Safe and happy week end to all.
metalman.

City was hauling snow from CN centre thurs afternoon–not sure why as snow piles took up 20 parking spaces and the rest of parking was cleared including overflow–ie. there was approx. 2000 spaces cleared!!! I think this effort to clear a pile would have been better invested in other city areas.. lack of common sense..

Bill Gaal says you folks are expecting to much in snow plowing. He says don’t expect to have your road plowed the next day. Hey Bill it would be nice if plowed inside of two weeks and the sidewalk at least once this winter. Hey Bill you communicating from Mexico?

So folks it’s all your fault.

It must have been Skakun’s comment that prompted civic workers to get out of the lunch room and get to work…..sheeeeesh.

Yesterday morning on way dtn about 645am, a fully loaded logging truck was going hundred k going down Peden Hill… Go figure..

All you city workers are doing a wonderful job….don’t mind the little people remarks. Apparently all they got to do in their life’s is complain. Great work Brian. Bill Gaal take your share of responseabilaty, quit blaming the city workers.

I agree turnmycrank, Wednesday night a plow truck sanded my street and two hours later the grader arrived to plow my street. Who is coordinating this work? The managers!!

Ohhh aren’t the city workers fabulous/?? More money, less brawns.

A little responsibility comes with your 155K per year salary Mr.Gaal. Accept it or turn the salary over to someone who will. Just sayin.

This is something I believe should be of major concern to all of us:

“”It must be about ideology. Nothing else fits,” said Hutchings. “What that ideology is, is not clear. Does it reflect that part of the Harper government that doesn’t think government should be involved in the very things that affect our lives? Or is it that the role of government is not to collect books or fund science?” Hutchings said the closures fit into a larger pattern of “fear and insecurity” within the Harper government, “about how to deal with science and knowledge.”

Many scientists have compared the war on environmental science to the rise of fascism in 1930s Europe. Hutchings muses, “you look at the rise of certain political parties in the 1930s and have to ask how could that happen and how did they adopt such extreme ideologies so quickly, and how could that happen in a democracy today?”

This is from today’s Huffington Post Canada regarding the Harper government’s purging of hundreds of a thousands of carefully collected marine environment data banks, some going back to the 1800’s.

how in the world can Gaal say we expect too much. Most of us dont get our streets plowed within 2 weeks of snow and we expect too much. There is no excuse for the roads being this bad and taking this long. Get off your arse and do your job Gaal.

Posted by: grayone on January 17 2014 5:51 AM
I agree turnmycrank, Wednesday night a plow truck sanded my street and two hours later the grader arrived to plow my street. Who is coordinating this work? The managers!!

—————–

The grader guy was probably delayed and since the sand truck guy is not allowed to think for himself he just “did his job” without realizing that it didn’t make any sense.

Mayor says complainers should move… Gaal says some people have come to expect immediate relief after a snow fall. Any one at city hall have a sense of proportion? A grip on reality? People can’t just move and most people would just like snow clearing in a timely manner..

The mayor is right! I followed her advise and am very happy in Calgary. I pray for the good people of PG every day and hope things will turn for you soon.

We live on the Hart.. Street was plowed Dec 14 and not again until Jan 12. Wonder what the snow fall was in that month. I just want to be able to get to work each day to make the money I need to pay my taxes. Not asking for much am I??

When did the population of PG turn into a bunch of whiners when it comes to winter? I thought we used to pride ourselves on thriving in the winter. Now, we’re a bunch of 3 year olds.

PG used to thrive in the winter because you could guarantee a grader would come by within hours, not WEEKS, of a major snowfall. Dealing with cold temperatures and icy roads is not the problem. Dealing with impassable routes everywhere IS the problem.

PG used to have city management that would look after priorities like plowing, infrastructure, garbage, etc. Somewhere along the line–we’ll say Kinsley forward–it instead became about ridiculous white elephant projects, pissing money away on pie in the sky ventures, and travelling all over the world under the guise of city business.

Make no mistake JB, the citizens of PG are hearty winter folk. They are just sick and tired of the useless people who allegedly run the city. I remember the good old days of the 70’s and 80’s when you could count on a grader even on a non-transit route, very soon after a major dump. You went out and shoveled the berm at the end of your driveway and voila, you could actually commute without a lifted 4X4 vehicle.

We had a loader on our street for 4 and a half hours yesterday. I’ve never heard such a racket. We left to do errands and came back to snow pushed about 10ft back and a 6 inch wide trench dug from the giant puddle on the corner to the storm drain about 7ft away. Cannot believe that took 4 and a half hours and at least 3 people I saw to do.

I wouldn’t mind doing the berm at the bottom if snow removal was done normally but when its weeks or a month between plows, its kind of hard to move a 3ft wide by 3ft high pile of ice, with some chunks as big as footballs.

