I will be so disappointed if our park is renamed. Its absolutly ridiculous.
Yes, make a bigger plaque at the gravesite. In fact… Make the gravesite nice and clean and well looked after. For years its looked horrible with old plaques and spalling concrete. This is something that should be done and maintained long long before a name change!!
Why not name aboriginal day after the tribe? Not the park.
They would like to announce the change if passed on that day so change the name of the day then.
Ive lived at the park for many years and am a little disappointed on the upkeep and development of the park for years.
You want to make a statement? Make it nice and especially in and around the gravesite. Dont cover that up by changing the name!
Anyways, everybody has history, and if you think a name change will stop from calling it fort george park, i highly doubt it, so clean it up, make it nice. Thats a bigger compliment then changing a name to something that people wont even call it by.
Council…. Vote no. Its absurd.

Any city council that votes yes to this will be loosing two votes next election, and I hope the rest of the voters follow. A waste of tax payer dollars, and just to let you know my wife is native.

Why would the first nations want a park named after them when unfortunately it has been a hub of criminal activity, countless assaults, drug activity and homeless people.

The subject of the name change will be **up for discussion**at to-nights Council meeting. I hope this means that they will only discuss the change and not actually make a change at this point. If Councilor Krause or any other Councilor makes a motion to change the name at to-nights meeting, hopefully they will not get a seconder, if they get a seconder, then hopefully the motion will not pass.

The problem with the name change is that while it recognizes the Lheidle T’enneh history in this area, it also deletes the history of the Hudson Bay Co. and Fort George Park in this area, so this is not necessarily a good thing.

I think that in this case a compromise is needed. The parks name should be changed to Lheidle T’enneh/Fort George Park. This recognizes both groups in the area and should satisfy both groups.

Perhaps a motion to this effect could be made and voted on. Otherwise we need more discussion on this issue.

I would hope that tonight’s motion before City Council to re-name Fort George Park gets turned down. A compromise would be to make another motion to donate monies to the Lheidli T’enneh Native Band to enhance, improve, and or even to enlarge the current Lheidli T’enneh Bureial Burial Grounds. They could re-name this burial grounds the “Lheidli T’enneh Memorial Park”. What would be wrong with having a park within a park to recognize and show respect to the past injustices without having to rename the City of Prince George’s historical Park?

Shows you how busy Murray and the crew are, when this is a priority at city council…

I’m with all earlier comments on this one, totally ridiculous! My adult children have grown up knowing this park as Fort George & have mentioned over the yrs the lack of care of the burial grounds. If Councilor Krause wants to spend some $$ then improve the grounds & make “all” people proud to walk through this park.

Read the history on Stanley Park. No need to erase part of Prince George history.

Fort George Park is to PG what Stanley Park is to Vancouver. It has historic, cultural and civic significance to everyone in the community. Changing it’s name requires input from the community and that will undoubtably create devision and acrimony.

Why Memorial Park? Whom are we Memorializing? LTN is an active and thriving community and very much a going concern?

I agree the City could do more recognize the historic significance and contribution of the the LTN First Nation, but alinanating the rest of the community is not the way to do it and is a bad idea.

Did the LT Nation ask for this or is this simply another one of Mr. Krause’s odd notions? How high is this on a list of urgent priorities?

“Lheidli T’enneh/Fort George Park” should make everybody happy, except perhaps Mr. Krause. Can we do that and move on with dealing with the real issues confronting this city, like failing infrastructure, broken curbs and side walks, unsightly garbage laden properties and so forth?

Change the name and then the park will become run down like a first Nations reserve.

DPJ, have you visited any of the Lheidli T’enneh reserves? If you go out to the band office or to North Shelly I think you will find that they are not at all run down.

@DPJ

Thats factually incorrect. Ever been to the reserve in Kamloops? obviously not.

This will pass, and it will take 5 minutes, or at least it should. The fact that the only “decent” rebuttal is that “it is a waste of money” is a joke. It’ll cost what? $200 bucks to make some new signs?

