“set the record straight”

LMAO! Let the games begin!!!

Is this from one of their communicators?

Anyone else in this Burg enjoyed the increases as outlined above.

Those in the retail industry, people on Pensions, and other low income earners, probably got **diddly squat**. Even if they got half it wouldn’t amount to anwhere near what the City personel get because of their high wages to begin with.

I doubt if those in the warehouse and mfg industry got those kinds of increases.

The theme song for City Managers, Staff, and Union Workers should be.

**Come on Baby let the Good Times Roll**

In 2007 Bill Gaal made 99,991.85 and in 2012 he made 153,835.12 that’s 46.49%. Gusdal started in 2010 at 75,065.32 and in 2012 made 109,482.32. In 2007 Kathleen Soltis made 132,410.62 and in 2012 made 192,579.97 that’s 39.1%. Ian Wells in 2007 made 99,118.49 and in 2012 135,927.24 that’s 32.88%. Bob Whitwham in 2007 made 134,297.20 and in 2012 made 166,324.87 that’s 22.28%.

Enough said………..

Oh yes they spin the BS…..Mayor is out to lunch hire more communications staff

I suspect that the spread between Union and Management over the five year period is basically the same.

The real issue here is that we the Citizens and Taxpayers can no longer afford these increases, for either Managers, or Union, and they have to stop.

What part of **NO** do they not understand.

I wonder what would happen if we all start withholding payment on our taxes. That would put the city in a tailspin.

My gawd I’m management in the wrong industry. I don’t think you could pay me enough to work with/for Queen Green though…

Tax dollars will be saved when they go on strike. Will the city return those savings, (our money) back to us?
After all why should taxpayers pay for something they don’t get?

guesswhat

As stated here numerous times in the past you can not just pull out names and compare the wages they made in the past without also looking at how their duties and responsibilities have also changed.

Using this model Joe Blow was an employee earning $20/hr five years ago and now is earning 37.50. HOLY CRAP! Almost doubled his wages in 5 years! It’s out of control.

Oh by the way did I forget to mention that during that time Joe is no longer chasing a broom around but got an apprenticeship and is now earning tradesman’s wages and has the additional responsibilities that come along with the Red Seal. Oops My bad:)

Guesswhat on the surface your argument looks really strong and if it were the actual case we should be all over it. Several of those managers changed positions and the “raise” is related to performing different jobs. (may be some performance raises – if the city was more forth comming we would know this) In one case the manager started in the middle of the year and made over 75k for the period he worked – the next year it reflects his yearly wages. So your calculation shows how much they made not how much they got as a raise for doing the same job.

You could run the calculation for union employees that changed jobs as well.

The union got a raise of 3% each year for 5 years which is somewhere around a 16% raise overall. I think if you do not want taxes to go up 3% or more each year you have to have raises less 3% a year as wages are a major expense at the city.

Any tax savings that may occur will be given out as bonuses to management that” persevered #during the strike. Also to the communicators for cranking out BS.

lonesome sparrow, I am not a supporter of the endless rising of operations. I however do support your logic.

I have said it many times before. The only way the city is going to be able to control costs is too, protect the workers not the position, As atritition works its way thru, change the objectives of each department. To much empire building was allowed in the system, its time for a change.

lonesome sparrow there is an error in your math. If they were at $20 an hour and a 15% pay increase over 5 years, it would now mean they are at $23 an hour. They would not be at $37.50

It is 16%. People forget wage increases are like compound interest. You got 3% last year, this year you get 3% on last year’s wages which are up by 3% so over 5 years you’re up 16%. The CPI from 2008 to 2012 is up about 9.2% compounded, so a city worker is earning in real dollars about 6.8% more now, than they did in 2008. So what the city is doing, is trying to get some of that back by going 0,0,2, assuming inflation is about 2% average, they claw back 4%.

As I look out the window at this snowfall, I’m thinking maybe 2,2,2 is fair. They neither gain nor lose ground over the next 3 years, and we don’t have to go through the pain of a strike. And if just one person dies because of poor road clearing, sidewalk maintenance, etc., this strike will have cost too much.

On a 40 million budget we are looking at $800,000 a year, or $26.00 a household – but it’ll be less than that because business’s and industry will pick up some of it as well.

