I look forward to signing the referenda campaign against export pipelines in BC for bitumen.

Also this decision was a deal breaker for me. I most definitely will not vote for a conservative. I am hoping I can still vote though. Maybe the ndp for the first time ever, or an independent, or maybe not at all?

“He likened the opposition to the Northern Gateway project to being “Our generation’s Clayoquot Sound”

Would that be the same Clayoquot Sound that the FNs are now logging? Hmmm…

Who cares about world class cleanup abilities…. once the oil is spilled the damage is gone.
All the cleaning in the world will never make it right again.
Exxon Valdez spill in 1989 is a good example, that mess still isn’t cleaned up and we want another probably much bigger mess on our coast?
It isn’t a matter of “IF” is just a matter of “WHEN” it will happen.

Ben. I cannot believe you are quoting this fellow Hudema from Greenpeace. He should have been charged with criminal trespass and destruction of property at the refinery in Burnaby. He works for a $400 million per year organization that had their charitable status in Canada removed for ripping off the Canadian taxpayer.
He is a front for just one more foreign outfit breaking laws in Canada to undermine our economy.
On the other hand, Northern Gateway will boost Canada’s economy, by almost $300 billion over 30 years. It will create thousands of new jobs and training opportunities, particularly for members of the native communities between here and Rupert…

The pipeline will be built, scrutinized by all the naysayers. It will leak, once the naysayers sabatoge the lines.

I’m pretty sure the impact on our economy will be well over the 10 billion dollars a year. We are talking huge production employment on the extracting side. I would not be surprised if a new refinery gets built and a bit of processing happens in ten years time.

This is not just about BC and Alberta. This decision was made for the whole country. The americans don’t like it, because we now can ship our oil to someone else other than the americans.

All these naysayers, think that this is the first pipeline ever built. They have been burying pipe in the ground for the last 70 years. Some of them has never leaked once.

I’m pretty sure, the best technology will be used and awful lot of failsafe devices used to transport the product, both ways.

This is an exciting period for the working man in the northern half of the province. Lets do it right and live well.

Bcracer the tankers never stopped. Rules and regulations where adapted and no incident since. Same rules and regulations applied here.

The hilarious thing here is the Feds give the First Nations the money to oppose these projects, and as contractor says, some groups opposed are given charitable status as well. Taxpayers fund both sides!

He spoke,we have to view the industries that are already in place and the effect. We have an obligation to question both Governments and Enbridge on this pipeline. If you ask the questions you get closer to the truth. For a start Enbridge has NO responsibility after the Bitumen oil leaves port, its up to the tanker owners and the feds. So when they talk about world class response there just words. Enbridge will carry the bitumen to the port that’s it. On land they have more responsibility for a spill and response. Also Enbridge and its investors put up $700 million to move this project forward if it proceeds what’s their benefit? 1 million barrels of bitumen oil a day times 365 days year times 30 years at $100 dollars a barrel.

I’ve nothing against building pipelines, this one or any others. And there’s no doubt there’ll be ‘jobs’, and spin off benefits, etc., etc.

But can we ” …do it right and live well”?

So far as actually ‘doing it right’ and making it ‘leak proof’ is possible, I’d say our chances are pretty good.

It’s the “living well” part that troubles me. Its construction is going to push up prices, and while incomes may well rise, too, past experience with these kind of projects should have taught us that the ‘gap’ between the two gets ever wider for more of us than the few for whom it will narrow.

This has some very serious effects, not for just those on relatively fixed incomes, but for all of us.

Unlike the great dam construction projects of the 1960’s, where at least there was a promise of low cost electricity for all of us here when they were done ~ and that promise was kept so long as WAC Bennett’s Socreds were in office, giving our homeowners the opportunity to “live better electrically”, and our manufacturing industries, mines, mills, etc. a great ‘natural advantage’ in keeping their costs competitive internationally even if wages did rise, there’s not going to be any of that this time.

The rise in prices here will lead to a rise in costs here, and many of our existing industries are going to feel the pinch badly. As will we all when taxes of all description are pushed ever higher to meet further ‘catch up’ demands from teachers, health care workers, and all others who are employed by government.