I don’t consider the fact that they are destroying “Prince George’s history” a decent point, you know why? Cause there are a million other things in this town that remind us every day of the Genocide that happened to the First Nations.

Seriously people, this is not a fight you want to win.

What would be the cost of a name change? Murray what’s next?

I thought the idea for the day is to address Reconciliation.
What this renaming will do is to drive a wedge between First Nations and the rest of the population. Nothing good will come from this name change – if approved. Yes, make cemetery improvements as stated by many.
Fort George is very much part of our history – the transition to a much more resourceful world.

Cultural genocide is not genocide, no-matter how hard the media wants to pretend it is.

oh this is just ridiculous..why have comments if it to simply promote one point of view? We get it, this site has taken a major leftward slant, but this getting ridiculous. Must be a real bummer deleting a majority of the comments that oppose this name change, to arrive at a cleansed version. What’s next a self congratulating editorial heralding the progressive nature of the two commenters you favour?

nuffsnuff1 – good point. Whether it’s justified or not, non – FN – a term I find racist, are resentful of the perceived privilege FN people have, and this renaming will only fan those flames. If there wasn’t anything in a name, then this topic wouldn’t get the traction it does. Non FN see the courts handing over control of the country’s resources to FN, and now politicians want to rename historic land sites to appease them – making the non FN – who pay the majority of the taxes in this country, an apparent 2nd place citizen – yes, I realize they make their living exploiting the resources “stolen” from FN, but the fact remains, they are here, and if the Non FN component of the country sat down and refused to go to work, everyone starves – can the FN component say the same.

Now, I have considered that Stephen Harper may be one of the most – well – diabolical politicians – I have ever seen.

FN/non – FN relations are headed toward a new low – not a new utopia of reconciliation. The PM has managed to create a huge wedge and I’m not so sure he didn’t intend to lose the cases he lost, and to stir up the muck that’s been stirred up – for just that reason. Once the national resentment reaches a certain point, he’ll be able to do what he wants, and no one non -FN will lift a hand to stop it. I hope I’m being melodramatic but it seems to me Harper likes to win – and the cost isn’t important.

But as for the cost of changing the name issue, the story before this one is about a big party to celebrate UNBC’s 25 years – I dare say the selection of wines, cakes and cheeses will cost significantly more than renaming a park – so the cost – IMHO – is irrelevant.

So they stole their land . Burned down their homes . Then they forcibly moved the people to Shelly , where they now live down wind of the pulp mill . I say give them , The Right of Return . If I were them I would occupy my home land and former village .

Reconciliation is a process. It does not start with changing names. It may end up with changing names if that is considered to be significant to all concerned.

To many people do not know what has happened in the past in the PG region.

We are not unique. Australia, New Zealand, and even parts of the USA are facing the same reconciliation process. Why are we so late, and why are we just proposing to change the name of a park.

As someone has stated, it is an easy thing to do. Reconciliation should not be easy.

Ataloss; I started my life in South Fort George and I can tell you all the First Nations people from that Band did not go to Shelly, we were a community of white people and Native people. We were neighbours and Friends. The one name that I can remember is the Bird family. Trust M.K. to stir up an Ant Nest, we need our money spent on other things like pot holes in this City and I am sure everyone will agree with me.

It will always be Fort George Park to me and that’s what I’ll call it no matter what they may or may not change the name to. As far as I’m concerned “Fort George” is a part of Prince George’s history, equally important. People aren’t going to refer to it as a name they can’t pronounce anyway.

I am all for the name change. It’s important to do this.
Words matter, and over time, many will recognize the importance of the re-naming.

That’s good to hear bitter but I was referring to the people that were forcibly moved to Shelly and who’s home were raised to the ground . Following the money . The grand trunk pacific railway bought the land from someone .who ? Not the tribe , the rightful owners . CNR took over GTPR . Whom ever either deeded , gifted or sold it to the city of pg is where the money is . If you don’t deal with the natives at Shelly equitably , you will find yourselves in the courts . Some how or ever PG has ownership of it as it has morphed into a park on the bones of the rightful owners . If you chose the court route , you will lose and have a great deal less money for your pot holes .

