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October 28, 2017 5:25 am

No One Using The “R” Word In Canada

Monday, March 9, 2015 @ 3:45 AM

While the banks , government and industry are not yet ready to use the “R” word there are some very uneasy people in the board rooms and in the decision making rooms of government.

Alberta has to face the fact that they are going to have a major deficit because of the drop in oil revenues. The governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan and the federal government are in lock step trying to stave off the fact that along with the reduction of government revenue, a large number of folks  in the  work force suddenly find themselves without a job and that adds to the problem.

It is hard to imagine that we will, even if the economy tightens up, see the housing market go into the tank. There is not likely to be a rush to foreclose on homes as there was in the early 80’s when mortgage rates were in the double digits . The spread between mortgage rates and what the banks are paying out in interest rates are so small, in many cases less than 2 points,  that they don’t have the appetite even if the country was in recession to move to foreclose.

The banks long ago spotted the area to make money, big money and they have been exploiting it ever since . The credit card debt in Canada is enormous. It is to a point where governments have been concerned with our debt load in Canada. The difference however is the banks can enjoy a spread of between 15%  and 18%  on their money , problem is of course, much of it is unsecured.

So do we see a downturn in the economy in the next few months, certainly not if the banks, and of course the federal government heading into an election will have its say. There may be a new reluctance to issue credit cards, but the home market looks safe

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


Ben , here is something from the Fraser Institute back in 2012

“In its February pre-election budget, Alberta relied on unrealistic economic assumptions, ignoring private sector forecasts that were more realistic than its own. It appears to have been overly optimistic about oil and gas forecasts, among others. As a consequence, Alberta’s provincial government is unlikely to hit its deficit forecast this year of $886 million—it will be higher—and the already substantial decline in Alberta’s net financial assets will continue unabated.”

Alberta has not balanced a budget now in 5 years.In 2013 the Fraser Institute issued another warning

“Chronic deficits have helped slash the value of Alberta’s net financial assets by 65 per cent – about $22.4 billion – in six years, according to a new study published today by The Fraser Institute”

The Oil Sands and Alberta are in a serious predicament. Harper has pushed development far above what Peter Lougheed deemed advisable, and has staked it all on the Keystone Pipeline. Lougheed opposed Keystone based on economic principles, wanting the oil to be refined in Alberta. And even if Keystone does eventually get built, due to the glut of oil in the USA, there will be little money to be made.

What is left of Forestry is looking better and better.

Oil’s back up to 103.9 a liter. Where is this drop in revenue coming from?

I find it hilarious when whine and cheese socialists quote the Fraser Institute.
It is not lost on me either that these same dippers who are jumping up and down all giddy about the notion of Alberta carrying deficit budgets,(as if it is something bad and to be ridiculed), happily sing the merits of deficit budgeting within BC, if the NDP ever got voted in.

Good call JH!

No one is using the “R” word in canada because the “D”word is more apropreate . Welcome to deflation . #PrenticeBlamesAlbertans

I didn’t know Harper was in the Oil Development Business. Hmmmm. My understanding was the oil companies made the decisions as to when, and how to exploit oil, but according to the Herbster here we have Harper **pushing** development.

I agree with Jimmie Hughes.

I guess you also didn’t know that harper is in the Natgas development business as well .he just days ago gave the gas sector huge tax breaks for twenty five years . What an idiot . It’s about the economy stupid ( mailroom boy) . We subsidise oil to the tune of 34 billion $ per year . Maybe like prentice in alberta ,harper will blame us all for his mismanagement of our economy .

Nothing makes me happier than a poorly educated misfit spewing broken and misunderstood party talking points.

Jimmy Hughes

All you Conservatives are just whistling past the graveyard. If Alberta hasn’t balanced a budget in 5 years, when oil was up over $100/barrel, what hope is there for Harpers dream of a “Canadian Energy Superpower”? The fossil fuel dream of importance is gone, leaving only ash in the mouths of its supporters.

Harper is in the business of exporting oil to Texas and China. He has staked all his political prestige on Northern Gateway and Keystone. He has failed miserably. The one pipeline that would have helped Canada and could have been built was The Energy East pipeline. He was not interested in getting that done. Ask yourself why.

