Enough with the rotating crap already!

Walk out…..PERIOD!!!

Let’s talk about “pressure tactics” used in the collective bargaining process. The use of these type of tactic is often equated to “bullying”. So who used pressure tactics first? Yup, the BC Lib-Con Government by putting a gun to the BCTF’s head saying take this deal or we will rollback 10% of your wages!

But that wasn’t it for pressure tactics; this BC Lib-Con government also told the teachers unequivocally; “take this deal by the end of this school year or lose the $1,200 signing bonus we are offering you”.

Nice… two bullying tactics in a row, no wonder 60% of the public think this government is going about bargaining with the teacher’s in a wrong manner. So… should we be surprised the teachers have had enough of the government’s bullying and are now starting to push back with stronger job action?

I am with the 60% majority, and we think the government needs to stop playing games and get down to some serious bargaining!!!

Watch your government dismantle the education system and create the 2 tier system that Christy wants. Parents will really be crying when their children are being taught by the lowest bidder!! Support our teachers!

Union bullying? Say it ain’t so.

The reason that the 10% is being deducted from their pay is because they stopped doing some normal parts of their job. If they are not performing all of their duties then why should they get full pay peeps?

So the bctf bullies said give us what we want or we will only do 90% of our duties while expecting 100% pay. Them bctf bullies better pull the pink t-shirts out of the bottom dresser drawer.

verbal: “Watch your government dismantle the education system”

Let’s just dismantle the BCTF and we will all be far better off. They haven’t played nice with any government the past 30 years, except for the sweetheart deal the NDP signed as they were getting booted out of office.

We need a Reagan. :)

BeingHuman, Peeps, Whatever, you spouted this 60% crap on an earlier thread and now here you are spouting it again, as if it really means anything!

So, for the benefit of those that missed my rebuttal, I’ve copied and pasted it here, as I simply can’t stand by and watch you try to pull the wool over anybody’s eyes!

The poll stated that 63% thought that the Government had done a bad job in this file, BUT it didn’t ask if the 63% support teachers or if the 63% would prefer that the Government take a much firmer stance with the BCTF.

I for one, would also fall into the 63% who think that the Government has handled this file poorly. However, I fall into this category because I think that the Government needs to get a lot tougher and kick the BCTF into oblivion!

So much for your poll, eh Peeps, BH, BS, People#1 or whoever you are!

By the way BH, I’m wondering if because you use several monikers on this site, did you by chance vote on the poll, several times using all of your different aliases??

Speaking of different aliases, I’ll aske again, why did you change your moniker??

Sweethart deal?

By the way BH, Peeps, whatever, did you take a few minutes to look at the Opinion Piece and Poll that I referred you to in an earlier thread?

I just can’t sit by and watch you toss your crap around like it’s the gospel truth now, can I!! So, here it is again for you and one and all to look at!

OPINION: BCTF AND THE ART OF USING KIDS AS LEVERAGE

This is a very interesting opinion and reasonable opinion piece Peeps, so you might not like it!!

The poll at the bottom of the article asks a simple question, “Are the BCTF’s demands reasonable?”

When I looked at the poll results a few minutes ago, the results were:

54.18% No
36.91% Yes
8.91% Undecided

So, based on this poll, almost 55% believe that the BCTF demands are reasonable!

Here’s the link to this article and poll:

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/06/bctf-and-the-art-of-using-kids-as-leverage/

Like I said Peeps, polls don’t really mean much, after all according to the polls, your wonderful Adrian Dix and your marvelous NDP were going to decimate the Liberals at the last election!! Please tell me again, how did the last election work out for you?
, asyou didn’t respond to my last post ont

oops, disregard teh very last sentence! We so need an “edit” button!!

If you want the BCTF dismantled you will need the teachers to vote and de-certify the union. It doesn’t happen very often, but every once in a while an employer treats the workers good enough, for a long enough time period that the workers no longer believe they need a union.

Somehow I don’t think teachers are dumb enough to trust government to treat them fairly do you?

