$2.3 Million for 20 students. Ouch.

Congratulations! Money well spent! The children and the teachers will love it!

So how many Teachers are we talking here?

Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 10:59 AM by JohnnyBelt

$2.3 Million for 20 students. Ouch.

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An absolutely crazy amount of cash for 20 students.

Plus now you’ve got ongoing staffing, upkeep, and maintenance. For an area that I’m sure is not in a state of growth. What part of the story am I missing here?

You are missing the fact that not everyone wants to warehouse their kids in giant schools, or raise them in town. Kids raised in rural areas deserve to be home after school and not live on a school bus. A state of growth doesn’t have to include heavy industry, there are numerous farms in the area that supply everything from hay to veggies to meat to the area.

The part where the parents screamed really loud plus it was seen as a vital part of the community hence the Regional District kicking in a portion. On the education part the provincial government will pay $90,000 a year in principal and interest – over 30 years – or, about $500.00 per school day. At first blush this seems stupid, but, not so sure you can bus kids for $500.00 a day. Oddly, this at worse was a break even idea – because busing kids is not an optimal solution.

What part of the story am I missing here?

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Rumour has it that this school was spared during the last round of closures because one of the trustees had her kids in it.

You are exactly right Axeman, one of the trustees did have her children in that school. Not sure though that was the main reason it was saved but the money spent is not justifiable for the quoted 20 students.

“On the education part the provincial government will pay $90,000 a year in principal and interest – over 30 years -”

Just let one assistant manager go in one of the many departments and ask the others to work a bit harder! There is the money! The public sector is bloated beyond belief! I put the safety of the children first, especially in the winter time!

Retard! Just like the 15 million dollar bridge the government built at Upper Fraser a year after they shut down the Canfor sawmill. How many people live on the other side 50 people? I am sure they could have continued using the rail bridge like they did the past 50 yrs.

Nice to see a rural school built instead of being closed down.

Anyone refute ski51?

$2.3 Million for 20 students. Ouch.
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An absolutely crazy amount of cash for 20 students.

First, given an expected 30 year life span, that will come to more than 20 students. Try 600, for those that are challenged in math.
Second, suggest what is an acceptable price for such a building, or to educate that number of people? Remember that building an ordinary house costs in the vicinity of $200/square foot, and public school buildings have to meet far more stringent safety regulations regarding access, fire, earthquake, vandalism, etc.
Maybe the students and teachers should be housed in tents, that would save a lot of money. If you donate the tent, that would save even more.

chuck: “First, given an expected 30 year life span, that will come to more than 20 students. Try 600, for those that are challenged in math. ”

Ok, so it’s $2.3 Million for the building + Staffing, Operation and Maintenance costs for 30 years for 600 students. Do I have that right? It doesn’t sound any better.

Ruralmom: “You are missing the fact that not everyone wants to warehouse their kids in giant schools, or raise them in town.”

You are missing the fact that this arrangement is being heavily subsidized by so-called ‘urban’ taxpayers. I don’t think it’s sustainable to put a school like this in every small rural community for such a small number of students.

The Province of BC administers a budget of roughly $44 billion dollars. I’m pretty sure they can find $2.1 million to fund a new school so that kids outside of PG can receive a reasonable education without sitting on a bus for 3 hours a day.

Yes $2.1 million is allot of money, but when looked at as a component of Provincial spending, it’s a rounding error. In the context of Provincial operations, if we have politicians running around looking to save a couple million here and a couple of million there, they are REALLY missing the boat . . .

Just read in the paper about 10-15 permanent jobs at the new Graymont Quarry. Pretty sure some families will settle in the area.

Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 12:58 PM by chuck

$2.3 Million for 20 students. Ouch.
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An absolutely crazy amount of cash for 20 students.

First, given an expected 30 year life span, that will come to more than 20 students. Try 600, for those that are challenged in math.

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You’re delusional if you think enrollment is going to be anywhere close to 20 every year for the next 30. If they’re lucky they might have 3 or 4 students in ten year’s time.

Consider that the new Duchess Park was on the order of 40 million for what 900 kids? So that baseline is $44,000 per kid. Giscome is more like 115k/kid because the economy of scale is just not there. That amount is somewhat reduced as the district tossed in some money to pay for the community center portion.

Sounds like someone decided that the difference amortized over 30 years ($2350+interest per kid per year) was a better option than busing that kid for a total of what? You probably have to pay at least 80-100K per year for driver, bus, fuel, etc? Probably more. And that alone is a total of 4-5 thousand per kid per year.

So its not as if it would have been totally free to put these kids into town.

Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 1:27 PM by parnelli

Just read in the paper about 10-15 permanent jobs at the new Graymont Quarry. Pretty sure some families will settle in the area.

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Holy cow is all I can say! “The proposed lime kilns stand to be a major new source of greenhouse gases – with the potential to increase the province’s carbon dioxide emissions by 0.32 to 1.24 per cent above 2012 levels…”

However, I would imagine that most of the work force will continue to reside in or closer to PG (and it’s amenities) while commuting to the mine.

“If they’re lucky they might have 3 or 4 students in ten year’s time.”