Considering that the oil and gas sector is a Provincial responsibility, not sure where Harper gets all the money from to subsidize the oil and gas industry.

Seems to me those who make these inane statements are the same people that assume that the Federal Government has jurisdiction over forestry, which of course is a Provincial jurisdiction,.

Read up on the responsibilities of the Federal Government, Provincial Government, and Municipalities, so that you have a clearer understanding about who’s who in Canada.

Jimmy Hughes

So if a Conservative government runs a deficit, things are alright. If a NDP government runs a deficit then things are dire? You must be ecstatic about Harpers string of seven consecutive deficits then!


You can read about Canadian subsidies to the oil and gas sector here



You can read about the responsibilities of the different levels of Government here.

Federal Government. Defence, Criminal Law, Employment Insurance, Postal Service, Census, Copyrights, Trade Relations, External Relations, Money and Banking, Transportation, Citizenship and Indian Affairs.

Provincal Responsibility. Property and Civil Rights, Administration of Justice, Natural Resources and Enviroment, Education, Health and Welfare.

There are many many business’s in Canada that are subsidized one way or another. So what?

So I guess the Federal Government was infringing on Provincial responsibilities when it paid over $9 million for advertising for Northern Gateway?


Only a Conservative would say ‘so what’ to $34 billion in subsidies to business. But God forbid a $15 minimum wage.

Herbster. There is no $34 Billion subsidy to the oil industry. This figure is a result of a news story in the Tyee. (Left leaning Newspaper)

Here is a partial statement from another article in the same magazine in response to the Tyee’s claim.

**The vast bulk of the Tyee’s ludicrous figure ($34 Billion) falls under the rubic of negative “externalities”. That is, societal costs presumably caused by a particular activity**

In other words fossil fuels are not sufficiently taxed to make up for externalities like air pollution, carbon emissions, and even traffic congestion, and traffic accidents.

So, lets not mislead the public into believing that the oil industry actually receives $34 Billion per year. The actual subsidies are approx. $2 Billion per year.

Should we tax oil more to take care of the externalities?? If we do, then we can expect a huge rise in the price of gas, and taxes.

The Tyee merely reported findings from the study published by the IMF, which is hardly a left leaning organization. And while externalities are an interesting topic all by themselves, are you really ok with $2 billion in subsidies each year? We are told by Harper that oil is going to make us rich. Yet Alberta can’t balance a budget, they have depleted their rainy day funds, and we are subsidizing the oil and gas industry! What is wrong with this picture!

Herbster. Oil has already made us rich. Where have you been for the past 50 years??? Perhaps you mean the oil sands will make us richer??

Have you not heard the Alberta Heritage Fund??? Presently collects interest of over $1 Billion per year. Has $17 Billion in reserves, and funds all kinds of projects in Alberta.

Alberta can and will balance its budget, so don’t lose any sleep over that one. Perhaps they will have to increase taxes somewhat, but that’s not really a big deal.

Alberta has not added oil revenue to the Heritage fund since 1987. Look it up.

Reports by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives and the Fraser Institute[15]:9 concluded that Alberta should be saving more of its non-renewable resource revenues (NRR). Since 1980 the NRR in Alberta, has generated almost $190 billion, but the value of the Heritage Fund was only $17.3 billion in 2014. After 1987 NRR was no longer added to the Heritage Fund.[6] The Fraser Institute report compared the Alberta Heritage Fund to Norway and Alaska’s NRR funds and argued that Alberta’s was signficantly “smaller than others because of its relative under-funding and chronic withdrawals of most income from the fund.”[15]:9 Alaska for example continued to deposit 25 percent of its NRR from 1982- 2011 and Norway contributed 100 percent. If Alberta had followed the Alaskan formula, by 2011 the Heritage Fund would have had $42.4 billion instead of $9.1 billion. By the Norway rules Alberta would have had $121.9 billion by 2011

In neocon fashion prentice is planning to use this down turn to impliment a ten year austerity plan . #prenticeblamesalbetans how far behind is CC . The idiots have run the bus off the road and now want us to pull it out . And closet boy in ottawa is too scared to table a budget . It about our economy stupid! It’s not about oil . Our condo market is bigger than is the oil industry .

