Headline: ‘Support for CUPE in Contract Dispute Low’

With nearly 70% supporting CUPE workers I’d say support is high….

That’s ’cause since the last BC provincial election , we read polls backwards now.

We have to take this poll with a grain of salt.

At the end of the day I would say the general public do not support any increased spending at City Hall, for any group, ie; Management, Union, Police, Firemen, Capital Projects etc;

According to a letter to Mayor and Council on June `17/13 from Councilor Albert Koehler, the City has increased its annual budget year over year. The levy was $44.7 million in 2001, and for 2013 it is $83.16 million. The percentage increase for the same period was 50.46%.

I’m sure that if one was to look at where the majority of the money from increased taxes went, we would see that it was in wages and benefits for the above mentioned departments.

Sooo. Lets not be kidding ourselves. We are being taxed to the hilt to pay higher wages, and benefits, for City personel, while at the same time most of us are not getting any increases to help pay for the additional taxes.

This is an untenable situation, and it is up to the City Management and our elected representatives to stop all additional spending. Its just that simple.

Will they do it. My guess is that they do not have the intestinal fortitude, the business and administration smarts, and the political will to stop the madness, and at the end of the day, it will take a tax revolt by the citizens of Prince George to make it stop.

IMO there is a difference between showing support for the city workers and agreeing with an increase in wages. They received generous increases in their last contract when many of us were taking wage cuts and the starting wages for a lot of jobs at the city are way higher than public sector. The city has shown a lack of respect during negotiations and for that I think people support the city workers.

I agree with Palopu. The madness does have to stop! Although this is the first time that the City has actually stood up to CUPE so we will see where it takes us.

Green will stand her ground–it will not effect her chancres of re-election which are slim to none.. this will be her legacy !

So is that 50% increase from wages or just plain poor planning and piss poor priorities. Ford reigned in Toronto’s spending.

seamutt. All of the above.

The City wants a five year contract ie;
Zero for the first and second years, and then they will agree to increases in the last three years. This gets them through the election year (2014) with no increase, after that they will sell the farm.

First woman Mayor, first woman City Manager, woman CUPE leader and the cities first strike ! Interesting !

Boon,

Carrie Jane Gray was first female mayor and CUPE have 2 locals at the city with the other having a male president.

“Sooo. Lets not be kidding ourselves. We are being taxed to the hilt to pay higher wages, and benefits, for City personel, while at the same time most of us are not getting any increases to help pay for the additional taxes.”

So by your logic, because whoever YOU work for hasn’t given YOU a raise despite inflation, gas prices etc, its the City Workers that should all Lead by example and say YES to an utter SH*T offer that is a joke?! Maybe you should get a better Job Paloupo…..try Canfor, they just gave their workers a HUGE wage increase and a signing bonus, I assume those folks pay taxes…..wait….don’t City Workers pay taxes too…..Oh Yes…they do!

CrysBaron. Its not a case of who works for who. Its about peoples ability to continue to pay taxes. How long do you think that regular tax payers can continue to pay higher and higher wages, and benefits for Management and Unions, and Government workers and politicians???

Its time to stop the increases. If we cannot pay the taxes, then you don’t get the increase, its as simple as that. If you don’t like it, then quit your bloody job and go to work somewhere else.

Its not the responsibility of low income workers, people on pensions, etc; to pay a significant portion of their income so that City Management and workers can live high off the hog.

In my opinion you are very well paid, and if you are not happy then suck it up.

In my experience over the years, the result of constant wage increases and benefits resulted in major contracting out, and major lay offs. If that’s what your looking for then keep asking for more.

OMG CrysBaron, are you for real? Seriously, you can’t be serious!!

Our Municipal workers have received a pay increase each AND every year for the past 30 years or so! Our Municipal workers are some of the highest paid municipal workers in the province! Our Municipal workers received wage increases of 16% over the past 5 years, a time when inflation was approximately half of that figure!

Show me another group of employees that enjoyed such a “bad” situation!!

Canfor workers just received a wage increase and signing bonus, but have not those same workers taken 0% wage increases in the past. Have they not also had reductions to their benefits?

Many other workers have suffered job losses, 0% wage increases or even wage rollbacks.

Get a better job? If our municipal workers are so hard done by, why are we not seeing a mass exodus from the municipal payroll??

So, seriously CrysBaron, exactly where do you work at City Hall, or are you just a Union Leader in disguise??

Un-freaking-believable!!

Here are the salaries we are paying physicians with our tax dollars… let the bellyaching continue!!!

