70,000 a year plus dental medical pension. 2months off in the summer 2 weeks at xmas plus spring break id strike too.

To overtaxed : I assume that this is a sarcastic comment. It is clear that you would be happy if the least educated and least successful members of our society were responsible for educating the future leaders of this province as long as it was done cheap.

SORRY but we already have the least educated leading our province. HER name is CHRISTY CLARK ex barmaid divorcee top notch wingnut, families first remember

Why is being a divorcee a problem for you CrysBaron/Ice?

And hey, it could always be worse, it could have been Adrian Dix.

I have no problem giving teachers a deserving wage that reflects their hard work. I just ask two things:

1)Make the culls in the group accountable. Even teachers admit (in private) that there are some amongst them who are just mailing it in and waiting for retirement.

2)stop telling me its “for the kids”

Interceptor

Please find an example of where the teachers have said it is for the kids. This is nothing more than right wing propoganda that has been said so many times that many believe it actually originated from teachers. It never did.

Teachers working conditions are in fact student learning conditions. That is a fact and is not the same as “for the kids”

So true Smooth; class size and composition being two examples of learning conditions and teacher working conditions.

Fair enough, I will leave condition #2 out – I suspect it is just a change in wording (spin) anyway as it has lost public support.

The BCTF wants smaller class sizes. A teacher currently being paid $70,000.00 to teach a class of 25 students is being paid $2,800.00 per student.

If the class size is reduced to 20 students, the $70,000.00 salary would then equate to a salary of $3,500.00 per student. That’s $700.00 more per student!

So, the teacher would now have 20% fewer students and presumably 20% less work, but would also be compensated by 25% more per student!

But the BCTF isn’t just asking for reduced class sizes, they are or will be asking for a raise beyond the $70,000.00!

Less work for more money! Nice work if you can get it, but hey, it’s for the kids, right??

If it was for the kids, the BCTF would be asking that any new money in the education budget be used to hire the additional teachers that would be required if class sizes were reduced. But the funny thing is, any new money in the system always seems to go to those already in the system!

The BCTF has yet to table their wage demands. I wonder why???

Hey Hart Guy!
A lot of teachers are called baby sitters, well a certain licensed daycare charges 800/month to baby sit your kid. 800 per month per kid.
25×800= 20,000 per month! Teachers are getting ripped off!

BCTF wants the class size back to where is was before there contract was illegally ripped up!
Not every teacher makes 70k a year and it’s not even the average.

You better get back to your business, you’re losing money!

Hart Guy

There is a major flaw in your statement arguing that 20% fewer students leads to 20% less work. You seem bright enough in most of your posts that you probably noticed it, but chose to intentionally omit it to try and make your argument stronger. Here it is just in case.

20% fewer students actually means each remaining student gets more individual time in class. Outside of class, while there are fewer pieces to mark, it would give more time to provide for descriptive feedback. 20% fewer students particularly when we ease the difficulties in composition of the class is where it really helps. Lessing the load on making individual assignments, assessments, explanations etc. to students with learning difficulties would really provide more time for me to not only provide richer lessons for everyone, but also more class time to help everyone.

The only area where a 20% reduction in students actually provides 20% less work is in the time it takes to do report cards.

The other thing I want to mention about your last post is the part where you brought up the cost of $700 more per student. You even added an exclamation point as if that is a crazy number. Here is the facts for you. British Columbia is $1000 !!!! below the national average in per student funding. I will say it again, that is the number below AVERAGE. Even to shoot to the average we’d have to spend $1000 more per student.

Another point. There goes another rightie bringing up the “for the kids.” I will say it again in case you didn’t read my last post. The only people that ever say that are righties. Unfortunately they have all said it enough they actually believe that teachers started saying it.

One final point that again seems to be hammered on by the right wing over and over despite it being wrong. Do you know that saying something enough doesn’t make it a fact? This point is about not tabling the wage demands. The wage demands were provided last March. They were provided to the BCPSEA. Of course they were let go as the bargaining team. The person that took over (Peter Cameron) either didn’t read the documents or chose to ignore them. The new ED minister also did the same. The BCTF has asked for COLA plus the beginnings of catching up to the other provinces titled a market adjustment.

Here you go Smooth, one from Iker vice pres of the teachers union, one of many, just do a search. All right wing propaganda?

