Wilson Square Vendors Want To Stay Put
Maria Pennock at monthly winter market at St. Michael’s Anglican Church. Photo 250 News
Prince George, B.C. – In post-Games Prince George it seems virtually everyone is agreed that there is a desire to continue on with the community gatherings which developed during the cultural events held in the downtown area.
However, with the outdoor market season’s May 2nd opening just around the corner, City Hall and the Wilson Square Community Market Association are at odds over the City’s insistence that the Wilson Square vendors move from their historical location outside the courthouse over to the Veteran’s Plaza. Association President Maria Pennock says “when we went to the meeting with the City on February 13th, the plan in place was Wilson Square would stay at 3rd Avenue, Farmer’s Market would stay at 6th and Immigrant and Multicultural Services Society would be at City Hall.”
“When we had our second meeting on March 6th, it was a 180 degree change. We didn’t know what was coming, we went into the meeting and thought it was to finalize it, to have a discussion with the Farmer’s Market, IMSS was going to be there, we were going to start co-ordinating how this was all going to work. We walked into the meeting to find that they now wanted Famer’s Market to stay on 6th, Wilson Square now to move to Veteran’s Square and there would be a sort of neutral territory in between and that was the only option that was put on the table.”
Pennock says “we were really blindsided and had no idea what was going to hit us. We had Heather Andreychuk walk around Veteran’s Square with me and a couple of the executive to see exactly where they wanted to put us and on the Sunday we had our full market come and look at it and it was a hundred precent unanimous at not going there.”
“As things stand we’re actually not given a choice. We’ve been told by the City that Wilson Square has to move off of 3rd Avenue to the Veteran’s Square and that they will be closing down 3rd Avenue completely this year, that nobody will be there. We would like to stay at Wilson Square. That’s where our home is, it’s been a market for 18 years, the idea of shutting it down is just scary actually. I mean it’s as much an icon in Prince George as the courthouse, we’ve been there as long as the courthouse has.”
Pennock says she met with the City this week but the outcome of that meeting was “they want to come and speak to the Wilson Square Market to convince them to move over there but there is no other plan on the table as to what will work for us, no, so the only plan they have is having us over there.”
Pennock says if the Wilson Square vendors are forced to move, the result will be disastrous to the association. “We will lose half our membership. They’re so passionate about it they will not go over there.”
She says it was her understanding that the desire was to have more people coming to the downtown area and the more venues to visit the better. “For the last two years customers have been going back and forth between the two markets. They walk that 2 ½ blocks between the two and it has not been an issue, not been a problem. And the only thing we’ve been told by the City is that after the Winter Games they felt that if everyone was consolidated in one area it makes for more customers coming down.”
“The Wilson Square theory is that they already are. There is a 2 ½ block walkway but really, don’t we want our citizens also to be healthy? And the amount of traffic that those businesses get is also enhancing Prince George. So George Street stores get the opportunity of having all those people stopping by their businesses. So at the end of the day they will be suffering because of that as well. I don’t understand the thinking behind this.”
“The Wilson Square Community Market is 100 percent onboard with the idea of the city having an open market so there’s spaces in between that anybody can set up in. We are one hundred percent willing to sit on a committee that manages that. But we do not want to move to Veteran’s Square.”
As for future meetings on the matter Pennock says “the only one is that Ian Wells and somebody else would like to come to the Wilson Square Community Market to try to convince us to move over there. And I think that, at this point, that’s kind of a waste of everybody’s time.”
She says the next move is to approach members of City Council and seek support there. “That is our next step, yes, absolutely. Or it could play out in the public, I don’t know. I feel like our hands have been tied. We are going to have to do something because we feel very passionate about 3rd Avenue.”
At it’s peak last year, 23 tables were set up at Wilson Square. Pennock says “it was totally packed, we had people going back and forth (between there and 6th Ave), it was great. We’re just starting a membership drive so I don’t have numbers for you but we’re talking about a lot of people that are going to be impacted by this.”
“And we’re talking about single mothers who subsidize their income by setting up at the market, we’re talking about retirees, people that are new to our area and our country, we’re talking about young students that set up down there to supplement their income to go to school. It’s impacting a lot of people.”