When you go through 3 major snowfalls before seeing any snow removal, and that is also through 3 garbage days (which according to Gall, is the route priority they use for snow removal) that isn’t whining, that is just the facts. Are you seriously thinking that would be good enough for anyone who doesn’t live in an apt? And just before you go there, WE do pay extra for snow removal, WE did agree to an increase in the snow removal tax to get our driveways cleared, so don’t use the excuse we have to pay more. It is bad management, pure and simple.

Heres what will happen. New graders coming, more staff coming, possibly even a change in management, all to get the roads in great shape and quiet the masses. This of course will be followed closely by a large increase in taxes for the masses to complain about… round and round we go.

Happy Friday!

and then I read “huhs” post about complaining about complainers – oooops
hahaha

i don’t think i’m complaining when I am a little upset that I live in lakewood, near a school, and our street has been plowed ONCE since snow started falling. then this morning i see a front end loader next to books and company going back and forth about 50 times trying to scrape some of the ruts down on about 3 parking spots exclusively used by customers of the store. not that this shouldn’t be taken care of, but considering what else is out there to be taken care of, it just made me scratch my head. scratched my head until it started to bleed…

That is not the City … that is Books and Company. They pay enough and on time.

Gus. The front end loader was clearing the street beside Books and Co. it is a City Street. So I doubt that Books and Co would be paying for it.

There is no doubt we have lost control of how, when, where, and why we remove snow in this City.

The present snow conditions in some areas of the City can only be described as **dangerous**

For JohnnyBelt to have a cavalier attitude about this situation, and to imply that those who complain are three year olds, shows where he is coming from. I’m sure that Gaal and some others would love to have more JohnnyBelts, so that they could carry on with the poor service, without any complaints.

I suggest that people go to the Council meeting Monday night when Gaal makes his report, and see first hand how he, and council will deal with this problem.

JB .. “When did the population of PG turn into a bunch of whiners when it comes to winter?”

That is easy to answer, when service levels dropped.

I came in September 1973 from Ottawa. I could not go skiing on Tabor until after Xmas due to the lack of snow. The temperatures were cold enough to make snow for the entire month, but they had no snowmaking equipment. Shock number one.

The next shock came when the snows came in early 1974. By March 4th we were above the previous record of 132.8 inches (337.3 cm). PG was sitting at 362cm by that date. I do not know what it got to, but it still stands as far as I know.

I had no complaints about snow removal and I was unaware about any others complaining. There was no reason to. The snow was cleared reasonably well and the downtown sidewalks were covered with canopies on the main shopping streets.

I was able to get around town with my Corolla without any trouble, and that was when they were still rear wheel drive with the engine weight in the front. But then, coming from Ottawa, I knew how to drive in the snow. I had never heard so much spinning of tires in my life!

BTW, 1974 was also the year when the A&W roof collapsed – March 11, 1974 – see front page of PG Citizen of that date.. It was designed for the then snow load of just under 60lbs/sf.

Luckily we had better people than Bill Gaal handling City operation in those days. Having Chester Jeffery as City Manager helped a lot too.

You can work a bit harder on your situational awareness, JB. It is a major weakness you are displaying.

BTW, that shock that I had about the amount of snow that was falling here is that people thought it was far too much. Based on Ottawa snowfalls in those days, it was not. It was more like normal.

I was married on Ottawa between Xmas and New Year. We had a major snowfall that day. We were able to get around to all our venues without any major inconvenience. Ottawa starts plowing when the storm starts, not when it is over. They still do. They have not changed their standards as far as I can tell.

Well said, Gus! Methinks City Hall is going to be packed on Monday night!

gus: “That is easy to answer, when service levels dropped.”

There is a story about Mayor Mercer in the 70’s shutting down snow removal entirely due to budget restraints. He basically said that it’s all going to melt in the spring anyway, so what’s the big deal?

Sounds like an urban legend to me JohnnyBelt.

I was here is the 70’s and don’t recall any significant snow problems.

O.k., please save the city (us) some money and ask them not to plow YOUR street at all (never) since it is going to melt in the spring anyway! Not a big deal but a dollar here, a dollar there….

gus: “You can work a bit harder on your situational awareness, JB. It is a major weakness you are displaying.”

Thanks for the ‘advice’. Clearly I struck a nerve with people with my comments. That’s what happens sometimes when people are confronted with brutal honesty.

This is why truthful politicians don’t get elected. People don’t want to hear the truth.

JohnnyBelt. I suspect you have a 4×4 as I do but as I look around not everyone here has one. Second I have been in areas this year where I could not get through. It is easy to see life is great when you have a vehicle or live in an area that is plowed. My question is what about the 50 or 60% of the population of Prince George who are not in your situation? What happens when you are suddenly living in the area that is not plowed for weeks or your 4×4 is in the the shop because of the pounding due to the road conditions? I suspect you will be the first to complain.