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legislation/pdf/2010-11-post-apc-salary-agreement-ranges.pdf

Hart Guy- They have a sale on cheese at Costco…it will go good with your never ending Whining about TAXES. You and old man Palopu are the same guys that would whine and whine and say “I pay your salary!” when stopped by the RCMP. Try and learn this the hard way, EVERYONE pays taxes, EVERYONE works for someone and this City….does NOT have the right to screw over its employees cuz citizens like you no doubt, vote in Idiots to Run your City like Shari Green. PG citizens/WHINERS like you LOVE to preach about how this city is SO hard off financially compared to elsewhere. But that’s the major flaw in your ‘arguement’….the facts aren’t there. Reality Check for you and the other obviously retired old complainer, it costs $$ to run a City and some of that $$ GOES TO PAY THE Workers…..I know that’s a hard concept for you to grasp but your endless “WE HAVE to stop the bleeding” mentality is useless, incorrect, and most of all just smacks of ignorance to anything past your keyboard.

People#1, I’m curious….you are the “facts and truths” person, so perhaps you might provide us with some facts and truths.

Your link provides a list of positions and the applicable salary ranges. Are these gross salaries? Are any of the positions listed required to pay expenses such as office rent, insurance and utilities, support staff, liability and malpractice insurance, supplies, etc??

If a doctor is required to pay many of the above costs, how much of the applicable salary is left over as taxable income? How would that taxable income break down over the number of hours worked? Considering the extensive schooling required to become a physician, then considering the requirements of owning and operating an office, then adding the risks of malpractice suits and the like and then finally factoring the number of hours worked per week or month, these salaries might not seem out of line!

Now consider the average municipal worker who is simply required to show up for work in order to get paid.

Hardly a very realistic comparison! But I could be wrong!!

CrysBaron, I just happened to glance up at the clock. It’s 8:33! Isn’t that past your bedtime? Go get your jammies on, Mommy will be up in a minute to tuck you in!!

You ask a number of questions Hart Gal, here-to-forth-with attached is the entire 200 page BC Physician Master Agreement.

Knock yourself out!

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legislation/pdf/pma-consolidated-amendment-7.pdf

Some of these physician salaries approach half a million dollars per year, yet no outrage from members of the peanut gallery. Must be a selective kind of outrage hey Hart Gal?

People#1, my sister Hart Gal didn’t ask you a single question! Remember, a long time ago I already told you what she thought of you!!

I however did ask you some fairly simple questions, but for whatever reason you would rather bring my sister into the conversation that you would answer my questions with the truths and facts that you espouse!

Rather than being a blowhard big ol’ bag of wind and rather than posting links to this and that in a rather feeble attempt to pretend that you are smarter than everyone else, why don’t you just reread my earlier questions and then attempt to answer them. They weren’t difficult questions, so why do you like to make things more difficult than they are?

Oops, guess that was another question now, wasn’t it!!

My point being, if you are going to point out what the salaries are for physicians, it’s reasonable to expect that you also indicate whether or not the physician has costs that must be paid for out of the salary received. Gross salary and Net Salary are NOT the same thing!!

We all know that you hate “business”! For some reason, I now think that you also believe that the Gross Revenue earned by a business is the same as the Profit earned by the business. Never mind that much of the Gross Revenue is used to pay expenses, including salaries and benefits to employees!

I’ve never thought that you were any smarter than the rest of us! I’m now getting a better understanding of why I think that!!

By the way, even though my Sis doesn’t like you very much, she asked me to say “hi” to both you and your mommy!

Mr. Meisner, tricky tricky with the headline switch.
CrysBaron, your are correct in your comments regarding these matters relating to CUPE, but when dealing with folks like H.G. you may do well to heed the old adage, “never argue with a drunk or a fool”.

Subspecialty Orthopedics $331,381 – $414,226
Neurosurgery $331,381 – $414,226
Vascular Surgery $331,381 – $414,226
Cardiac Surgery $331,381 – $414,226
Thoracic Surgery $331,381 – $414,226

Wow!!! That’s a lot of tax payer dollars being spent on physician / surgeon salaries Hart Guy, why aren’t you complaining about it? Yup just “selectively” going after the little guys right Hart Guy?

Yeah, I think most of us on this site know what you are all about. Must be an x-city worker carrying a grudge.

People#1 …. your stupidity never ceases to astound me.

The fees paid for services by physicians is no different than the charge out rates paid by an auto insurer or private individual for the services of mechanics employed by an automotive service shop.

The rates of $60 to say $90/hour or the fixed rates for particular jobs, no matter how long they take, are no different than the hourly charges for physicians, lawyers, engineers, accountants, foresters, etc. etc.