Just as Canada Post has a large number of workers reaching retirement, it’s likely the city is as well. Maybe we could spend the next 3 years thinking of not replacing these people, but finding more efficient ways to do things, that don’t involve people, because there is a labour shortage looming as all we born in 1950’s all start to retire – I wish – no defined benefit plan for me.

And maybe, just maybe the city can shut up about mega projects like PAC, and Councillors can stay home rather than useless travel, and set an example, so 3 years from now, CUPE doesn’t have such a target rich environment to point fingers at.

LunarcomPG

Slight error in your reading abilitycomprehension. Please re read the last paragraph of previous post.

I went with just a 15% pay increase over 5 years and not broken down into the various percentages each year. Even with compounding it doesn’t come any where near the wage you quote.

and why were these people (both union and management) getting increases during the years that the world was recovering from a recession??????

LunarCom, reread what Sparrow wrote…Both sides in this issue have handled it badly. I can’t feel too badly for union workers who saw wage increases while almost everyone outside of the petrochemical industry(s) saw their wages frozen. On the opther side the City really looks bad in their “negotiation” abilities. Both sides had better start paying attention that the taxpayers are fed up.

LunarcomPG:

This is the part that you are missing in your calculations.

“during that time Joe is no longer chasing a broom around but got an apprenticeship and is now earning tradesman’s wages and has the additional responsibilities that come along with the Red Seal.”

The point being that guesswhat picked some names and compared their wages over a period of time with no consideration if they were even doing the same job or if they had taken on additional duties with the associated increase in wages.

Comprende?

I am just concerned when people quote a wage rate, with increases, that is no where near correct and therefore swaying how people think.

I agree with some other portions of the posting, but if you are going to say something is a fact, at least base it on reality and not perception.

Guess what – I think Green and the city council should start at the top and layoff all the top management that got paid that kind of dollars with no severance package. Do they have a senority clause? if not get rid of them. I am quite sure that the city could hire many individuals with the same knowledge for alot less and they would perform as well or even better than these individuals. Get rid of IPG – another waste of taxpayer’s dollars – IPG is always putting a spin in the local paper on their value to PG.
And forget about the mega projects – PAC etc.

City Managers, Staff, and Union employee’s are holed up at City Hall negotiating raises to their already bloated salaries.

They are surrounded by approx. 32000 taxpayers, and business, and industrial taxpayers, who are pissed off.

Does this make any difference to them?? NO. They just continue to spend money, dream up new expensive projects, manipulate revenues, and basically feed us a line of BS.

New Manager getting paid somewhere in the area of $240,000.00 per year. Approx 90 firemen getting $90,000.00 per year or more, etc, etc, etc,.

Are they concerned about how all this waste, and spending, along with the plethora of VERY, VERY, bad decisions over the years affect the average taxpayer. NO.

So what do we do. Voting them out, without some sort of guarantee the new group would be different, won’t make a difference.

We can wait until the Liberals get back to the Legislature, and hope that they pass legislation that will set up an Auditor of Municipalities, and then hope we can get them to Audit the City of Prince George, however at this point in time that’s a long shot.

We can have town hall meetings, and invite everyone in Prince George who is concerned to attend, and start to get some of these issue looked into. We could invite Councilors and grill them on what they are going to do.

We can as a last resort, do as suggested above, and have about 5000 people withhold their taxes to force the City to come to grips with all these problems.

I think that before anything changes the Citzens of Prince George will have to take some direct action. Its at this point, where we will see who will step forward, and who wont.

I know a heavy duty mechanic and he works at a local shop in town and he saw 20 percent wage increase in those five years and they are still getting raises

Aloha1, the reason that a heavy duty mechanic might be getting wage increases could be due to the fact that there are not enough tradespeople around. We employ tradespeople and have to keep upping their wages in order to keep them.

This is not the same as the City workers e.g. clerical, accounting, janitors who are making a lot of money. There are plenty of people who could replace those people in their jobs at the City of PG.

Palopu; “City Managers, Staff, and Union employee’s are holed up at City Hall negotiating raises to their already bloated salaries.

They are surrounded by approx. 32000 taxpayers, and business, and industrial taxpayers, who are pissed off.

Does this make any difference to them?? NO. They just continue to spend money, dream up new expensive projects, manipulate revenues, and basically feed us a line of BS.