“Our prices are that much cheaper, our table rentals last year were only $10. If they go up it will be only very minimal so it’s pretty much everybody can afford that. I know that the other markets around are charging $20, $25 per table. We like to keep our prices down, we are strictly community-orientated, it’s strictly to cover the cost of setting up. We have no intentions of ever buying a building or having tons of money in our account, we are strictly community-based. And this, I think, is going to be just awful for the city of Prince George.”
Comments
Given how long the market has been in existence it is a far more important entity for the city than the Canada Winter Games were and yet the latter had both the city’s and the public’s unqualified support. The city should be bending over backwards to accommodate the market. Even if two, market locations are not ideal the net result has been a positive and lively energy on George Street which otherwise would not exist. I think that the public should be involved in this and I have no doubt that the overwhelming response would be to keep the Wilson Square market where it belongs, at the Courthouse, and to support those vendors in any way we, as a city, can.
Oh my don’t move anything!! Nothing wrong with where the vendors are at. Such a petty thing for the city to do.
It is city property,
and they should have some say on what happens on it…
an alternate location has been offered and I don’t see city charging a fee so I fail to see the issue…
MOVE
Very bad idea. Dog’s aren’t allowed at Veteran’s Plaza, so I imagine a lot fewer people will be coming down. That was part of the fun at Wilson Square.
What a bully you must be bcracer.
At the very least the City Administration should explain why they want to locate the Wilson Square Market at Veterans Square.
The fact of the matter is, it is none of their business who locates where. As outlined by pookerjams this is a petty thing for the City to do. The City can issue them the licenses for both locations and back off.
Having a split market is no big deal, and people walk between both areas which is good for business’s located in between.
Once again it seems we have Administration working behind the scenes, to get things in place for their **master plan** whatever the hell that is.
At what point will the City decide that the indoor Farmers Market on 6th should be closed down,. As far as I know they only have a contract to be there for the next four years. If they have to move where do they go??
What is the land across from the Farmers Market going to be used for. This is the old Ed Delorme, and Norgate Land. Seems this land has always been the **ideal** location for the Performing Arts Centre.
Is the City moving ahead with a Performing Arts Centre, without having discussions with the citizens at large. There is no need for a discussion with the PAC Society, as we all know their position.
We cannot have anymore huge expenditures in this town without approval from the taxpayers at large. Any movement on the PAC has to have support of the majority of taxpayers.
All those millions of dollars taxpayers are paying in the extra levy that have to go to projects… city is probably thinking PAC, no need for a AAP or anything people can rally against like the dike project, just build it with the extra levy moneys from the CWG and you don’t even have to go to council to beg for it
BC Racer.
Why do they need an alternate location?? They have been at Wilson Square for 18 years. No need to move. The City should just issue the license and back off the issue. Either that, or give an explanation as to why they think it is necessary to move these people.
City hall/ veterans square has ruined lawns due to market traffic ,especially in wet conditions.
i would like to see addresses for these places – not everyone in town knows where “wilson’s square” or “veteran’s plaza” are. this happens often in the news stories.
If the City has a good reason for the proposed move, they should come out with it, and they should do it with plenty of lead time.
I believe Wilson square is the 3rd and George street location outside the new courthouse and Vetrans Plaza is the front lawn of City Hall, where the cenotaph is located.
There are a lot of places in this town to set something like this up. Maybe if the City wants to be particular about where you do this, perhaps you should move it right out of the downtown core and off “City” land. I can think of a half dozen locations they could go right now. There is nothing but space in this town. Get a little bit creative Wilson square people, and to hell with the City.
The good thing about Wilsons Square is that it has a wide space between the Courthouse and 3rd Avenue, especially when they close the street from George St., to Queensway. Has benches for people to sit. Has the steps to the Courthouse for vendors, and performers. Is adjacent to a restaurant, and other business’s that get the benefit of having people in that area.
All in all it is a perfect place for an outside Farmers Market.
There is no need to change this location.
BC Racer says
It is city property,
and they should have some say on what happens on it…
———————————————————————————
And the vendors are citizens and ultimately the citizens should have their say .. City Hall does not own the property but operates it in trust for the citizens ..
City Hall need to come clean on the agenda and reasons .. transparency in City Hall .. wasn’t that one of the major election issues / promises
That is right, Palopu, and everyone who goes there would agree. The Wilson Square market is of extraordinary benefit to this city and this city needs to accommodate them, within reason, in any way they can.
I am fed up with market politics! It is like the Hatfields and McCoys! My family would prefer one market at one location and many people that we see every Saturday are saying the same thing. Three cheers for city administration for making a good decision.
