Morale Of Workers Main Issue In City Settlement
There won't be any awards handed out for the settlement by the City with its union members. While a tentative deal has been reached and in all, likelihood the rank and file will accept the recommendations, the scars left from the infighting will last long into the future.
Morale is very low and will remain that way for some time into the future. The City started the process, in a confrontational manner by hiring a top labour negotiator to handle the process about a year ago and since that time the process has ground to a halt.
That was up until yesterday, when suddenly the Negotiators found that the union was at the table to play hard ball and the staff were ready to hit the bricks before noon. That back and forth movement does little to enhance the day to day feelings of an employee , the most of which enjoyed coming to city hall before all of this began.
It may never be known if Mayor Green had any input into how the negotiations took place , suffice to say however that she will be tagged with the uncertainty that has surrounded the whole discussion.
If there was an attempt to try and score points by holding CUPE to the wall, it is apparent that it failed, and the sense in the community is that the support was, all be it by a slim majority, in favour of the workers.
It is also hard to suggest that the Mayor was trying to enhance her position as a strong personality in order to seek the federal Conservative nomination in Dick Harris's riding which will become available shortly. This kind of talk in the community is pure speculation. However on the other side of the coin if Green hopes to make a run for Harris's job she will be hard pressed to gain any ground with the Conservatives in the area with her record.
The labour unrest, never raised to this extent in the past, will take a long time to pass through the minds of the workers and rather than hiring a high priced negotiator at square one, a piece of that money would have been better spent on the city workers.
I'm Meisner and that's one man's opinion.
Comments
Mayor green, everything you touch turns to mold
Bout time the Union got some balls and stood up to Management instead of pussy footing around.
Not sure as to the point of this opinion. What does the mayor’s political aspirations have to do with morale? Her name has been dropped twice without showing any association to the story.
I understand that any mention of her name will incite comment but I think that’s simply a way to get hits on an underwhelming opinion piece. Not your best effort, Ben.
Whatever the motive, the damage is done and Mayor can take full responsibility. Pressure from local business as a result of the pending strike and the negative fall out to the community looming surly helped.
Morale is low? Good grief. They’re overpaid and under worked and they complain about it?
If your cushy tax-payer funded job is getting you down you can always look for another job.
axeman….you tell them..
What I don’t understand, is who sets the stance for the city? Is it the mayor or the city manager?
People like the axeman…would be the first to complain if there was a strike…hell people like him/her complain for something to do/say.
I agree with axman. Boo frickin hoo! City workers believe everything is owed to them. Overpaid and underworked.
Posted by: econ101 on January 8 2014 8:10 AM
People like the axeman…would be the first to complain if there was a strike…hell people like him/her complain for something to do/say.
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You keep using that word “complain” but I don’t think it means what what you think it means.
In the end the taxpayers are the losers no matter which way it goes. We pay if the city gets their way and we pay if the unions get their way. So the bottom line is, get back to work and plow my #%&^^#&% street since it is in the yellow zone and its garbage day, and it hasn’t seen a plow since way before xmas. Now we have another 6 inches to deal with on top of the rutted, icy, disgusting excuse of a taxpayer funded street. ALL public sector wages should be frozen until they start doing their jobs properly. ALL wages, admin and grunts.
Morale has been low for some time. It started when Green ran for Mayor and maybe before that even. This time when there was a change at the top with both Mayor and Council it was apparent to many that other changes would come. The Core Services Review did not help. Bates leaving, and others leaving before and after him did not help. Neither did the fact that a contract had not been negotiated in ernest. Finally some time with a temporary City Manager and then a new one. In between all that, some changes in lower admin., reduced parks staff, layoffs, etc.
This did not just happen overnight.
As with the snowfall and thaw over Xmas/NY, this was the perfect labour storm.
It is unfortunate that people are so negative, that they feel the need to pass this negativety on and insult others. City workers do not believe everything is owed to them. Why would this statement even be suggested? This doesn’t even make sense. You should be embarrassed about what you write. But congrats to you though. You can do the easiest thing in the world. Criticize , with the inability to come up with solutions and / or productive thought.
I think it’s great that this contract is settled. Internal and external staff will be more inclined to spend money in the community. I think for the most part , spending money in the community ends up paying other people’s salaries directly or indirectly no matter where u work.
Ever wonder at the union level regarding their presidents – just ask any member how it happened ( especially 399 ) in regards to the election of their current president.