Got land? Thank your bank, real estate agent and good credit and the fact you saved enough for a down payment and have an adequate income to convince a bank to give you a 30 year mortgage. Put that on a shirt.

Want to know why every Norwegian is a millionaire, and why Alberta cannot balance its books?Read this-

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/01/15/If-Every-Norwegians-a-Millionaire-Whys-Alberta-in-Hock/

To Turnmycrank… Heyyy I do shovel my driveway entrance plus part of the street so I can back out my car.. But they keep charging me for coming around..I even help my neighbours..

Turnaround is fair play. How about a shirt that says, “Got wheels? Thank a “settler.”

Had my street plowed today. First time since before Christmas. Two graders made 3 passes each around the block. The “city owned” loader clearing driveways cleared everyone’s driveway out 3 times each in both directions. Why would the loader not wait until the graders were done, then do the job once?

Who is running the show down there?

Comment Posted by: Stillsmokin on January 17 2014 5:08 AM
Yesterday morning on way dtn about 645am, a fully loaded logging truck was going hundred k going down Peden Hill… Go figure..
——————————————

How do you know how fast it was going?

Herbster, thanks for changing the subject. I have commented about this disparity to others for a long time! If there ever was a brutal truth – this is one that Canadians definitely don’t want to hear or face!

All to the contrary, we are being told that these resources being extracted and exported from the bitumen deposits are the best thing since the invention of sliced bread! We get some crumbs that fall under the table, if we are lucky!

In the meantime eastern Canada imports its oil from foreign countries!

Gaal attributes his snow clearing problems to the recorded snowfalls the 10th, 11th and 12th He uses the station to the west of the sewage treatment plant as the measuring gauge, which is not the best location since there is an escarpment just to the west of that station.
http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&Prov=BC&StationID=636&dlyRange=1975-11-01|2014-01-15&Year=2013&Month=12&Day=01#legendT
This is the period from Dec 10 to Dec 19 showing daily snowfall (rain during warmer days) snow on ground as well as mean temperatures.
Tue, Dec 10 snowfall = 10cm; snow on ground = 8cm; mean temp -5.0°C
Wed, Dec 11 snowfall = 24cm; snow on ground = 16cm; mean temp -2.8°C
Thurs, Dec 12 snowfall = 8.6cm; snow on ground = 35cm; mean temp -2.0°C
Fri, Dec 13 snowfall = Trace of rain + snow; snow on ground = 34cm; mean temp 2.0°C
Sat, Dec 14 rain = 2.4mm; snow on ground = 28cm; mean temp 2.8°C
Sun, Dec 15 rain = 0mm; snow on ground = 26cm; mean temp 3.0°C
Mon, Dec 16 snowfall = 2.8cm; snow on ground = 24cm; mean temp 0.5°C
Tues, Dec 17 snowfall = 2.4cm; snow on ground = 26cm; mean temp 3.3°C
Wed, Dec 18 snowfall = 0cm; snow on ground = 28cm; mean temp -7.0°C
Thurs, Dec 19 snowfall = 10.6cm; snow on ground = 26cm; mean temp -11.5°C

The way I see Gaal’s problem is that he had 3 days of significant snowfall up to and including Thursday, September 12. He does not say when they started to plow. Likely not on December 10th, since the new standard was no plowing till 12.5 cm hits the ground. In fact, he would not know that until Wednesday, December 11. So, did he start plowing on the 10th, 11th or 12th. He does not say that in his report.
Then he was faced with 5 straight days of mean daily temperatures above freezing. We can all remember those, I think. Those were 5 of the most important days. They included 2 weekend days. There were two options: clean the streets 24/7 every day to get rid of the slush in as many locations as possible, especially the low traffic areas because those were the areas which had the greatest ruts and potential to cause vehicle damage when the cold would return or let it sit and hope that lots of it melts away so that it would not have to be plowed away or transported away.

Gaal has displayed that he has no street smarts. He does not understand the consequences which happened because of his procrastination.

We need someone who knows what they are doing to head up that department or at least someone who has people reporting to him that know what they are doing and he respects them and listens to them.

His report is useless. He provides no solutions other than to lower our expectations. A high school student could do better.

“One more thing”, as Detective Columbo would say, “Got horses? Thank the Spanish”. apparently the Spanish brought horses to North America. By the way, thanks for tobacco. It worked out to be a swell gift.

“How do you know how fast it was going?”

He was following him …. ;-)

So, I have been around PG since 1959!!!
These ‘streets’ are returning to cow paths!!!
And trust me, I have been paying my taxes.
Progress-not so much!!
Mr. Gaal has a lot of GALL, calling us all whiners!!! He Needs to find a job in Lotus land?!!
Now, to a brighter note–isn’t the sunshine nice!!

