sick leave is one of the greediest items on any Union shopping list.

If you need time off for something other than the usual, that’s what Short Term and Long Term disability are for.

I’ve been witness to people not taking sick leave and then get it paid out when they retire. Woohoo bully for you. Payday for not getting ill…. or coming to work sick just to make some extra cash. Sick leave is not a savings account.

I don’t mind a healthy time period for illness each year, but it should re-set itself annually, not accumulate to obscene amounts of time.

“In 2012, the City says it spent more than $1.2 million funding sick leave for CUPE employees”.

Wow. Our tax dollars hard at work…?

$1.2 million for unused sick leave… That pretty close to 1% of the annual City Budget.

Why is anyone paying this?

The notion of paying out for non-used sick leave is sick!!!

If sick leave can be accumulated and accrued to subsequent years … okay.

BUT

1. it can only be used for doctor certified illnesses which require rest from work

2. it cannot be accumulated and paid out at some future date.

PROBLEM

1. increased absenteeism based on questionable one day sick leave call-ins as well as medical certificates which “stretch” the gravity of the situation.

[url]http://doctorexcuse.wordpress.com/doctors-excuses-note-freedom-from-sick-leave-dilemma[/rl]

SOLUTION

Beats me…. ;-)

http://doctorexcuse.wordpress.com/doctors-excuses-note-freedom-from-sick-leave-dilemma

STRIKE!!!

So what you are saying Gus, is that if a person is home throwing up and/or stuck sitting on the toilet…they should go to work anyway? Spread the joy? Or should people go to the doctors to get a note every time they get the runs?

The better solution is to have a limited amount of sick time each year that is not rolled over each year but reset.

LOCK OUT!!!
;)

If it ain’t “etched in stone” contract out.

I work in a system that allows sick leave, but we do not get paid out and it resets itself every year. It works. Sure, there are a few who abuse it and call in sick here and there and they may not actually be sick, but I can say there are far more people whose work ethic prevents this and they do NOT abuse this system. Far less expensive in the long run. Dr certification should only be required if there are several days off required, or if there appears to be a pattern of abuse.

Being paid out extra money just because you showed up for work to do the job you are hired for and are already being paid very well to do is ridiculous in my opinion.

Give the employees a small amount of sick time which they don’t need a doctor’s note to use, but which they get paid if they don’t use. Anything beyond this small amount requires a doctors note and is done on a short term disability like program meaning that you don’t get paid unless your doctor thinks you need it.

So the sick time at the city is also used as short term disability because they don’t have any disability plans for union employees. So that number would be way lower if they actually had a disability plan

Sick days, why is it the same person is always sick on a Monday or a Friday. Why because they feel they are entitled to a long weekend when ever they want. That is when the supervisor and union rep needs to call on this person, and put them on notice, written.

Sick days are to be used when your sick, or your kid is sick. Not for making it a long weekend.

Those who do not use up their sick days in a year should be rewarded for being a good healthy employee.

Those caught abusing the benefit should be harsely reprimanded.

The city worker deserve to make the same as their counterparts in other communities, no more, no less! This issue is simply a culmination of many years of fiscal mis-management by our council and administration. I don’t know if anyone actually buys the “tough times” argument put forth by the city, one just has to look around town to call that argument BS!

Just out of interest I did a quick scan of some recent settlements. When you look at this it doesn’t appear the employees at the city are out of line with what their counterparts around the province are getting. Obviously the years vary.

Nanaimo – 2%, 2%, 2%
Kamloops – 2%, 2%
Victoria – 2%, 2%, 2%
New West – 1.25%, 1.75%, 1.75%, 2%
Port Moody – 1.75%, 1.75%, 1.75%, 2%
City of Courtney – 2%, 2%, 2.75%, 2.25%

The challenge is the wage settlement doesn’t tell the whole story. Changes to the contract language can also have a monetary impact. As an example some employers cover 100% of benefit costs while others only contribute 85%. If the employees give that up the trade-off usually shows up in the wage settlement. It is called negotiations.

I can understand why taking a cut to wages would be a tough pill to swallow for the employees at the city when Council had no problem giving themselves a 30% hike in their own wages. Council also hasn’t made any effort to cut back their ever increasing travel expenses including yet another trip to China.

And if the union has already agreed to give something up that reduces their job security then they are probably expecting something in return in the form of a reasonable wage adjustment that keeps pace with inflation.

IMO the biggest problem of rising labor costs isn’t with the front line workers, it is with the middle and senior managers who get compensated way above the private sector and they are far less accountable.