This thread has many excellent examples of the progressive ideals that allowed the residential schools to exist in the first place. There is this sense, by whining progressives, that they know just what the native community wants and needs. You know? What is BEST for them.
I think progressives and the rest of the Liberal Party of Canada and its lemming like supporters, should offer an apology to Canadian First Nations for forcing their (FN) children to attend Residential schools.

The Fort George Park land was sold by the First Nations to land speculators who wanted the railway to locate in that area. If you read the plaque in the present graveyard you will see that it states they were coerced into selling the land by the Catholic Church and the Federal Indian Agent. Regardless, the land was sold. The FN moved to or were moved to Shelley and the buildings were burned down.

There were many First Nations families living and working in South Ft George and may of them attended the so called white schools. They worked for the Department of Highways grading roads, and in the forest industry driving trucks, logging etc; in addition they were in the 2nd World War and fought for this Country even though legally they had no status as Canadian citizens and had to lie about their nationality in order to join the Army.

Most of what people perceive to be the history of this area should be filled under the heading of horse s..t.

As an example. The Lheidle T’enneh are part of the Carrier tribe, and as such they did not bury their dead, they burned them on funeral pyres, and the widows of the male dead packed their charred remains with them. Hence the name **Carrier**.

The actual burying of bodies, and putting up headstones etc; is a Christian Tradition that the Native picked up after the arrival of the white man. So in essence we could say that the traditional burial grounds of the Lheidle T’enneh at Fort George probably started around 1805.

So the history of their burial grounds and the arrival of the white man are entwined and thus it would make sense to have both stories represented in the park name. Ie; Lheidle T’enneh/Fort George Park.

Any city councillor who fails to support this motion will be loosing many votes in the next municipal election.

OF all the issues we have before us a city Krause decides this needs to be done. How about do your job and get the citys ducks in a row before doing frivolous wastes of time and money on things like this..

Our taxes are outrageous.. our roads are horrible.. our snow removal is lousy.. our city hall is over staffed and will be more so once they absorb a bunch from the closing of IPG..hiring that guy from the university is out to lunch.. our air quality is health concerning…

so what wagon does Krause hitch up to.. renaming a park.. what a stupid idea… I really hope the voters remember this and turf him next election.

How much would this cost us… every brochure.. map.. etc will have to reprinted.. change all signs showing people how to get there etc.. Murray.. give us the cost of this idea.. dont just do it to make favour with the natives.. be smart for a change and do what the city wants.. stop being so selfish and blind.

Seems to me as a feeble attempt at appeasement . The city must know these chickens are coming home to roost .

The graphics of the new sign will chosen from a select few and of course there will be the mandatory lawsuit after all is said and done. The park will be renamed, but somehow somebody will be offended and it will cost the taxpayers money, and the right to access any of the park. Not to mention the taxpayer will be on the hook for the expensive fence that will be built around the entire property to allow only those of the correct ethnicity to enter. But of course “we” would be allowed to pony up for all the expenses to keep the park looking like it is being cared for. Next.

P Val. The relocating of some of the IPG Function to City Hall will result in a net loss of 4 jobs. This is where the $500,000.00 savings will come from.

I agree with most of your other statements about taxes, roads, snow, etc;, however I believe that we will see significant improvement in most of these areas with the new Council.

The problem where we really need to apply pressure now is taxes. We are over taxed, especially for the benefits we receive, and yes, City Hall is over staffed and in a lot of cases underworked. Will this Council tackle this issue. Who knows, we will have to wait and see.

We cannot keep increasing our taxes to pay for salary and benefit increases to City Management, Staff, and Workers. This is a form of insanity, that grips all Municipalities and it has to end.

No name change. Changing the name of the park does not erase the wrongs done in the past.

I am not opposed to it. However is this the name Murray came up with?

There should be due process to come up with a good name “…. memorial park” is so white man. The Lheidle T’enneh can come up with a name that gives it more historical meaning of place. The location must have significant meaning beyond where they last had a village within the city.