[http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Education/2011/03/23/AbbottAddressesBCTF/]

The quote is “We are under no illusions, but we hope we can make headway for the children of BC.”

That statement certainly doesn’t say it is all about the kids. “It is all about the kids” is a far cry from saying we want to make things better for children. It never said that is all teachers wanted. That is simply the only thing posted in the article. I challenge you again to find a teacher that has said “It is ALL about the kids.”

It is true, teachers do hope to make headway for children in BC. Along with that we hope our working conditions improve, our salary is tied to cost of living, and hopefully at the same time salary gets closer to the average (we arent even asking for average right now). Imagine a union not even asking to be average? That is how bad things are.

I teach, and have done so for 8 years. I have already filed my resignation papers in my Northern district. The plan is the Okanagan. It is the only place in BC that makes it worth being paid so far below those in Alberta. If after 1 year I cannot secure a contract, my wife and I are moving to Alberta. A teacher from my district with the exact same years experience moved to Grande Prairie 2 years ago. She is now making $19,000 more per year than I do. I honestly feel like I have hurt my family staying here this long.

Smooth, some from the “left” side of the political spectrum have suggested to me that if I am not happy with my own income, then perhaps I should have stayed in school, or perhaps I should look for another line of work.

So, in the interests of fairness, I suggest that if a teacher is not happy with their job or their salary, then perhaps they too should consider their options!

My understanding is that our universities are still churning out far more teachers than we have positions for. Might not be too hard to fill any vacated positions!

Just saying….!

Wow slinky actually believes the Liberal government quote; “”We are under no illusions, but we hope we can make headway for the children of BC.”

“Forty-four of B.C.’s 60 school districts have closed 176 schools since 2002, and over 50 more closures are certain or threatened over the next couple of years.”

ttp://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/02/18/SchoolClosures/

That Tyee news article was dated 2010, four years later and we are now up over 200 schools closed in BC.

When this Liberal government cut the BC School Sports monies, then Education Minister Margaret MacDiarmid will forever be known for her comment that perhaps kids can spend more time playing in their community parks.

This government cut the Annual Facilities grant in 2009, which would have paid for much needed school upgrades and repair.

“Teresa Rezansoff, president of the B.C. School Trustees Association, said she was “very disappointed” education was not a priority in the fiscal plan. Vancouver school board chairwoman Patti Bacchus tweeted the budget leaves B.C. with the “lowest per-student public ed funding in country. #shame.”

Added B.C. Teachers’ Federation vice-president Glen Hansman: “All school boards around the province … are going to be having to make more and more cuts in the classroom and that is completely irresponsible at this point.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/money+education+budget/9521826/story.html#ixzz2viRpIRNv

I could go on listing numerous other cuts, freezes, school closures, etc. but I think everyone here agrees this government’s past actions is NOT about “making headway for the children of BC.”

Canada’s middle class is being forced to morgage its future according to recent Conservative report.Wages of middle income earners have stagnated. The wealthy receive substantial tax breaks.The tricke down effect of Reaganomics deregulation of the 80’s has diminished the middle class.Blame govts for giving huge tax breaks to car corps and the Chinese Red Army and then these example corps do not stimulate employment and wage growth. Blame govts for shipping your jobs overseas.Of course the Liberals dont give a rat’s ass about education…its the society equalizer. Joe Lunchbucket’s kids need a poor education to ensure their financial enslavement to jobs that do not sustain a decent living standard. Clark needs to fund private schools where her kid is! ALSO….WHY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE PAYING HIGHER MSP PREMIUMS? To pay the private American corp in the States who stores all your medical info. Remember when Campbell outsourced Hydro billing jobs to the Phillupines?

Teachers,

Anyone who was taught properly, and that can now think for themselves, realize that you’ve been getting the shaft for a long time. The state of our education system is appalling and unfortunately seems to speak to the collective values of our society. Neo liberal ideology has poisoned our conscience and made us weak and apathetic, as we seem willing now to sell out our own children to save a buck or two.

We don’t value education anymore, or educators, or the children that we’re supposed to be developing. After a dozen years of failed leadership, we gone from a bright and shinning star to an abysmal sorry state.

Time to move, and take my tax dollars with me to a place where they’ll be appreciated. I believe a lot of our good teachers have decided the same thing and our children are suffering for it.

