Proof who’s got her number.

Perhaps the Mayor would like to comment on how we can have all police, cars, Tactical Armoured Vehicle, etc; at both Moffat Street all day, and then at Carney St., and then be told that the community is not at risk from the individual that they are looking for.

If there is no risk why all the armour, and police in battle fatigues, and the area cordoned off?

I find it bizarre that she won’t speak with the only reliable news outlet in the city.
Also surprising that with all the trips to China, and other frivolous methods of spending our money,she hasn’t hooked up with an image consultant!

Really hardcandy, you’re surprised the Mayor won’t speak to Opinion 250? All this site has ever done has been to assassinate pretty much every decision she has been involved in and her character by implication. It’s not surprising to me at all that she won’t speak to them. Why should she when all that will be done is to use her words to damn her once more? Nobody with a backbone and an ounce of self-respect would. Would you?

I’m no fan of the Mayor and I’ll be pleased to see her go, but not everything she has done has been worthless. She has been party to some tough, and I believe, “right” actions. Actions that made logical, if unpopular, sense to implement. Now please correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen one complimentary word said about our current, or the past Mayor for that matter on this site.

When it comes to local news, this is my go to source for sure, but I often have to really filter out some of the nonsensical rhetoric in order to get at the information. This sites seeming pathological and troll like fixation on City Hall, in my opinion, really detracts from the otherwise useful and valuable information you can find here.

and that’s my 2 cents worth…

Sine Nomine “She has been party to some tough, and I believe, “right” actions.”

Just asking, what “right” actions would those be?

I believe when Ms. Green first became our Mayor she was happy to comment to 250. The problem arose when she was not consistent with her comments and was challenged on those inconsistencies. Rather than work on her communication skills or try to better understand the topics of interest, she decided to quit talking to 250.

that doesn’t surprise me, cant stand the heat in 250 kitchen…..Banner your comments are right on the money

Many years ago when I worked in Alberta, the Tories under then Premier Peter Lougheed, swept the Legislature , there were If I remember correctly only a couple of opposition members.
The Edmonton Journal , who I have a great deal of respect for, took on the role of Opposition to the government , someone had to print the other side of the story.
250News has taken that duty on in this city, because with a few exceptions no other media has taken on the role of having a second look at what the city is doing and also taking them to task on behalf of those people in the community who feel they are not being heard. For example recently the city issued a survey in which 15 people , or 5% of the 301 polled said that the wages were a high priority in the city. Using 15 people as the basis to form important decisions simply does not sit well with us. We take exception to that position given that there have been countless times in the past two years were petitions containing more than 500 signatures from an area of this city have been simply swept aside. Fair is fair. Further let’s go back to the budget from the Manager office last week, the argument put forward by the administration was that the cost for the “department” was only increasing by 30% , of course neglecting to mention that the salaries were increasing by nearly 60% , does for example a new grader become part of the wage increase cost for CUPE employees. Should we report to the citizens, our findings, I think so. If we are viewed as bullies for asking these questions, who will ask them and at what price. If we offend some, we apologize.
Indeed we have spoken out against a great deal of what the city mayor and council have done. If the Mayor felt that she wanted to get her message out, is avoiding 250 news the way to accomplish this. We would print anything that she has to say , or Is it that she fears the questions that we might ask in relation to her statements, and if so why, we have never had one provincial or federal member in the time of our existence not answer our questions. Is it that they are prepared to defend their actions.
In the coming month we at 250News are putting together a group of people, all well qualified, who will become what will be termed a shadow to Mayor and Council. they will examine the issues before this city and give a sober look at them. These people are all leading citizens who have no interest in seeking political office just a desire to have a true representation of all of the citizens in this community . Their hearts are in this city.
Our roots are in this city , I am proud of this city, I work to ensure that it is held in high esteem in this country and I seek equal voice for everyone residing here.

I’m sure that Mayor Green will have a response at some point. Of course, that will probably occur after the communications people are hired and they spend a week figuring out what they will tell her to say.

Don’t worry folks, when she does say something it will mean absolutely nothing.

Great news Ben! That is something to look forward to!

Is that a team bc jacket? I wonder which sport she competes in. Gotta be figure skating as she is a spin specialist.

She promised us rec hockey guys a new arena before she was mayor so we would support her bid in the election then she got in and stabbed us in the back by raising ice rental rates and then saying we don’t need an arena but we do need a 40 million arts center. Huh? Nice loyalty after we gave her our support. Maybe the jacket is for team double cross.