This is the part of “doing it right” few seem to be considering. But it’s the part that’ll have far more negative impact on all of us than any oil spill, and cause us a huge amount of more grief in ‘cleaning it up’ than any actual spills ever will.

For what good does it do anyone to make twice what their making now, if the cost of everything they, and we, goes up MORE than twice? Are we really still so stupid that we think we have to ‘work’ our way into poverty? By all means, if the pipeline is truly advantageous in as many ways as its proponents proffer, build it. But surely to God, after all past experiences, figure out a way to negate the rise in prices to BC consumers, of everything we still need or want, that will accompany it.

I just can’t buy the “living well” line when it comes to massive environmental risks and intrusions such as tar sands development entails. The whole messy thing is predicated on the notion that the only energy in the world comes from OIL. The energy we are deriving from turning half of northern Alberta upside down and cooking the slime out of it is not living well. There is energy everywhere and in everything, and we are learning very quickly how to exploit it, without this sort of nonsense. Cars powered by aluminum? maybe so, Australian company planning homes with integrated solar electric and heat providing roofs, yep on the way. This sort of thing is a dinosaur before it was conceived.

So how do you produce the aluminium? Do you have any idea on the environmental costs on producing solar related equipment? There is no free ride. The closest to a free ride environmentally is new generation nuclear.

Half of Alberta! I can see your information only comes from some biased news anchor talking head. Go to Google earth and without any help find the oil sands.

“All these naysayers, think that this is the first pipeline ever built. They have been burying pipe in the ground for the last 70 years. Some of them has never leaked once.”

Tarsands bitumen is not crude! Still cleaning up Kalamazoo with a cost now of over 1 billion. They ignored the fact that the pipe needed maintenance for 5 years! The operator didn’t believe his instruments and kept the oil flowing! All the safety technology in the world can’t protect us from incompetance.

Steph,

So when Ford makes a car, and the driver of the car hits the curb doing 80 mph. does a roll over and hits a bunch of people waiting for the bus. No mechanical failure, is it the drivers fault or the company that made the car.

If a sawmill makes a stud, and ships it over sea, and this stud is built in a building and it is hit by a typhoon and the 2×4 spears a person, is it the sawmills responsibility.

We all have this wonderful luxury of stating opinions and protest. But essentially both sides are hypocrites. The guys who support the pipeline, still want a peace of the wilderness. The naysayers, protest, while driving their vehicles running on petroleum, throwing out their trash in plastic bags, etc.

I look forward to signing the referenda campaign against export pipelines in BC for bitumen.

Also this decision was a deal breaker for me. I most definitely will not vote for a conservative. I am hoping I can still vote though. Maybe the ndp for the first time ever, or an independent, or maybe not at all?

There hasn,t been a generation that “talked” more about the enviroment then this one, and there hasn,t been one that creates as much garbage per person as this generation, and non have gotten as caried away with ” what if,s ” as this generation. Living is risky.

Anytime proponents need to use hyperbole hypothetical scenarios to try and justify their reasoning we should know they are unable to justify it on its own merits.

He Spoke- you nailed it!

We need cheap power so we can keep developing cleaner, newer generation power. It is not a chicken or egg question. The Thames river used to be one of the foulest water ways on the planet, now it is very clean.
Without oil to get us through the next 50 years we won’t get to next generation technology, we will slide back into old technology that is even worse for the planet.
As the world urbanizes the population density of the cities increase, reducing the strain on the wilderness. Without oil those people living on small farms making 2 dollars a day will stay their having more and more children until they have cleared all the land, and when they are done they will go to war with their neighbours.
We are on a precipice when it comes to the world, and what we need is rapid urbanization, improving incomes, higher education, dropping birth rates, and more people trying to make solar, wind and other clean forms of energy economically efficient, while meanwhile billions of poor people are hacking the forest down, killing all the animals, pumping soot into the atmosphere and generally despoiling mother earth.
The lowest Carbon society in the US is New York City.
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/greenest_place_in_the_us_its_not_where_you_think/2203/