250news should preserve, and achive, these comments and re-publish them 100 years from now, as an example of the intolerance that still exists in Prince George and area 100 years after the Lheidli Thenn’eh were burned out of their village.

It is not a big deal for Clagary to rename a bridge in the wake of the Truth and Reconciliation Report, but renaming one of Prince George’s parks, in commemoration of a 100 year city anniversary, seems to be the end of the world for some.

http: //metronews.ca/voices/urban-compass-calgary/1390099/calgary-to-rename-bridge-in-wake-of-truth-and-reconciliation-report/

copy and paste to your address bar, then delete the space between the http: and the /

More like an example of the pathetic grammar from those who are more at ease cutting pasting talking points. “Gee Grandpa, were all progressives poorly educated?”

Derelict properties within the bowl. The City wants to approach this subject as well.
Sorry to shift the subject, but the renaming of a park is not that important. How is a name change going to fix history? All this subject has accomplished is to show how narrow minded some are.
So, derelict properties…City wants them cleaned up? For what reason? So that we may display more vacant tracts of bare land (old Norgate, old Delorme’s shop, old gas stations and countless other bate patches of dirt) to advertise that nobody wants to invest in our downtown?
Wanna make a difference in our community… force owners of abandoned buildings (City is guilty as well: old rcmp, old 4th ave yard) to either do something with them or else they forfeit to charitable user groups for homeless shelters/low income housing. Do this before the current squatters burn more of them down. 3, no..4 fires that I know of downtown in the past 3 mos alone.
I think this issue deserves more attention than the idea that renaming a park might do something to change FN/ non FN relations…
Racism (as proven in prior posts on this site) is alive and well… a name change will never be the swaying factor in this unfortunately. And it goes both ways, cant cal an indian an indian anymore.. but White man will always be Whitey, no matter what ethnicity they are…IMO

Palopu, great post at 10:52. Again, just because a person does not accept or agree with a view point or decision that goes contrary to the Orwellian bleat of “White bad, anything non-white good” does not make them racist or intolerant. To change the name of anything that has history to satiate a real or imagined sense of guilt needs a sober second look.

There are many examples around town of yards littered with old vehicles. Phoned in to Bylaws (everything is complaint driven pitting neighbor against neighbor) and NOTHING has been done. If there is a fire, good luck trying to access the house with 5 derelict vehicles parked in the yard. Not to mention the fire/explosion hazard those vehicles pose to the firefighters and surrounding homes. We have 5 or 6 bylaw officers – one could be kept busy driving around and ticketing offenders and ensuring that they clean up their properties.

I’m a little surprised by the anger people have, associated with the potential name change of Fort George Park.
Perhaps if you “NOs” read a little information, or understood the history of the park, you may see things differently.
I think the name change is a fine idea.

sunshine north read Palpu’s history of the park.

“The subject of the name change will be **up for discussion**at to-nights Council meeting. I hope this means that they will only discuss the change and not actually make a change at this point. If Councilor Krause or any other Councilor makes a motion to change the name at to-nights meeting, hopefully they will not get a seconder, if they get a seconder, then hopefully the motion will not pass.

The problem with the name change is that while it recognizes the Lheidle T’enneh history in this area, it also deletes the history of the Hudson Bay Co. and Fort George Park in this area, so this is not necessarily a good thing.

I think that in this case a compromise is needed. The parks name should be changed to Lheidle T’enneh/Fort George Park. This recognizes both groups in the area and should satisfy both groups.

Perhaps a motion to this effect could be made and voted on. Otherwise we need more discussion on this issue”

========================

Personally, I think Palopu’s suggestion is reasonable.

I don’t even live in PG anymore, but I have many memories around Fort George Park. I would also not be adverse to a name change if I lived there, but I would like for it to be given some thought and not just thrown out there as a “surprise” motion like this seems to have been.

I actually think there should be a more prominent recognition of the Lheidli T’enneh and their history in the park and around PG. I’d just like to see it done in a way that the whole community and get behind and support.

