First of all thank you Ben and Elaine for talking to the City Candidates on the radio it gives people a chance to see what they are all about, could you let us know when the next Candidates forum is. Jason, you did well, but moving the no income people around into residential is not a good idea as what has happened to the Connaught Miller,and the VLA, we have way more that our share. With all the HELP agencies in the City there is a lot of double book keeping going on , Northern Health is the worst offender and the B.C. Government should be looking into it as it is top heavy. As a city we have to decide where we are going. Are we going to be productive or are we going to be known as a place to go to get free lodging.

I agree with Luke about the city not needing to use as many consultants but saying the company that they chose was “is like asking a company in Hawaii how to teach us to play hockey.” shows his lack of knowledge.

Please check your facts. The company they used is an international company with more than enough expertise to write the report. You may recognize some of their clients:
U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps
30 of the 50 states in the U.S.
Provinces of Ontario and Saskatchewan and the Yukon Territory

These are just a couple. I am just saying be careful what you say. I appreciate the enthusiasm but keep your facts straight.

Council candidate Jason Luke says going to an American company to find out how to remove snow “is like asking a company in Hawaii how to teach us to play hockey.”

This is a lost leader, removal of snow (as are many other tasks) is a logistics challenge , with an eye on efficiency and economy. It’s the logistics of doing a task with these parameters in mind for hiring a consultant with these skills. Its like a good manager, he/she is one that can apply their skills to many differing activities. Obviously this consultant brings these skills to the table, thus engaged by the city.
So, J Luke, poor shot at the ‘dumb down’.

The feedback is appreciated everyone. My comment on snow removal regarding “is like asking a company in Hawaii how to teach us to play hockey” was meant to be tongue in cheek. Clearly a well respected company. My point being, we are already supposed to be experts on all the logistics of removing snow. We already “employ” people whose job it is to make sure a plan is in place for equipment replacement and maintenance, staffing, where and when the best place to start in town to remove snow, etc., It seems like the easy answer from the city is always going to a consultant. As far as moving the problems in the downtown to other areas, I didn’t mean specifically right into a residential area, but to other areas of town to spread it out, and suggested that there maybe be a rural school empty that maybe able to be used for something to help out some of these people and agencies. What is the answer on this, I don’t think anyone has the answer or it would have been done by now. The best solution is probably getting different groups, city council, and the general public to have an open forum on this or any topic to help each other come to a solution. I appreciate the comments. Open dialog and transparency is always the best. Cheers!

The inability of the City to have a comprehensive snow removal program is the direct consequence of a Management problem, exacerbated by a Union problem.

Both sides are highly paid, have good working conditions, good benefits, and for some reason cannot seem to deliver the services that tax payers are paying for.

We have been removing snow for over 100 years. We have been removing snow in the outlying areas since amalgamation in 1975. There may be some problems because of money, or equipment, however this is a Management problem. Do we get good production from the Union for money paid. Well use your own judgment on that one.

If these people cannot solve the snow removal problem in a winter city without going to outside sources then they are basically of no use to the taxpayers of Prince George. The solution (which I am not in support of at this time) is fire the Managers and contract out the work. This is what will happen if they don’t get their s..t together.

I agree Palopu. My website with video is http://www.jasonluke4citycouncil.com/ and my cell is 250-301-9960. Cheers!

Successful organizations work with the union , not against it.

We need to listen to the men and women on the ground doing the work. They probably have many ideas on what is the best way to do the job. Its a shame that the 2 sides went to battle with each other when they could be working together to solve the problem.

I suppose as a business person, if I had 3 pieces of snow removal equipment sitting idle for several days, on a days when I could be making huge money, I would be very upset. It felt like we had the opposite reaction at the city. Their reaction seemed like – No big deal, we get paid anyway. This is the problem.

When private industry has equipment sitting idle we don’t get paid and we go out of business. Does not matter how nice a person we are. It is why some of us look like jerks at times, because we are the ones who lose our homes when our employees are not out working. If our managers allow this, we fire them. Just sayin.

Change can scare many people who for one reason or another are very comfortable with the status quo! Don’t let that discourage you Jason!

Maybe someone knows this. So, who actually removes the snow – city employees, or contractors. If it’s mostly city employees, if they aren’t removing snow, what are they doing at that time. The point I’m awkwardly trying to make, is let’s say it’s snowing. If we have employees who do snow removal, and they aren’t out plowing the snow until it get’s to the magic 8 cm or whatever it is, just what are they doing? It would seem to me they are paid whether they remove snow, or do something else. So why not remove snow as soon as practical, and do the something else later. I’m assuming if they work for the city, they come to work every day, so what do they while they wait for there to be the right amount of snow. About the only extra cost I can see, is equipment cost, and contractor cost, so when they come up with this magic how much it cost number, are they double counting the wages they have to pay city employees whether they plow snow or do something else?

@ski.

I believe the operators are contracted. Don’t quote me on it tho.

JasonLuke. You should take a trip to Niagara Falls, not a pan handler or homeless person to be seen anywhere. Same thing with virtually every small community we visited while over there in Ontario. For some reason they can have entertainment districts without the challenges faced in PG?????