Who would trust the government? The government that tried to hide the $300 million welfare system crash recently? Leaving vulnerable families to suffer! Well played Christy

The BCTF may not always ask for things we can support but class size and support for special needs students is a major issue, both for the kids and for the teachers, and it is one on which the government has taken an unreasonable stance and refused to negotiate at all until over-ruled by the courts.The province could have avoided this by accepting the court’s ruling, recognizing that it was going to have to back down on this issue, and negotiating in good faith. The teachers aren’t to blame here.

billposer, are we supposed to accept a ruling over a back room deal, brokered between 3 NDP Deputy Ministers and the BCTF, a back room deal that was absolutely, completely, incredibly unaffordable???

56 out of 60 school boards, school boards that were completely left out of the bargaining, absolutely rejected that back room deal!

None of that mattered to the NDP and it sure as heck didn’t matter to the BCTF but it sure as heck mattered to me!!

I would be insulted if my Government had rolled over and accepted the Court’s ruling without making any and all attempts to appeal and overturn the ruling!

The Union has a right to appeal the recent LRB ruling! Why doesn’t the Government have a legal right to appeal the Court’s ruling?

It is the facts you have stated in your comment that cannot be changed billposer, this is why so many of us (over 60%) agree that this government is going about negotiating with the BCTF in an improper (illegal and unethical) manner. Yet there will always be the red around the collar crowd on here that will never accept the facts and the truth of the matter.

Here is a thought; what if teacher working conditions in the classroom are the same as our children’s learning conditions in the classroom? Having reasonable class size and class composition rates are good for both teachers and our school children.

absolutely, completely, incredibly unaffordable???

Apparently not because it was agreed upon.

It’s about time our governments started looking after the children in this province, the kids in school, the kids in care, the kids in need of medical assistance….quit using the lame excuse of affordability. Surely you remember which government lowered corporate income taxes so far that they have to cut services to little suffering children to try and slow down the deficits?????? Raise them back up if you have to.

BeingHuman, why is it that you keep posting that over 60% agree that this government is going about negotiating with the BCTF in an improper (illegal and unethical) manner?

The poll that you refer to DOES NOT say that!

Why are you lying over and over again! Are you of this opinion that if you tell a lie often enough, eventually someone might actually believe you.

You’re hypocritical attempt to sway the opinions of others by falsely stating the facts is pathetic!

I remember a time not so long ago when you were actually able to present an opinion that at times seemed reasonable. Now, you are just a hypocrite!!

Facts and Truths Peeps, Facts and Truths!!

Jim13135, obviously you haven’t been paying attention, so allow me to try to bring you up to speed, ok??

The deal that you speak completely ignored and excluded input both the BCSPEA and Province’s 60 School Boards. The deal was brokered by 3 NDP Deputy Ministers and the NDP.

After having the “deal” presented to them, 56 out of 60 School Boards resoundly rejected the “deal”!

After Glen Clark retired in 1999, the new NDP Premier Ujjal Dosanjh was left to uncover the actual true cost of this sweetheart deal!!

The full cost of all those Clark Government authored deals was pegged at $1.3 billion, the equivalent of an 11% boost in the tab for public sector compensation.

Absolutely, completely and incredibly unaffordable! But hey, ask me, call Ujjal Dosanjh and ask him!!

Figure it out this time, Jim13135??

If there’s a walk out, can we go 50 kph?

Friday the 13th the teachers walk out in pg?
Walk out as what? Zombies? Awesome stuff. Keep it up bctf.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.1243211
I am glad you government lovers are so supportive for them. Remember you are paying for this BS to. But God forbide you don’t like giving two cents to what’s important.

Posted by: buzzinga on June 6 2014 5:19 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.1243211
I am glad you government lovers are so supportive for them. Remember you are paying for this BS to. But God forbide you don’t like giving two cents to what’s important.

———

Let’s not forget that your precious socialists have their snouts in the same trough. Politicians are all the same; they just have different friends with different pockets to line.