There will always be bigots out there who will resist anything like this (I think some of those types of views have been noticeable in threads on this issue), but I also think there are others out there who are being unfairly painted as being a bigot or racist, simply because they don’t agree with the proposal to rename the park.

Hopefully people can be mature enough to recognize that there are compelling points to be heard on all sides of this discussion. There is no harm in taking the time to do it right. IMHO, that’s actually the most respectful thing that could be done.

Palopu don’t forget they just hired the guy from UNBC. So the $500,000 they are saving just dropped to $350,000.

Good idea or not I’m tired of Murray. There need to be municipal term limits.

P Val 150k is just pay for Rob take another 50k off for bennifits, pension, travel, etc.

I get confused by the way things are done here. Coming from a real city, it’s still a bit of a shock. Racism is the order of the day in PG.

Perhaps we could change Councillor Murry Krause’s name to a first nations one that means “see in all directions”. Does anyone know how to translate that? Would Murry find that acceptable?

Good points NMG. I to see the name calling and labelling just because some initially disagree but still want to talk about the issue.

Some on both sides of this debate have gone too far. I say there are likely bigots on both side. The definition is “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Palopu if you read the articles in the Fort George Herald there is another take on the land sale, the parish did not want the natives to vote yes, they wanted the eligible voters to hold out for more money. The empty buildings were burnt while they waited for the riverboat to take members to Reserve #3 as well as Reserve #2 – Shelley.

If they didn’t vote yes Prince George would be located in a different area today but Fort George trading post would still have been located in that area as it was there before the GTR

—> detoe44: the other Orwellian bleat of “White good, anything non-white bad” has had an over 500 year run in the western hemisphere; I think it’s time to stop the bleating altogether and treat human beings as human beings. Part of this is the simple recognition of the obvious racism of our ancestors (and yes, it is racist to deny the obvious racism of our ancestors); renaming the park could be a tiny baby step in this recognition process. It isn’t enough, but Canadian society will have to take tiny, almost imperceptible, steps along the road to reconciliation before it can run.

If you acknowledge that there are many of us, who have families that endured far more in the last World War. How do we move on?

I see some are attempting to minimize the forced relocation of the Lheidli T’enneh from their village at Fort George to Shelly. Quite understandable, as it is difficult to face up to the facts and thruth of such a sordid past.

www. princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/city-s-100th-anniversary-built-on-village-s-ashes-1.1785428

Copy and paste the link to your browser address bar, then delete the space between the www. and the p

Peterthompson, nothing I wrote would suggest that I would neither deny or forget the past. The point I made is similar to NMG’s. Racism is a human problem, not just a Caucasian issue. I whole heartedly disagree, I believe that renaming Ft. George Park will do nothing more than create an even larger divide between the 2 (or more) cultures. Like others have posted, perhaps an amalgamation of the names would be more appropriate.

Not my sordid past, Rachel. Probably not even yours?
We have many streets named after prominent council members of the past. Can we look forward to the proposal that would see the renaming of them as well? Or are some things deemed untouchable? Like a progressive icon, no-doubt.

Jimmy Hughes – my father and mother lived in Glasgow and spent their teens in bomb shelters. My father harbored a grudge against Germans for some strange reason. He was never openly hostile to German people, and even gave me a lickin for chalking a Swastika in front of a German family’s house – (I was a young offender at the time – wish they’d called the cops instead – would’ve hurt less).

Anyhow, he took up golf and one of his regular foursome was a German – and the guy kind of picked up that my Dad had an issue with him, and asked him to come out with it, so Dad told him it related to the war. The guy replied – “well, if it helps, I grew up in Dresden and we got bombed pretty regularly too.

That really struck my father, I think for the first time he realized, s**t happens to everyone, on all sides, and the only hope, is to move forward, and they were good friends for years. So, if someone who literally had to grow up underground while buildings were exploding above him, the city was lit up in flames, managed to give up on the past – maybe we all – including FN, can do the same.

BTW – he never has received an official apology from the German government or compensation.