Actually. my exam results fron Victoria came in and they were very good. I had some top marks…..and I feel I burned a few calories pushing for these results. Teachers I see everyday are really swell people who work really conscientiously. They have families to feed and mortgages to pay too. Frankly, with some of the nasty comments here… perhaps teachers should spend their overtaxed paycheques elsewhere. Dont spend your money at Hart Guy’s!!!

taxpayerteacher, hate to tell you but teachers do patronize my business. In case you are wondering, yes, they are always the first to ask for a lower price and yes, they are the first to complain if I raise my prices.

Well I wont patronize your business….I have impeccable taste!

Hart Guy

I pointed out several factual errors in one of your posts. You have made a couple posts since then. Why haven’t you defended them. I find it very Christy of you. When someone points out your mistakes you ignore and move on?

And the typical pattern continues; when lefties present cogent logical, fact filled arguments leaving no room for the righties to respond, they change tact and use personal statements.

Next couple of comments from them will degrade into be personal insults and hate filled, jibber jabber. Same old same old.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way though our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ~ Isaac Asimov

Nothing describes more perfectly the stituation we live in today!

Peeps, speaking of typical patterns, I’ll take this opportunity to point out that your “typical pattern” comment seems quite relevant as you on many occasions, have been presented with cogent, logical, fact filled debate (note I didn’t say arguments).

When left with no room for a leftie like you to respond, you become this site’s bully, as I have pointed out to you on numerous occasions. Many on this site have commented that after your condescending attacks, you often run away and hide.

None of this is meant as a personal insult towards you. I’m just pointing out what has become blatantly obvious to many of us.

By the way, I am sure that you would agree that one’s ability to graciously accept a little bit of constructive criticism once in a while would certainly be considered a virtue and would help define one’s character!

Just saying…..!

Sorry Smooth, but I have obviously missed the most recent BCTF wish list of contract demands. If you have that information available, perhaps you could post it here so that I am fully aware of what the BCTF has put on the table.

Global reported a 3 year term.

3% per year + COLA

The 3% per year would have BC teachers catchup to Saskatchewan teachers. COLA would then help BC teachers not lose any more ground to the other provinces. Saskatchewan teachers recently turned down 5.5% over 3 years so they will get at least that amount.

BC teachers aiming for average and no more has to be seen as kind of admirable doesn’t it?

The Governments opening proposal as reported by a leaked document (neither side denies its accuracy) was rough for two reasons. Number 1 is that it does not even match the other recent public sector contracts. Number 2 is it does not keep up with inflation which sees teachers continue lose buying power. Their proposal is:

0.5% at ratification
0.5% at signing of sick leave concessions
1% July 2015
0.5% July 2016
1% May 2017
0.5% July 2017
1% May 2018
0.5% July 2018
1% May 2019
2019-2023 Employer decides using indexing

These come as part of a package that includes major concessions including the agreement to no class size or composition language (crazy considering 12 years of court battles continuously won by teachers), single evaluation terminations at the hands of the Principal with no remediation for unsatisfactory, capped sick leave, no language around school calendar, a second salary grid for any new teacher to the profession, and more.

If we legally can’t have 2 year cell phone contracts, why would anyone agree to a 10 year labour contract?

Ok Smooth, so I googled Global and BCTF and Salary Demands and Contract Negotitions,etc and so far I have been unable to locate the BCTF’s most recent contract demands for this current round of bargaining.

What I did find was article after article after article, most of them being of the “he said, she said” variety!

3% per year + COLA?? Please direct me to this report.

I would like to see all, as in 100% of the bargaining demands as currently put forth by the BCTF. Then let’s see a complete list of the Government’s offer.

How much will a teacher contribute to their pension and how much will the taxpayer contribute? How many sick days does the Union want? How many special leave days? How much time of for bereavement of a family member? How much time off if an old acquaintance or the neighbour down the block passes away, how many professional development days, etc.

Will the employer (taxpayer) pay all or a portion of the teacher’s benefits package?

You catch my drift Smooth? I want the facts, just the facts, not the Governments spin or the Unions spin.

When will Jim Iker release the Union’s complete list of demands or, if he has already, where and what are they?

Another pattern I have noted about righties; they rarely present documented facts to support their assertions, rather they constantly request information from us lefties. Review Hart Guy’s last comment… which contains no less than eight (8) questions!

There-in lies the rub, never presenting facts, because they have none, yet always asking questions of us because they cannot be bothered to look up the answers themselves!