Almost seems like they are so focused on plowing, that they are forgetting to sand too., based on what Ive seen traveling around town

I can tell you that the intersection of Queensway and 20th (on 20th) is EXTREMELY slippey (as has been in past winters) Somehow they (the city) just can’t seem to make that safe – maybe pour some more salt/sand?

First of all learn to drive for the conditions.
Cheers

I know how slippery the off ramp at 97 and Ferry can be, but if you look at the picture of the accident at Queensway it appears the road has quite a bit of sand on it. Done afterwards?

People can tell those to drive to the conditions but yet the conditions of the road are sometimes no match for “driving to the road conditions”. Does that make sense? Therefore should we just stop driving because the road ALSO plays a huge role in these types of crashes not just the person behind the wheel? Give that some thought. These types of stories are just redundant when there is no information to even say what happened, we just assume the obvious. I probably don’t even have to state the obvious since many are so smart they can just figure it out on their own.

“First of all learn to drive for the conditions. ”
I was driving slowly down the hill on Massey towards Westwood last night, when the light changed to yellow, with plenty of room to stop. (I thought) That intersection was so slick and shiny that my truck would not stop until out into the intersection. Thankfully all the people stopped at that intersection waited until I had cleared it to go.
There is NO sand out there this year. Plowing is much better, but they don’t seem to be sanding or salting the roads.
As far as learn to drive for the conditions, what could I do differently? I was going slowly. The light changed with quite a bit of room for me to slow to a stop. I am a cautious driver with a clear abstract. I’ve never been in an accident. I have studded winter tires. It was just so slippery.

Sand will not stick to ice, it’s just blown off by the traffic, and salt is not effective below -10…not much that crews can do

News2me: Something that helps is slipping the transmission into neutral. Then you don’t have the drive wheels trying to overcome the brakes. You get equal braking on all four wheels. You can feather your brakes much more gently that way and prevent the tires from locking up.

Yes, I know its illegal to coast with the trans in neutral but if it prevents an accident, who’s is going to say anything?

The “road conditions” mantra – one I like to use, isn’t always the answer. There are times a section of road is just so bad, the correct speed would be about 20 km an hour and then you’d have all sorts of chaos behind you as people attempted to pass.

Where it does apply, in cases like foothills last night, around about 6:30, I was doing 80 in the outside lane, on the somewhat bare, probably a little iced section, and I was following two other vehicles and a couple followed me, and three other vehicles were driving about 90 km an hour on the inside lane, on loose dry powder – I guess to pass us to get to the turn off 10 seconds sooner, and I’m just hoping they’re in 4wd and don’t start sliding sideways. So, that’s when the mantra applies, in cases where the speed limit is 80, I was driving too fast, and someone was driving even faster, and if there’s an accident, it doesn’t matter what the city does, we’re the problem.

Now, why do I do 80, try doing 70 km an hour, and see what happens from behind you. I’d rather take my chances of having to make an emergency stop on ice, than have some guy pass me on a blind corner because he can’t handle going 20 km under his favorite speed limit. Again, no traffic enforcement, wild west out there, protect yourself. All RCMP are good for, is an accident investigation, and a warning about the obvious.

“In today’s world of Front Wheel Drive, All-Wheel Drive and ABS, putting the car into neutral has no effect on braking distance,” said Ian Law, chief instructor with ILR Car Control School. “ “Putting a vehicle into neutral to shorten stopping distances on ice and snow was the way to do it back in the days of vehicles with rear-wheel drive, no ABS and automatic transmissions – especially big American V8 cars and trucks with more than a ton of weight on the front tires.”

Traction, traction, traction. With this you have steering control, braking force and motive force. Couple with this a bit of added weight over the driving axles and you are “almost” set for the conditions. Adding time to your busy schedule for reduced travel speeds, shoving all the useless dashboard crap in the glove box and focusing on the art of winter driving is your only task behind the wheel.

1) Following distance needs to be increased in poor weather conditions.
2) Properly equipped vehicle (studded winter tires on all four wheels).
3) Properly inflated tires ( more paw on the road equals more control).
4) Properly cleared windshield, back and side windows. Foggy windows incl.
5) Driving at a safe speed for visibility and conditions.

If you have done your due diligence in the above respects, there is no reason for you to lose control. Your business is that of driving, that’s what is going on in front and to the sides of you. Don’t worry about what is behind you unless you’re backing up. If other motorists don’t like your speed they can find another route or pass you when it’s safe.

Reading some people’s posts, it’s no wonder there are so many problems with driving in the winter.

Jimmy he was driving a truck and if in 2 wheel rear drive, tranny in neutral still applies. Works in my truck.

(She) drives a rear wheel drive V8 truck with an automatic tranny and ABS. It was, but is not always, in 4wheel drive. Does neutral still work?

