What bothers me is the speed it was done. Why so fast? Has council ever completed anything in 8 days before? Why didn’t they seek voter input?

Because politicians never ask input if they know the answer won’t be what they want to do. This is an article that has nothing to add to the debate but is sure to generate 50 bigoted racist comments and tons of hits. Time to just let this issue quiet down.

My guess is that this was done quickly to limit all the racial and intolerant comments that we’ve see over the last week. Why give them more time to hate! Bravo to our city leaders for approving this. I’m extremely proud of all of them and more so to all the citizens of PG, who perhaps some who didn’t understand in the beginning took the time to learn about the issue. This is was truly a teachable moment for our community. Now to all the racists and bigots with all their nasty over the last week, you can now crawl back into your hole and wait for the next big thing to get your hate on for! This game of whack a racist is now done!

Well said, Veritas. The timing coincided with the Truth and Reconciliation report as well. If there was ever a perfect context for renaming the park, this was it. I applaud Council for acting in this manner. Haters are still gonna hate, but all will be well.

It was also hurried because Murry needed to get it done for Aboriginal Day.

So why did not council change the name of Cottonwood Park? The issue with me is where was the public involvement? The parks belong to the citizens of Prince George, not council members. Get on with managing the city!

Did he not know last year that we had one coming up this year as well? Also, we have had a group working on the 100 year PG anniversary for years. Such recognition should really have come from them. Were there no FN on that committee?

We do have a memorial for the Chinese community at the Memorial Park Cemetery for the hard work they did to help build this region. I hope we will be putting one up for the First Nations descendants buried there thanking them for ceding the land we live on.

The land that Fort George Park is on did not house the Lheidli T’enneh village when Simon Fraser chose that piece of high, flat ground on which to build a trading post

The “Indian village” was built later when the post became an active post after the HBC took it over from the North West Company.

BTW, the article has the wrong date for him building the trading post. It was in 1808. He had intended to travel here from Fort St. James in 1807, but supplies were delayed in getting to him so he could not.

OOOps .. I misread something. He did go from Fort St., James to PG in the fall of 1807.

the name change has ben in the works for last three years so it should come as no surprise when it was announce

There were BOTH Simon Fraser Park and Fort George Park, Fort George Park was not a name change – insinuating that we had name changes to the park in the past is wrong in this case. You can read about both of them even in old Citizen papers from the early 70s. A little research shows you Simon Fraser Park had the stage and graveyard areas while Fort George Park boasted the slough and the parking lot and the recreated fort which burnt down and later the museum which is now Exploration Place. Wouldn’t take an investigative reporter long to get some old maps together of the original park areas. There once was private property in the middle of the park which is probably the reason there were two parks which later became one some time in the 70s.

If we can’t even get recent history from the 70s right how on earth are we to give ancient history from hundreds of years ago a fair shake?

“…the name change has ben in the works for last three years so it should come as no surprise when it was announce”

Then why wasn’t a *non-binding opinion* question (in respect to the planned renaming) added to the ballot of the last municipal election?

Actually I already know the answer.

Fort George was established in 1807 and this is the history that we need to focus on. From 1807 to 1892 we have 85 years of history of both the FN (Carrier) Lheidli T’enneh and whites living an working together.

The Fort George Indian Reserve was established in 1892 and then sold in 1911 and the FN were moved to the reserve in Shelley. There were certainly some shenanigans surrounding the sale of this land, and some intimidation in the burning down of some empty buildings.

Considering that the Carrier traditionally burned their dead in funeral pyres, we can conclude that the burying in the ground must have started sometime after 1807 and continue to this day. This burial ground is the memorial that the Lheidli T’enneh are referring to.

So I believe that the name Lheidli T’enneh/Fort George Park would have been a good compromise and satisfied all concerned.

We are now faced with the history of Fort George being set aside, and we really should really find a way to have this clearly shown within the area.

The majority of the comments against where not bigoted and/or racist. BIll you seem to imply that anyone against the change or critical of how it went down is bigoted/ racist, I think you got it the wrong way around.