Comment Posted by: Huh on January 17 2014 8:24 AM
Just ignore him. JB watches what way the tide is and then simply goes against it and then pats himself on the back for being such a forward thinking maverick. Its typical behaviour of all self congratulating narcissists. They don’t actually add anything to a debate, they just make themselves feel better by complaining about the people THEY perceive to be complainers. It’s quite a hypocritical stance really.
———————————

Hit the nail on the head there!

“Why would the loader not wait until the graders were done, then do the job once?”

That would be analogous to workers “leaning on their shovels” while their foreman is in the trench checking something out. Besides, they may have on board GPS that relays their static condition to Gaal’s office. ;-)

JB wrote: “People don’t want to hear the truth.”

Looks to me like you are one of them. Do you ever get any problems solved? Of course not … you never have any problems … you just grin and bear it and complain about others who can see that improvements can be made.

to herbster

great link – and it is just sad, to see, how cheap we are giving away our resources.

Drove up Domano today… was a bit of a double take as they used the snowblower to remove the windrow and last night must have plowed up a new windrow

The left hand doesn’t seem to know what the right hand is doing

Herbster’s comment and link that every Norwegian is a bit of a spin.

They are millionaires in Norwegian currency which is less than $180,000 thousand.

In addition, the money does not belong to individuals. It is the state’s money.

Why pick on Norway? Why not on the North African oil rich countries who have been n that situation for decades?

It is the state’s oil, just as our oil belongs to Alberta, not Canada.

Trudeau tried to get access to more oil money for the country, but failed. He also tried a national oil company, but failed.

The Tyee is a left wing news agency. We are not a left wing country. Therein lies the problem.

Geeez …. that should red “Herbster’s comment and link that every Norwegian is a millionaire is a bit of a spin
:-(

@ herbster

If Norway had Quebec and the 6 other welfare provinces strapped to their leg they would be in a different situation too. Quebec alone recieved $8 billion last year. Canada does not publish data on how much money each province put in (only what each province takes out) so it is impossible to say who contributes the most but clearly it would be Alberta or Ontario at number 1 (Ontario does take money out, but they take out less than they put in, so they are still net contributers). BC, Sask and NFLD would scrap it out for contributor spots 3 through 5.

So the fact that some provinces are forced to support the welfare provinces is certainly one issue that makes tyee’s argument nonsense. Canada is failing as a country. Alberta is not failing as a province.

So there is a snowblower …. strange that Gaal does not list it as part of the equipment in his report. The City web page also does not list it. Maybe they rent it.

Brian (ahem) Skakun has a list of where the machines are going for the shift on his facebook page now (as does Cameron Stolz – haven’t seen his but it has been mentioned). They also list where the blower is going to be. There also is a grader operator on holidays so most nights they only ran one, that explanation is also on their facebook pages.

I just thought that seeing as we have no snow on the forecast they would plow the road before the blower came in to remove the existing windrow… I doubt it will be back until after the next large snowfall (or a few small ones) and now there is a windrow and piles at the entrances to roadways again a day after the blower went through and got rid of the old windrow,

gus: “Looks to me like you are one of them. Do you ever get any problems solved? Of course not … “

Neither do the constant complainers on this site. What was your point exactly? It is all too easy to criticise and identify problems without offering any solutions.

Gus, once a contract has been signed with a company (domestic and foreign) that gives it the right to access, exploit and export the bitumen the resource is no longer ours! The company pays a royalty which was agreed upon in the contract. IT also pays provincial and federal taxes and it employs staff. The staff pays income taxes.

It does not matter whether it is done by a left wing or right wing government, in fact the company doesn’t give much of a hoot as long as both sides honour the agreement and as long as the company gets its profits, to be reinvested here or exported overseas.

And yes, the Norwegian total of close to a trillion stashed away in a heritage fund is the equivalent in dollars.

Posted by: ntkr13 on January 17 2014 10:49 AM
Mr. Gaal has a lot of GALL, calling us all whiners!!!
————————

That does appear to be the trend at our city hall these days, to call out people as being whiners and troublemakers. There is no “customer is always right” or sorry we are trying our very best and thanks for hanging in there, just “don’t email me again on this issue you whiner”…

I know some of them are in high stress jobs but let people know you are working the best you can and thanks for the input and move on with the job incorporating as much of that input into the daily workings as you can so they feel ‘listened to’

Perhaps they do need media relations experts at a few hundred grand a year

Good one Gus… Thanks “was following him””

Guess this means it’s no big deal to hear of a big load barreling down a hill at that speed considering all the accidents we been hearing bout lately involving big trucks.. BUT… let’s just go kill the messenger :)

While the Tyee may be a “left wing” site, the facts are indisputable. Canada gives its resources away for pennies on the dollar, lacks R&D, and is selling future generations resources to cover todays bills. The series that is linked off that story is a good read, and ideologies aside, the numbers don’t lie. Canada has been veering away from its European socially democratic history and parroting the U.S. style economics of boom and bust, corporatism, and a growing disparity between rich and poor.