I would say that we are putting a hell of a lot of time and effort into a labour/management negotiation at City Hall.
How is the morale at Canfor’s mill in Quesnel which will shut down in March. How about the morale at Houston when West Frasers mill shuts down. These people are all going to lose their jobs.
We don’t even know what the settlement is and we are concerned about **morale**. I doubt very much if the employee’s give a chit one way or the other as long as they continue to work.
As usual this was a head butting exercise between Management and the Union, and the employee’s were merely pawns.
Lets see the settlement and then decide if Management lost, the Union lost, or as I expect, the Taxpayers got **screwed**
Ralt73 nailed it.
Ralt73 forgets that the money that the Union workers are going to spend in the Community comes from the tax payers in the Community, who if they did not have to pay it out to the City, would spend it in the Community themselves.
It matters little if I spend the money, or the City employee’s its the same dollar.
Soo in other words no government workers no effect on the local economy. Is that what you aresaying?
The union is at the center of this whole mess. Once an person is hired and into the union, it’s difficult to impossible to get rid of them if they underperform. They get a raise most years no matter how they perform. What kind of incentive is that to do your job? Get rid of the union, and the problem disappears.
Well Said Ralt73!!
Well said Ben Meisner!!
As for the core group of whiners on here like old man Palopu and Axman etc etc….there the same kinda guys that when stopped by the RCMP for speeding etc are yelling at them “I PAY YOUR SALARY!!!”
Simply put there miserable at ANY Tax they have to pay and think accordingly in the simplest terms of HATE the people that get paid from THEIR Taxes. The city workers stood up to a Tyrant and a Bully of an elected official in Queen Green…and was faced with a much stronger foe than she had anticipated. Both parties will try and spin whatever agreement is reached as being in their favor….the funny part is If the agreement reached was 0 0 0 0 and -1 over 5 years Plaopu and Axman would STILL be on this site complaining its to much LOL!
@Crysbaron. You’re not helping anybody with your emotionally charged and under-informed rants.
Posted by: CrysBaby on January 8 2014 11:43 AM
If the agreement reached was 0 0 0 0 and -1 over 5 years Plaopu and Axman would STILL be on this site complaining its to much LOL!
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We’d still have an inordinate and unnecessary number of people sucking on the taxpayer’s teat. The current system is not sustainable.
Lots of whining but no alternatives. Want some cheese with that whine?
CrysBaron. Do you ever put your brain in gear before you open your mouth??
I have been stopped for speeding and (got tickets) a number of times over the years, and have never made the statements claimed by you to the Police. In fact my philosophy on speeding is, if you speed and get caught then you pay the fine and don’t bitch.
As far as the City Administration and Union people go (in my opinion) they are all over paid. Its just that simple,.
I have no problem with City Workers and Administration getting a fair wage for work done, however who is to determine what a fair wage is.
When you consider that the median wage in Prince George is around $41000.00 per year, and that those at the City who on the low end gross $58,000.00 plus benefits, you then start to get an idea of where I’m coming from.
Its not the responsibility of myself, or other taxpayers, to continue to pay more and more in taxes for increases in wages and benefits for City Administration and Workers. Especially when those on limited incomes do not get any increases to pay the increases. GET MY DRIFT.
Enough is enough.
Ask yourself why are the unions in the frist place? Because the employer treated the staff so well? Without some kind of balance ALL poeple in Canada would be working 12 to 16 hours a day for 2 dollars. Like Mexico. Is it perfect no but it is better than letting people like Green/big busines working you for nothing until you die.
Methinks all we need to make everything hunkey dory in this ‘burg is to enlist at least eight or ten folks on this website who comment sooooo reasonably and intelligently to get themselves nominated to run for a seat on city council. I’m sure all our financial, morale and infighting and taxing woes can be fixed AND improved. How about it, folks? Easy to get nominated, shoot yer mouth off to the local press, and then find sponsors who will finance your campaign with “no obligation”. Easy peasy.
Posted by: oldduc on January 8 2014 12:44 PM
Ask yourself why are the unions in the frist place? Because the employer treated the staff so well? Without some kind of balance ALL poeple in Canada would be working 12 to 16 hours a day for 2 dollars. Like Mexico. Is it perfect no but it is better than letting people like Green/big busines working you for nothing until you die.