This name change was pushed through quickly as an end run around any discussion, natives didn’t even have a say, repeat of history?

Read gopg2015, that person got the history of the area correct.

Keep as eye on this mayor and council, I believe they may have shown their true colours in governance style.

I’m getting sick and tired of feeling guilty for being alive and seeing my culture and traditions constantly under attack by white guilt liberals who always revert to name calling anyone who pushes back.

“Intolerant!” “Bigot!” “Racist!” they shout. I’d like to retire the “R” word ( racist) . Most of these morons don’t use it properly and fling it all about until they get their way.

Look, according to Statscan the aboriginal population of Canada stands, as of 2011, at 4.3 % of our population.

Yet in news headlines you’d get the impression they were at least 1/2 the population.

We get it, horrible things were done to these people by our ancestors. People and populations have been moved, warred on, conquered, obliterated, enslaved, pushed around etc all over the globe for thousands of years.

Today’s world maps showing countries and borders? I don’t even buy an atlas anymore, because it’s gonna change. Crimea anyone? How about the fall of the Soviet empire and the re-emergence of entire countries?

Look, common sense people. We’re all here now. Let’s strike a balance. 400 people shouldn’t be dictating policy on 77,000. Federally the tail should not be wagging the dog.

I’m personally fed up with all the garbage of thanking the local FN for allowing us to live here every time there is a public event. Flags being raised. Parks being renamed to favour one culture over another with white guilt revisionist policy. Entire massive swaths of land being deeded over to a couple hundred people up in the north west. Overlapping land claims. Treaty negotiations going back a hundred years. Giving ownership of natural resources to a few hundred people. National energy and transportation investments held up by same. Sometimes bogus “sacred” land claims holding up development.

I’m not being racist. Just common sense.

There are many cultures that built the country we live in. There is a massive asian population down south who’s ancestors worked sometimes to death helping build the lower mainland, railroads, highways. I bet there are more south asians here in Prince George than FN.

Europeans that immigrated here over the past few hundred years and with their sophisticated education systems, health care, law, sciences etc and built the moderns wonders we all take for granted today.

I say celebrate each and every culture, but do not let one stand above the rest. Right now out country is twisting itself up trying to feel good about itself pandering to 4.3% of the population. How about all the others?

Why not have a flagpole in front of city hall for every culture that helped build Canada? Soon it would look like the United Nations building!

Hence I circle back to common sense.

We are Canada. This is the country we live in. Establish an official language. Recognize it federally, provincially, at the municipal level.

Let all the cultures celebrate their own way, encourage it and embrace it as the fabric of our nation.

But stop favouring one group over the other.

And stop making public policy with emotional decisions.

Did you notice how the contributing author stuck his finger into the air and decided against airing his concerns? Mainly because we have labelled plenty of streets, parks and buildings after prominent progressives of past eras and he is queasy about sweeping their contributions into the dustbin of history.
Another cowardly move was not citing this site’s policy on commenting on articles relating to this name change. He referenced a Facebook page, of all things, with NO moderation. The moderation on this site is stringent, as is their right, yet a few of us were able to formulate posts that voiced opposition to this process without upsetting the moderator too much. That doesn’t lessen the childish from labelling ANYBODY who offers a modicum of dissent a racist or bigoted. How is that we can post material that is acceptable to the moderator, but earns a racist moniker in doing so? Crickets. I notice I was referenced plenty, but quoted and refuted not at all.

Bravo BCGrog! Bravo! I agree completely. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Wow. Well said, BCGrog! Very well put, and I completely agree.

I’m sure some people’s views are racial in nature, however, others are just wanting total equality. That means equality for all, not having the rights of one group favoured above the rights of another due to the fact that they are a minority.

Thank you for putting it so well.

BCGrog,
You summed up how the majority of us in the wings are thinking!!!