bc bob….speak for your own garbage please. Seamut….the Athabasca oil sands lies under 54,000 square miles of Alberta, plus other deposits Cold Lake and Peace River. Not all of this is recoverable at the prices of a few years ago, but???? If it is economical to do so industry will wring out every freaken drop…believe me, 7000 year old peat bogs, boreal forest be damned. And the tax payer is subsidizing them, 800 dollars or more per each Canadian goes each year to oil and gas in the way of subsidies. Not right by any means. The oil companies tell us in their propaganda that we NEED oil to survive. Here’s what you get for your love of oil. Look at your car dealers lot….a pile of bright shiny Flintstone mobiles, all designed to use your wonderful oil to get you from point a to b. Using technology 100 years or more old…a compressor designed to harness UP and DOWN motions of thousands of explosions per minute to rotary motion, converting through a huge mess of gears, bearings, whatnot to eventually reach the ground, or some of it anyway. Enough heat left over to need a radiator, what doesn’t go out the tail pipe, and a gallon or so of oil to lubricate the whole mess, that ends up a toxic mess of metals, half burnt hydrocarbons and so on, what doesn’t drip out on the curb. And so on, I could go on, but you get the idea, what an extremely efficient device. Strap in a big woofer or two and a GPS and so forth, wow, state of the art, big price tag, everybody is happy.

Something has to change, starting now.

Cheep power? News flash this project is about energy inflation for Canadians and Cheeper power for communist slave traders that will use it to further undermine our markets in manufactured goods.

It will never be built!

Excusemebut2,

For starters there are only 664 square kilometers under development in the oil sands right now, and as they finish up with an area it is restored. Remember that most of Canada was under a kilometer or more of ice for 100,000 years and the land returned to normal pretty fast. What is the biodiversity of land that is being compressed by 1600 meters of ice?

Also for all of your true facts about the inefficiencies of cars, do you drive an electric vehicle? If you do the lithium, steel, cobalt, and aluminium and everything else in that electric car needs oil. The windtowers in the peace didn’t get there by electric trucks, and the silicon solar panels that the Chinese are building so cheap don’t sail back to North America on solar either.

Also if you did plug your electric car in to charge it from that clean Williston power it would be only allowing coal burning plants to take up the slack.

The world better get a handle on the fact that it is already overpopulated!

Calculations predict the population to total 10 billion by 2025 which means adding another 3 billion! Maybe they will be able to feed them with all the GMO manipulations but what about clean air, clean water and depletion of non-renewable resources?

China just changed its one child per family policy to two children per family! No wonder they need our resources not only now but even more so in the future!

Also on the incoming “hyper inflation” coming from all this pipeline stuff is always a problem for gov’t workers.

But how do we keep a system where there is no work for anyone except gov’t workers going?

IE in the 90s in PG it was a great time to be a teacher. Wages haven’t changed much since then, but houses have tripled along with taxes, power, gas, and everything else.
This NIMBY attitude is great except that those 8 years of NDP glory time for those that didn’t have jobs. It was also completely unsustainable as most of our provincial debt was accrued at this point.
I would like to take my great grand kids fishing on the Skeena River too….
But that means driving, jet boats, fishing line, tires, all things that responsible development offers us.

Its interesting to hear the politicians talk about this issue as if they were really opposed. They, in most part, are only siding with those opposed because they have their sites set on Ottawa not the welfare of their constituents. This is prime election fodder for Trudeau and Mulcair.

Forecast to be $69billion by 2016

Cupricity your arguments are so full of holes, could make that fish net out of it.

“starters there are only 664 square kilometers under development in the oil sands right now, and as they finish up with an area it is restored.” I call BS on that, how do you restore, overnight, 7000 or more year old peat bog???? Nah, not happening.

You need a jet boat just to go fishing…poor little ol you. I have caught lots of fish in my life, out of my paddled canoe. And had a hoot doing it.

And so you ramble on… inflation by the way, as we have evidenced in Fort St. John due to the already hyper active oilfield affects EVERYONE, especially those not working in the oilpatch and there are a good number of them. Retirees, disabled folks, retail and service workers and so forth, who are finding life here too expensive.

gov sux…..not to let a fact get in the way of a good, well researched argument. lol

With reference to the windtowers, and the inefficiencies of cars Cupricity, we have been exploiting petroleum for a hundred years, burned away how much of the estimated reserves???? and still haven’t found a way to use it efficiently??? About time we did something about that. Electric cars, solar, and wind as we know it now is just the tip of the berg, time to get serious and get started. Geothermal….BC could have vast potential…know what??? BC Hydro is going to build C dam, they haven’t even studied the complete potential of going that route. Smart eh.