And btw, if all this posturing is only over a difference of 1% in wages then wtf. thank god I moved outside the city.

Ride-on wrote: “This issue is simply a culmination of many years of fiscal mis-management by our council and administration”

I agree totally.

SO how is the lawyer doing for the City? LOL…..

And he she gets paid whether there is an agreement or not…… the longer it takes, the more the legal fees ….. or is there a bonus clause for finishing early?

“if all this posturing is only over a difference of 1% in wages then wtf. thank god I moved outside the city”

So how is the contract doing with the RDFFG? What does a junior clerk and a senior clerk make there versus the City?

LOL Oh my the City of PG haters are out in force AGAIN! ya wanna start with “contracting out” then be prepared to see non existant services, you get what you pay for so I realize contarcting out is the instant reflex action of anyone who hates the city…..and this site is FULL of em, it does not work, has never produced the same results and in the end most municiplaities go back to staffing City empoyees.

Mitch2 made the most intelligent comment yet because it is 100% true – “IMO the biggest problem of rising labor costs isn’t with the front line workers, it is with the middle and senior managers who get compensated way above the private sector and they are far less accountable.” Perhaps Bill Gaal, who routinely makes a mess of city snow clearing, who should have been fired years ago, can refund some of his rather large salary to the employees doing the work!

I think the public sector should look into hiring workers who are in better health:P Studies have shown that they are sick two or three times more than the general public.

The contract shows that the city employees bank 1.25 days a month to a maximum of 172 days. There are terms in place for cash payouts when leaving the city(by choice or otherwise)

http://www.lrb.bc.ca/cas/WUG28.pdf

IMO it is time to claw back this type of benefit if the employees want a raise, fine to have sick pay but having a three month payout when leaving after ten years is no longer doable.

With approximately 800 employees if they all banked the maximum the city would be on the hook for 14 or 15 million just to pay out sick time.

I’m not sure how they accrue for this if it is banked in 2013 dollars would it be paid out in the future in that amount or by what the employee is making then? If not then the liability could be significantly higher.

The get 50% of their sick time if they retire. 25% of their sick time if they leave prior to retiring.

The City wants 0% 0% and 2% for a three year contract. This fits in nicely with the municipal elections in 2014, they can point to the contract and state they are holding the line on wages and benefits, which is only partially true, because they are budgeting for City Staff Salaries and Benefits of.

2014 $ 419,494
2015 $ 1,255,677
2016 $ 1,124,790

All City staff, managers, and union should be held to the same 0% 0% 2%

So who knows what the nose, knows?? Speak beak.

The contract expired at the end of 2012.

So, they have already been working at 0% for 2013.

0% for 2014.

2% for 2015 ….. a nice mid term gift to the next Council …..

“IMO the biggest problem of rising labor costs isn’t with the front line workers, it is with the middle and senior managers who get compensated way above the private sector and they are far less accountable.”

LOL..keep telling yourself that! The Union is just as responsible for the problems of the day. The attitude of entitlement, and complete disregard for the taxpayer, that Union brass show is shocking and most public would be dumbfounded by what is said at negotiating tables by these folks.

When the Union is prepared to give up their sacred job security clauses then they can talk about how good management have it. Until then ‘all farts in the wind.

I can understand the dilemma here. I rarely get sick, and often felt cheated when I lose my accumlated sick days at the end of the year. But I’m also grateful for my health and my job, so I don’t feel that cheated.

In the private sector, there’s a lot more flexibility that allows companies to reinvest money saved on absenteeism into projects and bonuses that increase well-being. An employee who doesn’t use their sick days would receive a gym pass or a gift certificate to booster juice…for example. Or maybe money from reduced sick days would be put into hosting ‘fun day’ for staff. I find these small gestures go a long way in improving workplace heath and cost significantly less than sick days. Mental health, after all, is half the battle.

Unfortunately the public sector doesn’t really have the leeway to do this.

So what floor do you you work on at City hall realitycheck cuz its plainly clear you are a union hater and a City fatcat to make such an absurd statement as though your sitting in on negotiations…Hummmm?! Nanaimo gets 6% in 3 years….Kamloops 4% in 2 years, neither City has to deal with the Winters in PG or the crime rate etc etc, but your right……2% over THREE YEARS for PG workers is fair??! Council and Mayor get a 30% increase…..but your right, 2% over 3 years of living is oh so fair! Say hi to Shari for me.