4.3 % of the population.. But what is the true number.. Metis is a mixed race, so not native.. They keep changing what makes you native.. Way back when it was 1/4 blood did..then 1/8. Now it’s 1/16..

I am Canadian. Born and raised here.. I am a combination of different heritages..but I am Canadian and proud to be.

Ditto BCGrog. And I would add – at the risk of being a racist, but FN as percentage of the population is growing faster than any other group. So, if a group who has low participation rates in the work force but high tax consumption, continues to grow as a percentage of the population, at some point in time those working, will be handing ever increasing percentages of their income to those who are working – but don’t have to pay tax on their earnings, and those who can’t/don’t work, until, the system will collapse of it’s own weight.

Now, for the record, I am well aware many FN people work off reserve, they pay their taxes, and to add insult to injury, have to endure the slurs brought on by the resentment felt towards those FN who chose not to work, or work tax free – they are simply in the same boat as the rest of us.

I liken Canada to a lifeboat with some leaks in it. It wasn’t so bad when there was just a few leaks, and everyone except for a few, would bail water. But there are becoming more and more leaks, and fewer people willing to bail – and the irony is, those who don’t bail, die along with the rest of us.

agree very well said BCGrog . this business of giving exclusive recognition to the Indians is only creating more negativity toward them not improving relations with the rest of the population . the handing over of the Caine Cr. forest rec. site (and others) to the natives for their exclusive use is another example . public lands in Canada are for all Canadians to use and enjoy .

–> BCGrog: You acknowledge that “horrible things were done to these people by our ancestors” but now you want to “stop favouring one group over the other” without redress to correct the centuries of Canadian society favouring EVERY other group over First Nations. (I know this because my black grandfather had all sorts of advantages over First Nations people in the very racist Toronto of 1912.) Whether you want to call yourself racist or not, the impulse to evade the responsibility to redress past racism IS racist. I will leave it to you to decide where you stand.

BCGrog for Mayer of Prince George

Hell

BCGrog for Prime Minister of Canada

It’s not just the name change of a Park, its the way it was done if you were on Council and voted the other way you could be called names ,who wants that stress. We have to get past this , there are so many other things to worry about ,like JOBS for people. Get the City moving ,stop bringing in the NO income people from all over Canada and focusing on housing for them. Our Downtown has been destroyed. The Needle Exchange needs to be moved along with the Fire Pit, take a drive down to 3rd and George and you will know why I suggest this and do not move the problem into Residential like they did the Hookers.

Political correctness has morphed into Instant Outrage. As soon as a “buzzword” is heard or read without even trying to understand the context in which it was said the “ist” words start flying as in racist-sexist-or masogynist. I read an article the other day that compares this PC 2.0 to something akin to Orwell “group speak” narrowing what can be said in a discussion without being labeled an “ist”.

Even some of today’s top comedians are removing material from their acts because of PC 2.0 They would sooner ditch the jokes rather than have to explain to these shallow thinking narrow minded individuals why there nothing offensive in the remark. Could you imagine Pryor, Carlin or Kinison trying to start a career today and Don Rickles would be tossed on his ear within a minute.

Walking into a church and killing 9 people simply because of their skin color is racist, disagreeing on changing names of a park is not especially in the manner in which it was done.

Constraining what can be said in an open and frank discussion is the same as removing spice and color from ones life making it a far less interesting place…..Orwellian indeed.

It’s just a name.
The good thing about all the commotion is, some people have actually learned a little bit about PG history. Something people seriously lack in BC is knowledge of its history. Perhaps the education system needs to take note and let BCers learn about the early days of the province.

I did not put anyone in a residential school, the government of the day did that.

I did not abuse any person or group.

I did not steal any one’s land, I was born in this country at least third generation.

I have no other country to call home because I was born here.

Why do I have to pay for the sins of governments and churches’ abuse of power?

When are we going to move forward instead of constantly rehashing the past.

Residential schools were a nasty smear on Canada with the last one closing in 1996. Assuming a person was 18 at grade 12, they would be a maximum 48, and if not in a higher grade then they would a minimum of 38. That was 20 years ago, man.