I’m still not sure how increasing wages, benefits and leave time is “what’s important”?

Hart Guy:
I know that you do research on your posts.
Where do yo get the information on the following post ?

“The deal that you speak completely ignored and excluded input both the BCSPEA and Province’s 60 School Boards. The deal was brokered by 3 NDP Deputy Ministers and the NDP.

After having the “deal” presented to them, 56 out of 60 School Boards resoundly rejected the “deal”!”

Absolutely, completely and incredibly unaffordable

Private Schools! kids themselves need to qualify, not the parents wallet. This is the trend that is coming around the corner.

Do you want your kids educated to the level of the slowest kid in the class or want them educated to the highest level.

I’m sorry, but I am not a proponent to special needs kids being intergrated into the class room at the cost of all the other kids potential education. I know I will get chastised for the comment, but I have the right to have my narrow minded opinion.

Doesn’t anybody get tired of these entirely predictable cyclical public pain in the neck confrontations of whatever government vs. the BCTF and the BCTF vs. whatever government?

One would think that will all the academic wisdoms (acquired at the universities) the leadership would sit down and look at all the different factors (state of the economy, inflation, cost of living, affordability, budget constraints, budget priorities, deficits, limits on taxpayers’ ability to be taxed, etc.).

Then, sit down behind closed doors with representatives of government and the assistance of a mutually agreed upon mediator – and work out a compromise without reducing the students instruction days by rotating strikes and refusal to do certain tasks.

Come on people, this is about the education of children, not about a coal mine or a pulp mill which can be shut down by strikes and lockouts without causing these interruptions to our educational system and social structure!

Both sides, wake up! Park you egos and resentments and deal with this in a more educated and sophisticated manner!

The students don’t even have to be aware of the fact that an agreement is being worked out elsewhere!

Correction:… think that “will” all…should be:…think that “with” all.

BTW, it isn’t helpful to always bring politics into this issue! Education and the delivery of it should be apolitical, in other words – neutral.

The issues are complicated enough already.

An association of educators might do well to officially assert that it practices neutrality as far as politics go.

Clark charged $475,000 on her credit card and thinks that’s okay, but no money for teachers or education… Wasn’t her platform..Families First.. Guess she meant that’s who she was going to screw over first

verballabel;”Watch your government dismantle the education system and create the 2 tier system that Christy wants. Parents will really be crying when their children are being taught by the lowest bidder!! Support our teachers”!
2 tier awesome!,only 10% of the teachers I see are worth keeping anyway. Maybe the internet will eventually change the way children are being taught.Close the schools, fire the teachers and put the money back in all the tax payers pockets!or use the savings to pay the deficit down.

Good morning karrman,

Some of the information that I posted came from the following two links:

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2010/03/10/clarification-a-quick-review-of-bctf-history/

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=8939e534-0a32-43c3-a59b-b63a8dc27e76&sponsor=

Earlier in this thread, I incorrectly stated that the deal was brokered between 3 NDP Deputy Ministers and the NDP, when I should have stated 3 NDP Deputy Ministers and the BCTF!! (Typing faster than my brain works, obviously)!

It’s interesting that in the second link, Ujjal Dosangh and Carole James are both mentioned, both troubled by the Glen Clark Government’s sweet heart deal with the BCTF. Both James and Dosangh became leader of the NDP party and both were Premiers of the Province!!

“There’s a concern about whether the dollars are really there,” explained the then head of the B.C. School Trustees Association, Carole James. Yes, that Carole James.

Her members then voted to reject the contract by 83 per cent, forcing the NDP to impose a contract on the employers’ side for the first and only time in provincial history.”

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks Hart Guy:
Two interesting articles.
Certainly the history of gov’t an BCTF has been dismal.
The concern that I have is with this gov’t’s approach. Rather than try to negotiate a settlement to bring some stability to the education system, the gov’t seems to be far too antagonistic. Like the judge stated, the go’t is trying to provoke a strike.
This cannot be in any way beneficial to our education system.