Please explain in detail on this post which union employee’s are continuing to spend money, dream up new expensive projects, and manipulate revenues, and feed us BS.

Last time I checked union employee’s just get paid every two weeks. THAT’S their spending!! They don’t have the authority of dreaming up projects, expensive or not. They certainly can’t manipulate revenues… please provide details if you can. And feeding us BS… I guess that’s an objective comment.

doesn’t the city of pr. geo. know that you don’t negotiate thru the media and air dirty laundry hang in there boys you just might make SHARI cry

Aloha1. What were his wages to begin with? Is his shop trying to retain employees by being somewhat competitive with the Oilsands? Trades people are in high demand, especially HD Mechanics & Pipefitters.

“Last time I checked union employee’s just get paid every two weeks”

Check in a few days as that will change as soon as the picket signs come out. How much does cupe give for strike pay? Not really even pay as I’m sure there will be a special assessment on return to work to replenish the war chest, so more of an interest free loan(taxable?)

Best they can hope to gain is maybe 1% so won’t take many days on the line before any gain is long gone.

Here’s a suggestion for the city’s lawyer… after a month offer 0-0-2 with a $250 signing bonus…..after 2 months 0-0-2 with a $500 signing bonus, etc, etc.

I better go fill up the snow blower, might be doing the street in front of the house later this week.

FYI – most heavy duty mechanics are making between $30 – 35 (average) in PG which includes unionized shops. At 40 hours per week – yearly 2080 hours x $35=$72,800 -much lower than the administration at the City hall. Is there a shortage of HD mechanics? If there is , the solution would be to have more apprenticeships in that trade. Many shops do not have the shortage of HD mechanics – they utilize apprenticeships.

How much is the owner of the shop skimming off the top?

Bill Gaal 2012 he made 153,835.12
Gusdal 2012 made 109,482.32.
Kathleen Soltis in 2012 made 192,579.97.
Ian Wells in made in 2012 135,927.24.
Bob Whitwham in 2012 made 166,324.87.

Figures will not be out for what they made in 2013.

Either way the positions previously and the positions now are out of line for what they are paid.

Why is it not one person (if I am not mistake 3 people from the administration were asked) at a recent council meeting could tell council how many parking lots/parkades are in this city?

Like others on this website – start from the top and work it on down.

And as for the excuse some of the administration had extra duties etc. – suck it up as it is done in the private sector all the time.

Put a cap on the $’s spent on administration and perhaps review every couple of years. At least stick to inflation rates.

Hello? you are making sense on December 11 2013 12:00 PM !

Good post! I am still waiting for the City to “Set the Record Straight” with a press release which explains how one can claim to be on an austerity campaign while at the same time having a plethora of new expensive projects – one after another – and requiring the taxpayers to pay for them all through higher taxes and user fees!

It doesn’t add up.

I got 1/2 % increase last year and 0 the year before….and I don’t make 1/8 what the above do….not even close.

Posted by: lonesome sparrow on December 11 2013 9:43 AM
“Using this model Joe Blow was an employee earning $20/hr five years ago and now is earning 37.50. HOLY CRAP! Almost doubled his wages in 5 years! It’s out of control”

You have to keep in mind that although in your scenario the employee may have changed jobs the ‘tradesman’ wage you state has also gone up 16% in the last 5 years:

The initial job went from 20.00 – 20.60 – 21.22 – 21.85 – 22.51 – 23.19
While the ‘tradesman job went from 32.35 – 33.32 – 34.32 – 35.35 – 36.41 – 37.50

The city is spinning their no raise or little raise for the past years. They are so full of +#*? And I hope the people see through it. They have proven many times they can not be trusted. If they have not gotten a raise why is their gross income keep climbing. Is this hush money or are they getting a bonus for running this city into the ground.
Thanks union for sticking to your guns

As a contractor I have to get a contract working for the city, seems there is an endless cost of living increase – while in the private sector there is a squeezing to the point where my contract is the same as it was in 2006. Fuel, repairs and maintenance on vehicles, gas and hydro in the office have all gone up and to survive we have to find ways internally to do the same job at the same performance level and do it for less. We have always found a way and our profit margin has remained stagnant.

You hear of all these ‘windfalls’ of cash that are returned to the city at the end of the year from the RCMP budget, etc and yet they seem to easily spend those and add tax increases on top to boot, but that is another rant for another article.