Oh my here we go again! Clarification is needed once again.
1. The Prince George Market Association (PGFMA) has occupied the Courthouse for the past 18 years not the Wilson Square Community Market under a road closure agreement with the City. The City has no obligation to offer this closure.
2. Maria Pennock was the past president of the PGFMA and founding member of the Wilson Square group while on the Board of the PGFMA. Interesting wouldn’t you say. Incorporation documents can be found with the BC Society ACT.
3. The customers have been going back and forth between the two locations of the PGFMA for over 2 years. Not the PGFMA and Wilson Square.
4. The Wilson Square group occupied the steps of the Courthouse under an agreement with the Province and a business licence from the City last year. The PGFMA was told to vacate this space once they had an agreement.
5. The PGFMA has a direct contribution of over 20000 dollars a year to the City of PG for rent and taxes and is a member of the DBIA.
6. The Wilson Square group is a direct beneficiary of PGFMA advertising and past history of the Market.
7. The Wilson Square group operated outside of its agreement with the Province of BC regarding occupancy of the steps.
The PGFMA is in favor of the City plan for a central Marketplace. There is more to the story than Mr. Hawkins provided. Stay tuned for more news ….
As far as I know the Wilson Square Community Market is a very young association – created less than 2 years ago. It is totally inaccurate to pretend the WSCM has its home at the Wilson Square for more than 18 years.
Not a long time ago, Prince George voted to elected Mayor and Council. These people were given the task to govern and make decisions in the best interest of our community. This is exactly what they are doing right now.
With the Games, we all saw what can be accomplished when we all work together. Creating a “Market Place” inclusive of everyone will bring the community together and recreate this fantastic energy that filled the Civic Plaza during the Games.
I can understand that it is sometimes difficult to change since we all become comfortable in our own old habits. But change is good, change is positive. This is how things evolve. The WSCM exist for 2 years and was created by unsatisfied members of the Prince George Farmers. Like Mayor and Council, a board member of a Society is elected (or acclaimed) to govern and to act in the best interest of the Society they represent. Obviously, the people who incorporated the Wilson Square Community Market were not aware of this rule. Now, the same people are pretending to act in the best interest of the community…
The Prince George Farmers’ Market is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year. For all these years, the Prince George Farmers’ Market has the best interest of our community in mind. Winner of last year “We Heart Local” Best BC Farmers’ Market Award, the PGFMA is bringing the best local food and craft to our community every week, year round. The Prince George Farmers’ Market fully supports the City proposal and is looking forward to the creation of an inclusive “Market Place”.
Bully says lbear ,
what I said is the truth..
it is city property…
they can decide what it is used for…
they did offer a different place to hold their function…
what is the issue other than it isn’t where they are so used to being…
it just seems like a whole lot of huffing and puffing for nothing…
personally I don’t care where they are, if I wish to purchase their goods I will go to where they are…if I don’t I won’t
and if they aren’t I will find other places to purchase goods…….
Don’t matter where they go all the amenities that are by the court house can be set up anywhere…
it just seems awful childish,,,,
and yes otherside they operate the site and I think you will probably find they own it as well….otherwise it is the Government of BC that owns it in which case they are the once to complain too.
protest on… good luck
WAY To GO, great decision!!
All markets in one area fairly close together, very customer-friendly.
I am looking forward to visit this events!
Farmers market brings lots of third avenue foot traffic, exactly what we need to revitalize downtown. I say leave it at the courthouse. It has a great vibe there.
Take Action Now:
The markets close together will draw more people to downtown for sure, but the people who come just for the markets don’t have to run back and forth anymore. PGFM did a survey and people clearly stated that they would prefer to have the markets together.
Can you imagine what great vibes there are under the beautiful trees at the City Hall?
Palopu:
There is a lot of space at City Hall as well, enough space for tables and benches as well.
While the Wilson Square Market may be a splinter group many of their members go way back with the PGFMA and so it is perfectly acceptable to say that they have been at the Courthouse for 18 years. If those people want to stay at the Courthouse we should let them. One market would be better for the good energy its size would create but it is not terribly inconvenient to have two locations to visit. Besides, if convenience were a market goer’s prime concern they would do all their shopping at the grocery store.