Don’t know why you lefties lose sleep over the actions of the democratically elected Governments of Canada and Alberta. Leave Alberta’s problems to the Albertans, they have an election coming up, and if they are not happy they can elect a left wing Government. (What a shock that would be).

Federally if people are not Happy with Harper. (That has a nice ring) they should vote him out.

I wait with bated breath to hear how the NDP/Liberals will solve all these problems. Hmmmm. Acutally if we go back a few years, we would be able to see that the Liberals actually created a lot of these problems.

Alberta’s problems are all of our problems as Albertans are firstly canadians and all canadians will be on the hook for all of their mistakes . The libs left ,run in closet boy , a balanced budget and a surplus . Now the idiot is going to leave us with deficit and less revenue coming in due to his generosity with our money . If he was running a business like this he wouldn’t have lasted a week . F-35s anyone ?

I am sure there will be no let up in dipper whine production for the foreseeable future. On the federal level Mulcair had better start collecting boxes when he goes to Costco as he will be moving out of Stornoway later this year. Will assume traditional 3rd(or as they say in Quebec turd:) place showing unless they can figure how to perform a Luzerus like miracle on Jack Layton.

The provincial wing is hooped as even a slight move to the center will see two people jump to the Greens for every one the get from the liberals and vis a versa.

Guess the best option is for those who are that dissatisfied to move to the socialist paradises in Scandinavia where they tax the crap out of everything and the government looks after every little whim and fancy from cradle to grave. Even the jails there are more like three star hote



Yes , the thought of rehabilition of criminal behaver is a foriegn thing for canada . The tax rate in Scandinavia is not much different than it is here . The difference between the two is that they call fees ,taxes . It’s a cute little trick that our govs play to make you think you pay less taxes . This is also a prime example of just how stupid canadians really are . Sucked in by semantics. How dumb is that .

“Acutally if we go back a few years, we would be able to see that the Liberals actually created a lot of these problems.”

Funny how seven years of Liberal budget surpluses and paying down a huge pile of Canada’s federal debt have become unmentionables now! Wait, Happy Harper has undone all the progress that the Liberals made by adding more to the Federal Debt than the Liberals had reduced it by!

Basil Fawlty: Whatever you do – don’t mention those facts! It might unconfuse those with selectively short memories!

Ataloss, how stupid Canadians are?? What makes you think that you are so much smarter than the rest of us???

I’m a Conservative and I actually voted for the Party that won the election, repeatedly! Who did you vote for and how smart does that make you?

Provincially, I voted Liberal! Guess what, once again I voted for the Party that won the election, repeatedly! Who did you vote for and how smart was that decision??

You left wing nuts seem to like to subscribe to the Tyee and the HuffPost and you love to listen to the CBC!! Wow, you’re really getting a lot of valuable information from those sources! Perhaps you might want to expand your knowledge base!

@ herbster, speaking of the CBC, how are you with the CBC receiving substantial subsidies, year after year after year?? At least the oil and gas industry produces a valuable product and a lot of necessary jobs! The CBC, well that’s certainly debatable, now isn’t it!!

HG if you are in the one percent then you definitely are a really smart voter ,voting in your own self interest . If you are not in the one percent then you are what in political terms defines you as a “useful idiot ” . Look it up , it’s a very real term . I’m not left or right , I’m green . Btw both of your heroes have told you guys not to go after the greens . It goes like this steve wants to divide and conquer and so does Chrissy . Justin leaves us alone because an attack on intelegence would make him look like a tory .

Hart Guy

Does voting for Harper make you smart? Is being on the “winning” team that important to you? What happens when Harper bankrupts the country,after first turning it into a police state? Will you still feel like a winner?

How about you actually debate some of the important points that were raised and make up your own mind about what is best for Canada. I know it takes courage to think independently, but make the effort, otherwise all your self esteem will be shattered when Harper gets the boot!