In no way am I suggesting that this or any other actions taken against any group be forgotten, but I want to move forward with a unified future of prosperity and peace. How can this happen if we keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

As a few other commenters have indicated, we need to work together for the common good, leave true history for the history books so that we all may learn from it and not repeat it.

Yes a lot of people had strong views about the name change and the way it was passed. The attitude of city council “of don’t care what you think” is very offensive. Our opinions don’t count with that type of attitude. We really have to keep a close eye on this mayor and council.

PVal the census numbers are all available at statistics canada . The 2011 census has FN at 1,400,445 . Metis at 451,795 . Inuit at 59,445 . Those are the real numbers . Maybe you can see how absolutely disgusting it is that the Inuit are living with starvation levels that are causing undersized children with rickets , today . Living under the harper government is really bad for your health . Specially if one is Inuit , native or Metis . Let’s hope they all come out and vote this next cycle .

Why the articles on this now? Just to create hits? Somebody should drop a line to the CBC/BC and let them know the real story in Prince George is how many racist we have. Maybe ask them to call up Bill Phillips and have him share his knowledge of how racist and bigoted the response has been. You know, it only takes ONE sound bite from some looney progressive, informing all who will listen that THEY and they alone have shouldered the responsibility of looking after their aboriginals, and them we will all be tarred with that brush.

CBC/bc ? Are you kidding ? This has gone global .

Well stated BCGorg. Just because I am not very educated (grade 12) and may not command the English language as well as others it does not make me “a racists and bigot”. When people ask what nationality I am, I do not say German but rather a third generation Canadian and proud of it. I am entitled to my opinions. Thank God for the people who fought and died to protect that right, people of all race and cultures.
we all need to contribute to this country, province, and city to make life better. Lets not separate people by feeling sorry for one group or another over someone else.
The main reason I opposed the idea of changing the park name was because I can not see what the band has done to improve my life or community. Please someone tell me what the main contribution the band has done. I want to understand.

Ataloss. Your so predictable. So once again we will blame Harper. Whats new???

BCGrog & Loki,

Thank you.

This has gone global?? Our Downtown has been destroyed and now our City is being destroyed ,over what a name change of a Park.We need to get on with what is happening TODAY.

I new it, problem solved, its all Harper’s fault, what is he at least 3 hundred years old. I wondered how long it would take Harper’s name to come up and the source did not disappoint.

Palopu . You are so predictable . When Stevie rebranded the Canadian government , the harper government , there is no one else to blame . If we still had a Canadian government I would blame it instead . You don’t seem the understand how it works . My guess is you have never worked with a crew under a command structure . You see the person in command also bears responsibility for all members of the crew . And there by Steve is directly responsible for everything directly in his charge such as starving Inuit children scavenging in northern dumps to survive . Hence my revulsion. He deserves the boot .

bitter – it’s not so much the name change, as how it was done. Fast, no consultation, no attempt to bring people on board. Would’ve been a completely different outcome if they started with a process to explain why they wanted to do it, let people have their say, try to make them understand, and then ram it down their throats.

What a cop out Ataloss. There is nothing in this world that is stopping you from using the phrase the Canadian Government, or Canadian Governments. You chose to use the term Harper Government because it works well with the message that you want to convey, which is vote against Harper. This is merely a mind game on your part, that is thinly veiled and obvious.

That’s disingenuous Palopu . You know darn well it was not I that rebranded the government of Canada . It was your dear leader that did that .

I am at a loss as to why anyone would engage her in any discussion. She isn’t insightful, nor entertaining. Just another hateful, uneducated progressive, without anything but an incomplete, outdated copy of talking points to rehash.
Park renamed…(yawn). It won’t take. Very few people will be bothered to learn how to pronounce it. You wanna know why? Because pronouncing it wrong will earn you derision from all those who think they are better.
In every conversation where it may come up, the conversation will go along the lines of: “…I’ll meet you at Lat..no..leht..no aww to heck with it..Fort George Park”

CBC/bc ? Are you kidding ? This has gone global .

