When we talk about a shortage of space at the local prison, and the lack of a concerted program to rehab people who are put in prison, we seem to overlook some things that appear to be obvious.

When people are driving around at night shooting at houses with or without children being present, one has to wonder if there is anything to work with when it comes to rehabilitation. Seems to me that we need to ensure that those people who are a danger to themselves and the public need to be incarcerated over an extended period of time, to ensure the safety of all concerned.

Rehab programs within the prison system, in conjunction with a long term sentence has as much of a chance for success, as probation and a somewhat less structured program. Are we serious about rehab, or are we just paying the concept lip service.

First and foremost we need to stop people from shooting up the town. This means arrests and serious jail time, after which we can look at rehab.

Agreed Palopu. These kids are already off to a tough start in their lives, having idiot parents.

Man, some people are a conservative politician and their handlers’ wet dream. Not much going on upstairs, but true believers in the bill of goods they’ve been sold.

People aren’t born shooting at others, or hating, or being bigoted and violent. They learn these behaviours, they get taught these things. It’s not just a coincidence that in areas where there are huge inequalities present that there is more poverty, more violence, more drug addiction, more mental illness, more illness period and conservative politics is all about creating an environment with ever more levels of inequality, to funnel wealth ever upwards. Their answer to the social ills that follow? Criminalize and incarcerate. It’s not a coincidence that the country with the most inherent inequalities (the U.S.A.) also has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Canada is following down that same path like a zombie.

Should we let people run around that fire weapons in neighbourhoods. No, we shouldn’t, but until we start addressing some of our underlying social ills, things will only continue to spiral out of control. If you think putting this ever growing segment of society in jail for as long as possible is the answer, well open your wallet even wider and start fortifying your homes. You’re going to become collateral damage one way or another. Taxed to death, or killed by your fellow countrymen who’re just desperately trying to survive themselves in a world that discarded them long ago.

Sine Nomine.

Canada/BC has many social programs to help lower income families, in addition we have good medical and education systems. In fact Canada/BC overall is a pretty good place to live.

The people who are in the drug/criminal element business did not get there by accident. Many of them gravitate to this kind of a life style because of the so called prestige, and of course the money.

These people look at you and me as being primarily a..holes, who do not have a clue, and are there to be taken advantage of. Most of the people in our jail system are in fact hardened criminals, and are to a large degree mentally juvenile.

I have talked to a number of these people first hand over the years, and I can tell you getting rehabbed is the furthest thing from their minds. Getting out of jail, and back into the high rolling life style with guns and drugs is where it is for a lot of them.

We can and do rehab those who are sincerely interested in changing their life style, however for those who are not interested, then our next responsibility is to protect society at large, and if this means long term incarceration, then so be it.

Trying to mollycoddle hardened criminals is for the most part a waste of time. Trying to help them while they are incarcerated is an option. Will it take??? Who knows.

Lets see some hard facts on rehab programs over the past 20/30 years. Maybe that would give us some indication of how successful rehab actually is.

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that the whole point I was trying to make was lost on you. Those that can’t see the forest for the trees, have a blind spot they don’t even know is there. It’s the same problem victims of intergenerational poverty have. That don’t know how they got to where they are or see how to get out and we’re not even pretending to try and help anymore. We just want the problem to go away and if that means stuffing them into prison. Oh well. Right?

You must be kidding about BC having great social programs. Where did you glean that information, from BC Liberal advertisements? If you take the time to read any statistics from an even remotely reputable source, you’d see that BC has the highest poverty rates among the provinces. We’ve ranked #1 in child poverty for past dozen years almost. Did you think it was just magic that our income tax rates all of a sudden plummeted to among the lowest in the country? Did you think that wouldn’t come with consequences? And now that we’re $62 billion dollars in debt, what do you think is going to happen to the already paltry and completely inadequate spending levels on social programs? Since the BC Liberals came to power, our provincial debt has almost doubled from $33.8 billion. Now they got all the stupid people of this province hooked on low income taxes and high levels of debt. So the insanity will continue… It’s up to us to stop it, but you first have to wake to the fact that there is a problem. Hopefully you don’t wait until someone sticks a gun in your face and demands your cash or your life and doesn’t really care which you offer up.