While the Norwegian way may not be Canada’s solution, theres definitely lessons in its success.

Like how their open net pen salmon farming has devastated the wild salmon population in Norway and has spread to Canada and south america?

Herbster said every Norwegian is a millionaire.

The link to the article he provides is dated January 2014.

The headline says, “If Every Norwegian’s a Millionaire, Why’s Alberta in Hock?”

The article goes on to say “A recent news item showed that Norway’s massive pot of petroleum money, now totaling CA$909.364 billion, has made every citizen a millionaire in Norwegian kroner. That works out to about $178,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.”

I was disputing the opinion about every Norwegian being a millionaire. So, they are not. And neither can any Norwegian claim that money.

On to the notion of a government that is socialist. The following is from the articles:

“By owning 70 per cent of their own oil production and taxing oil revenues at close to 80 per cent, Norway is now saving about $1 billion per week.”

So which democratic right wing country is in that situation? Dictatorships and absolute monarchies do not count.

Norway forbids salmon farms in many areas, to protect their wild fish. They farm in other countries, that care less about their stocks.

Not sure what that has to do with giving away resources though.

http://www.visitnorway.com/us/What-to-do/Active-holiday/Fishing-in-Norway/Salmon-rivers/

Govsux wrote: “Canada has been veering away from its European socially democratic history and parroting the U.S. style economics of boom and bust, corporatism, and a growing disparity between rich and poor. “

Could not agree with you more.

Conversely, which democratic right wing countries have a government that has no debt, great social programs, 5 weeks vacation for all citizens, and consistently holds top positions for quality of life etc. in international studies? Canada used to be in the running. its been a slippery slope for us during the last few years. hold on to your hats, its about to get worse.

Personally, I prefer a Canada just to the right of centre. I’m doing very well in todays Canada. Many are not. I judge a country’s wealth by how it takes care of those most in need. This is not my parent’s Canada.

I do not know who Gus is, but he/she is a bigger pain in the ass then the snow removal situation. Can I get a hell ya if you agree ?

So all is well in the EU dominated European economy, ya right.

Never implied that, but thanks for the constructive criticism. Very helpful.

To continue the Theme “Got Matches” thank a Settler.

Born in BC:

If Canada is failing as a country, it is because the Conservatives in Alberta and Ottawa are idiots and/or suckers who cannot do basic math. Alberta is exporting over 2 million barrels of oil a day, yet is projected to run a deficit of over $20 billion this year and the next. If an NDP government ever ran a deficit of this size there would be howls of outrage- somehow when Conservatives do it is alright. Personally I think that Conservatives have no moral compass, no sense of shame. Rob Ford should be their poster boy.

Eastern Canada imports 1.2 million barrels of oil/day at world price. If they got Alberta oil at the same price Alberta sells it to the US for (WTI-$30), you are looking at an annual cost savings for have-not provinces of $15 billion/year, which is more than they received from equalization payments last year.

So if this country is failing, it is because of a lack of leadership in Ottawa and Alberta, not because the rest of Canada is a parasite livinf off of Alberta’s money.

Furthermore if you ever worked in the oil patch, you would realize that is run to a large extent by people from Eastern Canada. Alberta would have achieved very little but for the efforts and hard work from other Canadians who travel long ways to make the oil patch happen.

I agree OutWest. For people who claim we ruined their culture they sure enjoy our modern innovations

agree with herbster and govsux – but some do not get it.
They just can see, what happens now, but now what will happen in the future.

I do not know who Vikingnuck is, but we could start with Gaal’s alter ego …. ;-)

“Then he was faced with 5 straight days of mean daily temperatures above freezing. We can all remember those, I think. Those were 5 of the most important days. They included 2 weekend days. There were two options: clean the streets 24/7 every day to get rid of the slush in as many locations as possible, especially the low traffic areas because those were the areas which had the greatest ruts and potential to cause vehicle damage when the cold would return or let it sit and hope that lots of it melts away so that it would not have to be plowed away or transported away.

Gaal has displayed that he has no street smarts. He does not understand the consequences which happened because of his procrastination.”

==================================

We ran into a similar situation with many big dumps of snow (they were cleared quickly mind you) and then it warmed up to above zero. At this point, the crews were out cutting down snowbanks and cleaning all of the residual slush off of the roads, even though there was NO impediment to actually driving through it. The whole point was to get the streets BARE again before the cold set in and created ice ridges. The crews did a great job.

As a post Christmas bonus, while it was still above zero THE POTHOLE CREWS were called out so that they could focus on road repair across the city, LOL!!!!

The last time I checked Ottawa recorded slightly more snow than PG during December.

Posted by: Vikingnuck on January 17 2014 12:41 PM
I do not know who Gus is, but he/she is a bigger pain in the ass then the snow removal situation. Can I get a hell ya if you agree ?

