Read: Have the BCTF had enough yet?

It is always humorous to see how ‘tunnel-vision’ some posters are when reacting to a story theme. I understand that many of us have already picked ‘our’ side and will cherish every glimmer of a ‘possible victory’.

However, the news of the week has included a resounding vote from the BCTF members supporting their leadership’s position, a public commitment of funds from across the labour sector to the BCTF in support of the hardship fund. Then the Minister of Education announced his backing off of his commitment for ‘no legislation’ along with the more recent comment from the Premier that ‘this dispute will be over by early October.’ …

So, perhaps a more accurate spin might be … “Want one last kick at the can before the legislation comes down?”

This is all about saving face and building their stories for both sides as the next round will be in the court room and the round after that will be in the streets at election time.

The BCTF’s refusal to agree to a mediated settlement leaves the government with no other choice. The BCTF might be fine with sitting out the year, but the government has to step in eventually and stop the insanity.

I am completely unsure why the BCTF would want a legislated contract over a negotiated one. Does Iker think they will sell the farm on legislation? Probably more like up to two more years at current rates. They legislated them back to work in 2002 and look where they are at.

Why not just pull U72, U73 and E80 and go for a five year deal on wages alone if he thinks a deal is close on wages – although he probably knows he has been lying to the public and that even on the wage issue they are miles apart

My only stake in all this is the fact that utility fees have almost tripled, homeowner taxes are way up, my home insurance is up 20% in one year without ever having a claim, the rain water tax is coming! The last thing I need is a huge increase in school taxes and that being a result of the government giving up its control of taxes by relinquishing its authority to govern to binding arbitration. An editorial today says that the government took a 400 million dollar bath recently when it agreed to binding arbitration in another dispute.

Enough is enough!

Posted on Friday, September 12, 2014 @ 11:49 AM by JohnnyBelt
The BCTF’s refusal to agree to a mediated settlement leaves the government with no other choice. The BCTF might be fine with sitting out the year, but the government has to step in eventually and stop the insanity.
——————-

Please post your source that states the BCTF refuses to agree to a mediated settlement. In fact it was the BCTF that requested mediation all along.

You don’t like all those mandatory tax increases PrinceGeorge? You have a problem with democratic communism?

Arbitration and Mediation are not interchangable terms, Dragon.

I think the two adversaries should agree to negotiate with the assistance of a mediator! That is the role of Vince Ready. Mediation doesn’t require either one to agree to something that is ordered, whereas binding arbitration does. Let’s be real!

Democratic communism is an oxymoron as in communism there is NO democracy, the polit bureau cadre uppers make all the decisions and the sheep have to obey, or else! As soon as they are in the declare a unity party and it will be the only one to vote for, no others allowed! I visited the German Democratic Republic workers’ paradise and it was an awful experience. Fortunately we have some safeguards here like multi-party elections, the last one in B.C. being a good example!

Something needs ti end this madness. While I support the teachers with regards to class size and compensation as my daughter was a victim of an over-sized class with 3 IEP students this past year-there needs to be compromises on both sides. My child isn’t getting an education this way and that is her right.

Prince George has it right. We are all being taxed so that we can pay higher wages and benefits to those who are already pretty well compensated.

We have now reached the point where Government workers, Municipal workers and staff, Teachers, Police, Firemen, Managers, etc; should not get anymore of an increase than the average increase for those earning between $25000.00 to $50,000.00 per year. Union and non – union, and pensioner

The gap between those who get paid by Government taxes, and those who pay those taxes is much to big, and needs to be reined in.

Who initiated mediation belt?

Who just voted 99% in favour of arbitration, Dragon?

Yes, but how do you get binding arbitration? By bringing in a mediator. So as the government spin doctors again

Exactly, PG and Palopu. We are on an unsustainable path with respect to our public service.

Iker and co. don’t care about what their demands cost the taxpayer or where the money is going to come from. That is not their concern.

In terms of degree of control over the events, (after legislation,) mediation gives the government more control than binding arbitration and the courts. One of the main obstacles in front of mediation is E80 on the table by the government.

BC Liberals are aware that if this is not resolved by mid November, we will be talking about recall elections in more than 13 BC Liberal seats in BC.
If the government introduces back to school legislation now, people will also ask why it waited so long and it didn’t do it 1 Sept. Legislation will only delay a resolution to a later date when BC election recall will be on the table by the BCTF, hence strengthening BCTF’s hand, in addition to a highly possible win by BCTF in canada supreme court.

prof: “BC Liberals are aware that if this is not resolved by mid November, we will be talking about recall elections in more than 13 BC Liberal seats in BC. ”

In your wildest fantasies, perhaps.