I am happy to pay taxes that support the CBC. It performs a difficult task reporting throughout Canada in a reasonably balanced manner. Thank God Fox North and Ezra Levant are gone! I am not so happy about paying taxes that are funneled into private industry who are supposed to know how to make a profit without sucking on the public teat!

I’m a Conservative and I actually voted for the Party that won the election, repeatedly! Who did you vote for and how smart does that make you?

I woundnt feel proud that I’m a conservative and we won the election. Now tell me what percentage of the electorate turned out to vote this great party into power?

Playing the percentage game is just a line of B.S. If the Liberals won the next election, with the same number of seats and votes that the Conservatives did, then we could say that they did not have majority support because the Conservative and NDP vote was higher. Same thing if the NDP won. The percentage game is played by those who accuse others of being stupid while overlooking the obvious. Perhaps more mirrors would help.

If no one goes after the Greens its because it would be a waste of time. The Greens don’t register on any scale, and basically take up very little space, or time. Professional whiners who if they all jumped in the lake at the same time, would make a very small ripple.

Mr.P I guess you are not a card carrying con or you didn’t get the memo . Are you okay with the fact that Bc is the only province that charges MSP primiums ( taxes/fees) and if you make 30k a year or 3 million a year you pay the same rate . Greens are the only ones that are not happy with that . Greens don’t whine , we roar !


Tax rates in Scandinavia vs Canada

Denmark Sweden Norway Canada

Corporate Rate 24.7% 22% 27% 26%
Personal Rate 55.6% 56.9% 39% 29%
Sales tax 25% 25% 25% 6%

Just in case math is not your strong suit 29 is a lower number than 39 55.6 or 56.9 by quite a bit and a 20% difference in sales tax will add up over the year especially as it is a VAT the includes both goods and services.

Can me on sparrow you and both know those are frankennumbers . Adding up premiums , fees , tariffs and surcharges would paint a very different picture .

The percentage game tells us how many are interested in voting a party into power. But I guess that’s not important when your standing and looking into a mirror and all you see is great person that knows all and I’m sure PC spend a lot of time looking and loose sight of the fact.

6 % sales tax ?

Sparrow..I guarantee you my personal income tax rate is far higher than 29%

Hey Pal are you still driving that broken down Ford product that you had 30 years ago. God it was rusted out then.

Prince George. You are the one with the selective memory. Have you forgotten that the Liberals balanced the budget with the $54 Billion that they stole from the EI Fund. Have you forgotten that the Supreme Court found the Liberal Government guilty of illegally taking these funds.

Without the money from EI Paul Martin and Chretian would not have been able to balance anything.

Stick with the facts.

Tired 02

Elections in Canada are decided by the votes cast and counted. It does not matter one iota if 10% of eligible voters or 100% turn out to mark an x. Why would you think the results would be any different if there was a higher turnout?



Dubious illegality as no funds were required to be paid back, merely retroactive legislation enacted to make it all good.

“OTTAWA – There will be no EI Christmas bonus for Canadians after the Supreme Court of Canada refused Thursday to order the government to return a $57-billion surplus in the employment insurance fund to contributors.

However, the court said in the same decision that the former Liberal government illegally collected premiums for three years because it let the federal cabinet set the annual rate rather than Parliament.

In the 7-0 ruling, the judges gave the government one year to fix its unconstitutional error of “taxation without representation” in 2002, 2003, and 2005.

“According to that principle, a tax can be imposed only by Parliament or a clearly authorized delegate of Parliament,” wrote Justice Louis LeBel.

The court did not suggest ways to make amends, nor did it order that any of the approximately $53 billion in illegal collections be repaid.

One option, said legal analysts, would be for Parliament to pass retroactive legislation approving cabinet setting the premium criteria in the years in question.”

Furthermore the Conservatives were no better.

“The last federal budget, delivered in February 2008, announced the establishment of a new Crown corporation to administer the employment insurance system. It will restrict the use of premiums for employment insurance only and limit them to the amount needed to cover the cost of benefits, plus a $2-billion cushion. However, there was no move to repay the $54 billion.