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This isn’t really the issue is it? The issue is not the union, the issue is that we have a civil service (including both management and front liners) that is over bloated, overpaid and hideously inefficient. It’s not a sustainable system!
well the plow operators are not over bloated they only plowed my road once this winter. I think the money is spent on trips to China and PR people to make Green look like a angel. I dont think the front line workers are “hideously inefficient”. The Union can only protect a non productive emplyee for so long. Where I work (a union shop) more people are fired than quit you get 3 chances then your are done.
Huh, great post. Exactly how I feel. Message to whoever is responsible for sending out the snow clearing operators: Get out there NOW while the snow is soft and easier to remove!!!!!!!!!!!
“Posted by: oldduc on January 8 2014 2:52 PM
well the plow operators are not over bloated they only plowed my road once this winter. “
That’s a symptom of the inefficiency of the municipal bureaucracy though.
I suspect your union shop is private sector? They’re a lot more realistic then the civil servants.
kiplett posted:
“Once an person is hired and into the union, it’s difficult to impossible to get rid of them if they underperform.”
That is the excuse some people use. My response to those excluded staff do not know how to do one of the key parts of their job. It has been my experience that there is little training given to those people of how to perform that function. Unless it is different these days, the expectation is that people somehow learn it though osmosis. Teaching those skills and assessing those skills ought to be the role of the HR department. Problem is, it often isnât.
It will take a year of negative appraisals which must all be documented and the union rep be brought in upon the first negative report. There should be a protocol on place how and when this should be done.
A good policy is for union reps and the COO/CEO to sit down together once a month or so to identify any difficulties either side is having. That could nip some controversial actions in the bud.
Palopu
“As far as the City Administration and Union people go (in my opinion) they are all over paid. Its just that simple,.
I have no problem with City Workers and Administration getting a fair wage for work done, however who is to determine what a fair wage is work done, however who is to determine what a fair wage is.”
Well apparently ya miserable old fool WHO is to determine what a fair wage is Would be the Union and The City that just made a tentative agreement….I assume you thought it was YOU that determined that? Sorry they left you out of the process, but theres always your computer to sit behind and whine and moan about the City, Taxes, its “lazy overpaid” workers….may I make a suggestion? Get a hobby and start to enjoy your retirement years, cuz you pissina dn moaning about EVERY single city issue cant be good for your health!
Axman- THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS NOT SUSTAINABLE….THE CURRECT SYSTEM IS NOT SUSTAINABLE….Wow is that ever groundbreaking. Again, you state the same tired clichés over and over. You must have REALLY tried hard to get that City job and were shot down, as I suggested before perhaps you need to dust off your resume and stop whining about what OTHERS make for a salary. Why don’t you enlighten us all as to where YOU work Axman…..if you do?!
“Easy to get nominated, shoot yer mouth off to the local press, and then find sponsors who will finance your campaign with “no obligation”. Easy peasy.”
Harbinger for mayor!!
CrysBaron, have you ever taken a moment to go back and read some of the posts that you have put on this site? It’s one thing to express an opinion, maybe even poke fun at another poster in the hopes on eliciting a response, but many of your posts seem overflowing with rage!
I am extremely concerned about your mental state and I strongly urge you to seek help for your obvious anger issues.
Wow! I would hate to be anywhere near you if and when you finally lose it!!
Doesn’t CrysBoron remind you of MattyC ?
CrysBaron. Considering that we the taxpayers are the ones that pay the salaries for the City Administration and the Union negotiators, then it logically follows that we the taxpayers are the one’s that need to have more input into what Public Employee’s get paid. Seems you have difficulty understanding where the money that pays your wages comes from.
Not knowing who pays your wages doesn’t surprise me at all, if your posts are any indication of how far off the mark you actually are.
As for hobby’s I have plenty, one of which is to bitch about overpaid City Workers, and Managers, as for my health it’s just fine. I have been working and paying taxes probably longer than you have been alive, so I feel I’m entitled to express my opinions on subjects, especially those that are financed by my tax dollars.
If you don’t like taxpayers telling you what you should get paid, then get a job in private industry and see how you fair.
Hart Guy.
Interesting that you are following in CrysBaron’s style and suggesting that he change, just as he has suggested that Palopu change.
As they say, “it is what it is”. Take people as they are.