You are welcome karmann!

Contrary to popular opinion, I don’t hate teachers! Some of my best friends are teachers!!

I do however, have absolutely no use for their Union, or for that matter most Unions!

In my opinion, most Unions long ago stopped serving the needs of their members and instead have just become a big business, in the BCTF’s case, a big business bringing in something like $70,000,000.00 per year in revenue (dues)!!

PrinceGeorge’s post at 8:25 a.m. makes a lot of sense, far more sense than the current system of bargaining. I certainly think that something needs to change because the current system is not working!

karmann, you have concerns about this government’s approach. While you believe that the government seems to be far too antagonistic, I believe that it’s more likely that both parties are exhibiting some degree of antagonism, but that’s just my red-neck opinion!!

Something has to change, the status quo is no longer acceptable! The government seems to recognize this but the BCTF and the Labour Movement is fighting this tooth and nail, to the bitter end!!

I’m not just talking about the current Government/BCTF dispute, I’m talking, as I always have, about a complete review of our Public Sector, the services that they provide and the compensation in salary, benefits and pensions that they receive!!

There is a huge battle brewing and we are only beginning to see the rumblings start!!

Stay tuned!!

….and have a nice weekend!

and Karrman, just to be clear and before all the Union supporters attack me, when I state that it’s time for a complete review of our Public Sector, I’m talking about from the very TOP to the very BOTTOM, from our Federal Government, to our Provincial Government and also to our Municipal Government, from senior positions right down to the person answering the phone or to the person putting more toilet paper in the restrooms, TOP to BOTTOM!

As a taxpayer, I just want good value for my money, and right now I don’t think that I am getting it!

It’s about time our governments started looking after the children in this province, the kids in school, the kids in care, the kids in need of medical assistance….quit using the lame excuse of affordability. Surely you remember which government lowered corporate income taxes so far that they have to cut services to little suffering children to try and slow down the deficits?????? Raise them back up if you have to.

Hart guy forgot to google how many millions $$ of corporate tax cuts have been made….figures he’d avoid that subject.

Jim13135, I never avoid any opportunity to debate someone. Last night, at 9:25 p.m. you made a comment about one of my posts regarding the 1998 Sweet Heart NDP/BCTF deal. You stated:

“Apparently not because it was agreed upon.”

At 9:56 p.m. last night, I responded but so far you now seem to be avoiding that subject, haha!

As far as corporate tax cuts go, there seem to be a lot of companies operating and employing lots of people, and paying lots of salaries. Ultimately the tax buck stops at the bottome with you and I!

If a corporation has a tax cut and ends up with more profit, the profit is often passed along to the share holder by virtue of dividends. Do you own any corporate stocks, Jimmy, in perhaps your RRSP, your TFSA or perhaps in your pension plan?? If you do and most of us do, then you are reaping the benefit of corporate profits.

Take a look around Prince George at all of the people that receive a pay cheque each and every month because the company that they work for is “profitable”!!

One good things about a profitable company is that fact that it’s pay cheques to it’s employees don’t bounce!!

Government sets tax policy and if the complete review of our Public Sector also reveals necessary changes to our tax policy, then so be it!

By the way Jim13135, I’m self-employed with no pension plan and no benefits. My retirement plan is RRSP’s and TFSA’s. Who employs you and where will your retirement income come from? You would’t by chance be invested in any corporations, either in your pension plan, RRSP or other types of investments, would you?

I am having a good laugh at this conundrum facing teachers.
BCTF has no money for strike pay, the coffers are empty. So what we’re gonna see is some educated, some with masters degrees, teachers on a picket line. I’ll honk just because I think it’s so darn funny!
Yes I belonged to a union for years, and I’ll never forget the NDP forced us on to the picket line.. There are enough labor laws in force now, unions don’t have to do much, but they keep raising dues. In my experience, they were there to assist problem employees who “needed” discipline.
I really hope for the kids sake there is an agreement hammered out and soon, but I really think the BCTF has got to go. Way too blind to reality.