=========================

A park was renamed in a city of 75,000 in northern BC. It hasnt gone global, it hasn’t gone national and with the exception of news junkies who spend their life on the Internet, it hasn’t even gone provincial. Within a month it won’t even be news in PG.

it is sad because the potential was there for so much more had the city put some extended thought into what they were doing.

Ataloss, your posts are stunning in their stupidity. It’s incredulous that someone can be so profoundly daft on so many levels.

I have a couple of comments…

First, to all of you complaining about the lack of public consultation, you elect mayor and council to make decisions. Consulting the public on every decision is not efficient. Do you want an efficient government?

Second, how is renaming a park favoring one culture over another? It’s a name! White culture is EVERYWHERE in this city; I do not see FN culture represented with anywhere near the same intensity.

Lastly, it was not our ancestors who bullied and oppressed the FN, it was our parents. Residential schools existed right up to the 80s. We are not discussing the distant past when we discuss the despicable actions we took against the FN. Educate yourself.

Have you not seen the remnants of the 2015 winter games?

Dow if you truely believe that . Then you are even dumber than am I for reading my posts . Generally I don’t read what you write because it’s just dribble about some one else . You don’t seem to know very much . Dow by name but not by nature . I’m up again today but the Dow I play with has real numbers on it. You not so much .

I’ve been breathing air on this planet for half a century, and not once have I ever worried about the history of the park’s name. Nor will I worry about what it’s called today, or tomorrow. Who cares? It’s a nice place to hang out during the sunny summer days, and to avoid at all costs during the nights. Nothing has changed. Mother Earth still spins on her axis, as she sprints around the sun.

Let me know when something actually important happens, such as some developer ever suggesting housing to built in the park. Now that would be something to get upset about.

I’ve forgotten more than you know ataloss. A wise man once said ‘don’t confuse brains with a bull market’. You are certainly confused.

Holy smoke BCGrog! Well put. Hear! Hear! I couldn’t have said it better.

Well said BCGrog! I wish the Citizen would print your piece as it encompasses how a large majority of the population feels about the subject.

That’s funny Dow . You don’t know anything about tax law . You didn’t know that some of us clued in seniors have been income splitting for years and that family splitting is here well before royal assent of the new tax law . You also know little about civility . Btw the Nasdaq just made an all time high . Thank you Obama . You are the best prez ever . Ain’t that Dow guy funny as heck . Smartest guy in his room .

Meanwhile in today’s paper – I find this. Someone didn’t get the memo.

The club is tossing aside the stopwatches in hopes of more pedal power and fun in its first Gran Tour of Prince George, set to roll out of “Fort George Park” at 10 a.m. on Sunday.

Just as a point of interest, Louis Riel was a victim of a residential school in Montreal, in 1858 at the age of 14 . He got an excellent education. He went on to become an influential Metis before he killed Thomas Scoot and fled to the states. He later returned to get involved in provision government. He was then involved in the Battle of Batoche and was charged and convicted for treason and ultimately hanged. My point is, great men have come out of residential schools so obviously they did good for those who wanted to aspire.

Palopu wrote: “Fort George was established in 1807 and this is the history that we need to focus on. From 1807 to 1892 we have 85 years of history of both the FN (Carrier) Lheidli T’enneh and whites living an working together.”

There was no Fort. It was a trading post. The trading post was non-functional for several decades until the North West Fur Trading Company territory was taken over by the Hudson Bay Company.

The only reason Simon Fraser was here was because he wanted to find the mouth of the Columbia from upriver. Well, he screwed up and discovered a smaller river now named after him. The mouth of the Columbia was likely discovered by Juan de Fuca in 1592. Heceta, in 1775, properly mapped the entrance. Overlanders later followed the river from inland.

Bob Campbell, the curator at the Museum has some excellent knowledge of the time span when the local trading post was active and may actually have some knowledge or opinion about when the “Indian village” was built and where the non-aboriginal inhabitants and users of the area were buried at that time.