Excuseme stand in the middle of your house, now slowly turn around, no cheating keep your eyes open. Can you point to one thing that does not envolve petroleum?

How did the natives waterproof their canoes in the oil sands area?

Wind, solar will never be viable sources of energy. How come these sources of power cannot survive without huge subsidies?

You really have to do some research.

socredible, I like your ideas but I think no one is listening. It is part of our society to just “muddle threw”. that’s just how we do things today and I don’t believe that will ever change.
Cheers

Govsux what is contractual obligations exactly?

Also I will stand by my “most of our debt accrued in the 90s. During one of the greatest periods of economic growth (thank Bill Clinton for that), We took our debt from
16 Billion to 35 Billion a 110% increase. The liberals, who have had to live through “the worst recession since the 1930s” Have increased the Debt by the same amount but on percentage basis, and over a 50% longer term the debt has increased only 50%. So the BC liberals have increased the debt at 33% of the rate the NDP has.

Please clarify contractual obligations. It sounds a bit like the tea party attacking Obama but I would like some facts on it. Thanks!

“Excuseme stand in the middle of your house, now slowly turn around, no cheating keep your eyes open. Can you point to one thing that does not envolve petroleum?”

So seamut, so what! Besides this tarsands bitumen is owned by China! There are ways to make products without tarsands bitumen. Ever heard of hemp, hemp oil, canola oil and bamboo products? Bamboo grows like a weed. Synthetic oil made from natural gas?

The sky won’t fall when this tar oil doesn’t flow!

I too won’t vote conservative and will gladly support any group financially to stop this from happening.

http://www.straight.com/news/gabriel-yiu-bc-liberals-contractual-obligations-hide-magnitude-provincial-debt

Excusemebut2

I am not calling you names, only stating facts. As for how much oil we have burned, it is less than 30% and we keep finding more.

As for clean tech, you are right, we are at the tip of the iceberg on it, but it is going to take a whole lot of money and time to get that iceberg figured out.

Ironically the Chinese have reduced the cost of solar panels from $1000/ watt to $0.66/watt through the rapid expansion of industrialization in that country, to the benefit of the whole world.

As for 7000 year old swamps- who cares! What do you think coal seams are? What happens to the peat they move to get at the tar sands? They put it back when they are done. Sure makes for great soil conditioner.

Interestingly enough the aspen trees that bless your neck of the woods are growing 50% faster than they were in 1980.
http://www.botany.wisc.edu/waller/PDFs/Cole.et.al2010_GCB.pdf

And as for Canoes, please explain to me how you could put your family, on the Skeena river, in a Canoe?

Thanks!

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/ocg/pa/11_12/Contractual_Obligations.pdf

Seamut…cop out ignorant arguments, if that is the best you can come up with you need to do some reading. Please read how, in the middle of the oilpatch, Dawson Creek has reached an interesting idea and concept of sustainability.

http://www.mc-3.ca/dawson-creek

The amount of subsidy that carbon based international companies walk away with out of this taxpayer’s pocket dwarfs any help renewables get. WInd, solar, geothermal ARE viable and thriving, please google geothermal in the US, plants all over, please also read the latest out of places like Utah, where utilities are getting so flustered by the number of solar installations that they are trying to impose extra fees on those that use them and calling them free loaders.

Do you have an article on contractual obligations from something that isn’t quite so obviously biased?
An ex-NDP candidate writing for the Georgia Straight is about the same as Rush Limbaugh, or the Fraser Institute. I would like to stake out the middle ground here.
Also about canoes, I love them, they are great, just not on rivers when you are with a family, which is what Salmon fishing is all about!

I just read the gov’t contractual obligations and yes they astronomical.