—————–

I quite like gus. It’s rare these days to find someone who believes in giving his informed opinion rather then just spouting off about something.

Hell No

Well considering Norway has a little more than the population of BC and taxes are 43% of GDP and most of the country is in welfare state. Their annual surplus is 10-13 percent of their GDP – so if we all accept a 10% jump in our taxes we could be exactly the same as our taxes are about 32% of our GDP (wiki).

Their gas taxes on exports are 181 billion of 909 billion NOK in tax revenue or about 33 billion canadian dollars, ours are about 22 billion dollars annually

Norway exports 2 million barrels a day of oil, all their oil is from offshore rigs using undersea pipelines – they have permission to spill 600 liters of oil per day (close to 4 barrels) into the ocean from just one platform called the Draugen. These spills are not even noted, just considered normal.

Hibernia just had a MAJOR leak from Dec18th to Jan 1st (15 days) of 6000 liters and shut down all tanker loading and production cut back for now. If this was in Norway the amount spilled is +/- 400 liters a day and would be considered acceptable by the government.

Wonder if Neil Young will take his dog and pony show to China?

herbster out side of Ford’s personal life you should read about what he did with Toronto,s budget.

Herbster over 10% of oil sands work force is native and who could be the richest native in the country made his money with oil sands support companies. Just adding facts.

“If Norway had Quebec and the 6 other welfare provinces strapped to their leg they would be in a different situation too. Quebec alone recieved $8 billion last year. Canada does not publish data on how much money each province put in (only what each province takes out) so it is impossible to say who contributes the most but clearly it would be Alberta or Ontario at number 1 (Ontario does take money out, but they take out less than they put in, so they are still net contributers). BC, Sask and NFLD would scrap it out for contributor spots 3 through 5.

So the fact that some provinces are forced to support the welfare provinces is certainly one issue that makes tyee’s argument nonsense. Canada is failing as a country. Alberta is not failing as a province.”

===================================

Okay, now for another view on things let’s look at the gross domestic product (GDP) or the market value of goods and services produced within each Province/Territory from 2012:

GDP by Province (in millions) for 2012:

Ontario $674,485
Quebec $357,859
Alberta $311,898
BC $219,994
Saskatchewan $77,929
Manitoba $58,245
Nova Scotia $38,397
Newfoundland & Labrador $33,817
New Brunswick $31,543
Prince Edward Island $5,547
Northwest Territories $4,675
Yukon $2,631
Nunavut $2,198

Interesting eh? Looks to me like Canada still very much relies on Ontario and Quebec to keep the lights on . . .

Norway is a welfare state, with a government surplus and 3.+% unemployment. High wages, high taxes, high cost of living. High quality of life.

Seamutt

Very surprised to find a Rob Ford supporter in Prince George. I thought the Ford Nation fools were limited to Ontario. Maybe he is a Conservative poster boy after all!

I am glad to hear that the richest native made his money in the oilsands. Does that makes up for every single other Canadian getting fleeced by inept Conservative leadership?

The hidden tragedy of the oilsands is that is all a house of cards. Without artificially cheap LNG, the input costs (of natural gas alone) to produce a barrel of SAGD oil would be $36 instead of $8 they presently pay. Given that the price for Western Canadian Select has dropped to a low of $60/ barrel last year, oilsands profitability is Conservative propaganda.

Last year Alberta made more money off the taxes selling tobacco, than they did on the royalties from natural gas.

Wiki in case you were wondering:

A welfare state is a concept of government in which the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens.

The welfare state is funded through redistributionist taxation and is often referred to as a type of “mixed economy”. Such taxation usually includes a larger income tax for people with higher incomes, called a progressive tax. This helps to reduce the income gap between the rich and poor

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/national/Canadian+federal+government+opens+door+more+fish+farms/9392417/story.html

I wonder if DFO has any research they could tap into in order to evaluate the impacts of expanded fish farming on wild stocks?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/purge-of-canadas-fisheries-libraries-a-historic-loss-scientists-say/article16237051/

Huh. Well that’s not very useful.

Two questions for you all:

1) What is going on Ogrady behind the mall?

2) What is going on with the Mr.G store and carwash at the bottom of Peden hill?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-heads-to-israel-with-taxpayer-funded-delegation-1.2500850

And in an amazing turn of events, Palestinians and Israelis banded together in peace to ask of John Baird:

“Who are you and why are you yelling at us?”

LOL :)

John who?

My street has not been plowed yet this year. I called city hall about it a few days ago and informed them my wife is due in a few weeks and her car hasn’t been able to get down my street for nearly two weeks now, and my truck sometimes gets stuck trying to ram through the snow bank blocking the street they left when they plowed the adjacent crescent.

Its bloody ridiculous. They are out clearing parking lot snow banks and yet they can’t find a loader to simply clear the snow they left blocking our cul-de-sac much less plow the damn thing. I tried to keep it clear with a snow blower, but the it doesn’t cut into the snow bank they left behind.