I see this ending like most union negotiations. The union will be out for a few weeks, the reps will get their huge bonuses for doing so, then they will sign for an extra percent and will not make up for the lost wages in five years.

Considering that the City administration doing the negotiations, and the Union are all being paid for by tax dollars, I don’t see how the taxpayers can win.

We need an across the board reduction in all budgets of at least 5%, and no more increases for at the very least three years.

I can guarantee you that no one on the City payroll (if they care to be honest) would notice the difference.

Negotiations for increases based on cost of living is a failed project. We need to be realistic and admit that we are over paid and under worked.

Knowledge: “Nanaimo gets 6% in 3 years….Kamloops 4% in 2 years, neither City has to deal with the Winters in PG or the crime rate etc etc, but your right……2% over THREE YEARS for PG workers is fair??! Council and Mayor get a 30% increase…..but your right, 2% over 3 years of living is oh so fair!”

Hopefully this kind of jibberish isn’t being said at the negotiating table.

That argument of “it’s not fair” (stamp the foot) sounds like a child ready to have a temper tantrum. So what, mayor and council got a 30% raise. We all agree, I’m sure, that that is insane…but..does that make it right that the union has to get something more as well? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Here is another way to look at sick leave….if you so choose. One person here said that its ridiculous that someone gets paid extra money for showing up healthy and doing their job. Well…isn’t that kinda like a bonus? Similar to those big fat bonuses big corporate executives get at the end of the year weather or not the company did well or poorly?

You can argue…and fairly…that this is our tax money being spent and people shouldn’t be paid this much to do this or that….well just remember one thing…..everything and I do mean EVERYTHING is negotiable. The reason why most people don’t have the balls to go up to their employer and demand a raise is because they know and you know that YOU are EXPENDIBLE!!! You can be replaced rather quickly. Now just imagine if you had someone in your corner helping you to fight that battle with you. You’d feel a lot better about your chances of getting a raise.

Just because you don’t have a secure job with fellow employees with some clout doesn’t mean you should cut down others that do…..

Raises should be based on merit. People who are really good at their jobs don’t need to demand raises, they just get them or they go elsewhere because they have options.

Getting raises because you’ve hired a bully to try and negotiate your wage doesn’t work for me.

I hope the City locks these guys out and lets them cool their heels on the pavement for a while to think about their position. Everyday they go out is money in our pockets.

Lol,money in your pockets? It’s money that will go to helping pay for trips to China. And keep in mind…. It’s very likely that not ALL the union workers turned down the offer.

Lets not keep using the Councilors raise as an indication of what’s happening at City Hall. Its the Managers, staff, Police, Firemen, and Union that are overpaid.

$30,000.00 per year is not a hell of a lot of money for a Councilor. I wouldn’t want to pay anymore, however when they were getting $22000.00 they certainly deserved a raise. Even if it is a part time job, most of them put in a lot of hours, and of course they have to put up with complainers like me.

Palopu, please take this with all due respect, but you are either a city councilor or the dumbest person in PG!! The things you say are mind blowingly moronic.

“We need an across the board reduction in all budgets of at least 5%, and no more increases for at the very least three years.” Did you just pull that outta your arse? No more increases for at least 3 years??….based on what? Its SO clear you just hate the city…..according to YOU, Police Officers, Firefighters, Staff, the union, managers are ALL over paid, really….you left out the trees at city hall that probably get to much water. EVERYONE according to you is OVERPAID, would luv to know what you do for a living but my guess is your paid just right…..its EVERYONE even affiliated with the City of PG whos overpaid, wheres your stats to back any of that up? Oh and this is my fav….City councilors PUT IN ALOT OF HOURS??! No, they don’t actually. Again according to YOU, CITY COUNCILORS are NOT overpaid….but Fireman, Police (Who are paid by the federal government by the way, there not a municipal Police dept!) Managers Staff and Union ARE overpaid! Bizarre lack of logic there.

Sine Nomine….Getting raises because you’ve hired a bully to try and negotiate your wage doesn’t work for me.

Actually I believe it is the City that has hired a high price Lawyer to be involved in the negotiating, also I seem to remember reading that it was not a local Lawyer either.
Now.. I am not so sure it is the wages of the front line CUPE workers who’s wages you should be concerned about. With about 5 min. of research I found this & find it a bit interesting. The wages, along with the wage increase of the 5 members of the Cities bargaining commity….