But it is very disingenuous to say that it is the same as debt. We pay IPPs 3.6 billion a year by the looks of things. What is that power worth? My guess- more than that. Unless we sell it at North Americas second cheapest rate to BC residential customers.
It is like saying that if you owe 2500/ month for your car and house payment (30,000) a year and they are on 25 year terms that your total debt is 750,000.
Adding the 750,000 to the mortgage and truck principal of 400,000 is 1.15 million in debt, but that is not the case is it?
As a matter of fact I would suggest that it is deliberately misleading to suggest that this is “debt”.

Common Sense Canadian is Rafe Mair.

Although he has traditionally been considered a political conservative, Mair’s views have always been moderate on certain issues, notably the environment and social welfare. Disillusioned with the three mainstream federal parties, he has lately become a significant supporter of the Green Party urging people to vote for them in recent federal and provincial elections. Though he shies away from endorsing entire parties, he still supports individual candidates, most recently including New Democrat candidate Svend Robinson in Vancouver Centre.[1]

For the British Columbia general election of 2009, Rafe Mair publicly stated that he voted NDP. Though he has written about a great many reasons why he thinks BC Premier Gordon Campbell has failed British Columbians, his biggest concern is that the BC Liberals are destroying the publicly owned utility, BC Hydro, and is giving British Columbia’s water rights to international corporate interests.

Rafe Mair was the spokesperson for a group organized to fight private run of the river hydroelectric developments named Save Our Rivers.[2]

Mair has authored several books on Canadian politics, including his memoirs and a regular columnist at the online newsmagazine The Tyee.[3]

Mair is currently a principal contributor to The Common Sense Canadian, a news and opinion site with a British Columbia focus.[4] He currently hosts a program called The Search with Rafe Mair on Joy TV.[5][6]

Excuseme , onatario power rates quickly increasing from their very expensive inefficient wind. Economies almost destroyed in Spain and Portugal because of wind and solar. Germany, England, Denmark also very expensive power. Another thing in common is industry leaving for cheaper energy.

Oh what happens when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow. Oh right backup power, so the costs of two sources of power, not just one.

So how do you move that hemp around? How do you plow?

Excuseme says, ” Seamut…cop out ignorant arguments”, since I am catching flax I must be over the target.

Lawyers gotta love all this. Hay Martha I am going to order a bigger boat built out of petroleum products while I am on the gravy train getting paid to fight the pipeline. Some of my money comes from the Saudis.

If we simply instituted drug testing as a requirement to cash a government cheque our deficit would be a surplus and the population of Alberta would go up 250,000 people in a couple months.

For all those people who are not going to vote Conservative. Hmmmm. Did you ever vote Conservative?. Hmmmm.

NoWay and Excusemebut,

Yes the American are freaked about solar panels and net metering. They should be.

What is ironic is that Germany who was the world leader in solar in 2011 is now building coal plants faster than you can shake a stick at.

Excusemebut2, you are worried about inflation and increasing costs from development. Can you imagine how much things would cost without oil?

I can give you some examples.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-america-spends-money-100-years-in-the-life-of-the-family-budget/255475/

In 1900, before we used oil Food was 43% of the household budget. In 2003 it was 12%.

You think a pipeline will bring some inflation, look out when we don’t have any oil.

Meanwhile the utilities in the states are up in arms against solar, because China took on a bold industrialization process that allowed them to produce solar panels very inexpensively.

What I believe is that we should keep the economy going so we can continue to develop technologies that will make our oil redundant.
But if we wouldn’t have started with Coal, we would never have gotten to oil, and without oil we wouldn’t have solar starting to open up.
You see where I am going with this.

How does oil become redundant?. Oil goes well past transportation. Solar is a dead horse.

cupricity, at least someone in this crowd is seeing the big picture.

Without oil, our world population will be reduced to 50% with in one year, with in two years 33%. No economy, we would all be tilling land to grow our own food.

That is what happens when we stop producing oil. If we don’t ship the oil, you can count on one thing, China or the US will invade us.