I’m delighted you’re going to pay close attention to Mayor & Council. This is an important time; in 12 months we may have new representation and that prospect is exciting to me.

Ever thought about running for office yourself, Mr. Meisner? I’m certain you could undoubtedly garner a lot of support from this community. As close as you pay attention to Council, I guarantee sitting in one of those chairs will impart a perspective you may or may not want to wash over you.

If you really want to serve this community and advocate for its members’ interests, I implore you to stop blogging about it and get involved in crafting policy that will shape this community. You have some of the requisite attributes necessary to politic, so why not get more directly involved. I mean this in all sincerity.

The vitriol you level at City Hall appeals to a segment of society, but I fear, not the ones who actually affect change.

If your current form of advocacy were so effective and affective, you probably wouldn’t have a need to be so disgruntled all the time, would you?

I find myself reading this and asking, what is the story here. Is it the rejected vote by CUPE or the ongoing feud between this site and the mayor. The second paragraph which is a previous story is worth reading. The rest not so much.

Sine, you’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head in your two last posts.

Oh, I forgot the obligatory chant “BEN FOR MAYOR!”

Please give us some balance Mr. Meisner, that’s all I’m asking.

meisner: “In the coming month we at 250News are putting together a group of people, all well qualified, who will become what will be termed a shadow to Mayor and Council. they will examine the issues before this city and give a sober look at them. These people are all leading citizens who have no interest in seeking political office just a desire to have a true representation of all of the citizens in this community .”

That’s great. But why don’t they run for office? Is it because they don’t want people questioning them? I would say that if those people (whoever they might be) feel that they have a better idea of how things should be run, they should be running for council. Sitting on the sidelines and second guessing every decision made isn’t productive in any way that I can see.

Like what Sine said, I am not the Mayor’s biggest fan, but I realize that leadership sometimes means making the right decision which is not always popular.

If Ben is mayor! He will have to say “No Comment” when Ben asks him a question.LOL

Like what Sine said, I am not the Mayor’s biggest fan, but I realize that leadership sometimes means making the right decision which is not always popular.”

===================================

Leaders also have an innate ability to draw people to them, to inspire them and to move them forward in a unified direction. They also know when to slow things down, re-evaluate their course, stop being stubborn and accept the fact that perhaps their original stance on something was wrong.

I don’t really get the sense that Mayor Green fits this profile. Just my opinion of course.

This is the exact reason why the mayor is seeking a communication specialist. The city manager says they are having problems filling this position of a communications specialist.
It makes you wonder what the heck is going on in the Mayors office. Her personal assistant at city hall quite shortly after being hired.
All the other communications people hired by city hall have quite or have been terminated.
Maybe the reason they are having a problem filling this position is because they are looking for someone with out morals and ethics to be their puppet.

Opinion 250 keep up the good work. You are the only news agency in town who tells the truth every time.

The mayor and City manager are destroying this great city.

This group will need a nickname, like, the Mayor’s 5’o’clock shadow.

She had no trouble communicating her promises to the electorate! Why the lack of communication now?

BTW, I don’t buy any of the above listed excuses.

How old is she? She acts like she’s 10 years old still. Grow up already and get a real job.

Stay where you are Ben, we will all be better off because of that.
For example: What would you or could you say IF, as a Council member, you were part of a Pine-Valley-like scheme to bring an OCP item to a closed Council Meeting?!? Your principles are to good for that kind of crap, Ben.
Best wishes to You and Elaine and the rest of your team!

NMG: “Leaders also have an innate ability to draw people to them, to inspire them and to move them forward in a unified direction. They also know when to slow things down, re-evaluate their course, stop being stubborn and accept the fact that perhaps their original stance on something was wrong.”

Hey, I didn’t say it was easy. ;-)

In terms of the Mayor not communicating with this site, I can’t say I blame her one bit. This site is hardly balanced in terms of its reporting and Mr. Meisner more or less confirmed that above.

There should be a response from the city. One would think they would be hard at work determining the essential services rather than trying as they did during the 1st go at it by declaring all staff essential. Green has now boxed herself into a corner.
City workers and the taxpayer are tired of her crying poverty and then commissioning telephone surveys, trips to find a twin, big raises to management, and committing to a 40 million dollar PAC.
At least the union workers had the balls to take her and city management to task.

Forget about the PAC. It is a long way from happening as Ms. Green herself said that the Provincial and Federal governments don’t have much appetite for this kind of thing right now.