Looks like your crystal ball needs a new battery.

This school would have made sense back in the past when people actually lived out in rural communities.

If they truly kept it open because one of the trustee’s children goes/went there… well, that’s messed up.

Hey axeman quit breathing that will cut down on plant fertilizer.

sorry everyone that likes a conspiracy theory, a trustees children did go there, and was not allowed (due to conflict of interest) to have any input into the proceedings of the school, and was not in the area within a year of it closing, nor was she elected the following term when it was decided to build the school.

I don’t think its that bad. Bussing costs alone would eat up a lot of that amount per year. Besides that, what is that three hours a day per child worth in terms of their playtime or just any sort of productive family time? The there is the safety aspect of them being on the road that long everyday.
I’m very happy for them. Parents and kids too.

Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 2:31 PM by PrinceGeorge

“If they’re lucky they might have 3 or 4 students in ten year’s time.”

Looks like your crystal ball needs a new battery.

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Tell me that in ten years.

Don’t worry, be happy! I shall remind you in ten years! No problem!

Thanks to Give More, exactly my thoughts too!

Yeah, why worry? It’s only tax dollars. There’s always more where that came from.

This isn’t just a school, it’s also a community center now for the area. A place where they can have events, etc. The article fails to mention that part. This is why the Regional District funded a portion of it.

Great news for Giscome. Children deserve to be close to home. Winter roads and a school bus don’t mix . Safety of young children is worth 2.3 million dollars. Pull you heads out of the manure pile.

Maybe they should look at rebuilding the Bear Lake School as well. After all there must be close to 20 kids out that way and they still have industry operating out there.

Not one comment about whether we can afford it? Boggles the mind.

Having the school building as a comunity centre makes sense. Multi use of the building. Probably the only reason it got built.

Bet most of the negative comments come from people who live in the polluted airshed of the bowl area in PG and not in the beautiful, clear air of the Willow – Giscome area.

Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 7:43 PM by maverick 1965

Maybe they should look at rebuilding the Bear Lake School as well. After all there must be close to 20 kids out that way and they still have industry operating out there.

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No trustees from Bear Lake. This is politics plain and simple.

A wonderful facility, and to those that don’t like it, just try and raise a cow or chicken or farm in close to PG, or find the gov’t agent in Upper Fraser. Kind of like a spoke and an axel, both very useful things when you put them together, but nothing when they are apart. This was the one of two schools projected to go up in population (Nukkko was the other, interestingly) during the DSC process, is a very long bus ride for the very young children who live in SD57 (yep, still part of the area). And if you don’t think people should live rurally, guess you do not like to camp, hunt fish, or recreate out of town, cause that’s why the roads are maintained out there, people! And no, no trustee family in that school when it was decided to stay open or rebuild, get your facts right axman

You have my vote 1 canada! so when are they starting the Bear Lake project?

when the bear lake community comes up with a plan and a need and the students (less than 6 last time I checked)it takes a strong community, a lot of work and a long time (5+ years) to build a community school, just ask Hixon, they have a great community and school also. Great job rural Canada!!

So I guess a community without a school makes it not very attractive living for young people who want families than. How many kids live out at Nukko Lake?
Lets see, Bear Lake must have had 350 kids attending that school 45 yrs ago and now you say there is only 6?
So what is the average ages of the 20 kids attending Giscome?

Canada wants its population to grow to 63 million in 10 years. I think it better start now opening more schools.

People can’t afford kids anymore, hire another teacher

Excellent investment of our tax dollars IMO. Students should not have to be bused three hours a day to attend school. This is an area that will be experiencing significant growth in the coming years of school aged children so this is a good time to make this investment.

The Graymount mine will be supporting upwards of 70 families in the area in a few years time and the student population could easily increase by 6-fold once the lime operations are in full swing. Most will not want to commute that road to work every day and so will likely live in the immediate area. A guy I work with already bought property out there anticipating the new jobs.

I think you look at the payroll taxes and the royalties from the new lime operation and that alone pays for the infrastructure of this school in their community. Lots of future logging potential in that area as well as we wind down in the Southwest of town and start moving out Northeast again.

Good thing Lyn Hall didn’t have a say in the matter. He closed what 25 community centers and schools privatizing them to junk yard collectors that make the playgrounds off limits to families.

Axeman are you Lyn Hall?

Lots happening out Bear Lake way with logging, mining exploration of the rare earth metal as well as the sawmill which is still in operation out. So your point being Eagleone?

If you look at Ministry of Education enrollment projections, elementary enrollment will go up (way up) between 2016 and 2022, so more elementary schools will be needed in the next few years and Lyn Hall was instrumental in Giscome project being completed. Unfortunately for Mr. Hall, the government changed to per student funding (from a per facility funding formula) during his tenure as trustee and the SD deficit accounting caught up to them sooner than they thought it would. Remember Mr. Pepper being quoted as saying “we always knew we would have to pay the piper, just did not think it would be this soon” Not Mr. Halls choice, just poor timing.