You know, if everyone changed it would not be the goode ole 250NEWS comment section.
hart Guy…I’m deeply touched by your concern, but what a guy like you STILL hasn’t figured out is that I am laughin my ass off every time I post to one of the Citys whiners….”Rage” lol Its more like comedy as if ANYONE takes what is expressed by faceless, nameless people behind keyboards should rile you up, which apparently I do quite well with Palopu, Axman, Hartguy etc…Whiners that love to dish it out but cant take it back. Now back to the reality,
“CrysBaron. Considering that we the taxpayers are the ones that pay the salaries for the City Administration and the Union negotiators, then it logically follows that we the taxpayers are the one’s that need to have more input into what Public Employee’s get paid. Seems you have difficulty understanding where the money that pays your wages comes from.”
Palopu, I don’t work for the City so nice try. Second, do you have input into what the RCMP pays its Officers policing your town, do you have input into what is paid Soldiers in the Military or what a Federal Senator makes….YOU DO, but not how you would like it, its called the VOTE. You have it, that’s your voice so use it instead of whining over and OVER about what the City pays its workers.
“If you don’t like taxpayers telling you what you should get paid, then get a job in private industry and see how you fair.”
I ALREADY work in the private sector jackass,again you have made an assumption that because I don’t share your twisted views towards city employees that I MUST be one, that shows how narrow minded you are.
And finally this- “As for hobby’s I have plenty, one of which is to bitch about overpaid City Workers, and Managers.” Well…at least we got ya to admit it! lol
CrysBaron. We may not have input into what an RCMP Officer gets paid for policing, but we the City and Taxpayers can and do decide how many Police Officers we will hire. So we certainly have a modicum of control over Policing.
Your reference to the Military and Senators pay, is a weak attempt to bolster your argument, which didn’t work.
As for whining it seems that you are a pretty big whiner from the foregoing posts. You are always whining about people who complain about City Workers wages. I suspect that the City workers have given a sigh of relief that you are not one of their members.
As for me being a jackass, try this on for size. You are the North end of a cow going South.
CrysBaron, someone told me once a long time ago, that Capital Letters in a text message indicate yelling, screaming, etc! When I read your posts, there just seems to be an awful lot of capitalization.
All of this suggests to me an image of you hammering away at your keys, screaming and swearing red-faced at your screen! I am concerned that you might blow a blood vessel or something!
I wouldn’t wish a cardiac arrest on anybody and I’m deeply concerned that we might lose your from this site due to such an event!
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, I have always maintained that our Public Sector Employees are extremely well paid for the level of responsibility that they have and the work that they do. I have always maintained that it’s time for a complete review and rationalization of all public sector jobs and salaries. This includes Federal, Provincial and Municipal employees and includes both exempt and unionized staff.
At this point in time, we are dealing with our unionized City workers, workers whose last contract was extremely generous! 16% over a 5 year period when inflation was approximately 8% over the same period. 16% when many others received far far less and were thankful to have held onto a job during the economic slowdown!
I am constantly amazed by the people that are not willing to acknowledge the excessive wage increases over the term of the last contract and who seem unwilling to recognize that it’s time to reign in the constant wage increases enjoyed by our municipal workers. Our City workers have had wage increases each and every year for the past 30 years, prior to the expiration of their last contract! 30 years with a wage increase, each and every year!!
These are the facts! I didn’t make them up!
As I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, it’s time for a complete review and rationalization of our public sector, from top to bottom, from management to the lowest paid government workers, Federal, Provincial and Municipal!
As a taxpayer, I think that is a fair request! You might call it whining, you might call it ranting, but I defy you to call it an unfair request!!
Some very good points being discussed here…..most city workers are over paid. That is all.
“Harbinger for mayor!!” – Think he tried last election….:)
CrysBaron, try taking a chill pill, jeez. You either work for the city our your spouse does because no one who isn’t attached at the teet somehow would get that riled up over these comments.
“You might call it whining, you might call it ranting, but I DEFY you to call it an unfair request!!”
Well defy away lol because it IS (and I’m not red-faced right now lol I put in large capitals cuz Palopu is old and cant get see the important words well).
“I am constantly amazed by the people that are not willing to acknowledge the excessive wage increases over the term of the last contract and who seem unwilling to recognize that it’s time to reign in the constant wage increases enjoyed by our municipal workers.”
Again, BE AMAZED hartguy….what YOU and apparently Palopu don’t grasp is that it is the cost of having a labour force and the City of PG workers are not the highest paid in the province (YOU always state that but NEVER show facts) and in fact are middle of the road compared to other Municipalities. When you make statements like this,
“..when many others received far far less and were thankful to have held onto a job during the economic slowdown.”