If I was to go into the office and say I want to build up a slush fund in case of a bad year so I am going to charge you an extra 5% over the next few years I know which door they would send me to – and there will be another contractor standing on the other side of it rubbing his hands in anticipation of getting my contract.

THAT is the reality of the business market, and it has not changed since the early 2000s – I will put money on the fact that if they put a call out for all the positions within city hall they would get more than 100 applications for each job, perhaps even thousands. And they will probably end up with ‘better qualified’ people who are willing to begin work at the starting range of the salary, they will not have to settle for TFW.

Posted by: Political Justice on December 11 2013 1:27 PM
“The city is spinning their no raise or little raise for the past years”

Their raises equal 14.5% increase over 5 years, the CUPE local has had 15.9% in the same timeframe, that is the spin

Posted by: seamut on December 11 2013 12:47 PM
“How much is the owner of the shop skimming off the top?”

Most shop rates in town are $95.00 or higher. So you can do the math if they pay their employee 35-40 per hour

Their raises equal 14.5% increase over 5 years, the CUPE local has had 15.9% in the same timeframe, that is the spin
————————————————–

Can you spell this out in $ amounts?? 14.5 % of 100K is very different than 15.9% of 50K.

Odman & others, comparing admin wages to hourly workers is apples to oranges. With most administrators & managers you are comparing a university degree to a general labourer or tradesman. Of course the manager is going to be compensated at a higher wage, that’s why they went back to school.

“Of course the manager is going to be compensated at a higher wage, that’s why they went back to school” Really? I guess you assume a trade ticket is handed out to the tradesman at no cost, aye?

Check the cost lately of simply learning how to operate heavy equipment. Probably costs MORE than a bachelor degree up at UNBC.

Huh, I don’t assume anything. I am a multi ticketed tradesman. I know exactly what it costs to get a ticket & no it is not more than a Bachelors degree or even an Associates degree. See your second comment, talk about assumptions.

detoe43 – What are the qualifications and education required for the positions at City Hall (Management)? Are you assuming that a ticketed trademan may not have a university degree? Looks more political to me these positions-like the clan in the Senate.

oldman1

It would not matter if a tradesman had a doctorate degree- if they are pulling wrenches then they will be paid accordingly. People are compensated for the job that they are doing not for the job that they are qualified to do.

As for shop owners skimming seamuttt, have you taken the overhead into consideration. Heat, lights, taxes, building maintenance, accounting services, etc eat into that money pretty quickly. I would guess that most shops survive on pretty thin margins.

detoe-I believe that you said they get more pay because they went back to school.It looks to me that the more the manager can take away from the workers than he can say what a wonderful job he has done and just maybe we can give him a much larger bonus. Taxpayers dollars of course.

Thanks Sparrow, my exact thoughts. If that is your experience Oldman I can’t argue. However in my experience the most petty, backstabbing, greedy managers were those that we’re moved up from the shop floor. If you read my earlier post I did say both sides were handling this badly.

As for management qualifications? Most industries now want a manager to at least have a bachelors degree, even in heavy industry where traditionally it was a senior trades person or equivalent that moved to management positions. As for compensation? Hey if they took the time, effort & money to get post secondary education, more power (& money) to them. I would also make the same statement for a qualified trades person, they too put in an effort to better their position in life career wise.

It’s a lot of reading, but not one single comment addresses “benefits”. This usually amounts of 30% of wages or salaries, however in the case of managements positions, likely much, much more than 30%.

One only has to remember Tim McEwan’s $140,000 severance pay as an example. What are these City Management position’s paid vacation entitlements?, sick leave credits, fat pension plan contributions, etc.? Yes we see the 2.4% increase in salaries for some of these management positions, but what kind of increases in benefits are they getting as well?

We taxpayers, and business and industry, foot the benefits bills as well.

let me see, if you ballpark what an average manager makes vs an average worker:

2% of $100,000 = $2,000
vs.
3% of $50,000 = $1,500

um, so who got the bigger raise?

That’s the problem with using percentages rather than actual dollar values. It is convenient for the new city manager to spin it that way but it doesn’t tell the true story.

The biggest problem with the city is the growing gap between what managers make compared to what those who actually do the work make.

the new city manager gets paid 240 grand? is this true? good lord! and our services suck! this can’t be possible