–>detoe44, Of course Racism is a human problem, not just a Caucasian issue; but to try to obscure the fact that the vast overwhelming majority of racism in the past 500+ years in the western hemisphere has been perpetrated by, and continues to be perpetrated by, Caucasians is a pathetic attempt to evade responsibility.
The divide has been created by the Canadian history of racism. To blame, as you do, tiny attempts to redress this divide for creating an even larger divide is nothing more than a weak attempt to obscure the Truth that must precede Reconciliation. That Truth is simply this: Canada’s history is stained by widespread, pervasive, evil, and disgusting racism perpetrated mostly by European immigrants and their descendants. Until you understand this fact and appreciate the damage that it has done and continues to do to Canada, you will be unable to be a part of meaningful reconciliation.

Coming from a real city? You mean pg is a fake one? Really. Wow..I am paying taxes to a fake city.. Thanks for pointing it out sunshine. Where do I get my taxes back from this fake place…lol

“Meaningful reconciliation”? What does that mean? I can’t wait until Quebec separates, then we can tear up the constitution and write something that recognizes the majority in this country.

–> ski51, Actually, the German government did pay compensation, not to your father, but to the Allied governments in the form of war reparations.

It is disingenuous to urge First Nations people “to give up on the past.” As William Faulkner said of the American South “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” I think he meant by this that the past lives on its effect on the present; the material deprivation of many First Nations communities is not accidental nor is it entirely self inflicted as many racists will claim, it is the result of centuries of structural racism in Canadian society.

PS: When the racist apartheid regime in South Africa were searching for a model to enforce general white supremacy after their election victory in 1948, they sent a delegation here to study the Canadian Indian Act (Politikon: South African Journal of Political Studies Volume 34, Issue 1, 2007).

Sophic noone is downplaying anything. The Fort George Herald a few lines after the one quoted in your article by the Citizen also states the reason some buildings were vacant is because some families had already moved as agreed. The Fort George Herald also chronicles the story of the surrender of the area on Nov 18, 1911.

Maybe Sophic thinks they should have gone in guns a blazing

I could be wrong but has the Government not given this Band the old Experimental Farm plus other big chunks of property in the City as Land Claims. I think this band could be Land rich, I wish I could be a member. Renaming the Park will not change anything, how much will it cost?? What is M.K.s real Job??

I don’t know Im reading some pretty bigoted opinions. Humans are the ultimate weeds and regardless of what you believe we all do wrong. Some wrong goes a lot further than others.

The only group I fundementally can say we should be concerned about is sociopaths. Interestingly they cannot be easily identified yet they maybe 2% of our population.

slinky, I think the Prince George Citizen story describes the situation quite accurately; “The (Fort George Herald) article implied it was a smooth and amicable transition to a splendid new village, but history has documented the ousting of the Lheidli T’enneh people as being more thuggish than a mutual agreement.”

www. princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/city-s-100th-anniversary-built-on-village-s-ashes-1.1785428

At least the above Prince George Citizen article quotes more that one source, and uses the recollections of Indian Agent who was involved in that “thuggish” ousting!

@peterthompson; Where in anything I wrote did I blame anyone for anything? I merely made an observation. Perhaps you should take an extra moment to reread what others post in making their points of view instead of riding your high horse to make an argument that was never there & resorting to weak jabs at a persons character. Personally I feel that what was done in the past was a tragedy but in no way do I feel guilt over events that happened long before I was born & quite obviously had no part in. Redressing the past is a double edge sword, & those that wield it would be wise to realize it will cut both ways.

Why change the name? That land was purchased from them in 1911 for $175,000. Just asking.

How long was there a village at the park? Was that a historic native settlement? The houses destroyed where not traditional native homes. Just what is the native history of the park area?

The village was built where it stood in the late 1800’s because the HB trading post (not a fort btw) was located there. The buildings which can be seen in a few old photographs which predated the coming of the railway were log houses, which was a white settlers’ method of building. The pit house that was built at UNBC last year is more indicative of the way the local band built their winter enclosures. It was a housing form which can be seen all along the BC Interior Plateau to at least the Columbia Plateau in the USA.