This is totally childish. Come on now Wilson Square people. You are offered one of the prime locations in town. You are offered to collaborate with the most awesome business in town. What are you complaining about?? I am shopping at the Farmers Market every Saturday. I bring my dog… yes they are dog friendly. I love having my first coffee at the Market on Saturdays. The Farmers Market has become my weekly social time. This is where I meet some friends, talk with farmers, get information from bakers and get amazed by crafters. I also very much enjoyed the Fairs at City Hall, again my dog was welcome and honestly, he did met lots of friends there – just as I did. There is so many cultures in our community, we need to learn about them, need to know them better and that is exactly what these guys at City Hall are doing ; opening our eyes and heart to others. These events are good for the moral, good for the community. Wilson Square people, you should consider yourself lucky to have the opportunity to be part of that. Stop winning and to something real for once; move and shut up.
I am a customer and I love the Prince George Farmers’ Market. I don’t care about the Wilson Square Market, I find everything I need at the FM and more. I heard the story about the split. I heard it over and over again from the Wilson Square vendors. I was told how bad they were. I was told they destroyed the market. I was told they were doing illegal stuff at City Hall and so on. Really??? I talked to the vendors at the Prince George Farmers’ Market as well and sure enough the story was not at all the same. This time though they showed me some papers; business papers, emails, Facebook posts… I really feel for them. They were stab in the back so many times in the last years. Why?? I don’t know, I don’t get it and they don’t either. Why leaving Wilson Square is so dramatically painful?? I wish I could have a clear answer. I sure hope the City will go forward with this project and will put a stop to this non sense once and for all.
That is an interesting topic. I am from CH and I am coming downtown once a week on Saturdays. I visited both markets; the Wilson Square at the court house and the market behind the Keg. I was welcomed at both places. I enjoyed both places. There are vendors that I love in both locations. However, no one will sell me the walk between the two markets. There is hardly anything on George between 3rd avenue and city hall. Honestly, I won’t mind staying away from the drug dealing constantly happening on the corner on 3rd avenue. I would be delighted to see all my favorite vendors in one location. I would love to have my cinnamon bun and listen to some music on the 6th avenue deck. There is kind of a nice vibe and I feel safer there.
I am a customer and I love the Prince George Farmers’ Market. I don’t care about the Wilson Square Market, I find everything I need at the FM and more. I heard the story about the split. I heard it over and over again from the Wilson Square vendors. I was told how bad they were. I was told they destroyed the market. I was told they were doing illegal stuff at City Hall and so on. Really??? I talked to the vendors at the Prince George Farmers’ Market as well and sure enough the story was not at all the same. This time though they showed me some papers; business papers, emails, Facebook posts… I really feel for them. They were stab in the back so many times in the last years. Why?? I don’t know, I don’t get it and they don’t either. Why leaving Wilson Square is so dramatically painful?? I wish I could have a clear answer. I sure hope the City will go forward with this project and will finally put a stop to this non sense once and for all.
It makes no sense having a weekly market on the lawn of city hall. It will end up all mud after one season and then what?
Wilson Square makes sense for its location to amenities as well as its solid ground which is able to handle all the foot traffic.
Lots of other good spots in town if they get the boot from Wilson Square… Maybe the Hart Mall parking lot, or CN Center for a good central location?
PGGoer – you will not be allowed to bring your dog to the Veteran’s Plaza location. And the only coffee shop near there is very expensive. I doubt they will be happy about letting you use the toilet facilities either.
And to BCRACER – it was your all caps MOVE comment that made you look like a bully. My opinion has not been changed by your last comment either.
We should get a petition started – keep the Farmer’s Market at Wison Square!
Man. Talk about a lot of crap,. Firstly why would anyone think that the City was doing any of this for the good of the citizens of Prince George. They are bowing to pressure from the Farmers Market located on 6th Avenue, and in some sort of way having this Market located in one place works for them on some level.
Don’t forget that the Farmers Market on 6th has 4 years left on a 5 year contract. The question is, where will they go then.???? There is some indication that the City would like the Market to be located behind City Hall and the skating rink. They would block off Patricia Blvd for this purpose. The problem with that idea is the fact that the sun does not shine on that area of the City until around noon. Furthermore the snow stays in that area much later than at Wilsons Square.
It matters little whether you call it the Farmers Market, or the Wilson Square Market, they are for all intents and purposes the same group of people (for the most part) that started the Market years ago.