2009 2012 Increase
Emery 107112.97 122360.33 15247.36
Gaul 125325.50 153835.12 28509.62
Beasly 105330.57 116844.66 11514.09
Caffrey 99596.09 104213.98 4617.89
Soltice 157114.62 192579.97 35465.35

The total wage increase in 4 years for just 5 non union City workers comes to 95354.31 ,hmmmm

Soltice was the acting City Manager in 2012 …. not only that, but I do not think she was relieved of her other position.

You have provided no background info which may justify such increases which might actually be a four year period.

1. 2009
2. 2010
3. 2011
4. 2012

5. 2013 …. what is Soltice’s salary since James came on as City Manager?

Stillcounting… often the bottom line of management wages includes any training and travel for conferences that they participated in during a calendar year. So, over 4 years, these 5 people may have participated in mandatory workshops, conferences and training. This counts as part of their income in a lot of the stats.

stillcounting (union member?),

Yup, the city brought in some help to try and even the odds this time. Looks like it’s working… So from that perspective a good investment.

If I’m not mistaken, I believe those figures that they publish every year have everything in them, included reimbursements for travel expenses, training, vehicles allowances, etc.. So, an apples to apples comparison not really possible with those numbers I don’t think. Nice try though. Anyway, they don’t have hired shills negotiating their wage for them, they do it for themselves. Remember what I said about merit?

Union workers can whine and moan about trips to China (magnitude thousands of dollars) or increases to Council wages (magnitude thousands of dollars), but the city has a $50million + annual salary problem.

My advice to you is if you don’t like the compensation you receive, perhaps you should go shop your skills elsewhere and see what you can make. I think you’re going to lose this round and so you probably should.

I know people that work on both sides, management and union. They are all good people, raising families, some single parents, some paying their way through college/university. I think sometimes people on these forums forget that City workers are no different than any other person working in our city. The wages vary, one worker I know makes less than $13/hour all the way up to management that I’m sure make over $100,000 a year. I have a hard time understanding the hatred some people seem to have for people that work for the City. If you had the qualifications and were asked to work there, would you? I know I would. The union friends I have… voted to NOT strike. They are thankful for their jobs and work hard to keep them. Even union members do not have job security. 3 were let go two weeks ago. So, it would be great to see comments that weren’t so smug and full of hatred… These people contribute to out community just like you do..pay taxes just like you do.

Financially- WELL SAID!!

Sine Nomine- Does your hatred and bitterness towards working people make you feel better about yourself?

Heres a shock to you I’m sure….CITY WORKERs actually PAY TAXES….same as you do, they drive on the same roads, they spend their money in PG, their kids go to school here and grow to work here…but its folks like you that seem to think their somehow worthy of being dispareged every chance you get because YOU pay taxes!? Please feel free to tell me where YOU work and for whom. Comments like “Even the odds” go to show just how narrow minded and clealry biased towards one side you are, perhaps your ON the bargaining committee for the City’s side…..that would clearly explain why their at a standstill with an attitude like that.

Its not a question of hate. Taxpayers have to foot the bill for wages for Management, Staff, Union, Police, Firemen etc; etc;. We are now getting into the situation where people who earn around $40,000.00 per year (this is the median wage in Pr George) are being taxed to pay wages increases and benefits for people who make $60,000.00 per year and upward.

A lot of the people who are paying these taxes are on limited income, low wages, and have not had any increases in a number of years, nor do they have any benefits.

This is not right. We need to hold the line on wages and benefits, and reduce taxes, and costs,. That’s what has to be done. We cannot continue to raise taxes every year.

The union membership gave the bargaining committee a pretty strong strike vote. They are coming off a contract that gave them pretty healthy raises during some tough economic times for a lot of people in town. It would not hurt them too much to hit the pause button for this round as did a lot of other public sector unions have done in the last few years in BC.

Barring that a few weeks cooling their heels on the bricks outside city hall might get the message across. And the signs outside city hall would likely not permit open burning barrels so thick socks and mitts might be a good idea.

Actually Sine Nomine, I am a member of a Union & I do make a higher wage than city workers in the same trade, & I do like the compensation I receive. Which should be obvious, as you can see the chip on my shoulder is a lot smaller than yours!! lol

financially_frustrated..I totally agree with your above statement. As far as annual wages, I’m not sure what they incur just going off the numbers off the Cities financial statement.