In 1807, Simon Fraser established the North West Fur Trading Company post at the junction of the Fraser and Nechako. (Incha-Khoh = big river)

Find Joan Holmes.ca and look for the article on Reserve Land Surrenders. The concept of Reserve Land surrenders was introduced in the Parliament of Canada in order to support the government’s policy of settling the West. Along with that came the railway. The Indian Act was changed to allow for the sale of reserves to the government and the effective relocation of the Indigenous people’s settlements found on the reserves to new reserves. While the initial procedure to sell reserve land to the government for an immediate cash payment of 10% that was increased to 50% as an incentive to sell.

When the Government took over the land, they then sold it back to the railway company who were now able to profit from land sales adjacent to their railway. So, the government agent in PG acted as an agent to the Government of Canada.

The priest, Father Nicolas Coccola, was a spokesperson for the band. He pressured the band to vote yes to the sale because he was trying to protect his new-found flock from the sins of alcohol and other vices in the town-to-be. The “good” father was the first principal of the notorious Lejac residential school at Fraser Lake.

So, that takes us around to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. That commission is supposed to discover and reveal past wrongdoings by a government as well as non-state agencies in the hopes of resolving conflicts left over from the past. It is an attempt at finding proof of historic revisionism as well as human rights abuses. We have seen South Africa go through a more famous such process. Australia and New Zealand has also been working on these issues.

I respect Peter Thompson’s as well as most other people’s thinking that renaming the park is the right things to do. I am, however, afraid that Neil Godbout in his Saturday editorial was right on the money when he stated that it is the easy thing to do.

It is blatantly obvious to me after reading what has been written since last Friday on this rebranding suggestion that virtually no one on both the Lheidli T’enneh’s side and the European descendants side of the discussion really know what actually transpired at the time of the land surrender and most certainly we have not reached a joint conclusion after a local truth and reconciliation process as to how we can rectify it at this late date so that we can at least have a record of that for those who follow us in this place on earth rather than having the battle continue.

What that process will bring us as action points, I really do not know. One of them may very well be the renaming of the park, the flying of the Lheidli T’enneh flag at City Hall, the renaming of the Fraser river in this part of the world, The building of a proper anthropological museum, the renaming of the PG Airport perhaps with a much better representation of the indigenous culture in the region as is partially displayed in the international arrivals corridor at the Vancouver airport.
It is up to a local committee to decide, not Council based on a quickly put together recommendation.

The land was not sold for $175,000. The price was $100,000, to be paid in installments. It is unclear whether more than $50,000 was actually paid. The railroad only needed a small portion of the land so the following year it sold off most of it for a total of $1,000,000. The only way in which they had improved that land was surveying it. It’s not like they had put in sewers and gas and electricity and so forth. The land in its original state was therefore worth a good million, not the $100,00 paid for it. Not a very good deal for Lheidli people.

“From the Fort George Herald – November 18, 1911

“The local Indians today surrendered Indian Reserve No.1 here, comprising 1366 acres, to the Crown, for transfer to the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Co. The Consideration is $125,000. Chief Indian Commissioner Ramsden acted in behalf of the Indians and carried the deal through in the manner required by the terms of the Indian Act. Mr. T.W. McRae, claims agent for the G.T.P. railway represented that company and accepted the reservation on behalf of the railroad for the figure agreed upon by Mr. Ramsden and the Indians.

“The Indian Reserve is now the property of the G.T.P.

The terms of the sale were twenty-five thousand in cash which was distributed this afternoon equally per capita. Twenty five thousand dollars will be distributed in a similar manner at the time the Indians abandon the reserve. Twenty thousand dollars is in consideration of the buildings to be abandoned and will be expended in new residences for the red men upon the reservation they choose to live upon in future. The remaining fifty thousand dollars will be funded and interest at 3 1/2 percent will be distributed annually among the band.”

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Apologize for possible “offensive” words. Perhaps we should be putting in today’s more correct words.

Unless the paper got it wrong, that was the agreement made.

In fact, there may still be $50,000 sitting there gathering 3.5% interest every year and paid to the band.