Last I heard was maybe 20 jobs when the mine was in full operation.

i don’t see your vision 1 canada. Gone are the days of 10 children families.

not my vision maverick1965, check the MoEd’s enrollment projections on their website, their numbers, not mine and in all sectors of elementary schools. But, that being said, more people are looking to live rural than in the last 50 years due to health and quality of life expectations, and schools definitely help families make the choice to live where they want. IMHO part of what makes Canada a great place to live and part of our culture and history.

Might be sound little skeptical but the people who conducted the enrollment projection ever drug tested? Hopefully they are right though.

Fantastic! A lot of hard work went into getting this done. For those who do not remember what happened 5 years ago, Giscome School closed its doors due to the building being unsafe. It was shut down a year before the other schools closing down. This was built because of the loud voices of not only parents but all citizens in the area. The East Line was IMO taken for a ride by the NDP not as long ago as you all may think. Possibly why there is still a sour taste in the mouth of the long time residents in the area. The truth is Northern BC would do so much better if the lower mainland wasn’t taking all the resource money from the north. Of course I am pleased with this school/centre because yes it directly affects me. However this was mostly built because there were persons who fought tooth and nail for it, and they deserve it. For those complaining, I have a question for you. When have you put as much time as the volunteers did for this long to get this? Have you ever done something for your community that took as much guts and sweat and tears and prayers as these persons did? The School District and RD is doing something very new here….more likely they are going backwards to a time when School and Community were actually one place. Cheers East Liners!! Please everyone come out to Willow River on Sunday for the last East Line Farmers Market of the year!

Ironic comments, taxednmaxed. I guess you’re only taxednmaxed when the tax dollars aren’t spent for your direct benefit.

We’ve lost 40% of students in SD57 since 2001, yet we’re building $2.3 million schools for 20 students.

taxednmaxed that’s awesome of you. I agree everyone that was involved should get a pat on the back. Having said that, don’t you have an obligation to fill the school? get busy and quit blogging!

hahaha…Yes I already produced my offspring and will be heading into that school. As well my “name” has to do more with the taxes I pay on gas etc. and the wastes of money in the north that are directed south (thought I may have made that clear in my post already). I am not maxed if it is towards Rural Canada. The MOE paid for the classrooms…The money for the activity centre was brought in by grants, grants that were not easy to get. That took a lot of work to get. So yeah I am patting backs. I am proud of these communities. I would be proud of any community that could benefit. “Community” is being lost. A community that fights like this one, that fights together is something to be proud of. JB, seriously I read your bolgna day in and day out here on O250. You seem like a grumpy old man….I guess we need you to keep big dreams on a realistic level. See I can find the positive…. Oh Yeah JB you didn’t answer my question.

I have a question for you. When have you put as much time as the volunteers did for this long to get this?

C’mon JB tell us what you do, not how you make money but what you do for the world around you? What do you do to better your community? Or do you really bash everything? I bet you are fun to converse with…I am sure very progressive. Done blogging now, have to work…with my youngest in tow, my oldest is in school….oh wait no he is being babysat by some educated teachers, learning nothing….(That was sarcasm btw) We have a couple of truly fantastic teachers out here at the new Giscome Elementary school!

taxednmaxed who is J.B?

It’s rather unfortunate that the school district didn’t make a submission regarding Graymont’s A.I.R. document. The kiln will cover Giscome school with fugitive dust, as well as heavy metals, being only 700 meters away.Should worksafe B.C. take notice? The only reasonable and safe location for the lime kiln is beside the quarry.

JohnnyBelt = JB

@taxed: Nobody is telling you not to be proud of where you live or not volunteer. I do a lot of volunteering myself. But that is not the point.

It is not ‘bashing’ to question why this school was built at large taxpayer expense for so few students, when other such schools in other small communities have been closed. Whether you like it or not, the trend is that people are moving away from rural communities and into more urban settings, so it is unlikely this school will ever see more than 20 students at any given time in its history.

So in short, enjoy your school and be thankful to us urban dwellers for subsidizing it.

You ever ask yourself why people are moving into urban areas J.B. were taxes and city services are high?
Couldn’t be that they were forced to because of all the rural school closures could it?

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 @ 7:32 AM by Eagleone

Axeman are you Lyn Hall?

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Resorting to insults now? I’m hurt. :)

:This was the one of two schools projected to go up in population (Nukkko was the other, interestingly) during the DSC process, is a very long bus ride for the very young children who live in SD57 (yep, still part of the area).:

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I’ve channeled my inner gus but I can find nothing that supports this argument. Everything I’ve read speaks to the contrary; enrollment is declining in SD 57, even at Giscome.

Maverick, the people moved away, enrollments declined, and schools closed. Not the other way around. We’re also seeing this trend in urban centres. People are just not having as many kids as they used to.

Also, it’s too bad that we can’t have a conversation about this without being dismissed as ‘a grumpy old man’, a dream squasher, or anti-rural community. It seems that nothing will ever change, and we will continue on the unsustainable path we’re on.

You keep telling yourself that J.B. I guess people moving away from these areas couldn’t have had anything to do with the constant rumors of school closers and the parents fearing for their children’s safety having to commute on school buses at such a young age.

The statistics don’t lie. I know that’s not what people like to hear.