It costs $42 Million / year to pay for City Staff, and I don’t think that even includes the gold plated benefits. Even a 2% increase is a huge burden to the taxpayer.

She doesnt even know there was a vote. She is out to lunch on a good day.

“This site is hardly balanced in terms of its reporting”

In fairness, many media outlets aren’t. Heck, in larger cities the media is often very clearly aligned with the “left” or the “right” and their bias in reporting is rather obvious to anyone who looks at things with a critical eye.

This doesn’t stop elected officials from at least interacting with those outlets. I think the fact that PG is a small city plays a role. At times the whole thing just feels like a high school popularity contest.

Hey Mitch2, if you actually believed that crap spun by the head of our rec hockey association and green about getting us another ice sheet, your just another one of the sheep! Next election, please think for yourself!

$81,000 dollars. That’s a lot of favours. I could be wrong. Just askin’.

C.U.P.E. donate to her campaign?

NMG: “In fairness, many media outlets aren’t.”

In fairness, I didn’t say they were. Nonetheless, Ms. Green is within her right not to talk to this blog site. And as I said, based on past history, I can’t blame her.

“This site is hardly balanced in terms of its reporting”
===========================================

Well which one is then?? I would be very interested in hearing the views of the mayor and council members…….

“I’m not commenting to 250.”

In terms of the Mayor not communicating with this site, I think it would have been smart for her to say that she is not talking to the media, any media! That would have included 250News and she would have kept her loathing of this site to herself.

It’s called diplomacy and keeping one’s cool!

No charge for the hint!

I think the news story here is that the mayor can’t talk about the CUPE offer in public and maintain her credibility.

Mayor Green by making outlandish budget increases to her office and people that work for her in city hall, as well as the huge increases to her own salary and that of council that she herself voted for… but then has to champion a pay freeze for the wage earning employes… and thus has no way out from coming across as a hypocrite if she tries to explain and debate her policy on the record. At least apparently without someone that can explain a way through this for her.

Think about it. It should be so easy to come out and make public statements on the issue when we have the third highest paid municipal workers in BC, and the rate paying homeowners are nearly tapped out with recent increases… but she can’t be an advocate for the rate payers, because she compromised her position with the salary increases to management and council… so she will probably be a ‘team’ player and steadfast silence on the issue and then become our next conservative MP for her ‘loyalty’ is how things will probably transpire.

By saying Mayor Green does not talk to Opinion 250 she is saying she can not advocate on behalf of the issues 250 readers care about most, which is fiscal accountability at city hall… and she can’t advocate for these issues because she is compromised politically. Therefor a lame duck mayor.

The only way this lame duck mayor can pull through this issue IMO is if she can avoid a city workers strike, and maintain her offer to CUPE. That remains to be seen.

I take issue with Sine Nomine claiming Meisner has vitriol for the Mayors office and city hall. I think its a mistake to equate good journalism with vitriol remarks.

Any remarks of vitriol on this cite I think would be fair to say come from certain posters from time to time that sometimes don’t have the acumen to debate, but feel the need to say whats on their minds. The Johnny clan and People back and forth often reaches this level when they call each other ideological puns… sadly its a natural bi-product of open debate, but I don’t think it raises to the level of shot the messenger, as in blaming a site administrator for everything that is said on the debate forums from either side of the ideological divides.

I see the distinction anyways.

From time to time I don’t like it when I have had my comments removed by Meisner, but at the end of the day he is fair and I think he does this community a great service.

The post above from Meisner about this new community advisory panel is a great idea if he can pull it off. The media should be the 5th estate, and if an advisory panel enables media to report on the issues better, then its a win win for all involved.

This is how democracies are developed where informed voters can make informed decisions at election time and politicians that don’t understand eventually will fade away.

No surprise Johnny doesn’t understand this. (vitriol remark… lol)

Ideally an advisory council would display true openness and transparency and thereby gain for itself real power through respect… this could then be the benchmark for council standards and in turn raise standards all around. It could also go the other way entirely depending on leadership.

I like Ben’s idea. We need every aspect of what takes place a City Hall aired in the public. Some local media, just print the news releases of City Hall or other corporations, or organizations, and usually do not ask any hard questions.

We have a lot of things on the go that need some explaining.