So, we see how such a simple thing can get a bit twisted over time unless one can go back to original documents and follow them through to this day.

The info is on the digitized newspaper site of the local library.

BTW, it took almost two years to build the new houses and church. A fire was set ion part of the old village when some refused to move as agreed to. I think the church was consecrated in 1914 with the very expensive leaded glass windows which now reside in our museum.

Thank you for the comment billposer, I had no idea the GTPR sold the same land they purchased off the Lheidli people for $100,000, for 1 million dollars the following year. A ten fold profit, not bad making all that profit off a semi-nomadic people that had no previous concept of land ownership, let alone land value.

Kind of like taking candy from a baby.

I would like to see a name change to accurately reflect the turmoil in removing Canada’s first citizens off their property. I would like to see a first nations working village (Circa 1911) at the mouth of Hudsons Bay Slough. We have a fort commemorating our early settlers in Ft. St. James, so why don’t National Parks get on board with the bands to create these villages, would be an incredible tourist attraction.
What would us white people have done if we were forced off our land and removed to a particular parcel of land and told we had to stay there?
There was no respect for them as a people then, and as I read some of these posts, we still don’t respect our fellow man.

Grizzly the moving of white men happened all over Europe.. But we moved on..we didn’t keep blaming the ones who moved us over and over again for every bad thing that happens.. We didn’t keep asking for more and more money without being responsible for how it’s spent. We bettered ourselves and let it go. Guess the Romans owe me free schooling, Medicare and dental…lol

Seems there is no respect for Caucasians. Why should we pay to keep their culture alive..it’s up to them. Maybe it’s time for the natives to admit their way of life they keep complaining about losing sucks.. It looks good on paper..but realistically it’s horrible..if it was good they would have already have a vivid culture.

If their way of life was so great then why do they need all the modern stuff to live it. Should have native made canoes, bows and arrows, live in huts..have to move every time they killed everything in the area etc.

“we didn’t keep blaming the ones who moved us over and over again for every bad thing that happens.. We didn’t keep asking for more and more money without being responsible for how it’s spent.”

LOL…. tell that to Greece.

Like I said, lots of bigots still exist.

The last thingThe First Nations want to do is get over what has happened in the past because then they would be cut off from the government which in turn is everyone’s money and actually have to start working. ( God forbid that would happen) So for renaming Fort George Park I think is rediculous and narrow minded but hey if you they want the 2 groupsnto continually hate each other then keep going, it not like things are going to be changing any time soon anyways. Sorry for the rant just fed up with the one sidedness.

Its a done deal, now how much is it going to cost to change everything?? what pot are they going to take the money out of? I can’t believe how fast it went though , with No public input.

Seriously, the only “green” in a park that the FN are interested in is cash. I guarantee there will be some hands held out. I’m waiting for some native guy to approach me one evening while strolling there and yell at me to get off their land.

Provided I don’t get mugged or step on a used syringe. I also think its funny that city council made the unilateral decision to go ahead with a name change despite numerous public wishes against it. There should have been some kind of a plebiscite or something..there was lots of time to hold it.

Don’t blame the First Nations people for the name change of our Park, it was the well paid White Guy that was pushing for it, you could talk to him about if you could get in his gated office.

Hmmm… interesting how everyone here has no problem calling the Nechako River the Nechako River, yet it is a Carrier name. How does Bednesti Lake stick in everyones craw when you say it? Yup another Carrier name that means “overly stuffed Char” you know … the fish?

Endako, how does that roll off everyone’s tongue? I could go on but I think everyone here gets the picture, there are a lot of Carrier place names that we still use today. Don’t get me started on Aboriginal place names being used in BC like “Chilliwack”.

So what is the big deal here? Imagine every single creek, river, lake, island, mountain, etc. in the area having Carrier names, and then put yourself in their moccassins as they watched over the decades almost every single one of their place names being renamed into non-Carrier names.

But wow… but turn a city park name into a Carrier name that honours those people, and everyone has a conniption fit! Time they are a changing, accept it, or stay in the past.