You show how clearly upset and biased you are because your employer didn’t give you a wage increase….or you don’t have the job skills to be competitive….or your just straight out jealous of city Workers and you hide it all under your mask of I’M JUST A CONCERNED TAXPAYER….your not, your motives are as transparent as glass….you hate that others have done ok in a Union job, and your upset cuz YOU hard some hard financial times and misery loves company. Well boo hoo! I dont feel the least bid sorry for ya, I feel the taxes in PG are more than reasonable (U wanna whine…move to Kelowna if you want to see high Taxes)Who did you vote for to lead this City in the last election? My bet is you voted for Shari Green….then write her and complain that shes to “soft” on City workers. Don’t blame others Hartguy….its guys like you that have NO concept of just how good we have it in this country, this amazing place to live….but you whine and cry because you have to pay taxes, then my friend, MOVE! Go live in Africa for a bit and then come home and whine cuz your Taxes are going to pay Federal, Provincial and Municipal salaries. Now I have to go check my blood pressure as I’m so excited LOL…and fear not hartguy, one thing I CAN guarantee you is that my Fitness level and Heart would do laps around yours :)
Hart Guy, you will have to wait for a reply from CrysBaron, he’s taken his heart off his sleeve to do a couple of laps. Maybe his spleen is available to run circles around you ;)
Harbinger didnt run for mayor but he did run.
I have to agree the system is broke but it is not because of the low man on the totem pole. The low man does not decide to send four to do a job for two. The low man is not responsible to tell his lazy coworker to get off his butt show up and do his job. Managers need to be accountable and build good teams. They need to know how to and be supported to ditch those who need to go and there bosses need to know the same because maybe they are the one who needs to go. There are far too many getting paid over 100k.
Public service is not for everyone. I have worked private and public and found public really difficult because of the entrenched Bull sh#$. It also seems to attract and provide a prime environment for sociopaths to find ther little empire.
middle: “Doesn’t CrysBoron remind you of MattyC ?”
Yep. Looks like good old Matty’s resurfaced.
Maybe cRYSbORON has a severe case of roid rage. Probably 4ft 8″, 45 years old and yes, still lives in moms basement.
Quotes from CB’s latest post plus my responses
1. I put in large capitals cuz Palopu is old and cant get see the important words well)â
You are attacking the person, not the ideas.
2. City of PG workers are not the highest paid in the province (YOU always state that but NEVER show facts) and in fact are middle of the road compared to other Municipalities.
So, here are the rates. You are right, PG does not have the highest rate, Fernie and Kitimat do. THEN comes Prince George. (the capitalization, in case anyone is confused with that is for emphasis since there is no way of doing that otherwise on this site).
http://princegeorge.ca/infocentre/communications/Media%20Releases/Media_Release_-_CPG_wage_comparisons_Nov2013.pdf
I selected the following after PG based on the city sizes, all having much higher cost of housing rates which is the single largest cost of living expense for most people.
Fernie 28.36
Kitimat 28.01
Prince George 26.84
Delta 25.23
Burnaby 24.96
Kamloops 24.09
Kelowna 23.73
Victoria 23.32
3. You show how clearly upset and biased you are because your employer didn’t give you a wage increase….or you don’t have the job skills to be competitive….or your just straight out jealous of city Workers and you hide it all under your mask of I’M JUST A CONCERNED TAXPAYER
You make three unfounded assumptions which relate to human factors which cannot be proven rather than economic factors which are under discussion and can be proven.
In other words, you use diversion since you have shown so far that you cannot argue on the factual points.
Not only are PG wage rates for labourers the third highest on the list, but what people in Penticton wanted, and got, some people in PG also want – a roll back of wages to something closer than other industries pay.
Notice that Pentictonâs collective agreement for labourers grandfathers current employees at $23.26 and brings in new employees at $18.18 with a 1% increase after a year for both. That is what some people on this site want.
I will not address the rest of your ad hominem attacks.
If you wish to gain some credibility, please stick to the issues.
middle finger and JohnnyBelt, do you really think that good old Mattyc has resurfaced??
I could have sworn that his mother ship came down and took him back to his planet! Perhaps they then realized that they really didn’t want him back and knowing that we wouldn’t want him back either, maybe they re-branded him as CrysBaron and brought him back when we weren’t watching??
OMG, do you think??
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