We do not use our resident experts such as him, such as UNBC, such as may even be on the Heritage Commission. In fact, in my opinion, such people get a “slap in the face” when it comes to bringing this kind of initiative forward.
————————-

Jimmy Hughes writes: “we have labelled plenty of streets, parks and buildings after prominent progressives of past eras” …..

I love that statement. One has to be very careful, especially with Facebook type of social media around because what may be considered as progressives by some could simply turn out to be “fadists”. Generally the passage of time will pick up the difference between the two.
———————————————

peterthompson wrote: “the impulse to evade the responsibility to redress past racism IS racist..” … re-naming a park is analogous to giving glass beads in return for a pelt. They had plenty of pelts and we had plenty of glass beads.

So now we are exchanging redressing past racism for names. We have plenty of places we can rename. Does not cost us a thing. Want to really redress past racism? Give them the places we are ready to rename and see who of the non-aboriginals will accept that. We need to go to court for that.

We have already named the land that we stole “Canada” and “Ontario” and “Manitoba” and “Saskatchewan” and “Quebec” and “Nunavut” and “Mississauga” and “Coquitlam”. We could fill a whole telephone book with FN names.

I am surprised that naming rights can be sold that cheaply. We are giving them beads when we should be giving them pelts back for past unfair trade practices.
———————————————-

NMG wrote: “it is sad because the potential was there for so much more had the city put some extended thought into what they were doing.”

Bang on. And that is exactly why Albert Koehler voted against it. But, not coming from a country that understands collective guilt the way he would, it is difficult for the rest of Council to even get it. If one wants to address collective guilt, place naming is not the way to start.

Just think of the collective guilt Asia must have for sending the aboriginals fleeing their birthplace and wandering over an ice bridge formed connecting Asia with the Americas.

Flogging a dead horse…

gopg2015 wrote: “We are giving them beads when we should be giving them pelts back for past unfair trade practices.”

I agree wholeheartedly. Renaming places does very little to redress racism. When we start to do more substantive things (e.g. court rulings that recognize their right to meaningful consultation around resource development on their traditional lands) the howls of outrage from the usual suspects are even louder.

Flogging a dead horse… it does not hurt the horse anymore but lets out frustration …..

But it does say something to me about those who think flogging a live horse is acceptable ….

Thanks for the clarification gopg2015. It has always been referred to as Fort George, so one would assume that there was a Fort there. In any event we do have a lot of history between 1807 and 1892. 85 years when people were living in this area both white and native side by side.

The bottom line is that the area has some historical significance other than just the FN aspect.

That’s why I thought that the name Lheidli T’enneh/Fort George Park would satisfy both groups.

We should keep in mind that the Natives in BC had **Blood Feuds** where the different tribes fought with each other and basically killed men, women and children. This went on for many years through out their history. Furthermore some Interior tribes, and the Coast Indians had slaves who had no rights what so ever.

Is it possible that the surviving families of these slaves (if there are any) can approach the FN for redress??

Might not be the popular thing to do, in some circles, but I agree with BCGrog. Well said, and I too think it reflects the view of a large number of people, of all races and creed.

And Palopu’s idea for a revised name is what I thought too, except I thought it should be: Fort George-Lheidli Tenneh Park.
;)
metalman.

stockaloss, I hope you are long big.

“In January 2009, the Hon Pita Sharples, Minister of Māori Affairs, publicly called for a Māori flag to be flown from the Auckland Harbour Bridge on Waitangi Day. He thought that flying a Māori flag at sites of national significance would reflect and enhance Crown-Māori relationships. The Rt Hon John Key, Prime Minister, answered that call, saying he would support flying the two flags together if agreement could be reached on a preferred flag.”

Good on you New Zealand for doing something to reflect and enhance Crown – Maori relationships. In the end, isn’t relationship building what this should be all about?

www. mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-heritage/flags/national-m%C4%81ori-flag