I guess ABS is okay for people who don’t know any better. I’ve had ABS in three of my vehicles. I don’t use it. I brake gently enough so that it doesn’t have to come on. With ABS, the wheels have to skid before the brakes release a little bit, so they are skidding part of the time. If you brake gently your wheels don’t skid at all, thus giving you more stopping power. Resisting without sliding.
What Ian Law said only applies to people who don’t know any better than to stomp on their brakes, or can’t feel what their tires are doing.

Professional, I couldn’t have said it better. The most serious problem in driving a vehicle is concentrating on driving a vehicle. The last thing they seem to do is drive with a skill set for the activity they’re doing at the time.
This also applies to joggers who don’t get out of the traveled portion of the lane when a vehicle comes along.
I still shake my head at these folks who have all the dingly dangly stuff hanging off the mirror which is a perfect blind spot,which goes along with their junk on the dash.
On another matter, I have seen vehicles idling at intersections with a wheel going round and round on the ice, funny to see.
I have used neutral coming up to icy intersections and stopped in time and seen other hit the brakes and slide through. Neutral does help put brakes on all four wheels and the drive wheel ain’t turning.
Haven’t seen a road yet I haven’t been able to safely navigate in any season, but you gotta look further than where you’re driving and see what’s coming up ahead. Wish more folks would take a defensive driving course and understand that.
At a high speed driving course I attended years ago the instructor said, “In a critical incident, don’t worry about what’s behind you, look where you wanna go and go there, you will find that you minimize the risk to yourself and probably others as well” And it works. Been there.

The other thing people don’t seem to understand is their automatic transmission. Gearing down to 2cnd and 1st really helps, but most folks out there seem to think D and brake. Starting out from stop in second gives you more traction as well.

Hey good point professional. I made one trip from Burns Lake that took 7 hour in January. It started to rain shortly after I got on the road. The road was a sheet of glass. There were two loaded logging trucks in the ditch just west of Vanderhoof. My half ton had these mud grips on the rear end and an ordinary type tire on front. My employer didn’t provide studs or fancy winter tires

There were a few vehicle that were fallowing but they had the sense to keep following I guess they thought if he’s still on the road we are OK.

And know one will ever tell me that driving for the conditions is just a lot of talk. It is all important to slow down and if you don’t like the traffic behind you pull over and let them, pass..
Cheers

I cannot believe some of the things being said. You do not shift into neutral to slow down on ice. That is outdated advice at best, and just wrong and potentially dangerous at worst.

The Globe and Mail (for one) had an article on the subject, which can be easily googled:

——

“True or false: Should I put my car in neutral to stop on ice?”

“The advice is good – if you’re driving a 1977 Ford LTD.

But shifting to neutral won’t help you stop faster in a modern car – and it could make you lose control, driving experts say.

“In today’s world of Front Wheel Drive, All-Wheel Drive and ABS, putting the car into neutral has no effect on braking distance,” said Ian Law, chief instructor with ILR Car Control School. “ “Putting a vehicle into neutral to shorten stopping distances on ice and snow was the way to do it back in the days of vehicles with rear-wheel drive, no ABS and automatic transmissions – especially big American V8 cars and trucks with more than a ton of weight on the front tires.”

“Leave the car in gear, you never know when you may have to make a quick maneuver for a surprise event,” Greiner said. “A momentary delay in getting the car back into gear can mean many meters travelled down the road.”

So if putting your car into neutral won’t shorten stops, what will?

“Have four top quality winter tires installed and most importantly, slow down and look farther up the road,”

Johnny, for crying out loud, it works! Done it many times on my rear wheel drive jeep.
And yes, having good winter tires helps.

From the same article: “In any vehicle there is always some forward push from the drive wheels when in gear, so yes, perhaps you’d see a tiny decrease in forward momentum – it’s probably imperceptible to most drivers,” says Steve Greiner with the Motorport Club of Ottawa, which has a winter driving school. “But any gain is easily lost by the sudden weight transfer to the front of the car as you remove power from the drive wheels – this could easily upset the car and induce a skid.”

Please return your DL to the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, griz.

Even with an automatic transmission, use the gears to aid in slowing down. Most people don’t seem to be able to see past the hood of their vehicle. Next time your in a parking lot look at the front wheels of the vehicles around you (tougher in the winter). You can get an idea of how a person drives by how much brake dust is on the front rims.

Digit: “Even with an automatic transmission, use the gears to aid in slowing down.”

No. Just about every professional driver disagrees with you. Unless you’re driving on steep hills, there is no need to do so in modern cars. You’re saving cheap brakes by using an expensive transmission to slow your car.