Seamut,

You should revise your opinion of Solar. Try to think of the sun as a factory, then figure out how much it would cost to heat a sphere with the radius of 150 million km with natural gas.
You should also look at the cost of solar panels which are reducing in cost at an exponential rate and within 25 years will likely be a good portion of our power on this planet. Even Warren Buffet will take that bet.
I just think we need oil to get us there, to a place where clean tech rules. To dirty tech takes money away from research which puts us back in time.
Anyone who thinks a changeless place is great should study Japan from 1600-1870s and see what happens when a country fails to develop. The Americans showed up with a battleship and opened the country up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-10/buffett-ready-to-double-15-billion-solar-wind-bet.html

You know there is more to solar than the just the cells, wiring, controllers, infrastructure, backup. What do you do when covered with snow? When dark? Have a house fire the cells can’t be turned off.

So you figure solar replaces petroleum products?

Do you have any idea of the environmental concerns producing the cells?

Do you have solar?

Build new generation nuclear then onto fusion.

Where are you going to put millions of square miles of solar cells, or not concerned with that?

Seamut,

I do have solar, stored in lead acid batteries, delivered via a pick up truck burning oil made in Alberta. They store about 18 kilowatt hours and there is 3.5kilowatts of panels. It is more than enough to keep the house going with the fridge shop vac or air compressor this time of year.
In the winter they suck and require a back up generator to recharge the batteries. Despite the fact there is 3.5kw of panels on a cloudy day with some snow they take in around 100watts (3% efficiency).
If I lived in Arizona it might be different though, the solar availability there is excellent, especially for the end user who would have have batteries.
Interestingly there is a new type of battery no reliant on metals( mine are lead acid) that would be cheap.
But let me reaffirm this point. Solar is infantile, and no where ready to replace gas, coal and oil. Given time I am sure it will perform a reasonable percentage of power but it is not firm power.
Warren Buffett is investing huge dollars on transmission systems in the US to tie in the solar farms that have huge peaks in valleys in their out put levels.
As for millions of square miles of solar I think most of that will be roof tops, parking lots, and road ways to start, and the Sahara desert comes to mind as well.
So we need oil, gas and coal in the near and medium term desperately, but in the future who knows.
My point is that profit creates creativity and creativity creates profit.
As for the enironmental concerns of solar I haven’t read much on it but will!
Cheers.

Some pro-Enbridge dipshit was on BC almanac today stating they had 60% of the aboriginal community signed up and endorsing the pipeline, what he failed to explain was that the majority of them were in alberta and the ones who signed up in BC were ones that were included only when they expanded the corridor including natives that don’t live anywhere near or live off resources anywhere near the pipeline. This is the kind of propaganda that Enbridge continues to spew that makes 2/3 of BC not want them here, ever.

That’s 11 comments from cupricity on this comment thread alone. Not that I am complaining, but either cupricity is gus, or we have someone commenting on here who probably gets paid to engage in public relations for an industry.

I wonder if establishing a policy on company and government paid trolls promoting their propaganda on this site would be in order. Too much of that on here could turn people off like the hundreds of Enbridge Pipeline ads we are being bombarded with daily in every form of media; TV, radio, Internet, newspapers. I was hoping we could at least be sheltered from all that chite on this site, but I suppose not. The Oil Industry has deep pockets and they are EVERYWHERE these days!

Wow “huh”, profanity, name calling, and personal attacks in two threads. Nice work. Someone must’ve really peed in your corn flakes this morning — Either that, or you’re trying to get the ban hammer dropped on you.

Over 800 billion dollars have been spent, over 4000 American servicemen died, over 10,000 locals, in Iraq since Bush’s big lie, his search for WMDs. Which really was a fight over oil we now find. That is really just the tip of the iceberg as to what continued dependence on this product is costing humankind, not even mentioning the environmental destruction that was caused. 800 billion would have done a lot of research and development. No, we can not drop oil like a hot potato, I never said we should, we can use common sense. Building this pipeline does not make common sense. My final on the matter.

I like coming in the house and just flicking a switch and not dealing with batteries, controllers, wiring etc. To deal with a whole house system, huge cost.

I have 40 years generation experience from seagoing ships, diesel plants to hydro electric. Germany encouraged roof top solar at a huge cost, shut down their nuclear and are now building coal fired generating plants like crazy. In the meantime their energy costs have skyrocked and industry is leaving because of the costs. Solar is not new and is costly per unit of energy..