Just one loader for five minutes to clear the entrance is all I’m asking for, but its PG in 2014 I guess.

Too bad Opinion 250 didn’t have a “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” button on each comment. That would probably eliminate much of the negative comments on other people’s opinions.
Saw a minor miracle today – a grader and loader were clearing Thatcher Cres!!!
On the Tyee article re: Norway’s fiscal prudence, I have to admire them. That, and their gorgeous curling pants.
Have a great weekend everybody.

eagleone: No one should put up with this, what does it take for this City to take Action, (Storm at the Bastille or in this Case City Hall ?). I wonder who is in charge
in PG?
Even out here you can’t walk down our Road ,it’s a Sheet of ICE, have to consider moving South, getting to old for this PS.

Anyone with a Canadian birth certificate is a millionaire many times over !

The Harper trip to Israel is nothing more than a programing trip to get the political zionists all online and up to date on the latest propaganda for the globalist corpocracy. A country that Canadians should be boycotting, like the Europeans are moving towards, and not rewarding with our largest foreign trade delegation of the Harper government.

Expect Harper to fail to stand up for Canadian values of equality before the law and multiculturalism, and instead defend racist policies of the Israeli government in an us verse them point of view. Expect Harper to forward the role of belligerence in the region.

Next week we will find out what Harpers marching orders are from Tel Aviv.

Outwest I have no faith left in how this city is run. If I still live in PG next fall its only because I will want to change things at city hall in the next election, but I have pretty much given up on PG already now under its current leadership.

Hey herbster read my post again and show me where I said I was a Ford supporter. Before you call someone a fool learn how to comprehend English. I was just stating a fact.

So what’s wrong with cheaper natural gas? You got an issue with Costco bringing down the cost of gasoline? You got an issue with our cheaper electricity, though the fibs are screwing that up.

Oh by the way the oil sands use natural gas not LNG which stands for liquefied natural gas.

WOW…
overwhelming….
not sure what to say…
so I won’t
have a great weekend all…. as least there isn’t supposd to be any more snow for awhile.

Seamutt:

You are a Rob Ford supporter. You like his propaganda on Toronto’s budget. Which he did not in fact decrease. Like most of Rob Ford, and the Conservatives for that matter, the bulls*t baffles most small brains. Here is what Rob Ford has actually accomplished.

[url]http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/robford/2013/11/08/deconstructing_mayor_rob_fords_fiscal_record.html[/]

What is wrong with cheap natural gas? I will ask you then what is wrong with cheap oil from Alberta? Why build a pipeline to Kitimat or Vancouver, if it is only going to increase the price of Alberta oil?

Oilsands do in fact use NG not LNG.Mea Culpa!Typo!

oops

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/robford/2013/11/08/deconstructing_mayor_rob_fords_fiscal_record.html

Herbster. They started exploiting the Oilsands around 1967. Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have been in power a number of times since then.

Soooo. Spread the blame around. Harper has big shoulders, however its not all his fault. (if there is any fault).

As far as Alberta goes. I suggest that they could care less what you think about them. In fact I suggest that you visit Alberta and go to a few Chamber meetings and tell them what you think. I doubt if you would be very well received.

Just heard that Canadian Freightways in Prince George has closed its doors. A large number of people will lose their jobs between Pr George and Pr Rupert.

So much for the booming economy.

Yes 80 people in PG being laid off. If the economy is on the verge of such a big ‘boom’, then wouldn’t the largest shipping company in the region know of this, and want to be around to capitalize on it?

Seems odd to me. Something doesn’t add up.

The economy is just fine, freightways was their own worst enemy. Another firm was extremely excited to take over their routes west to rupert and the edmonton run. It just created a lot more jobs and expansion that also sent a lot of money to city hall. There is a bunch of new equipment purchases locally as well. Now maybe someone will bulldoze that eyesore of a freightways yard over and build a facility that at least meets the building code and maybe will employ more people and spruce up that corner of the business community.

If Alberta’s tar sands industry is so essential and a great boon to the province why does Alberta have a health care crisis and why is Alberta running up budget deficits?

If Alberta can’t reap sufficient rewards from it why would anyone think that the rest of the country must be overwhelmed by feelings of awe and wonder?

Palopu, I work in Alberta all the time. In the oilpatch. I know what I am talking about. That’s why I live in BC.

Lougheed started the oilsands. He was opposed to the way they were developed. As are many Albertans.

The first sign of impending collapse is when people start denying. The oilsands numbers don’t add up, neither does Albertas’ finances. Numbers don’t lie, everyone knows it is a house of cards, but everyone plans on making their money fast and getting out. Everyone knows that a cookie cutter suburban box house in Calgary is not worth $1 million, but everyone plans on getting out and flipping it to a greater fool before everything goes to hell.

So much for Harpers great lie, and the fools that line up behind it.