All those fees are “loaded”. They are loaded to account for overheads of operating the particular business which includes support staff, rent, phone charges, bank charges and on and on.

Maybe if you took some interest of how business works and charges for its services you would not look as stupid as you are.

You have absolutely no street smarts.

Do you have any clue of how long it takes for an individual to become a specialist physician?

1. high school graduation with top marks
2. 4 years undergraduate degree with high marks
3. 4 years medical school
4. 2 years residency in general practice and emergency at a hospital.
5. 3 to 5 years residency in one or more specialties.

Board certification is required to practice as a specialist and charge the rates as specified by MSP.

So, 8 years while one has to live and pay tuition fees without an income to speak of.

Another 5 to 7 years residency when a minimum salary of 5 figures, NOT 6 is paid.

So, 15 years after the age of 18 or 19 gets one to age 33 or 34.

In the meantime the person who has taken up welding as a trade will have been earning as much and more than a doctor during his residency years.

Ho dare you deny those individuals take home salaries, after office expenses have been paid, in the $200,000 range. They do not even have anyone to pay their retirement plans for them. That comes out of their own salaries or office expenses.

gus, you are not the only person here astounded by the stupidity regularly displayed by People#1!

People#1, as the New Year approaches, I certainly hope that you enjoy good health! If you are ever in a situation where you need the urgent services of a Neurosurgeon, a Vascular surgeon, a Thoracic Surgeon or a Cardiac Surgeon, I certainly hope that you have the common sense to not bring Physician’s Salary Guide with you into the operating room!

I can just see it now! People#1 sitting up on the operating table PRIOR to being prepped for surgery, Salary Guide in hand, pointing out to the surgeon the huge amounts of taxpayer’s dollars that are used to pay his/her salary!

People#1, there are times when it might be best to just shut up and keep one’s opinions to one’s self. Sitting on an operating room table would be one of those times, or not, haha!!

$331,381 – $414,226 multiplied by how many surgeons and physicians in BC?

Who cares about the breakdown of costs, the salary amounts are paid out by the taxpayers, why is the peanut gallery not complaining? $331,381 – $414,226 is paid out and by who? By us the taxpayer!

Who cares about how much goes to overhead costs, the payout amount of $331,381 to $414,226 is still footed by the taxpayer.

560 city workers going after a 1% increase in annual salary is “chump change” in comparison to what we pay out to health care professionals.

Maybe I should use Register Nurse salaries of $80,000 – $90,000 per year, not including signing bonuses, and living allowances, top of the line benefits packages, etc. just so you don’t get confused with overhead?

There are at least 30 public service unions negotiating increased salaries and benefits for their members at a federal, provincial and municipal level all the time. All of these unions negotiating for a bigger cut of our tax dollars… maybe you, and a couple of other people on this site, might want to look at things in a larger and more proper context!

Although it is amusing to watch some people sweat the “small stuff”.

Hart Gal;

I certainly hope your waterline servicing your house does not rupture in the new year, with you knocking city workers and all.

I can just see it now, a geyser of water spaying up from the ground on your front lawn, and you having to take trips to bring in your water. Then having you go outside when the city workers arrive and complain to them about the excessive wages and benefits they are getting on your dime! Good luck getting a fast, responsive and courteous repair done by them!

Heck if I was one of those workers, and knowing what hate filled venom you spew about their efforts to negotiate fair wages and benefits, I would personally; spit, piss and sh_t in your water line before connecting it. You know… just to say “have a good day”.

Heaven forbid that your sewer would back up, if city workers knew who you were, you would probably have to dig an outhouse in your backyard and use it for a year before they got around to fixing it!

Geeze, embarass a guy and make him look bad just once and he follows you around on a blog taking potshots whenever he can.

Sorry I made you look bad and hurt your feelings Hart Gal, obviously trying to avoid you and refraining comment on any of your comments over the past couple of weeks has not worked.

You continue to look for, and troll my comments, posting pathetic personal attacks. Suck it up buttercup, everyone here knows your ego took a hit, but it is that same massive ego that refuses you to let go! So keep following me around Hart Gal, your attention flatters me so ;-)

“Geeze, embarass a guy and make him look bad just once and he follows you around on a blog taking potshots whenever he can.”

Learn the art of debate as well as the subject knowledge required and you will be treated differently.

You are known for taking many potshots …..

I have read a number of comments from a variety of other posters on this discussion board that have taken pot shots, or expressed their genuine observations, about you.

gus, you are by far the most prolific commenter on this site, at times, the seer volume of your comments on a given topic both dominates and stifles what should be an open and free flowing exchange of ideas and opinions from a variety of people.

And you talk about me learning the art of debate…?