It can’t be all contractors. The reason we had the snow apocalypse was because they had scheduled too many holidays and implied it was union contract troubles – which wouldn’t apply to contractors – so we must have employees who do what when they aren’t removing snow, and is that really more important than removing snow?

@jim

Likely it was just the perception of the “undesirables” not being around. They will be and are always around, its just when people like you and I outnumber then 10, 15-1 they are not noticeable.

IMO this is the issue in DT. If there were more services and thing for US to do down there then the “undesirables” would not be so visible. Kelowna, Kamloops, Red Deer, Nanaimo. The only difference is the ratio.

phje

I would think that all the equipment owned by the city is operated by the city’s unionized workforce. They just hired a half a dozen or so seasonal equipment operators, plow trucks, grader and loader operators. What they do when the equipment is parked, other than saving fuel, is anybody’s guess.

Don’t agree with Luke’s idea for a poll on the city’s website as results are too easily manipulated and therefore meaningless.

Checkmark on fluoride. Not so much on moving social agencies to vacant rural schools, Haldi Road fiasco still a sore spot.

Efficient snow removal should be a non issue. Just get the bloody job done. We have the money, equipment, and men. Hopefully last year was an anomaly, and this year we will get back to the business of pushing snow.

Its really not all that complicated. Only Governments can take a basically simple system, and turn it into a disaster.

We need responsibility at City Hall. Without responsibility we have Managers, that basically have free rein, without any consequences for their actions. Which is what happened with the snow removal.

phje, you nailed it IMHO. There are those who are less fortunate in every city in Canada. The difference, as you pointed out, is that it stands out so much in PG because the downtown core is basically void of activity. Bringing more people into the downtown core won’t fix the social problems, but it will definitely improve the perception people have about the downtown core.

It is kinda like a game of whack-a-mole. I don’t think the residents of the Homeland Inn vanished into thin air when the city pulled the business license. It is likely some of them are now street dwellers while others have found other places to reside and are still abusing the same substances as when they lived at the Homestead.

There was a story on the news a while ago that one of the Olympic village buildings was turned into social housing and has become a mid rise version of the Homeland with broken windows and doors, needles scattered around outside and drug dealers hanging around. The police are at the place at least twice a day. All of this in a building only a few years old and worth millions (but going down). There are condos worth millions a stones throw away whose residents are a lot more forgiving than I would be.

Services for these people have to be somewhere, residential and rural locations will not work and having them concentrated in the dead center of the core is also not that appealing. I would scatter these services on the fringes of the core in areas closer to commercial and light industrial property than residential neighbourhoods.

Perhaps all the consultant work indicates a skill gap that is present, or just a lack of manpower. I don’t know how many hours of effort would go into a report that costs around $130k to produce, but I imagine it’s a lot. Let’s assume that 15% of the bill was for incidentals, travel, etc.. That leaves $130,000 * 85% = $110,500. Even if the hourly rate averaged $150/hr, that’s potentially 737 labour hours, assuming a 40 hr work week, that would tie up one person for over 18 weeks. I’m betting the report results were put on a tight timeline too, so that whatever the results, the resultant changes could be implemented by next snow season which is now upon us.

Either way, that’s a lot of money, however, with a $5 – 6 million annual budget, if the changes implemented generate efficiencies and serve to get the roads cleaned quicker and more efficiently, it may well be worth the investment. Time will tell…

Didn’t once upon a time, operations staff travel to Japan to learn from their snow removal system? As I understand it, Japan gets massive amounts of snow in some areas that would put Prince George’s paltry sum to shame. What happened to that knowledge exchange? I actually found the report that was done in 2004 under Kinsley’s “leadership.” 10 years ago and what was yielded from that investment? http://www.princegeorge.ca/cityservices/transportation/Documents/IAMNC-Snow-Mgmt-Draft.pdf

Move the Spruce Kings to Kin 1 and then retrofit the coliseum to fit a performing arts centre? Where would you displace the current users of Kin 1 to then? All our arenas are pretty much fully utilized from what I understand. Seems a hasty suggestion.

As already stated, because it is very clearly understood that website polls are statistically irrelevant for obvious reasons. Folks with lots of time on their hands and lots to complain about chime in over and over again, skewing the results. Would be mostly a wasted effort I’m sure.

There is a comedy club downtown, it’s called City Hall. Haven’t you been? I don’t think those folks need anymore drink though.

Moving social services to a rural school is a total nonstarter. How many homeless people do you think own cars? Keeping those big buildings operating is very expensive. Moving them around isn’t fixing anything. The reason all those services are downtown, is because it’s central and easier for them to access multiple services at one time. I’ve lived in Prince George for a very long time and have spent a lot of time downtown, and I’ve NEVER had a problem. They mostly keep to themselves. Think this can’t happen to you? Ever asked any of them how many of them predicted when they were kids that they would have ended up on the street? A lot of these people have medical, mental health issues and are simply incapable of holding down any type of job. Don’t want to see them on the streets, get involved in finding them homes. A little compassion can go a long way.

“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.” Herman Melville.

You may have some ideas Mr. Luke, but I’m not certain how practical some of them would actually turn out to be.