The Canadian Institute of Actuaries called on the Harper government Thursday to make good on the budget announcement. But president Michael Hale said that the government needs to keep a contingency reserve of $10-$15 billion.

“In the midst of a recession, the institute believes that the federal government should improve the rules adopted in its 2008 budget, by establishing a system such that EI premium rates will not have to be increased to deal with rising unemployment costs,” he said in a statement.”

The Conservatives passed legislation that stopped the practice of creating a surplus in the EI fund and then using it to offset other Government costs.

My point was (and is) that the Liberals could not have balanced the budget or paid off any debt if they had not pilfered the money from the EI Fund. This money belonged to taxpayers, and business, not the Government. The supreme court found them GUILTY.

Need I say more.?


Concept of average tax rate foreign to you? Some pay 0% some pay 20% some pay 40%


“Can me on sparrow you and both know those are frankennumbers” Huh? try again in English.

I provided numbers from a credible source that showed they have much higher marginal tax rates.Can you do the same that fees etc lower disposable income in Canada to what they have in Scandinavia? Actual numbers not just something you once heard from a guy.

6% was a typo all sales taxes quoted were federal and ours is 5%

Retired 02. I now am the proud owner of 4 Vehicles, all rusted to some degree. 1986 Ford F-150, 1988 Buick Park Avenue, 1992 Cougar, 1995 Cougar, all low mileage. Don’t plan on buying any of the new (plastic) cars.

Come on sparrow you and I both know ….. You can’t get credible numbers for canada . We don’t even have a proper census any more . It’s not just the population being dumbed down .

And chairs to you too.

Sparrow–Your credible source claims they pay a combined income\sales tax of 80.6%
in Denmark? And that is an average correct….baloney. At least be truthful with your posts eh.

“”The state income tax has two income brackets (base and top). In 2014 income from DKK 42,900 to DKK 421,000 is taxed at 5.83% and income above DKK 422,000 is taxed an additional 15%. Other taxes include Municipal income tax, currently in the range 23% – 28%, though on average 24.09%. A Health contribution of 8% apply on all income above the tax free allowance in year 2014, though from there the health contribution is getting merged with the regular income tax by one percent per year. Under the Danish tax system, it is possible for a high-wage earner to pay up to 51.5% of their total income after gross tax, giving a total of 57% of total income.””

Palopu thanks . I laughed so hard I almost peed . You .01%ers really know how to live it up .


Well of course I compared what I pay here to what I would pay there and I much prefer what is left in my pocket on this side of the pond (Swedish eye candy not factored into the equation)

Pal will you take me for a spin next time I’m in Prince George. I need need a truck to go fishing. you can give me all your views on the PC. MIGHT even join them and lay off herbster he/she really a nice person.

Ataloss, you call all of us Conservative supporters stupid and you call us idiots, and then in your last post, you comment:

“You .01%ers really know how to live it up”.

Did you really mean “You .01%ers, or perhaps did you mean “You 1.0%ers”??

Bet you’re sorry for calling us stupid, eh??

No he meant that you were so special that you were 1 in 10,000! Lol!

“”OTTAWA – There will be no EI Christmas bonus for Canadians after the Supreme Court of Canada refused Thursday to order the government to return a $57-billion surplus in the employment insurance fund to contributors.”

If all the moneys that have been paid since the sixties into the Canada Pension fund had not been “pilfered” by all the successive governments and used elsewhere the Canada Pension Fund would be very rich today! Instead it is an in-out fund with a relatively small kitty. The contributions come in and the pensions are paid! That is all! They did the same with the EI funds, that is why the premiums are being increased when the kitty shrinks too much. Governments “pilfer” from profits that are made by government owned corporations, all the time and in every province.

Remember how Brian said that the GST would be a) a way to eliminate deficits and the debt b) that it was revenue neutral (!!!) and c] that is was neither one of the above but just an added consumer tax to make corporations more profitable!

And guess who mentored Harper.

That’s my whole point pg . Like Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different out come . So why are canadians voting in cons and libs over and over again ? Because canadians are so ……&@%#€^’ that they will vote against their own self interests .

Tom Flanagan was harpers mentor ,professor in the blue school and political advisor . He’s an expat american .

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