Both arguments are valid guys, but at the end of the day it doesn’t stop the idiots from shooting up a house, due more than likely due to a drug debit incurred by the so called “adults” within said house. The point is simple who is protecting the innocent children in the house and the innocent residents living around the target house.

Blame the governments Federal and Provincial as much as you want, but this crap needs to stop by almost any means at this point, for everyone’s safety.

Sine, if they cut the welfare pay in half for single adult males, we’d see an exodus to other higher paying provinces and a drop in the crime rate, and that’d be okay with me.

We have had poverty around this Country for years. The BS equation that Poverty-Equals crime, may be true in some areas but certainly not in all areas. Nor should we be equating poverty with crime because one hell of a lot of people are poor, but not criminals.

So lets quit categorizing people, and look at the real problem, which of course is drugs, money, and crime. We are dealing with the criminal element here, and to try and attach them to low income, or poverty level people, is something taken out of a 1940’s movie.

As far as I am concerned the criminal that comes from a high income, family (and there are lots of those) or from low income families should be treated the same. A criminal is a criminal.

So who’s to blame, the family? the education system? the Government? society at large? or all of the above.

At what point is the criminal responsible for his or her behaviour. Seems from Sine Nomine’s point of view, if a criminal robs someone, or shoots up a house, or assaults someone, we should blame all the above, but mollycoddle
the criminal.

Sorry. mollycoddling is not a solution, its a cop out.

Used to be a time when a man could make an good honest living stamping out automobile bumpers for the Big 3, those days are gone……and Wally MCworld just teaches you that work has no value, AND once you prohibit something , you have an unregulated blackmarket. High risk, high profit , so be it, F the future drive a Lexus now.

Read a book sometime. It could expand your little mind. Assuming it’s not a comic book, or only the nonsense that gets written here.

I’ve worked it sonny, you’ll understand some day.

Which book sine nomine ? I’m reading The zero marginal cost society . It’s about what’s happening Now . It’s one of the most scary books I’ve read in quite some time . Corporations don’t need democracy at all . Need proof ? Corporations operate in democracies , oligopolies , kleptocracies , dictatorships , communist dictatorships and what ever I missed . Which one of those are the biggest pain in the but for corporations ?

Sine Nomine. I suggest that your problem with comprehension of various problems in todays society, is a result of reading to many books,.

Perhaps you should come out of your library and take a walk in the real world, you could possibly learn something.

The form of “to” you’re looking for, Palopu, is “too.” “is a result of reading too many books.” You don’t appear to have even a basic education and you think I have comprehension issues? That’s rich. Do you read at all? Have you ever read a book on social stratification? The ideas I’m presenting to you are not mine and they’re not opinions. These concepts have been demonstrated again and again. There is a direct causal link between great degrees of inequality in a society and the prevalence of social ills — poverty, alcoholism, drug addiction, violence, and criminality all increase in the presence of great inequalities. In societies where there is much less income equality, there are far fewer instances of drug addiction, violence, crime, poverty, mental illness, etc.. It’s a very simple recipe.

As for a practical understanding of the problem, I grew up in that environment. Many of these people I grew up with and called friends are now either dead, in prison, or still living in poverty. These aren’t lifestyle choices. The cards are all stacked against them.

You can never read too many books, Palopu. If one spent their entire life doing nothing but that, it wouldn’t be a wasted life.

So what’s the answer to inequality in our society, Sine Nomine?
The so called simple recipe, what are the ingredients?

Man, I find myself agreeing with some of what you are saying, but cannot imagine how to go about making life fair to everyone.

metalman.