Can we recall Iker?

The teachers have to realize that working 5 hours per day and 8.5 months per year and on average pulling down $86000 with benefits factored in is a pretty good living.
Dream on if you think you deserve more.
Here’s the proof for all you hack teacher supporters who claim that everyone in disagreement with you simply does not know the FACTS!

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/battle-of-numbers-how-much-does-an-average-teacher-make/article17309702/?service=mobile

Both sides are out to lunch in this dispute and the only real result will be damage to the children not getting education. Iker should be voted out and the Ministry of Education needs a re-organization as well. Maybe new people could get the job done. Self-centered adults!!!!!!!

Do you think the government has any concern on the burden they have continued to put on the tax payers.. Of course not, we are a endless ATM to them, raise this, charge that etc.

All this does is give them someone to blame for another increase.

How much has Christy and company increased BC taxpayers debt since taking control of taxpayers money? From 36 to 80 billion dollars or there abouts isn’t it?

“Yes, but how do you get binding arbitration? By bringing in a mediator.”

No! Absolutely not.

BTW, the NDP government of the day brought in recall. However, it was mostly feel good legislation, with the hurdles to be overcome set intentionally so high that it is virtually impossible to recall any MLA. It requires to get a vote from people who may have moved out of the particular riding and even those who have died since the last election.

Recall may cause a politician who has committed a crime or something really serious to voluntarily pack it in. No, you can’t recall a union leader, but they members can express their dissatisfaction and have a membership meeting, an election and replace him or her.

“Posted on Friday, September 12, 2014 @ 12:53 PM by Dragonmaster
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2014 @ 11:49 AM by JohnnyBelt
The BCTF’s refusal to agree to a mediated settlement leaves the government with no other choice. The BCTF might be fine with sitting out the year, but the government has to step in eventually and stop the insanity.
——————-

Please post your source that states the BCTF refuses to agree to a mediated settlement. In fact it was the BCTF that requested mediation all along.”
———————–

You’re the one that claimed the BCTF refused a mediated settlement belt, now your changing the subject to arbitration. Post your source regarding the BCTF’s refusal of mediation belt.

P Val: “Do you think the government has any concern on the burden they have continued to put on the tax payers.. Of course not, we are a endless ATM to them, raise this, charge that etc.”

You’re starting to see the light, P Val. A big part of government expense is wages and benefits for the explosion of public service workers. The private sector has not seen anywhere near the expansion that the public sector has seen for 30+ years. The public sector enjoys wages and benefits that often outstrip their private sector counterparts. This is not sustainable.

Without the private sector pumping tax dollars into the system to keep up with public sector expansion, we are headed down the same path Greece went.

The mediator’s role is to talk to both sides in private and independently and measure their willingness to be flexible and the degree of flexibility in order to make a judgment as to whether it is worthwhile to have them come to the table to negotiate. In public they have (unfortunately perhaps) indicated that they will not move from a particular position come hell or high water! What is the use to bring them to the table then? Only to have them glare at each other? The mediator’s job is a very delicate one and he is a person of trust, who will not reveal what each side has said in its arguments. He will ask each party if there is any part of its arguments or tentative proposals that it wishes to put on the table. Period.

The political grandstanding is for public consumption. The actual negotiations are about the matter at hand. Both sides ought to remember that in this case they own interests don’t trump those of the children and education as such. They each have to give up and give in so that a common ground settlement can be agreed upon, which although not perfect for either side will put the prime interest ahead of everything else.

JB=SB

Sorry for some typos. This site should have a *review comment* and *edit/post comment* option.

acrider: “JB=SB”

Wrong. But who is SB? I’m curious.

Johnny Belt is in full flight today. At present there has been 28 comments and he has made 7 of them. 25% of the comments were made by one person and people thought that Gus was bad.

Here’s another one for your scorebook, Oldun.

“Exactly, PG and Palopu. We are on an unsustainable path with respect to our public service.”

Prove it JB!

“Without the private sector pumping tax dollars into the system to keep up with public sector expansion, we are headed down the same path Greece went.”

What happened to Greece is very unlikely to happen here! We can just cry like Quebec for more transfer payments. Besides we are not a have not country in amongst other countries. So scream the sky is falling all you like JB. But it’s not.

BC has room to raise taxes and in this case they should for education nothing else. But isn’t that roof leaking again?