1. How is it that 100 PAC Society people can get the City to support a PAC as the next major Capital Project, but the same people totally disregarded 1100 signatures on an Alternative Approval Process, to stop the borrowing of money for the new police station. Hmmmm. One Councilor suggested that if only 1100 signatures were collected, then one could conclude that the rest of the citizens were in favour of the project. However they did not use the same rationalization for the PAC when a mere 600 joined the society. Hmmm.

Another question of interest.

Why did the Police Station that consists of 63,645 Sq Ft, and will service less than 200 people including prisoners, Cost us $38.9 Million to construct, plus interest for a total of approx. $80 Million over 20 years.

At the same time BC Hydro is building a new building at 22nd and the Bypass, 85000 sq ft. that will house some 200 people, with a life span of 75 years, for a cost of $25 Million.

In other words, more square footage, more people being accommodated, and cost some $13 Million less.

Some on this site would consider the BC Hydro building to be a barracks type building better suited to Siberia, however the fact is the building is much nicer looking, and much more functional and in a better location than the Taj Mahal.

If we ever get a Municipal Auditor, this is one venture that needs to be looked at.

Ben is the last of the true journalists. The rest are worried about their pensions and benifits to come clean.

I’m still waiting for people to stop calling this a Blog.
For the most part a blog is just one persons opinion on one subject at a time.
This site does everything that any media site or publication be it print/TV or radio has.

As for Mr Meisner giving his opinion on some issue,any editor from time to time gives their opinion in the publication they run.

To Ben and Elaine….keep up the good work,if nothing else you get the people talking.

Eagle: “No surprise Johnny doesn’t understand this. (vitriol remark… lol)”

I understand far more than you, at least based on your posts. You should best stick to your conspiracy theories.

Eagleone … “as well as the huge increases to her own salary”

You obviously do not follow Council.

Tell me what those huge increases were in her salary. The vote on the previous Council was that there would be no increase in the Mayor’s salary and there is a Bylaw to that effect. From 2012 on, everyone on Council will get an increase based on the lesser of two criteria.

“I’m still waiting for people to stop calling this a Blog.”

Is it a candy mint … is it a breath mint … it’s two, two, two mints in one.

I think it is fair to say this an internet based news service, primarily for Prince George and the Central Interior of BC.

It has a much larger component of “bloggers” who add more or less unedited comments in a similar fashion as those who write letters to newsPAPERS in the hopes that they might be eventually published.

There are some Web based news services that are much larger. A good example is the Seattle Post Intelligencer which stopped publishing a PAPER about 4 years ago and is now a WEB based news service.

http://www.seattlepi.com

Apparently the UK has provided some legislation around Web-based news services to regulate the difference between a “blog” and a “news service”.

Palopu, for your info

From 250NEWS, June of last year with respect to the Hydro field office, as it is called: “While there is no dollar figure available yet on the total project cost, construction costs are pegged at $25-million dollars”

blog/view/24597

The figure for the RCMP station is all inclusive of construction plus other charges such as design, insurance, landscaping, etc.. It would be nice to have a total list. For instance, I am not sure whether furnishing is included in that.

So, apples and oranges.

Also, can you please lose the $80million and go with the figure in the high 50 million that I calculated. If you want to stand by the $80 million, then please show your calculation.

“with a life span of 75 years” LOL

Does anyone get that in writing? Will anyone of us be around to hold their feet to the fire in less than 40 years when they rebuild it?

The building that it replaces was built 40+ years ago. It is good for 75 years and longer ….. sort of like the BC Parliament Buildings, or any one of the Churches that have not lost their parishioners ….. or the Marine Building in Vancouver.

As we know from around here, buildings last as long as one maintains them with preventative maintenance and updating of electrical and mechanical services to modern standards. Since we do not do that, we keep sending construction garbage to the land fill and taking money from taxpayers’ pockets for poor facility management practices.

The green spender won’t talk to us lowly minions.

Anyone word on the 10% cut to city hall she promised during her election campaign? Seems when you hire a personal assistant it is backwards to cut backs, or it that just me ??

The lowly minions are participating in the wealth of information accessible through the internet! The 5th estate is a natural progression from the dark ages of ignorance and the feudal oppression by the lords to that of democracy and freedom of information!

Information is being gathered about us, but fortunately we can (if we choose to) gather information about ‘them’ as well!

People were duped with misinformation far too long, marching off to war without daring to ask questions first, for instance.

Being in the dark in this day and age has become a matter of choice! If one prefers to be uninformed and make decisions based on ignorance, so be it!

Others however keep informed and refuse to be led by the nose!