Have to agree with griz with direct experience in rear wheel drive with almost 50 years experience to back it up. On an ice surface with a rear wheel drive when the brakes are applied the front wheels will lock, the rear wheels will continue driving because of the little pressure required to stop the front wheels. It only takes slight pressure to stop the front wheels which is not enough to stop the rear wheels which are driven by the engine. Neutral will give more control. Now saying that, newer rear wheel drive vehicles may have an algorithm in their stability system to sense that along with ABS to stop the lock up and rear wheels continuing to spin.

Also I am not a great fan of ABS. I notice when coming to a controlled stop and slowing down before the ABS, if the ABS cuts in the stopping distance increases with no change in the road surface.

“Don’t worry about what is behind you unless you’re backing up. If other motorists don’t like your speed they can find another route or pass you when it’s safe.”

NO, NO, NO. Especially with the new laws in place NO. You have mirrors for a very specific reason, and your awareness as a driver needs to be 360 degrees. If you are incapable of driving the posted speed limit, you are creating a new hazard. You are to drive what you are capable and comfortable with by all means, but ignoring whats coming behind you is NEVER acceptable. Winter driving is much easier if drivers work together. If someone catches up to you, whats it to you if they are more comfortable, better equipped, more skilled or even just stupid and want to go faster, help them out. My truck kicks up a lot of snow dust, so when I see the inevitable line form behind me and I hit a straight away where there is some visibility, I slow down and signal for those behind me to pass before we hit more terrain where my 30 tires create a moving white out. With so many semis on the road you better be aware of whats behind you because in a case of sliding semi vs slow car, you lose if that driver isn’t skilled(all too often the case).

Whether putting it in neutral makes a slight difference or not at least the people that do are putting some thought into their driving, as opposed to a lot of what I’ve seen over the last couple of days.

Okay JB…but I’ve never had transmission trouble nor have I ever rear ended another vehicle. Sorry, I figured we were talking about driving on ice and coming to a controlled stop.

interceptor: “Whether putting it in neutral makes a slight difference or not at least the people that do are putting some thought into their driving,”

‘Putting thought’ means nothing if what you’re doing is wrong or even potentially dangerous. As I said, it’s no wonder PG drivers are amongst the worst.

seamutt: “Have to agree with griz with direct experience in rear wheel drive with almost 50 years experience to back it up.”

How is that 1977 Ford LTD treating you?

Digit: “Okay JB…but I’ve never had transmission trouble nor have I ever rear ended another vehicle.”

If you want to put extra strain on your transmission by unnecessary shifting, that’s none of my business. If you lose control of your vehicle while doing so, that’s a concern.

This is really laughable. Some people are arguing, using what the so called ‘experts’ and books say and others are commenting on their own practical experience.
The fact remains, it does work.

Try backing down a very icy driveway sometime, with it in Drive and then again in neutral. You will see a huge difference in control.
That being said, conditions like News2me mentioned, are out there sometimes and if you do much driving you will encounter them. Just about the only thing you can do with them is start looking for a less travelled (and less iced up) track where you may be able to find a bit better traction. If its freezing rain, there isn’t much you can do. There are lots of youtube videos showing multiple vehicles all sliding down icy hills. Even after they’ve hit the curb, they still slide. Short of wearing chains, there isn’t anything they can do.
Sand does blow off ice, however the five gravel the city uses, stays put a lot better. They just have to use more of it in very slippery conditions, which, it seems they are reluctant to do.

Several years ago, I had to lay it on the line to Argo, with highways inspectors present, to sand more than the fifty feet before intersections on the bypass. That was fine for the first few cars stopping but for all those behind them, there was no sand. They improved their sanding and solved the problem. The intersections on the bypass were very slippery that year.

Sorry, that should have read ‘fine gravel’.

People that learn how to drive from the Toronto Star really should stay home in the winter and post on 250 all day. We will all be safer that way.

Uh, the advice is not from a Toronto Star writer but a professional driver who runs a school. And that’s just one of many. Don’t believe me, google it yourself.

If you want to believe you’re smarter than your car’s modern transmission to know when to shift down (or up for that matter), then I would tell you to think again.

give: “Try backing down a very icy driveway sometime, with it in Drive and then again in neutral. ”

I usually use reverse when backing down a driveway.

“Canada’s Worst Driver” could do a Prince George edition. They were recruiting here not too long ago. I would love to see someone try to explain to a driving expert why they’re shifting their automatic transmission to slow down and do other maneuvers.

Have to agree with JB! Unless when slowly descending a very steep hill shifting an automatic transmission while driving defeats the whole idea of having an automatic transmission in the first place. Modern automatics in all wheel drive vehicles modulate the amount of power directed to individual wheels {both front and rear, left and right)according to various measurements like loss of tire traction and cornering and acceleration forces. There is also a thing called stability control. just one of the many functions that a computer controlled automatic contributes to vehicle safety.