@Prof you forget U72 and U73 but the BCPSEA has not gone to the media and kept quiet like they both agreed to. Iker (BCTF) has been selectively vocal to the media that is why you hear about E80 but not the other tabled issues. U72, U73, and E80 are about the same issue, just the U = union and E = employer tabled versions

Unless you have access to the teachers portal at the BCTF site you will not be able to view the current asks/concessions but you can view them here:

http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/bc-teachers/teacher-collective-bargaining.aspx

You may note that the BCTF uses ‘X’ dollars in some cases which kind of has a familiar ring to it in PG

They really should change the laws so union membership is optional. The mouthbreathers can still pay dues to their elite Kings while the whole issue slowly dies a necessary death. Then the young go-getters can rise to the top and the slovenly oldtimers can be put out to pasture.
Sigh – dare to dream. Imagine the productivity.
Ah well, what do I care. I advanced my way out of the union years ago.

NoWay: “Prove it JB! ”

Check the news, Greece already proved it. So did many other European countries. To summarize, a bloated and entitled public service with gold plated wages and benefits + not enough tax dollars going in = disaster.

NoWay: “What happened to Greece is very unlikely to happen here!”

Prove it.

NoWay: “We can just cry like Quebec for more transfer payments.”

You are a true NDP supporter aren’t you?… wanting us to go back to have-not status.

NoWay: “isn’t that roof leaking again?”

I love this one. This is a favorite battle cry of the lefties for some reasons. Here’s the deal… like it or not, that roof was getting replaced, even if your beloved NDP was in power. Blame the Socreds back in the 80’s for building BC Place if you want to blame somebody.

For oldun and the other scorekeepers, this has been my 9th post.

The roof needed replacing JB and it got replaced. The teachers dispute has gone on too long and needs to be fixed so find the money for it just like they found the money for the roof. We aren’t a country JB and BC has too much to ever be a have not .

When there is a pie of a certain size I think it is not fair to insist on a bigger slice when all the other slices will have to be made smaller. It is also not fair to those who never have access to any real piece of the pie which can be called a slice! Those live of the crumbs that fall off the table. I am thinking part time minimum wage and often no work at all, having no money left over to pay into a pension plan or RRSP, taking the bus instead of the 4×4, having no dental plan and living from paycheque to paycheque, often because of circumstances beyond their control.

The public service is extremely well paid, great benefits, job security and a retirement pension arrangement that far too many only dream of.

To ask for more is not exactly being fair to all the other citizens if it means they have to do with less.

Yesterday JohnnyBelt posted the following:

“Looks like we’re trying to replicate what happened in Greece.”

Unfortunately JohnnyBelt I would say we in Canada are already there.

Did you know that in the calendar year 2013 it took the Governments (Federal, Provincial, and Municipal), businesses, and households in Canada to take on $313 billion in debt just for us to maintain the status quo in this country? The total debt outstanding in Canada as of June, 2014 was $5.64 trillion.

The total debt outstanding in Canada is on the bottom line of the following data table from Statistics Canada.

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/pick-choisir?lang=eng&p2=33&id=3780122

Charles posted a good link in the other thread which illustrates my point:

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/08/28/high-times-for-the-public-sector/

“Government employees make up most of the top 10% of income earners

The last few years have truly been high times for public sector unions while the vast majority of Canadians have been harmed by the unions’ excessive influence.”

Since the website changeover there seems to be an issue with posts with links in them not appearing promptly on the website. I am sure it is one of those growing pain problems which will get resolved in due time.

Noway, how do you reason your arguments with reality? There’s no correlation.

JohnnyBelt:
it’s all labout priorities.
Whereas some people prefer to work nights, weekends and stat holidays and let teachers raise their kids, others devote time to their families.
This gov’t’s priotities include significant tax cuts to large corporation, a very expensive stadium roof and reduced education funding; not eveyone shares this gov’t’s priorities.

JB, I was logging on to post a link to a VERY interesting article, but was very pleased to see that you already posted it.

Obviously Karrman didn’t bother to read it, so I’ll post it again!

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/08/28/high-times-for-the-public-sector/

Come on Karrman, I read the posts that you suggest that I read. A little reciprocity from you would be nice! Follow the link and read the article. Maybe you might start to understand my level of disdain for greedy Public Sector UNIONS!

This is reality Dow7501! Death and taxes you can’t escape either. The teachers will get a raise no if ands or buts. The next in line will get a raise, all the of government will give themselves a raise. This isn’t new and it is reality like it or not our taxes are going up. Next!

Did you follow the link and read it yet Karrman??

Pretty hard to shed tears for our Public Sector Workers after reading that, eh??

Come on, Karrman, admit it! You were a bit shocked, weren’t you!! It’s pretty hard not to be shocked!!!

NoWay “BC has too much to ever be a have not”

Oh we of short memories…