Gus. The $25 Million for the BC Hydro building comes from their website. As for the Police Station here is the info given out by Mike Davis Comm/Citizen Engagement, Nov 20 / 2010.

Total Project Cost Estimate. $38.9 Million.

Project Expenditures incurred to date $6.6M

Project Expenditures to complete $32.3M

Project Financing.

Principle
Borrowing already approved $23.9M

Additional Borrowing (subject to Alternative Approval) $13.8M

Total Borrowing $37.7M

Interest

On debt already incurred (over 20 years) $2.5M

On temporary (construction) financing $1.9M

On new (20 year) financing $31.4M

Total $35.8M.

**these numbers are based on a conservative estimate interest rate**

So Project cost $38.9M Interest $35.8M Total $74.7M and I seriously doubt if the procurement of the parking space on 4th and Vancouver would be included. Nor would the need to change 4th Avenue to a two way street with a round-about in that area. So $80 Million seems a fair estimate.

Even so $74.7M is a big kick in the ass for this horrendous building. The comparison to the BC Hydro Building was to show that we did in fact have other (much cheaper) more efficient, and more pleasing to the eye options, however we chose the monolithic route.

Have a nice day.

Gus will be along in awhile, he is busy on the Citizen’s website scolding everyone that is opposed to a PAC.

Is Sheri standing behind an air filter in the photo?

I am against a PAC AT THIS TIME as well.

BUT, more importantly I am FOR people educating themselves a bit before they post. You will notice that is what my posts are about. When people spout off out of total ignorance it does not make for informed decision.

I blame the PAC Society and the City for not properly informing the public about their activities.

Modern communicators will have a tough job working for this City to turn that around. The money they get will be hard earned for all the aggravation a good communications person will be faced with in this City Hall.

Palopu.

In my view, there is considerable confusion around the term “construction” cost and “project” cost these days.

Go back a couple of decades and that confusion was not there when the typical project was nicely separated into the cost of the construction only, which was the sum of money paid to a general contractor based on a tender award. Bids were opened, a contract was awarded. Simple.

The cost of the property was not included, neither was the cost of providing services to the building, the parking lots, landscaping, site lighting, drainage, insurance, materials testing, control surveying, etc.

Then there is the cost of the design team and, on larger projects, often a clerk of the works paid for by the owner who was a daily and hourly pair of eyes on the construction site.

These days there are not only the normal architects, several engineering disciplines, quantity surveyors (estimators) but also building code specialists, exterior building envelope specialists (thanks to Vancouver and their leaky condos), LEEDS specialists, etc.

The former will have typically added 15 to 20% to the project. These days that is likely more like 20% to 30%+ on some projects.

The frequency that the police station had its design changed does not come at no cost to the owner.

Architects, Engineers and Quantity Surveyors love those kind of projects from the point of view of having a client with deep pockets. Governments are typically clients with deep pockets.

So, when BC Hydro says “construction” cost, I am relatively certain that it is the cost of constructing the new building, nothing more.

It does not include all the site work that was done to remove parking lots and raise the property on the east, the eventual demolition of the old building, the final site work, the new furniture, the design services costs, etc.

As far as the police station goes, we have the cost of construction. It was the price of Maple Reinders bid on the CONSTRUCTION of the building. That was $22.730 million in the summer of 2011. That was about $2 million less than the Quantity Surveyors (or whoever) estimated prior to tender.

That means that the additional costs of the project is just over 70% of the cost of the actual construction. Let us ask the City why that is. Maybe the changing of the traffic direction on 4th and the roundabout is included. If not, then a portion of that should be.

The City and Hydro have something in common – lack of clear project and cost definition of “stuff” they build.

Palopu … get yourself a spreadsheet program, find a loan calculator template on the internet if you do not know how to use a spreadsheet and enter the following:

loan amount = $37.7million
annual interest rate = 3.5%
Loan period = 20 years
Payments per year = 12

It will spew out the following for the

principal and interest = $199,773.40 per month
total payments = 240
total interest paid = $10,245,613.15
total interest = 27.18%
total payments (PI)= $47,945,613.15

You make it seem as if the whole piece of info was provided by Mike Davis. Obviously only the first part was.

Please do not keep on doing the same as the City an Hydro does, pretend that you are simply taking other people’s info. If Mike did that, no wonder he is working somewhere else now.

MFA web page
http://mfa.bc.ca

PS, this is not a 30 year house mortgage at 7% based on PIT payments