Something interesting, firemen are having issues with rooftop solar making it difficult to move on a roof and danger from electrocution as solar cannot be turned off at the panels.

Lots of emotional arguments against pipelines, but little in the way of facts. No wonder it got approved.

So now I am a paid oil man? Can you tell me how I get my cheque, cause last month was real skinny and I could use the money to give my wife a break who is all stressed out looking after kids who should be at school.

I would like to say I have done no name calling, and have stuck to the facts.

Without oil there would be no internet, and arguments would be settled with musket balls and bayonets.

As for Iraq- why do you think we need this safe, enviro friendly oil on the market? What with gold plated 747s, Irans nuclear agenda, Russia’s aggression the world needs safe oil from Canada like never before.

Good night, going to get my salmon fishing gear ready, headed out to the Skeena next weekend, the Salmon are running. Can’t wait.

Seamutt,

New solar systems are pretty much maintenance free, just equalize the batteries every 6 months.

As for oil being made redundant, we only have a couple of hundred years worth of it and we have to be careful not to take the CO2 level in the atmosphere above 1 percent (250% of todays rate) so eventually it will be replaced. Just not there yet.

As for the anti oil crowd, you are are proposing banning fires in the stone age and suggesting we switch to electricity when the only electricity around is lightning.

Well someone has to try and keep up to cupricity’s prolific commenting pace, I am only at one comment, while he is now at 13 comments, but who’s counting ;-)

@ seamut;
“Photovoltaic systems are different, but not more dangerous, than traditional electrical installations. This is the conclusion drawn at a fire protection workshop held by the Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems ISE and TÜV Rheinland at the Solar Info Center in Freiburg. The workshop was attended by 120 participants, including manufacturers, researchers, representatives from the fire brigade and insurance companies. They agreed that the best fire protection is the adherence to the existing regulations through qualified skilled workers.”

“As with every electrical installation, one can also extinguish a fire using water from a distance of one to five meters, depending on the type of electric arc. Based on the investigations to date, all of the claims stating that the fire brigade could not extinguish a house fire because of the photovoltaic system have been shown to be false.”

http://www.solar-international.net/article/76852-Fire-Protection-in-Photovoltaic-Systems.php

JohnnyBelt states; “Lots of emotional arguments against pipelines, but little in the way of facts. No wonder it got approved.” Oh the irony in your comment JB:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10390268_526571207476379_5585166499777710804_n.jpg

I think I know why Huh is so upset with you JB, no offence, but many of your comments reveal a level of ignorance, lack of understanding, and lack of knowledge you possess about the subject at hand. There is the reality of the situation, and then there is your view of it, which is the complete opposite.

For example, let’s make your comment the complete opposite of what you meant; “Lots of factual arguments against pipelines, but little in the way of emotional ones for it. No wonder it did not get approved.” Now that is a comment most of us would agree with. Oh well, you can continue to view our arguments as being “emotional” with little in the way of “facts”, but more and more of us are beginning to view you exactly as Huh described you. Nothing personal JB but I am so glad I am not you!

When you’ve got nothing to say, just attack the person who said it. I know your way, Peeps. Yup yup.

@Peeps: I also see you’ve re-started posting those cartoon/spam links that I don’t click on.

“New solar systems are pretty much maintenance free, just equalize the batteries every 6 months”. If you believe that good luck.

Oh oh you mentioned c02. How did the world survive when c02 levels where over ten times higher.

Peeps sorry there is an issue with not being able to access the roof properly and not being able to turn the power off.

At the moment, firefighters navigating solar-equipped buildings can two do things to protect themselves. While on the roof, they can cover solar arrays with heavy tarps, depriving them of light. Inside the building, they can disconnect inverters. Even then, they have to be careful where they sink their axes, Paiss advises. “It is important for the crews inside to be careful when opening holes in the ceiling, as they may contact the conduit from the array with their tools.” Regulations are also part of the equation. California requires clear labeling of solar energy at a building’s main service disconnect (this is basically like a breaker switch, except it shuts off everything), and pending legislation in New Jersey would require buildings that use solar to post signs saying as much for the benefit of firefighters.