It no skin off the Cities butt if they have one or two Markets, so give both of them the license and get out of the game.
To Lbear – I don’t know what you are talking about. Dogs, coffee, toilets… what else… I brought my dog at ALL fairs at City Hall. There were numerous dogs on site. I never had any problem. The Farmers’ Market has the best coffee in town. It comes with a smile and cost $1.50. What is the problem with you? Stop looking for problems and open your eyes : everything is fine on that side of town.
Palopu, have you ever heard about contract renewal?
Yup …. it is a load of crap Pile of Poo and you seem to want to wade right into the middle.
4 years is a long time especially when there is some stability …. but it is obvious that some groups do not want to work towards the common good of downtown and the citizens of Prince George.
Pressure from the Farmers Market …. hmmm …. that is why they lost there non profit tax exemption, why an employee of City Hall tried to weigh in on issues not concerning them with regard to a Toilet issue ….More Crap.
The City did give Wilson Square group a licence last year …. right in the middle of the Market they were operating last year at the Courthouse.
Were you at the Downtown Fairs last year at City Hall …. not all vendors were on the grass …. but the public sure enjoyed the only green space downtown besides the Community Foundation Park.
You obviously know a lot about the situation … maybe you can help the PGFMA get all there records back from some of this group that was running the PGFMA previously.
Oh … who says that the PGFMA does not want to be at the Courthouse for their 20th anniversary ….. as they have been for all the years previous. Because a group has changed its name does this mean they now have traditional territorial rights through association with the founding society.
Just one persons opinion …. and one location is a good choice as the City celebrates its 100 anniversary and the chance to have a mini Summerfest each weekend to celebrate the occasion ….. what are you going to contribute Palopou.
I am a customer and I love the Prince George Farmers’ Market. I don’t care about the Wilson Square Market, I find everything I need at the FM and more. I heard the story about the split. I heard it over and over again from the Wilson Square vendors. I was told how bad they were. I was told they destroyed the market. I was told they were doing illegal stuff at City Hall and so on. Really??? I talked to the vendors at the Prince George Farmers’ Market as well and sure enough the story was not at all the same and this time, they had proof of what they were saying. I can see they were stab in the back and not only once. Why?? I don’t know, I don’t get it and they don’t either. Why leaving Wilson Square is so dramatically painful?? I wish I could have a clear answer. I sure hope the City will go forward with this project and will finally put a stop to this non sense once and for all.
To the most vocal on this issue …..I will approach the Farmers Market on Sixth and see if they would be interested in setting up a debate table on the Stage in the Corral. This will be the start of the PG Speakers corner ……. then all can come out from behind their hidden identities and speak to the matter in a public forum.
You can try the coffee …. take a stroll around the City Hall grounds and get your exercise ….. help with the conceptual development of the now empty space which was once Norgate …. take a walk with me to the Courthouse to explain the boundaries between provincial and City property …. it is available online if you chose to look .
In the meantime …. enjoy the rest of the weekend.
That is an interesting topic. I am from CH and I am coming downtown once a week on Saturdays. I visited both markets; the Wilson Square at the court house and the market behind the Keg. I was welcomed at both places. I enjoyed both places. There are vendors that I love in both locations. However, no one will sell me the walk between the two markets. There is hardly anything on George between 3rd avenue and city hall. Honestly, I won’t mind staying away from the drug dealing constantly happening on the corner 3rd/George. I would be delighted to see all my favorite vendors in one location. I would love to have my cinnamon bun and listen to some music on the 6th avenue deck. There is kind of a nice vibe and I feel safer there.
Love the “Speakers Corner” idea. Civilized debates are always constructive. Let’s do it. PGFMA pick a date. I am in. Who knows, we may come up with a brilliant solution that would satisfy everyone.
Unless the City will come clean as to when, and where they plan on building the Performing Arts Centre, any debate as to where the Farmers Market is located is moot.
Keep in mind a few years ago the Farmers Market were turned down for a long term contract on 6th Avenue, and then a year later, when is was determined that the much vaunted PAC would not be built for a while the City offered them a 5 year contract.
So, lets get all the facts on the table. In the meantime what difference does it make if you have one or two markets. ???? It makes no difference at all, and if the City gives both groups a license, then that’s the end of the issue.
Furthermore the building that houses the Market on 6th Avenue is less than stellar. In fact it is a terrible place and very crowded. Surely Prince George can do better.
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