And the people making the $60,000 and upwards are being taxed as well. And I’m not saying that all the people who feel there should be no pay increase “hate” City workers. But some do seem to have an unusual amount of venom to spit out. So, the people on limited incomes are so happy with what they have that they feel everyone should be working or living on the same amount as them? Then taxes would still need to go up… If everyone was making a lower income, they would be buying less expensive homes and paying less taxes. The people I know are not against what is being offered to them. Not all City workers feel entitled to more, more, more. Wages are only one area that the City needs to cut back on in order to get taxes back on track.

“The union membership gave the bargaining committee a pretty strong strike vote.”

Yes

“Barring that a few weeks cooling their heels on the bricks outside city hall might get the message across.”

So if I understand your logic the same people that gave a PRETTY STRONG strike vote….are going to be upset at “cooling their heels on the bricks outside city hall” ??! I’m gonna guess that they didnt vote 96% in favor of a strike only to be shocked when they GO on strike. The Union membership didnt vote to strike for giggles, they know what other municipalities have for contracts and want a fair deal, 0 0 2 is a joke….and they know it! Actually it will be the citizens…..the exact same ones bitching here, that will be “cooling their heels” when they cant get to work cuz of snowfall and their garbage isnt being picked up, and folks cant access sidewalks, or go to arenas for their kids Hockey, or repair sewers etc etc. Oh and just so ya know…..they could burn in barrells to their hearts content cuz theres no Bylaw Enforcement Officer’s to stop them, they’ll be standing beside the barrell ewitt!

And..they won’t have to worry about the sidewalks to go to arenas…arenas and pools will be shut down… they are NOT essential services.

If you want what other municipalities got, drop an application in the mail. After getting 15% over the term of the last contract 0 0 2 is fair this time round. Get snout out of the trough long enough to catch a breath so to speak.

Snow clearing will be deemed essential and if garbage is not might just drop it off at city hall as a welcome back present for when the strike is over.

There are quite a few workers at the City that do feel the offer is fair but their hands are tied, there is nothing they can do about it. Don’t paint all City workers as greedy. They go to work and support their family just like you do. Pay taxes as do you. Believe me..they are not happy with having an increase in their taxes either.

Look at the directors pay that sit at city council. From the sofi report from 2012 the average pay increase was 6.75% for just that year.The average pay increase from 2011 was 5.24%. I would say we have pigs at the trough .The workers on the street received half that amount. I say give the workers what they deserve and freeze all wages for exempt staff for 5 years

Sine: “Union workers can whine and moan about trips to China (magnitude thousands of dollars) or increases to Council wages (magnitude thousands of dollars), but the city has a $50million + annual salary problem.”

Bang on.

Make no mistake, CUPE is in it for themselves, regardless of what it costs the taxpayer to employ them. Yes, they all have families, but that does not mean that the taxpayer owes them a well paying job with fat benefits, when the taxpayer is barely scraping by on his/her own.

It is not about ‘hate’ as the CUPE supporters would like you to think. It is about sustainability. Trips to China and Council pay rates are red herrings and meant to distract you from the millions taxpayers pay annually for the City work force and their benefits. Those need to be reigned in.

Just watched news and Bill Gaul was spewing how the city needs to control costs. They hired a high priced lawyer from Vancouver to bargain for the city. Not a very good job at controlling costs Bill made $153,835 last year. Again not a good effort at controlling costs. Trips to China is not controlling costs. He has run this city into the ground with his poor decisions. Council its time to clean house

Green and her puppets should be the first to be swept up and taken away.

Maybe increases are a fact of life. I don’t see any complaining about BC Hydro increasing by 26% in the next few years. ICBC is increasing. If you look at the price of pork and beef it has gone up way more than 2.5%. Are any of you in the grocery store demanding they take a wage cut or get rid of employees. The farmers almost lost it all when beef prices collapsed yet the price in the store stayed the same. Where you screaming at the packing houses that where making record profits. The wages in the city match or are lower than most in the private sector. Every person I know that work in the mines or forestry make $20,000 or $30,000 a year more than city workers. Except admin. staff because they are mostly women. Which is wrong but shows what the private sector gets away with. Cutting wages and staff will not solve the problem. We need a council that can manage money properly and put it where it belongs. The RCMP could have worked out of a square building in light industry just as effectively as being in a $40,000,000 building. Of course we all know the winter games is a waste of resources. Stop spending money on frills and stick to the core services. I own a farm so I look after my own services. I don’t build a fancy barn for the critters. I make sure the water is running, the septic is working and there is a path pushed thru the snow to get everyone fed.

PAC still gonna be stuck on the back burner til we get this sorted out? It is to laff.