The mayor is right! I followed her advise and am very happy in Calgary. I pray for the good people of PG every day and hope things will turn for you soon.

Norway’s curling pants:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ux5wy3xY1r1thtao1_1280.jpg

Canada’s curling pants:
http://cloudfront6.curling.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mixed-doubles-Rnd-16-Thomas-pants-resized1.jpg

“Comment Posted by: Huh on January 17 2014 8:24 AM
Just ignore him. JB watches what way the tide is and then simply goes against it and then pats himself on the back for being such a forward thinking maverick. Its typical behaviour of all self congratulating narcissists. They don’t actually add anything to a debate, they just make themselves feel better by complaining about the people THEY perceive to be complainers. It’s quite a hypocritical stance really.
———————————

Hit the nail on the head there!”
=============================================
Better be careful or the censor cops will pull this comment of yours like they pulled my original one. I have no idea why they did, I have seen a lot worse on here.

lbear: “Too bad Opinion 250 didn’t have a “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” button on each comment. That would probably eliminate much of the negative comments on other people’s opinions. “

All it would prove is that if you’re not part of the mob, you’ll get voted down.

Huh: “Better be careful or the censor cops will pull this comment of yours like they pulled my original one. “

“Censor cops” – you mean the owners and administrators of the site? It’s their site, they can pull any comment they want. Usually they do so with good reason.

A cult indeed!

Where is the Ministry of Children and Family development?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/chillwack-family-blames-rcmp-for-failing-to-return-their-daughter-1.2501557?cmp=rss

Hmmm, the catholic church? Get outta here!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-benedict-defrocked-400-priests-in-2-years-document-reveals-1.2500967?cmp=rss

Ya they censored my comment earlier too. It was not out of line at all and politely stated

When I worked in forestry as a timber cruiser, I used to stay in a tent while on shift. I met a very nice man and his wife at the camp site we were staying at. Went hunting and fishing for a few day with them and my crew from work. One day we got back to see they had packed up and left while we were at work. When I entered my tent I found about a dozen watch tower magazines and other books about there religion. I felt that was strange they never mentioned anything to me and an invasion of my privacy the way they went about it

“It must have been Skakun’s comment that prompted civic workers to get out of the lunch room and get to work…..sheeeeesh” LOL yeah, like any city worker gives a Dam what the biggest Moron in Council has to say. PREDICTION….the same folks who now are complaing about Shari Green….will be the same ones voting for Skakum next election to RUN the City,(Ya cant seem to find ANYONE that voted for her now lol) ohhhhhh now THAT is a scary notion. Speaks volumes about this City’s mentality of the electorate. Skakum spouts the “man of the people” rhetoric becuase he can…..and folks gobble it up, different story to hand him the keys and say “OK Brian….now that your Mayor lets see You reduce taxes….AND have the streets plowed the second a flake hits!” U think the citys in trouble now lol wait till the whiners show up in spades come election day and buy this guys BS.

Herbster if you follow the Star there is the problem.

Where is the tar in oil sands.

With oil ramping up in the states, Mexico, Russia Liberia and so on maybe all these NGO’s and useful idiots like Young, Suzuki, Weaver will do little protests over there. Oh don’t forget about the Indian chief who got paid by the Tides Foundation and who along with his band is making tens of millions from the oil sands, don’t forget to take him along

With all these ramp ups maybe there will be to much competition and with the costs of environmental rules of which Canada is about the only country with rules compared to those listed. Gateway may get cancelled then I wonder if all those rich celebrities and rich NGO donors will pay the EI to those out of work.

With the news that the core review has saved the city of PG 15 million so far on the television the other day and could go as high as 50 million I am left scratching my head as to why then are taxes going up next year by a minimum of 2.5%…??

Numbers like those tossed around and for sure we will see people voting her back in

Next week the CBC Radio will be talking about the low Income Neighborhood in the VLA. What makes them think everyone in the VLA is low Income and has problems ??Do not paint the whole area with one BIG paint brush. Do some research. There are low income people through out the city. Why are they focusing on one area?

JB always likes to post “suck it up buttercup” troll like posts.

I get my posts deleted too. Like Ben says, if you don’t like me throwing sand in your face in my sandbox……then get out of my sandbox.

Come next fall I’m not going to vote for any current councillor. Time to vote in some new folks!

The law suits start!
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2501051

Gasp! I actually agree with Knowledge88’s last post! Well done!

CBC does research, where, when, amazing.

Ecojustice lawyers representing ForestEthics Advocacy, the Living Oceans Society and the Raincoast Conservation Foundation

So where are funds coming from?

Dam its a good time to be a lawyer, keep the meter running people.

Hey ecojustice why don’t you take your dog and pony show over to Liberia.

For those who have wondered why our “regional climate has been milder for a number of years have a read and bye a warm coat.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/17/cause-of-the-pause-in-global-warming/